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ColtsFan76
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February 2006
Forces of Evil too overwhelming? Sun, 12 March 2006 15:03
I got this game a week ago and we have played two games so far. Since there was only two of us, we each took two knights and left the loyalty cards out. It just seems this game is overwhelmingly in favor af the forces of evil and the entire game is played with this sense of dread the whole time. I love the concept but you always seem to be just barely keeping your nose above water. We won the first game by getting 7 of the 12 swords to end the game. But last night's game destroyed us when an unexpected Pict victory placed the last 2 seige engines to destroy Camelot. At that point we had accumulated 9 White swords and no Black ones (well, weplaced the seige engines first to end the game so I guess we should have had the black sword from that quest). It just seems too daunting to keep up with.

Obviously you all like the game or you wouldn't be here, but what can i expect? Will this game get better with more time in it? Does more players help out (I saw an unaswered thread asking for the ideal number for a more balanced game - do we need all 7 players?)? How bad will it be when we get around to inserting the traitor into the mix?

I think we have a fairly good grasp of the Quests. We were working our special abilities pretty hard last night. We tried to manage the forces of Evil by sacrificing life points. But the "pick your poison" was just too much - we got hit every which way! Thoughts? Or should I just vent on my own? lol Confused
      
Nordiskanc
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Cadet

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December 2004
Re:Forces of Evil too overwhelming? Sun, 12 March 2006 16:14
Welcome to the community, the first 4-5 games will be a challenge, by the time you are on your 8th game it will be extremely easy. Nearly every game my group plays now, good always wins. I'd say 90%+, we are now using ways to make the game harder. Otherwords, just bide your time and it will be easy.
      
Luke the Flaming
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Posts: 270
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July 2003
Re:Forces of Evil too overwhelming? Mon, 13 March 2006 03:56
Practice will help you a lot.
Once you'll find it too easy, go for the variants ("squires", less starting life/cards, etc.).

Of course, to REALLY taste the subtle psychological aspect of the game, you'll need to find a few other players and use the Loyalty cards. Wink
      
GreatDane
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June 2004
Re:Forces of Evil too overwhelming? Mon, 13 March 2006 07:16
If the game was too easy would we all get bored with it very quickly. The excitement comes from the fact that even the best players can lose the game - and obviously this means that poor players will lose the game more often. Just keep playing, and learn by your mistakes!
      
Sagrilarus
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First Lieutenant

Posts: 43
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January 2005
Re:Forces of Evil too overwhelming? Mon, 13 March 2006 21:20
My group has played about eight games now, and we finally won one with four players. There was no traitor that time.

In general, a traitor means we're going to lose. The traitor doesn't even have to work that hard. Some things we've found (note, since I have about as much experience as you I'm not going to consider these spoilers. But if you don't want any information at all on strategy, stop reading here) --

1. Black swords aren't necessarily bad, as long as you don't have too many. You need to get 12 total swords to end the game or the siege engines will eat you. So you need to be willing to "lose" a few quests to win the game.

2. More players make it easier, because each life point played is a free heroic action (no bad action associated). Seven players get 21 of these without someone dying. If you only have two people, play three characters each. When you get close, dying for your King is a very viable option.

3. When in doubt, trust the other player. We've lost a couple of games by accusing ourselves to death. One of our players is a bit of a dingbat and always is accused of being a traitor whether he is or not.


We're finding it remarkable just how well balanced the game is. In spite of a tremendous opportunity for luck, the ability to win really rests right on a knife-edge. It's always in reach but so hard to get into the boat. Just a well designed, well tested game. Best entertainment money I've spent in a while.

Sag.
      
ColtsFan76
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February 2006
Re:Forces of Evil too overwhelming? Mon, 13 March 2006 22:51
GreatDane wrote on Mon, 13 March 2006 00:16

If the game was too easy would we all get bored with it very quickly. The excitement comes from the fact that even the best players can lose the game - and obviously this means that poor players will lose the game more often. Just keep playing, and learn by your mistakes!

Fully understood. I am not saying it should be an easy game it just has seemed overwhelming against us so far. It just seems the whole game I will like an underdog and when we do win a quest, there is little joy because we have the next quest that Evil is owning.

The good thing is my friend loves the game. And she's used to me kicking her butt in Memoir '44 so losing is more comfortable to her! We have a big church trip this summer and I would like to bring this along and get a full 7 players, but I am afraid they will be quickly soured if they see it in the same light as me. I have 2 months to figure it out I guess.

Sagrilarus wrote on Mon, 13 March 2006 14:20



1. Black swords aren't necessarily bad, as long as you don't have too many. You need to get 12 total swords to end the game or the siege engines will eat you. So you need to be willing to "lose" a few quests to win the game.

Yes. We figured this out halfway through the first game. Once we reach 7 whites, we realize black swords help just as much to ending the game.

Quote:

2. More players make it easier, because each life point played is a free heroic action (no bad action associated). Seven players get 21 of these without someone dying. If you only have two people, play three characters each. When you get close, dying for your King is a very viable option.

My math was off on that. I assumed more players would probably be better with more abilities in play but was just seeing that more players also caused more Evil actions. But with the life points, each additional player would buy you 3 "free" Heroic actions before making the fatal decision. So 7 players is probably the best and is balanced by increasing the chances of one of them being the traitor.

Quote:

3. When in doubt, trust the other player. We've lost a couple of games by accusing ourselves to death. One of our players is a bit of a dingbat and always is accused of being a traitor whether he is or not.

So far, this hasn't been a problem. Like I said, we worked every angle that we had - accept dying - pretty hard. In fact, we had a slight advantage controling 2 characters each because we each knew what cards our two chracters had. Though we tried not to "cheat" this way, it does give you a slight advantage knowing how to manage two characters more effectively. But this just added to my sense of dread knowing this slight edge would be eliminated in a "real" game.
      
    
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