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kilgore
Junior Member

Posts: 11
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September 2005
  Field Leaders Rules Fri, 02 March 2007 20:49
This idea came to me when I was looking at small tokens of Lore Masters. As you know there are two small tokens for each of member: Commander, Warrior, Rouge, Cleric, Wizard. Until now DOW hasn not gave us any clue what they can be used for. So I have started to think how would I used in game... And here it is: Field Leaders. Smile

It hasn't been playtested yet since I just came to this idea, but I'm sure I will do it next time I play BL and let you know how does it work.
Of course if any one of you has any ideas or suggestion please let me know.

Please foregive me for my English. It's not my first language so I guess in some cases it may sound strange for you, but I was trying to put this as straight as I could. If any of you think that these rules are worth polishing please do so...(BTW: My first language is Polish so Polishing the rules can have two meanings for me Wink

LEADERS:
- When you choose third level council member in addition to his Landmark you will have Lore Master as the Field Leader.
- Each Leader is represented by a small token (I mean those tokens which are of the same size as Lore Tokens) and is placed in Lore Master Landmark at the beginning of the game.
- Leader can move through battlefiled with any standard unit helping it to fight using his special abilities.
- Unit is Led by Leader if the Leader is on the same hex as the unit. If Unit is Led it can benefit from Leader special abilities.
- Leaders can not be killed but can be captured counting towards total victory points (as long as they are kept).

MOVEMENT:
- If the Unit is ordered during Movement Phase Leader who led it can automatically move together with this unit. But if he choose he can also stay in place (and of course the Unit is no longer Led by the Leader)
- At the end of your turn, after drawing Command and Lore Cards you can move your leaders alone, but only those who didn't move this turn (hadn't left the hexes they stand at the beginig of the turn). Moving Leaders alone cost 1 Lore per Leader.
- Lone Leaders moves 2 hexes (except of Rouge who moves 3 hexes) ignoring terrain restriction (but not impassible terrain) and can move through hexes occupied by friendly units.
- Leaders can end their movement either on the same hex as any friendly unit (which become Led by the Leader from this moment) or at any unoccupied hex (which of course can be dangerous for them).

CAPTURING THE LEADER
- You can capture your opponent's Leader in two ways:
o Catching unprotected Leader on unoccupied hex. The unit which stand on the same hex as opponent's Leader automatically captures him.
o Killing the unit which was Led by the Leader. In this case the unit who caused last hit captures and holds the Leader.
- Leaders can be recaptured by killing the unit which is holding him
- You can not move captured Leader between your units

SPECIAL ABILITIES:
- Commander:
Unit which is Led by Commander is always Bold
- Warrior:
If you roll at least one Lore during your Attack or Battle Back you can score one additional hit. All other Lore rolled are wasted and can not be turned into Lore tokens.
- Rouge:
Unit which is Led by Rouge can move one additional hex and ignore terrain movement restrictions.
- Wizard:
If you roll Lore attacking with unit led by Wizard you can take Lore tokens from your opponents pool instead of common pool. If your opponent doesn't have any Lore tokens in his pool then Lore rolled counts as hits.
- Cleric:
Unit which is Led by Cleric can ignore any hits except caused by Banner Colors rolled. It means that unit ignores hits caused by Bonus Attacks, Flags, Panic Rolls, Earthquakes and others (anyway Hill Giant still rerolls his Bonus Attacks even if they cause no harm to defending unit).


Ok... So what do you think?
Any comments are welcomed. Smile

[Updated on: Fri, 02 March 2007 21:09]

      
mjkoopman
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November 2005
Re:Field Leaders Rules Fri, 02 March 2007 21:53
I have a feeling that in some upcoming expansion, we're going to get rules to accomplish something similar to this (maybe the heroes rules?). But, in the meantime, this looks pretty good! I like the bonuses that you give for the different lore masters. Each are unique, but really fit the type of lore master.

There are a couple of things that I'm not too sure about.

1.
kilgore wrote on Fri, 02 March 2007 14:49

-Leaders can not be killed but can be captured counting towards total victory points (as long as they are kept).
I think that this may be a problem - in a game that usually only lasts till someone scores 5 or 6 points, a full extra point for killing a unit with a leader may make it too risky to even want a leader on the board.

2.
Quote:

Cleric:
Unit which is Led by Cleric can ignore any hits except caused by Banner Colors rolled. It means that unit ignores hits caused by Bonus Attacks, Flags, Panic Rolls, Earthquakes and others (anyway Hill Giant still rerolls his Bonus Attacks even if they cause no harm to defending unit).
Does this ability also include the effects of lore cards, or does it just cover attack rolls? If it includes spells, this ability seems a little over-powered to me.

3. As a possible alternative for 1., maybe the bonus the opponent recieves for capturing a leader should also be related to which leader was captured. Ideas (and I'm really just throwing these out there; I don't know how well they would work):
Capture a
-commander: leader's owner plays with one less command card.
-wizard: leader's owner recieves one less token when lore is rolled (eg. 1 lore rolled = 0 lore tokens, 2 lore rolled = 1 lore token)
-cleric: capturing unit forces cleric to use his powers of healing to fully heal capturing unit (if damaged).
-warrior: capturing unit becomes bold (i don't really like this one, but its all I can think of right now).
-rouge: ... i'm out of ideas. I don't know what would be an appropriate bonus.

3b. Another possibilty: since I'm assuming these leaders represent the lore masters themselves out in the field, maybe something like a higher cost to cast their spells would be approriate. Maybe you would have to pay 3 extra lore to cast a wizard spell if the wizard is captured, but you would still play the spell as 3rd level.

3c. (One More): Maybe the capturing player forces the captured lore master to work for him, and he can now play lore cards as if he had a 3rd level lore master of that type. (if he already has a level 3 lore master of that type, he plays as if he had a level 4 master?)


Well, these are just a few more ideas that popped into my head when I read your post. What do you think?
      
kilgore
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September 2005
Re:Field Leaders Rules Sat, 03 March 2007 02:48
Thanks for sharing your thoughs. Smile

mjkoopman wrote on Fri, 02 March 2007 21:53

I think that this may be a problem - in a game that usually only lasts till someone scores 5 or 6 points, a full extra point for killing a unit with a leader may make it too risky to even want a leader on the board.


I think that's the interesting part. Should I risk to use this leader's ability now when I can loose the game if he get captured or should I rather withdraw him to some place safe?
It's the same proble as you (or at least I...) have with Red Cavalry with only one figure left - should I withdraw it or still use it on the front line...
Moreover leaders can be recaptured...
mjkoopman wrote on Fri, 02 March 2007 21:53

Does this ability also include the effects of lore cards, or does it just cover attack rolls? If it includes spells, this ability seems a little over-powered to me.


It's only for attack rolls. I agree that it would be much too strong if it would also covered spells and other effects.


And if you really look for alternative for victory points for captured Leader I think that the best way is to penalize casting spells. I was also thinkig about something like this but I still believe that VP are more interesting...
I also like the idea of adding extra level in the area of captured Leader... But I'm not sure if it's realistic. A prisoner is a prisoner - it's not that easy to convince him to serve you, don't you think?
      
cebalrai
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August 2005
Re:Field Leaders Rules Sat, 03 March 2007 04:10
I totally agree with mj that the extra VP isn't a good situation. That easily creates spikes in scoring. Not to mention it shortens the game.

With your rules, I would always decline the option of having a leader, then I would do my best to take out my opponents' leader for the quick win. And what person would be foolish enough to put a leader in a 3-unit cavalry when a whole extra VP is on the line? If your opponent does a mere 3 damage to the unit, he gets two VPs! Also, if my unit captures a leader, I would never want it to see combat. Losing that unit plus letting my opponent have his leader back is a point swing that's just enormous. I would want to just execute leaders, since keeping them alive is a huge liability!

Seems like a shoddy design in the VP respect.

Commander - Always bold... Basically turns the unit into a dwarf, which there are already rules for. I would encourage you to come up with something original here if you can. Maybe something that influences how many units you can move in that section?

Warrior - Sure.

Rogue - Rouge means red in French by the way Smile. I think it would be cooler if they could ignore terrain restrictions on combat. At least partially. That would make them more spy-like. I think your rogue is actually a ranger.

Wizard - Cool.

Cleric - Okay.

As for overall balance, I'd say the heroes are of dramatically different power levels. The cleric saves his unit potentially a large number of hits. The Wizard on the other hand, it extremely weak since he needs to get lucky enough to roll lore, and even then it only has an indirect effect.

Compare the Warrior to the Wizard. Both heroes' abilities are triggered when lore is rolled. One saps your opponent's lore pool and the other gets a bonus hit. I would 99.99% of the time want to have a bonus hit over dropping my opponent's lore pool by 1. Hits are just far more important, especially against powerful targets such as cavalry.

Overall, I like your ideas. My recommendation would be to try to balance things better, ditch the VP idea, and start over with the commander hero.
      
Silverwings
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Posts: 161
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August 2007
Re:Field Leaders Rules Fri, 31 August 2007 16:52
Hi, sound interesting.

Can I list them on our website as potential extra rules?

Check it out: www.battlelorecamp.page.tl

We will be adding interesting rule suggestions there soon.

Cheers,

Tom
      
Roobarb
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May 2007
Re:Field Leaders Rules Fri, 31 August 2007 17:43
i like whate you have done apart from a few points the leader this is you or me at least just bold dont cut it for me (battles where offten decided by the death of a commander) i think bold plus supporting any ajacent units ie makeing them bold to
as for the VP thing i think only the comander would be should be worth 1vp
a surjestion is that the leaders have lives ie L3 cleric has 3lives loses 1 life and becomes a L2 cleric so if your cleric dies and you whant to play a cleric lore card you will have to play it out of charicter

[Updated on: Fri, 31 August 2007 17:44]

      
yangtze
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Re:Field Leaders Rules Fri, 31 August 2007 18:20
I agree with Roobard that the Commander should make his, and all adjacent, units bold, but also I'd add that all leaders make the unit they are with bold.

Leader movement and loss would be better handled broadly the same way as BC/CCA imo. This would provide continuity in the series and is a tried and tested method. It also feels right in play.

The special abilities are cool.
      
Roobarb
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Re:Field Leaders Rules Fri, 31 August 2007 18:46
how dose it work in BC/CCA and what is BC/CCA Question
      
yangtze
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Re:Field Leaders Rules Fri, 31 August 2007 19:05
Oh Battle Cry and Commands and Colours Ancients Smile
      
Silverwings
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August 2007
Re:Field Leaders Rules Mon, 03 September 2007 11:28
CHAPTER II of our campaign is out.
Check it out: www.battlelorecamp.page.tl

We've also included a section with specials rules (like the one in this topic) to collect an overview from all nice extra rules made by players.
      
Roobarb
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Re:Field Leaders Rules Tue, 04 September 2007 15:55
hay player 373319 i think youer web site is very good however the way you have gone about spreading the word has upset a lot of pepole http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?th=12500&goto=end i think you read this thread and if you feel like it say sorry 80% of the pepole okay 10% are very nice and 10% are idiots so i guess what im saying is be a 90%er pepole have the opption to ignore youer posts and you dont whant that do you?
      
    
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