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gibsonb
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  Scenarios from the front nonsense Mon, 08 January 2007 17:05
It's been awhile since I've visited the English-filtered Scenarios from the Front site - and I, regrettably, wish I hadn't. Shocked

What was originally intended to be an english-only somewhat historic scenario site, instead, has turned into a multi-language "create anything you want" site. We now have zombies attack games, and troops now invading California and Canada.....yea, right Laughing

It's just too bad that "Days of Wonder" won't put in the minimal amount of time to manage, what could be, a good site supporting a good game system.

Evil or Very Mad
      
neil1967
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Mon, 08 January 2007 21:43
Oh dear, and here was me going to share my ideas for Dr Who games using the M44/Battlelore system...

Advanced science is just like magic, yeah?

Still, I guess we have to stick with the historical stuff Rolling Eyes

      
yangtze
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Tue, 09 January 2007 00:57
That's nothing, they were talking about smearing catapult carrying elephants with bacon fat over on consimworld.com
      
gibsonb
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Wed, 10 January 2007 16:29
Oh well, I guess I'll now know where to go to find more scenarios for Commands & Colors Ancients Twisted Evil "I'm not cleaning up after those dang elephants"
      
Epicurean
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Sat, 13 January 2007 23:12
And I've just started a thread about whether players would be okay with me uploading some 'non-historical' nay even 'tongue-in-cheek' scenarios! I guess some people are against that!!!

PS Neil if you're serious about the Dr Who stuff.....I'm in! Smile
      
clercon
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Wed, 17 January 2007 10:54
Epicurean wrote on Sat, 13 January 2007 23:12

And I've just started a thread about whether players would be okay with me uploading some 'non-historical' nay even 'tongue-in-cheek' scenarios! I guess some people are against that!!!

PS Neil if you're serious about the Dr Who stuff.....I'm in! Smile


I don't think people are against that. They just want a way to sort the scenarios....so you can exclude the non historical ones.
      
neil1967
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Wed, 17 January 2007 16:41
Quote:

I don't think people are against that. They just want a way to sort the scenarios....so you can exclude the non historical ones.


I wish you were right, but reading the message that starts this thread it appears clear that some people want only historical WWII scenarios, and only in English. I'll let the non-English speakers defend themselves (hopefully with assistance from the DOW marketing department, who I assume appreciate not being limited to the English speaking world to sell their games to).

I can never understand why people should complain about too much being available, after all you can pick and choose what you want, no one is forced to read the stuff they don't like.

      
red_zebra
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Wed, 17 January 2007 20:43
You do have to read "unpleasant" stuff before choosing Rolling Eyes Laughing

wish for a Kelly Heroes Overlord...without zombies please Cool
      
ColtsFan76
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Wed, 17 January 2007 21:36
neil1967 wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 09:41

I can never understand why people should complain about too much being available, after all you can pick and choose what you want, no one is forced to read the stuff they don't like.


The problem comes from the fact that you have to sort through it all to get to the good stuff. So having too much available is not a good thing when it is too much of "bad" stuff. And by "bad" I mean non-wwii games.

I personally think things to do with zombies shouldn't even be on the site. people are taking advantage of DOW and the M44 community by posting those things here.

Quasi-wwii scenarios are fine by me. Throw a what if if the Germans invaded the US. Doesn't bother me while it does bother some. So i think that is why some are asking for more filters. That way the "too much" can be sorted and everyone can go to the areas the interest them the most.
      
neil1967
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Wed, 17 January 2007 23:21
Quote:

I personally think things to do with zombies shouldn't even be on the site. people are taking advantage of DOW and the M44 community by posting those things here.


Well, I assume when you refer to "things to do with zombies" you mean games using the M44 system using zombies? So they are posted by people who play M44 ("the M44 community") and who bought the game either direct from DOW or through a stockist of DOW games. In which case, given the scenarios/variants are posted by members of the community who are customers (directly or indirectly) of DOW, who's getting taken advantage of????

I'd prefer a "live and let live" attitude, anything else tends to split games communities and indirectly hurts the game system we should all be supporting.
      
AK_Aramis
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Wed, 17 January 2007 23:29
I don't go there much... that being said, we need a way to sort the nonsense from the good stuff.

We need at least three categories: WWII-Historical, WWII-Conjectural, and Misc

I wrote a WWII conjectural. It could have happened, it almost did happen. Both sides had plans for it happening.

I don't think it should be in with the historical scenarios. Wouldn't be right. But, I don't think there is ANY call for "zombies" scenarios being allowed to be public. Sorry, just not right. Go host it on your home-page.

it needs categories, and perhaps even a moderator with blocking powers.
      
ColtsFan76
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Thu, 18 January 2007 03:02
neil1967 wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 16:21

Quote:

I personally think things to do with zombies shouldn't even be on the site. people are taking advantage of DOW and the M44 community by posting those things here.


Well, I assume when you refer to "things to do with zombies" you mean games using the M44 system using zombies? So they are posted by people who play M44 ("the M44 community") and who bought the game either direct from DOW or through a stockist of DOW games.

I am sorry. Did I miss the expansion with Zombie rules and figures? If so, i truly apologize for expressing my opinions against such things.

This game is about wwii and only wwii-type scenarios. I like Napoleonics and wish we had a place to create scenarios and post rule sets. However, I am against that being here at the Memoir 44 site. Same thing with Battle Cry or Ancients. This isn't the proper place. And being able to post any scenarios is not our right. It is a privledge that DOW could take away at anytime. And it is their right to do that.

When this thread first came up, I just found the nonsense a nuisance and could care less what people posted. But the more it is discussed, the more I think something should be done to remove the crap on the site. It might give those who are trying to showcase well thought out scenarios reflecting wwii a chance for others to find them more easily.

Use the editor to make your scenarios, print them up, post them on your website, do what you want with them, just don't make them public here.
      
AK_Aramis
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Thu, 18 January 2007 06:06
Not just their right, ColtsFan, possibly also their duty.
      
coyote58
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Thu, 18 January 2007 08:06
I perfectly agree we need a system to classify SFTF.

For myself, i've stopped looking on STFT a long time ago, for two reason: there a lot of crap as you told, and I don't have the time to play them all. So I stick to what I read about in the forum. What I read ?? The announce by author of their newe scenarios. I try them and if i like the style, I look for it after. If it's crap, I remember that name and delete it in my mind. The other way is the scenario I read good comments about on the forum.

So, I probably miss a few good one from author who don't annouce their release. But I don't lose my time searching for a good one, and I don't lose time to making the board of one who seem good and appear in play to be real bad.

Not a perfect technic, could be better with a classification system for at least find my kind of scenario easyly, but it work well since then.

Don't forget that even with some class system, we still get bad scenario in the listing Very Happy
      
Brummbar44
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Thu, 18 January 2007 19:33
I have to admit, I am a little disheartened by the SFTF in general.

While there may be a bunch of how shall I say, hasty scenarios and flights of fancy there are some of us who put the efforts into creating solid historical scenarios...and for what?

Sure I enjoy playing my creations but part of having a community is to post them so others can not only enjoy but provide feedback as well. Something that for one reason or other, really hasn't happened.

I have a number of scenarios that I have created that I am simply hesitant to share. Partly because there is so much to filter on SFTF and fear they will just get lost and partly because it really seems that no one cares anyway. While privately you may be playing some of these, nobody is posting any feedback, no AAR's and no ratings. It's no wonder people who have made the effort in the past drop off in enthusiasm (like myself...it seems even my newsletter may soon go the way of the dodo for lack of support).

While you could certainly be justified in pointing the finger at DOW in not having a better filtering system or qualifications. And you are also correct in saying people shouldn't be posting fantastical scenarios we of the community also should bear part of the responsibility.

By not posting those AAR's or ratings on the scenarios you have played makes the efforts of those who have tried to bring you some quality scenarios deflated. This does a dieservice not only to the authors but to the community as a whole.
      
Epicurean
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Thu, 18 January 2007 19:37
Good grief! I thought this community was about sharing what we enjoy about our gaming. Suddenly we have 'duties' and 'rights' and such. We play this game for fun and entertainment. Personally, if I wanted to play zombies I'd play the board game 'Zombies' but that doesn't mean other people shouldn't enjoy using their M44 sets to have fun in this way. Okay, so I accept not everyone likes that....but to be quite honest I was looking for a good WW2-based scenario the other day and I found several (4 I think), they all played really well and I was genuinely impressed. And it took me all of ten minutes to find them.

I was going to post some 'quasi-WW2' stuff but if I'm going to be offending people by posting 'crap' (personally I feel that might be a bit harsh) then I won't.

Still, happy gaming everyone.
      
pl_walker
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Thu, 18 January 2007 20:34
Wow, I hadn't been to the SFTF but once or twice, and being a (relatively) new player (I only just got the Terrain and Pacific packs for Christmas), I haven't had many chances to play more than the existing scenarios.

I don't think anyone would disagree that the SFTF is a bit cluttered and difficult to manage. But, since it seems the DOW staff is a bit busy to jump in and fix it now, why not start working on the fix ourselves.

Obviously, we can't change the website for them, but coming up with a legitimate organizational idea might help if this issue does get looked at in the future.

That said, what other criteria are missing from the SFTF that would benefit everyone's ability to find what they need?

Currently, we have:

Language
Author*
Campaign**
Rating***

* - The system, unfortunately, doesn't show the author on the main page, so there is still some searching to find where your favorite author's scenarios begin.

** - This doesn't seem to be used consistently by everyone, but it looks like if it were, it would help with the confusion.

*** - I think there should be more than 3 stars. I prefer at least 5 stars and allowing half stars in the average (in other words, if I say 4 stars and you say 3 stars, and we are the only two, the scenario would get 3.5 stars).

Once we have an idea of what other criteria we want to sort by, it shouldn't take too much time to sort through what is there and put it into a spreadsheet or something similar with the ability to sort by criteria and provide a number for referencing back here.

I'd say to start, we add a criteria of category and sub-category. At a minimum, we would have three categories for a scenario to fit into:

WWII Scenarios
Other Historical Scenarios
Fictional Scenarios

Under each of these, we could use some sub-categories to further detail the scenarios. For example, under WWII we could have Normandy, Africa, Eastern Front, Pacific, Western, etc. Sub-categories in Other could include the actual war the scenario is from (Veitnam, Iraqi, Korean, etc). And Fictional could include Historical Fiction, Military Fiction, Sci-Fi/Horror/Fantasy. I have a general idea in mind for each of these categories and subs, but once we determine what they are, we can define them and that will make fitting a Scenario to them easier.

As a second criteria, I'd suggest for the actual war scenarios, we add a year (or beginning date).

Other than that, I'm open to other suggestions. What criteria do you want to sort by?

As far as actually playing the games, I'm not opposed to starting to play some and add to the rating and AAR's for them (although I've yet to do an AAR for any of the standard ones). I'd need a partner to play with, and but I'm open to working on them.

Paul
      
red_zebra
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Fri, 19 January 2007 00:21
Language should be better implemented. Currently there are several scenarios in Spanish, and no way to know which one. I happen to speak Spanish and French, but I can understand the frustration of opening a scenario that looked promising (Captain America in the boccage!) Rolling Eyes and finding that you cannot understand any of the victory conditions or the special rules. Mad

Also, a creator should NOT be allowed to rate his own scenario. Evil or Very Mad

I for one would not play a "Zombies in Normandie" scenario (mostly, I do not have the Zombie virus), on the other hand I do not care much if fictional, dark horror, little green men from Mars, giant Ogre tanks or dragons vs tanks scenarios are created and published in SFTF, as long as there is a way to know what they are by just reading the title. And if there is a good background (from a good book or movie, or unimplemented plans) my game group (old grognards from the SPI era) may certainly play it.

Memoir44 is the first easy to customize fun wargame, (Battlecry was never given much support). And in the heart of every Grognard there is a would be game tinkerer / designer. This community is for sharing the joy of a good game system, it just need some order in the sharing. Confused

And I really feel that if someone plays somebody else scenario, they should give some feedback. Call it support, courtesy, sharing of a passion, duty or whatever. Cool
      
raistlin_majere
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Fri, 19 January 2007 09:06
red_zebra wrote on Fri, 19 January 2007 01:21

Also, a creator should NOT be allowed to rate his own scenario. Evil or Very Mad


Hear hear! IMO there is nothing more pathetic than rating your own scenario with three stars. That option should be removed.
      
Brummbar44
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Fri, 19 January 2007 18:05
raistlin_majere wrote on Fri, 19 January 2007 00:06

red_zebra wrote on Fri, 19 January 2007 01:21

Also, a creator should NOT be allowed to rate his own scenario. Evil or Very Mad


Hear hear! IMO there is nothing more pathetic than rating your own scenario with three stars. That option should be removed.



I agree, however, there should be a method of allowing the author to reply or comment.
      
pl_walker
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Fri, 19 January 2007 19:49
OK, so we need more selections for language, but other than that, I don't hear any other suggestions.

Well, other than preventing the author from rating the thing, but that isn't something we can fix without the help of DOW.

So what other criteria would everyone like to see?

Another question, once a scenario is on the SFTF site, can the original author edit it, or is it stuck as is?

Paul
      
Brummbar44
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Fri, 19 January 2007 20:51
Good initiative Paul.

Yes, authors can edit their scenarios at any time.
      
neil1967
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Sat, 20 January 2007 00:13
Quote:

Yes, authors can edit their scenarios at any time.


Could they therefore add a word to the start of the scenario title (Historical/Fictional/etc.) so that you can tell at a glance if it is outwith your area of interest?

      
ColtsFan76
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Sat, 20 January 2007 05:11
neil1967 wrote on Fri, 19 January 2007 17:13

Quote:

Yes, authors can edit their scenarios at any time.


Could they therefore add a word to the start of the scenario title (Historical/Fictional/etc.) so that you can tell at a glance if it is outwith your area of interest?



Do you want to click on a thousand scenarios to see? The point of filtering it is so that you don't have to click on something that wouldn't have interested you anyway.
      
neil1967
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Mon, 22 January 2007 00:18
ColtsFan76 wrote on Sat, 20 January 2007 04:11

neil1967 wrote on Fri, 19 January 2007 17:13

Quote:

Yes, authors can edit their scenarios at any time.


Could they therefore add a word to the start of the scenario title (Historical/Fictional/etc.) so that you can tell at a glance if it is outwith your area of interest?



Do you want to click on a thousand scenarios to see? The point of filtering it is so that you don't have to click on something that wouldn't have interested you anyway.



But you see the title before you click to go into the scenario...???
      
gibsonb
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Tue, 23 January 2007 16:40
Many month's ago, I was contacted by a representative of DofW to identify the non-english scenarios from the front; as I suppose I was the first to complain on the forum. I provided the info, but nothing resulted from it. After a follow-up email to that same individual, he stated that GenCon was coming up. Thus, their attention was then being focused on the big event. Okay, fair enough. However, nothing subsequent to that event and time has, to date, addressed the problems within the website.

My current thinking is that Battlelore IS now the focus of their attention with Memoir now following up the rear. I believe there are clear indications of it: 1) the delays (or procrastination) in getting the release of the Memoir carrying case out, coupled with the apparent indifference to address the sad state of the scenarios from the front mixmatch of different languages contained in the english site. I believe these are all solid indicators, just as there was once a time when Battle-Cry was the "new kid in town".

Days of Wonder.......say it ain't so! Rolling Eyes
      
Tyto_Alba
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Tue, 23 January 2007 21:14
there realy aren't that many scenarios featuring zombies on SFTF, maybe one perhaps. i don't mind, i haven't played the scenario, but it seems like fun.
personally i like historicly correct scenarios, but that doesn't have to meen that each figure on the board is identified as division this, army # that and a special rules section of more than 500 words. in that case, i rather play the zombie scenario.
      
MajorOracle
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Wed, 24 January 2007 05:58
There are many active members on this forum. If DoW is too busy with other ventures at this time, perhaps they could delegate some responsibility for cleaning things up and/or administering parts of the Memoir website to a couple of the more trusted and respected members. This would benefit the community greatly and would seem to be a win-win for everyone, including DoW.

My 2 cents...
      
neil1967
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Wed, 24 January 2007 17:41
Quote:

There are many active members on this forum. If DoW is too busy with other ventures at this time, perhaps they could delegate some responsibility for cleaning things up and/or administering parts of the Memoir website to a couple of the more trusted and respected members. This would benefit the community greatly and would seem to be a win-win for everyone, including DoW.



Is that trusted and respected members who want non-english and non-historical scenarios, or trusted and respected members who don't want them? Rolling Eyes

Until we can all agree on what we want (around about the time that hell freezes over I imagine) it's probably best left to the owners of the site to handle these things, if they ever get round to it.
      
MajorOracle
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Wed, 24 January 2007 23:28
Well,

if there is no consensus, then it would make sense to allow all scenarios and provide enough categories for searching/sorting to allow scenarios of one type to be found together.

      
pl_walker
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Thu, 25 January 2007 01:44
Which brings me round to the original question I asked. What categories do we want added?

C'mon guys. We can keep griping and complaining about the fact that SFTF are all screwed up, or we can get off our collective duffs and try to fix it. I'm not opposed to doing leg work, but I need some help defining the categories. I'll even host the website with the "fixed" sorting if DOW is unable (time) or unwilling to modify the existing SFTF.

So, I've mentioned a few categories above. I'll rename them here to Setting and Location. What other ideas do folks want?

Paul
      
ColtsFan76
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Thu, 25 January 2007 02:58
Languages:
a English,
b Spanish,
c French (these are the only 3 I have run into)

Categories:
a Historical - WWII;
b "Fiction" - WWII (for lack of a better term - all the movie/tv/tongue-in-cheek/what-if that still pertain to WWII)
c Historical - non-WWII
d Other (for everything else that is not WWII or at least some reality based historical scenario)

Additional Filters:
by Author - or at least post there name on the screen - it sorts but you still don't know who are looking at.

Campaign or Year of Battle

Remove ability for author to rate his own scneario but allow comments and AARs

I would like to see more stars than 3; ability to filter out based on # of ratings.
      
MajorOracle
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Thu, 25 January 2007 08:28
Perhaps the ability to filter whether it requires Terrain Pack, Eastern Front, etc.

One thing that I would like but don't know if there's enough info to do this: The ability to see scenarios that have at least one objective medal in it.

Aloha,

      
Epicurean
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Thu, 25 January 2007 21:52
I have to agree with Coltsfan's language/type categories. That really is all someone with a little common sense needs to find the sort of scenario they are after. We have to accept that we may have to do a little searching to get exactly what we want but surely that's part of the fun....finding a scenario you didn't spot at first and realising how good it is.
      
tormentor
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Fri, 26 January 2007 09:11
Alright. I'll have to agree with most of you here, so I have made my part of "helping" the community. I deleted my scenarios because they're fictional or historical but in a completely different war. I will repost them only if we get a proper sorting system.

Smile
      
pl_walker
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Fri, 26 January 2007 19:16
OK, I can start sometime soon (tonight or this weekend) on sorting the scenarios. I'll need some help with the French and Spanish ones (stupid American that I am). Smile

If anyone has quicker scripting skills than I do and wants to do a CGI script to run a sorting page, I'll be glad to host it. Otherwise, we will have to wait until I can create the script as well, may be late next week or so.

Paul
      
coyote58
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Sat, 27 January 2007 11:05
Brummbär écrit le Thu, 18 January 2007 13:33


I have a number of scenarios that I have created that I am simply hesitant to share.


Please send it to me, or a PM so i know which number they have. I'm missing time for th english forum, and for playing, so it's fun if I can lpay those i'm quite sure i'll like, like your creations. Very Happy

By the way, i'm still working (slowly...) on the translation I ask you to look at. One day i'll send it to you...
      
coyote58
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Sat, 27 January 2007 11:19
pl_walker écrit le Fri, 26 January 2007 13:16

OK, I can start sometime soon (tonight or this weekend) on sorting the scenarios. I'll need some help with the French and Spanish ones (stupid American that I am). Smile




If anything start by Dow with help from members, I can take care of the french scenario (because i'm almost bilingual, stupid canadians... wait a minute ! i'm not stupid Laughing )

If we need one easy thing to help, it would be to have the author on the SFTF main page. I think it's possible easily to deal for DoW. One of you talk about a classification by extension: we already have it with the logo of each expansion beside the scenario title.

The ideal thing would be a small area to click when creating: historical, "historical planned" (but didn't happen, like invasion of Britain) and fictionnal.

The worst thing for me it's not the guy who rate their own scenario, it's those who don't try it, don't test it Twisted Evil
I hate looking at a scenario who seem good, and then, when reading the rules, it's impossible to play !


(oups, sorry for the double answer...) Embarassed

[Updated on: Sat, 27 January 2007 11:20]

      
gibsonb
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Mon, 29 January 2007 16:49
I'd agree with you MajorOracle. However, in spite of the activity within this site, the "Scenarios From The Front" has (and probably won't) be cleaned up. DofW monitors this forum and still they don't care! IMHO, Battlelore is the "new kid in town" and Memoir now a distance second or third. It makes me sick to think about it. Embarassed
      
hochwald
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Re:Scenarios from the front nonsense Wed, 07 February 2007 23:53
so check the latest battlelore chronicle. seems like the
kind of thing we are all waiting for.

http://blog.battlelore.com/en/

sounds interesting.
      
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