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gf_ripper
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Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Wed, 19 October 2005 09:45
I just wondering if there were any expansions planned? Like new cards to add to the cards already there, new quest extra? I was wondering why the coat of arms didn't come with the the knights in the new minitires release, because if we print out the coat of arms from the pdf, it will be a bit obvious who the one odd ball card belongs to almost preventing a random picking of characters.
      
darlok21
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Thu, 20 October 2005 17:28
hi,

while, i don't know about the expansions, there was some hints in this forum alluding to the possibility of an expansion, some of the speculation revolving around fighting the traitor knight...which i think could be really fun.

As for the lack of the bedivere coat of arms, what you can do is put the knight figures themselves in a sack and have players pick them randomly, or if you fear that people will try to 'feel' for the knight they want, u could do the same with the different color dice(assuming u have one the same size for bedivere.

[Updated on: Thu, 20 October 2005 17:29]

      
Luke the Flaming
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Thu, 20 October 2005 19:06
The designer said (some time ago) in an interview that they're working on an expansion. It's going to need some time, so don't hold your breath (but you may expect it sooner or later Wink ).
      
iand
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Thu, 27 October 2005 01:35
My expansion ideas (brief)

1) Fiefdoms and men-at-arms, colour coded to their knight. That would open up lots of opportunities in the potential game play eg "why is Sir Tristan gathering such a host - does he intend harm upon some good knight or does he plan to end the Pictish threat?"

2) One or two new quests

3) a Town mapboard (interaction with the populace to eg obtain equipment, sustenance, medical treatment! etc)

4) Money??
      
Duisterprei
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Sun, 15 January 2006 15:31
(5) Add different sets of White & Black cards corresponding to different difficulty levels.

(6) Something to make the black knight a bit more viscious, in our games noone ever visits his tournament and just plays every card face down to get a white card. (For example: A number of black card s that say "Resolve the Black Knight quest immediately)

(7) Some more blank white and black cards so we can scribble our own rules on them with non-permanent markers.
      
Nordiskanc
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Sun, 15 January 2006 17:36
How about a special black card that adds both a Saxon and a Pict to the battlefield.

[Updated on: Sun, 15 January 2006 17:37]

      
Myxlstyx
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Mon, 27 March 2006 04:09
I would think that an expansion would have to entail quest trade outs. I.E the holy grail quest removed for a different type of quest.

I believe that just adding more quests would make the game easier as the likely hood of the cards spreading out accross the quests becomes higher making them finish slower. This would give the knights more time to assess the threat levels. Of course, I'm no mathematician/statistician.. maybe more quests would make it harder as knights have more places to go...

Thoughts?
      
AK_Aramis
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Thu, 30 March 2006 06:42
If one adds more quests with quest specific black AND white cards, the game will be slightly less focussed, but if the proportions of white to black are maintained, that is more quests to lose, more black swords, and more mayhem.

Tradeouts on the one-time-only quests have the opposite effect, much like Lacenlot/Dragon.... the tradeout will make the game easier in the long run, by giving those blacks something other to do than provide more siege engines.
      
Nordiskanc
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Wed, 19 April 2006 16:11
Hoepfully one of the new quests will be considerablely "harder" to complete much like the grail (hardest IMO) so that for us veterans of the game will have the complexity boosted. Smile

Now the question is.... is hoping for Xmas of '06 release of the expansion too much to hope for? Rolling Eyes

[Updated on: Thu, 20 April 2006 05:12]

      
Sagrilarus
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Mon, 24 April 2006 02:56
Fifty says this is DoW's toughest game to expand. The balance is really on a knife edge. In my opinion, they need to play-test any expansion about 500 times to see how things fall out. And they will hopefully make it easy to "back out" of the game if it doesn't work out for someone.

Sag.


      
atefec
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Mon, 24 April 2006 07:24
Sagrilarus schrieb am Mon, 24 April 2006 02:56

In my opinion, they need to play-test any expansion about 500 times to see how things fall out.

I agree, Sag! SoC is very good balanced right now and so an expansion must be very difficult to integrate. I hope that Serge, Bruno and DOW do a lot of play-testing before they release it. I prefer waiting some more months and receive an expansion that really harmonizes with the basic game.
      
Nordiskanc
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Tue, 25 April 2006 01:31
I'm sure the expansion will be great, just about everything DOW has touched has turned to gold. Thumbs Up Although a small expansion along the lines of 'mystery train' or 'pilgrims chronicles' shouldn't be too hard to implement.
      
gf_ripper
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Fri, 28 April 2006 08:23
sounds cool. Can't wait to see the details on it. Anyone Know if the 3d essen 05 version will be up for sale at some point? Such a cool design for the game.
      
gilbertgea
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Fri, 05 May 2006 02:31
It would seem to me that the easiest thing to do in making an expansion would to just add more of the traditional knights of the round table as player options.
      
AK_Aramis
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Fri, 05 May 2006 07:38
That they already have done... once, with one knight.
      
gilbertgea
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Fri, 05 May 2006 12:44
I know that. But, they could add more knights or other characters and give the players more choices of whom to be. That way, you wouldnt be seriously mucking with the game's mechanics.
      
ColtsFan76
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Fri, 05 May 2006 12:55
I think adding knights is one route but I would not be eager to buy an expansion that just included additional pieces.

What I would expect is that a quest could be added along with additional cards to help keep the balance. Adding cards would help dilute the frequency of other quests racking up forces of evil. But you could help keep the probability of pulling certain evil actions by increasing the number of those previously published cards.

Another route would be to replace certain off board quests. The Black night, seige engines, and Picts & Saxons would remain but you could replace Lancelot/Dragon, the Grail, and Excalibur with other quests for variety. The approporaite cards could be switched out in the deck.

The final option, if new knights were to be added, woul dbe to increase the number of potential traitors to 2. But to help keep balance, maybe wrongly accusing a knight would cost you more swords that it already does (since the chance of "uncovering" the traitor doubles if 2 are in play).

My preference would be a combo of them all. I would lean towards the new quests with potentialy two rulesets: one to replace quests and the other to add them to the exisiting. But while expansions are being made, I would like to see additional knight thrown in (preferably of the same color bases as the original so that if the new white knight is drawn, the original could not be used in play.)
      
Nordiskanc
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Sat, 06 May 2006 02:32
ColtsFan76 wrote on Fri, 05 May 2006 06:55

But while expansions are being made, I would like to see additional knight thrown in (preferably of the same color bases as the original so that if the new white knight is drawn, the original could not be used in play.)



I take it Sir Percival is your least favorite Knight too. Laughing
      
ColtsFan76
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Sat, 06 May 2006 13:15
Nordiskanc wrote on Fri, 05 May 2006 19:32

ColtsFan76 wrote on Fri, 05 May 2006 06:55

But while expansions are being made, I would like to see additional knight thrown in (preferably of the same color bases as the original so that if the new white knight is drawn, the original could not be used in play.)



I take it Sir Percival is your least favorite Knight too. Laughing

LOL. Actually, I wrote that from work so I didn't even know who was who. It was just an example..... Unless my sub-conscious took over....
      
gilbertgea
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Sun, 07 May 2006 14:29
Adding a quest or quests would be an obvious and good way to go. Keeping in mind the post-Treason of Lancelot & Guenevere timeframe of the game, I'd just take care to make sure the quest is appropriate and not anachronistic. For instance, an additional quest with a potentially high payoff (or penalty) could be The War Against Rome, which -- in my opinion -- should be a recurring group Combat Quest.

Another possible quest could be the Giant of Mont St. Michel, which is more mythical than legendary -- but I know less about that one.

Gawain's Quest of the Green Knight sounds like a good subject, but I think that he (the Green Knight) was around before Lancelot & Guenevere pulled their little stunt...
      
ColtsFan76
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Sun, 07 May 2006 22:06
gilbertgea wrote on Sun, 07 May 2006 07:29

Adding a quest or quests would be an obvious and good way to go. Keeping in mind the post-Treason of Lancelot & Guenevere timeframe of the game, I'd just take care to make sure the quest is appropriate and not anachronistic. For instance, an additional quest with a potentially high payoff (or penalty) could be The War Against Rome, which -- in my opinion -- should be a recurring group Combat Quest.

Another possible quest could be the Giant of Mont St. Michel, which is more mythical than legendary -- but I know less about that one.

Gawain's Quest of the Green Knight sounds like a good subject, but I think that he (the Green Knight) was around before Lancelot & Guenevere pulled their little stunt...

So why couldn't it be a prequel sort of expansion?
      
Nordiskanc
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Sun, 07 May 2006 22:35
exactly, you could replace the Lancelot quest with another combat sort of quest, remove the Guinevire (sp?) card from the deck, add other stuff Smile
      
gilbertgea
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Mon, 08 May 2006 17:22
There's really no reason why you couldnt do a "prequel", but it would definitely affect the rest of the game. For one thing, you'd have to remove/replace the Lancelot's Armour quest and the Guinevere card. I think that would be a great idea in exploring a "what if"-type scenario in which Lancelot and Guinevere suppress their carnal desires and remain loyal to Arthur. This would allow Lancelot to be added as a possible player/knight and perhaps allow the addition of a White Guinevere card of some sort.

On the other hand, doing this would also change the whole "Shadows" flavour... It might even make the game too easy to play and win. With Lancelot (perhaps the greatest knight of legend) and Guinevere remaining loyal, what sort of opposition would there be to King Arthur's Camelot? All there would really be left is the wars against the barbarians, the quests for the mythical relics (Excalibur and the Grail), and the war against Rome (if developed).

Thoughts?

P.S. On a similar note, I think that another relic should be added: the Bleeding Lance (aka the Spear of Destiny/Holy Lance/Lance of Longinus), but probably as a White Card and not as a separate quest.
      
ColtsFan76
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Mon, 08 May 2006 17:41
I only have a rudimentary knowledge of King Arthur and the Knights of the round table. (BTW, I have been interested in reading more about them and have looked at some books - any suggestions on which direction I should take?)

But you mentioned that some quests were pre-Lancelot's treachery. You could add these quests in an expansion, along with a lancelot figure, card, and die and also include the Guinevere card, as you mentioned.
      
gilbertgea
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Mon, 08 May 2006 19:27
ColtsFan76,

Hello! There are a few pretty good sources online concerning the Matter of Britain (a generic, mediaeval term for the Arthurian legends):



The first one, "Arthurian Legends" at "Timeless Myths", is a great general source that includes many if not most of the significant people, places, things, and other elements of the Arthurian legends. Some of the English leaves a little to be desired, but I think the site's strength lies in its overall scope.

The second one, "King Arthur" at "Early British Kingdoms", is an excellent source that gives you not only a summary of the major characters of the Arthurian legends, but the actual historical people on whom they were supposedly based.

There was another great source called "The Age of Arthur" by David Hughes (URL: http://www.angelfire.com/ego/et_deo/kingarthur.wps.htm), but the authour pulled the "meat" off the site in preparation for the up-coming publishing of a larger work ("The British Chronicles") that is supposed to include "The Age of Arthur" as one of its chaptres.

The strength of this work is in the way Mr. Hughes takes the various elements of the legends and attempts to place them in a proper historical context. I've corresponded with the authour rather extensively and his breadth and depth of knowledge on the subject is impressive. Unfortunately, you'll probably have to wait until the book is published to read what he has to say about the age of Arthur, but I can give you some of the highlights in a separate post or email.

I'd say, however, in the meantime, go take a look at the first two links I just posted. One thing you'll quickly realise about the Arthurian legends is that there isnt one, definitive answer concerning who Arthur was, what his role was, who all of his contemporaries were, what he did in his lifetime, etc. There are Welsh legends, Anglo-Saxon legends, French romances, and even some German and Italian Arthurian traditions. However, after a little bit of study and extrapolation, it becomes possible to deduce who the major players were and what most likely occurred.//

BREAK

As to the suggestion about a Lancelot figure and Guinevere card, perhaps there is some innovative way to make Lancelot & Guinevere's alignment/loyalty *random*. I.e., the players dont know what the two of them will do each game, making each game even more distinct. In one game, Lancelot and Guinevere could remain true to Arthur, thus increasing Camelot's chances of survival/victory; in another, they might betray Arthur and hasten Camelot's downfall.

Just thinking aloud. Please feel free to throw tomatoes, etc.
      
atefec
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Tue, 09 May 2006 07:39
gilbertgea schrieb am Mon, 08 May 2006 19:27

As to the suggestion about a Lancelot figure and Guinevere card, perhaps there is some innovative way to make Lancelot & Guinevere's alignment/loyalty *random*. I.e., the players dont know what the two of them will do each game, making each game even more distinct. In one game, Lancelot and Guinevere could remain true to Arthur, thus increasing Camelot's chances of survival/victory; in another, they might betray Arthur and hasten Camelot's downfall.

Just thinking aloud. Please feel free to throw tomatoes, etc.

No tomatoes needed, gilbertgea, seems like an interesting idea to me! And thanks for the links about the legend of Arthur, those are really informative!
Thumbs Up Smile
      
gilbertgea
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Tue, 09 May 2006 18:32
atefec,

Bitte schoen! I saw your post in another thread and I was hoping you'd see these references here so I wouldnt have to repeat myself. Glad you found this one and that you think the links are worthwhile.
      
holywolfman
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Mon, 26 June 2006 07:52
Hey ColtsFan...good to see you here as well! Cool

[Updated on: Mon, 26 June 2006 07:52]

      
ColtsFan76
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Mon, 26 June 2006 15:16
holywolfman wrote on Mon, 26 June 2006 00:52

Hey ColtsFan...good to see you here as well! Cool

You too!!!
      
atefec
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Thu, 17 August 2006 09:31
One good and one bad news from the german forum: Bernd from DOW confirmed that there will be definitely an expansion. Very Happy

The bad news: The contents are still secret and the expansion will not be released until next year. So we got to keep on waiting! Crying or Very Sad
      
Luke the Flaming
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Thu, 17 August 2006 14:21
atefec wrote on Thu, 17 August 2006 09:31

One good and one bad news from the german forum: Bernd from DOW confirmed that there will be definitely an expansion. Very Happy

The bad news: The contents are still secret and the expansion will not be released until next year. So we got to keep on waiting! Crying or Very Sad


If it had been scheduled for this year, we'd have already got a few "teasers".
I'm awaiting Essen 2007.
      
signofthetiger
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Fri, 08 September 2006 09:14
I could definitely go for a 10 player SOC game with maybe a second traitor thrown in. Twisted Evil looking forward to hearing more.
      
Luke the Flaming
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Fri, 08 September 2006 12:15
In a recent interview, Mr. Cathala declared that TWO expansions are planned for the future: one composed only by cards (White and Black) and another with new boards (Quests).
Let's wait...
      
signofthetiger
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Fri, 15 September 2006 05:46
What!? Shocked No new knights? Sad Grrr! Mad
      
atefec
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Fri, 15 September 2006 08:31
signofthetiger schrieb am Fri, 15 September 2006 05:46

What!? Shocked No new knights? Sad Grrr! Mad

I really hope that the expansion with the new cards will also contain new knights!
Smile
      
signofthetiger
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  Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Mon, 13 November 2006 05:11
Any news on the upcoming expansions?
      
angel_azrael
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Tue, 14 November 2006 19:58
something tells me we wont be hearing anything about expansions for shadows until well after BattleLore has made its grand entrance... Rolling Eyes
      
signofthetiger
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  Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Fri, 17 November 2006 09:44
Oh well, I guess I'll just have to wait then. I have no interest in Battle Lore and certainly not for 70 bucks. Gamers on a budget have to draw the line somewhere. Neutral
      
AK_Aramis
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Fri, 17 November 2006 10:47
I'm of the other side... I can hardly convince people to play SoC more than twice... they realize what a brainburn it can be, and don't want to spend 3 hours struggling against it just to lose.

I figure games need to make 1 person-hour of play per $2... SoC has barely broken even at that rate, after a year.

Settlers did after a month. Seafarers after another month. Starfarers of Catan took 3 months, but was interspersed with Seafarers. Three years later, Cities and Knights hasn't... But then, 4-6 players, 5-8 hours per game... $40-90 worth of play.

M44 and expansions have done so in two months. Even though each play is 1 hour, and two people, at an aggregate $4/play, I've put in a dozen plays this month alone! Another dozen last month, when I bought it. $90 worth of play time in two months.

SoC, well, of the 7 people I've played it with, 4 have enjoyed playing it...and they are far afield. I don't have the group to play it with, and it's not going to pay off quickly... Counting those four, the enjoyed person hours are about 25 person hours, in a year. Total person hours are about 40. in a year. In two months I've gotten that with M44...

For me, the value for money is not in SoC, even though I love SoC. I will, eventually, buy the supplements... but they will not be priority.

[Updated on: Fri, 17 November 2006 10:49]

      
Nordiskanc
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Re:Are there any plans for expansions to Shadows? Fri, 17 November 2006 12:58
Signofthetiger,
I agree with your post, no interest at all in Battlelore. I very much look forward to any expansions to Shadows over Camelot, it is one of my most played games, that and memoir. That is when they put out new official sceanrios that is...
      
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