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infocynic
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March 2005
Clairvoyance + Lancelot's Armor Thu, 17 November 2005 19:59
Using the exact English wording of these:

Lance's Armor: "Anytime you must draw 1 black card, draw 2 instead. Play 1, and put the other back under the Black Draw pile."

Clairvoyance: "Draw the top 5 cards from the Black Draw pile..." (ok, that might not be exact but I don't have the game in front of me).

Can I draw the top 10 (=5*2) and put 5 back on top and 5 on bottom? I assume NOT, and we've never allowed it, but we always joke about it... (note that a traitor w/LA and Clairv would be lethal Twisted Evil )
      
Nordiskanc
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Cadet

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December 2004
Re:Clairvoyance + Lancelot's Armor Thu, 17 November 2005 20:20
With clairvonce you pick 5 and rearrange them. If you have Lancelot, depending on the # playing and traitor you can estimate which/when cards will be drawn so that he/she that has Lancelot armor can avoid (put on the bottom of the deck) the worst of the 5 drawn.
      
infocynic
Junior Member

Posts: 18
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March 2005
Re:Clairvoyance + Lancelot's Armor Tue, 22 November 2005 19:33
Nordiskanc wrote on Thu, 17 November 2005 14:20

With clairvonce you pick 5 and rearrange them. If you have Lancelot, depending on the # playing and traitor you can estimate which/when cards will be drawn so that he/she that has Lancelot armor can avoid (put on the bottom of the deck) the worst of the 5 drawn.


The question I'm raising involves if YOU have Lancelot's Armor AND play Clairvoyance. Since you're drawing 5 cards and the text for LA says "whenever you must draw a black card, instead draw 2..."...

I am aware that you could use CV to stack the deck so another knight wearing the armor could toss the worst card away, but that's not what I'm asking about. Smile
      
AK_Aramis
Senior Member

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January 2006
Re:Clairvoyance + Lancelot's Armor Thu, 26 January 2006 04:58
I'd say no, you can't draw the extras... simply because they are not coming to hand... they are just being examined and reordered.
      
atefec
Senior Member

Posts: 318
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August 2005
Re:Clairvoyance + Lancelot's Armor Thu, 26 January 2006 10:27
AK_Aramis schrieb am Thu, 26 January 2006 04:58

I'd say no, you can't draw the extras... simply because they are not coming to hand... they are just being examined and reordered.

Thumbs Up Good explanation, I would agree to this. The german translation is a little bit clearer about that point. For "Clairvoyance" is explained in the quest book that you may "look at" (not "draw") the first 5 black cards from the black draw pile. So the conclusion is that Lancelot's armor does not work here.
      
Chicken Master
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August 2004
Re:Clairvoyance + Lancelot's Armor Sat, 11 March 2006 16:04
But Percival can also "look at" the first black card each turn, and in that case if he has the armor he can look at two cards and put one at the bottom of the deck (it says so in the rules)... so I would say you can draw 10 cards and put 5 back at the bottom.
      
atefec
Senior Member

Posts: 318
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August 2005
Re:Clairvoyance + Lancelot's Armor Tue, 14 March 2006 08:48
Chicken Master schrieb am Sat, 11 March 2006 16:04

... so I would say you can draw 10 cards and put 5 back at the bottom.

I don't believe that this is the correct interpretation of the rules. But if your group likes to play it that way, you are free to do so. I discussed this point in my group this weekend and no one liked the idea to put five black cards under the black draw pile. In our opinion Lancelot's Armor is not supposed to be that powerful and this would be a great disadvantage for the traitor - respectively a too big advantage, if the traitor owns the armor!

We even think - and that's the way we play it - that Lancelot's Armor can only be used while the Progression of Evil phase. In this interpretation it is obvious, that Clairvoyance can't be combined with Lancelot's Armor.

Unfortunately the rules aren't 100 % clear about that and so this question can't be answered doubtless, as long as we are missing an official statement. So be free to play it the way you like to! Just make sure that everybody in your group knows how to deal with this situation before you start to play!
Wink

[Updated on: Tue, 14 March 2006 08:55]

      
Sagrilarus
Member
First Lieutenant

Posts: 43
Registered:
January 2005
Re:Clairvoyance + Lancelot's Armor Tue, 14 March 2006 16:35
Lancelot's armor comes into play during the progression of evil phase, when you must draw a black card.

Clairvoyance comes into play during the heroic action phase, after the progression of evil phase is complete. You are choosing to draw and look at black cards, not forced to.

So your card draws remain separate and don't multiply. It would, however, be a very smart strategy to have the player prior to Lancelot's armor play the clairvoyance card and place the nastiest card on top so that the next player could move it to the bottom of the stack.

Sag.
      
atefec
Senior Member

Posts: 318
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August 2005
Re:Clairvoyance + Lancelot's Armor Wed, 15 March 2006 08:23
Sagrilarus schrieb am Tue, 14 March 2006 16:35

Lancelot's armor comes into play during the progression of evil phase, when you must draw a black card.
Clairvoyance comes into play during the heroic action phase, after the progression of evil phase is complete. You are choosing to draw and look at black cards, not forced to.

Thanks, Sag, using Lancelot's Armor only during the Progression of Evil phase is in fact the way we play it and which should - in our opinion - correspond to the rules. I'm just a little bit disappointed that there is no clear confirmation about this point, neither in the rules or quest book nor in the FAQ.

Chicken Master asked the question about combining the Clairvoyance card and Lancelot's Armor in the French forum (http://www.daysofwonder.com/index.php?t=msg&th=4455& start=0&rid=137183&S=e08fe090d7af9c76cffa63a86574844 9). With a little luck Bruno or Serge will see it and we get a firsthand answer.
Smile

[Updated on: Wed, 15 March 2006 08:32]

      
    
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