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Myxlstyx
Junior Member

Posts: 27
Registered:
March 2006
Excalibur Question Sun, 02 April 2006 19:24
Now I haven't found anything in the rulebook or FAQ about this.

Excalibur can be used to counter a black card just drawn.

The book of quests says that excalibur is used before the consquences happen.

When my play group draws black cards... if it's a black knight or lancelot/dragon, we just place the card on the table, if face down we draw a white card. Now looking at the rules, I read that the card must be read aloud and then the effects take place. Is placing a black knight on the table a consequence? or is resolving the quest a consequence? (I know, it's all rules lawyer-ing, but it just came to mind)

I'm just curious as to the proper progression

1. Draw, say "Black Knight" - Use Excalibur
2. Draw, say "Black Knight", place it on the table, - Use Excalibur

If 2 is correct, and the card is placed face down... would the player still get to draw a white card?

I just say this - because our play group never really "reads the card aloud"

A secondary question as to the Read aloud thing (and probably the more relevant one) - Does the Traitor have to read a Mercenaries card aloud? I would think that if he wanted to speed the Picts along.. He could look at his card and say, "Add a Pict to the board, please" - or would he have to say "Mercenaries - add a pict".. cause then people would be mighty suspicious of someone adding a Pict when the saxons would be a better choice.
      
GreatDane
Senior Member

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June 2004
Re:Excalibur Question Mon, 03 April 2006 07:31
Example 1) is correct. You must apply the effect of Excalibur before the card is actually played.

And you are correct in not reading the text out loud. You simply announce that "the Black Knight regaining more strength than ever." "His mighty lance is looking more menacing than ever." or whatever you fancy to spice up the game. You cannot reveal the true value of the card until you actually play it - and even then may you place it face down with a remark like "trust me he is deadly." or "not to worry. He has it all in his mouth."

Mercenaries. I would say that eventually must the player who drew the card take a decision of whether to add a Pict or a Saxon - and at that very moment can a player holding Excalibur decide to cancel the card.

The Traitor would not have to tell that the card is "Mercenaries", he may simply say "Uh-oh. We need all the luck we can get know, lads. The Picts are storming downhill, and it looks like we're outnumbered unless Sir Galahad comes to our rescue!"

[Updated on: Tue, 04 April 2006 12:10]

      
atefec
Senior Member

Posts: 318
Registered:
August 2005
Re:Excalibur Question Mon, 03 April 2006 08:16
Hi Myxlstyx,

you already found the appropriate passage in the rules: "When you choose to draw a Black card, pick the top card on the Black draw pile, read it aloud, and apply its effect."
And Excalibur: "Excalibur is the only way to prevent a Standard Black card from coming into play at the time it is drawn."

I think it's quite clear. If you want to sacrifice Excalibur, you have to do that before the Standard Black card comes into play. Once you placed the card face down on the quest it is in play and it's too late to use Excalibur. If it was the fourth black card, the tournament ends immediately and you have to determine, whether the quest was won or lost.
So variant 1 is the correct one: Draw, say "Black Knight" - Use Excalibur - and don't draw a white card.

That's the reason why the rules say you should read the Black card aloud - just because the knights can discuss whether to sacrifice Excalibur (if it is a Standard Black card) or to call Merlin three times (if it is a Special Black card). And remember: Just read the text on the Black card, but you must never reveal the explicit value of the card!

Quote:

I just say this - because our play group never really "reads the card aloud"


It's your house rule - you are free to play it the way you prefer. I would suggest trying the official way in your next game. If you don't like it you can return to your house rule in the next game.


Your second question... Yes, the traitor has to read the Mercenaries card aloud. The rules say it is permissible to lie about your intent of your resources at hand - but the rules don't allow to lie about the content of the actually drawn Black card. Therefore the traitor has to be carefully not to betray himself at this point.
Anyway I think the traitor has better opportunities to sow the seeds of evil secretly Smile

Have fun!

atefec



Edit: GreatDane has been quicker... Wink

[Updated on: Mon, 03 April 2006 08:17]

      
atefec
Senior Member

Posts: 318
Registered:
August 2005
Re:Excalibur Question Mon, 03 April 2006 08:25
GreatDane schrieb am Mon, 03 April 2006 07:31

And you are correct in not reading the text out loud. You simply announce that "the Black Knight regaining more strength than ever." "His mighty lance is looking more menacing than ever." or whatever you fancy to spice up the game. You cannot reveal the true value of the card until you actually play it - and even then may you place it face down with a remark like "trust me he is daely." or "not to worry. He has it all in his mouth."

True! So let's specify it: You have to read the text on the Black card aloud (e.g. "Black Knight" or "Mercenaries"), because that's just what the rules tell you to do. But you must not reveal or paraphrase the value of a black combat card. So don't say "It's a Black Knight five" or "It's the most powerful Black Knight" Wink

[Updated on: Mon, 03 April 2006 08:36]

      
Myxlstyx
Junior Member

Posts: 27
Registered:
March 2006
Re:Excalibur Question Thu, 13 April 2006 00:42
From the FAQ:

Quote:

If the Morgan card initially drawn was not countered, then the effects of the following 3 Black cards drawn as a result MUST be played out sequentially, without any possibility to counter them. If a Special Black is part of that mix, it cannot be countered then!



Does this mean that excalibur can't counter the 3 drawn cards either? I assume that excalibur has to cancel the morgan and cannot be used on the 3 cards. Thoughts?
      
atefec
Senior Member

Posts: 318
Registered:
August 2005
Re:Excalibur Question Thu, 13 April 2006 07:48
Myxlstyx schrieb am Thu, 13 April 2006 00:42

From the FAQ:
Quote:

If the Morgan card initially drawn was not countered, then the effects of the following 3 Black cards drawn as a result MUST be played out sequentially, without any possibility to counter them. If a Special Black is part of that mix, it cannot be countered then!

Does this mean that excalibur can't counter the 3 drawn cards either? I assume that excalibur has to cancel the morgan and cannot be used on the 3 cards. Thoughts?


Correct! Once you decide not to use three Merlins to cancel Morgan (or if there are not enough Merlin cards around) the next three Black cards have to been drawn. There is no possibility to counter them, even Excalibur can't help you.
      
MaddinBerlin
Junior Member

Posts: 2
Registered:
April 2006
Re:Excalibur Question Tue, 18 April 2006 20:01
If I understood it right in the instruction, you only have to read black special cards aloud. So you don´t even have to tell that you have drawn "mercenaries", or am I wrong?
      
atefec
Senior Member

Posts: 318
Registered:
August 2005
Re:Excalibur Question Wed, 19 April 2006 07:10
Hi MaddinBerlin,

just take a look at the top of page 10 in the rules book... Progression of Evil... Drawing a Black card...
"If you choose to draw a Black card, pick the top card on the Black draw pile, read it aloud, and apply its effect." (It's also on page 10 in the German rules book)

So the rules tell you to read any drawn black card aloud, no matter whether it is a standard or a special black card. Of course: If you draw a black fight card and decide to play it face down (in order to get a white card) you must not reveal it's value.

Have fun! Smile
atefec
      
MaddinBerlin
Junior Member

Posts: 2
Registered:
April 2006
Re:Excalibur Question Wed, 19 April 2006 19:21
Hi atefec!
Okay, you´re right.

But wouldn´t it make sense in case of the mercenaries not to read the text? If he says that it´s a mercenary, the traitor could never use this card to hurt the knights.
      
Luke the Flaming
Senior Member

Posts: 270
Registered:
July 2003
Re:Excalibur Question Thu, 20 April 2006 01:54
MaddinBerlin wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 19:21

But wouldn´t it make sense in case of the mercenaries not to read the text? If he says that it´s a mercenary, the traitor could never use this card to hurt the knights.


Indeed he can't, but that's hardly a problem... Wink
      
atefec
Senior Member

Posts: 318
Registered:
August 2005
Re:Excalibur Question Thu, 20 April 2006 07:57
MaddinBerlin schrieb am Wed, 19 April 2006 19:21

Hi atefec!
Okay, you're right.
But wouldn't it make sense in case of the mercenaries not to read the text? If he says that it's a mercenary, the traitor could never use this card to hurt the knights.


When our group plays with a traitor, the knights loose 4 of 5 games. So I think there is no need for an unrevealed traitor to hurt the other knights directly. The traitor only has to play ineffectively and to retain important white cards. That's almost enough to win most of the games against the knights.
Anyway in my opinion this is the best way to play the role of the traitor and it's the best to have a nice time as traitor. Wink

[Updated on: Thu, 20 April 2006 09:47]

      
sherck
Junior Member
Cadet

Posts: 1
Registered:
January 2005
Re:Excalibur Question Fri, 21 April 2006 16:07
atefec wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 01:57



When our group plays with a traitor, the knights loose 4 of 5 games.


Totally agree.

I a shocked so many people think SoC is easy because when we play with a traitor, the knights almost always get their butts kicked.

Thad
      
Sagrilarus
Member
First Lieutenant

Posts: 43
Registered:
January 2005
Re:Excalibur Question Mon, 24 April 2006 02:54
I also agree on the stats -- we find it darn near impossible to win when there is a traitor in the group. Typically we have four or five players, and the traitor can throw the wrench in it with very little effort.

Sag.
      
atefec
Senior Member

Posts: 318
Registered:
August 2005
Re:Excalibur Question Mon, 24 April 2006 07:11
Sagrilarus schrieb am Mon, 24 April 2006 02:54

I also agree on the stats -- we find it darn near impossible to win when there is a traitor in the group. Typically we have four or five players, and the traitor can throw the wrench in it with very little effort.

Sag.


And that's one of the best things of SoC: The game is such amusing, that loosing is nearly irrelevant! I love the discussions after a lost game, what could have been played better and how the traitor's cover could have been blowed Very Happy
Ok, I even love them more, when I have been the unrevealed traitor Twisted Evil
      
    
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