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dbc-
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Winning conditions Epic BattleLore Fri, 16 March 2007 00:02
We just played a few Epic games this evening, but had a disagreement on how to read the victory conditions (pg. 6). If you get 7 points, but your opponent has 6, do you need to score two more points, or is it enough to reach 8?
      
blindspot
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Re:Winning conditions Epic BattleLore Fri, 16 March 2007 00:55
In that case you would need to get one more VP and your opponent none, thus winning by two at 8 to 6. If at 7-6 your opponenent evened things up to 7-7, the winner would be the first to then score 9 with a final winning score of 9-7 or 9-8.
      
Sabreman
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Re:Winning conditions Epic BattleLore Fri, 16 March 2007 01:24
It's like squash!

Only with more injuries.
      
céro
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Re:Winning conditions Epic BattleLore Fri, 16 March 2007 10:11
I just overflew the rules (in german) but I read this different: if it's 7-6 then the winner is the first to reach 9 points. But may be im completely wrong..
      
dbc-
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Re:Winning conditions Epic BattleLore Fri, 16 March 2007 11:40
céro wrote on Fri, 16 March 2007 10:11

I just overflew the rules (in german) but I read this different: if it's 7-6 then the winner is the first to reach 9 points. But may be im completely wrong..

That is exactly how I read it too. Actually it never occurred to me to read it the other way, until the games yesterday.
It would be really nice with an official answer...

[Updated on: Fri, 16 March 2007 11:42]

      
badger89
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Re:Winning conditions Epic BattleLore Fri, 16 March 2007 15:17
having just played my first eipc game yesterday i would say that it goes 7-5 8-6 9-7 etc.
i like it like this,having won 7-4 i probably would. Me and my playing buddy are considering trying this out on m44 to see what difference it makes there.
Anway the epic battles make BL for me. Before i liked it over m44 but only just. But having played an epic battle i can say that i am totally enamoured with the game.
      
ColtsFan76
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Re:Winning conditions Epic BattleLore Fri, 16 March 2007 15:27
I thought the English rules were quite clear:

1a. First to 7 wins (7-X where X<6)
1b. You must win by two medals (8-6)
2. First to 9 automatically wins (9-X where X=7 or Cool
      
céro
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Re:Winning conditions Epic BattleLore Fri, 16 March 2007 15:33
ColtsFan76 schrieb am Fri, 16 March 2007 15:27

I thought the English rules were quite clear:

1a. First to 7 wins (7-X where X<6)
1b. You must win by two medals (8-6)
2. First to 9 automatically wins (9-X where X=7 or Cool


1a is ok, but what with the 2 points difference. I read it the way, that if you do not have 2 points of difference when the first player reaches 7 points, then the game continous until one player reaches 9 points. The two points difference only matter at the very moment the first player reaches 7 points. If at that very moment there are two or more points difference, the game ends, if not this means a score of 7-6), the game ends when the first player reaches 9 points

At least that's the way I'm going to play until there is another official answer. It also seems to be the better way to deal with it, because as the one player in lead with 7-6 to win you still have to kill 2 units - it will prevent you to just jumping on one weak unit of you opponent player to end the game - there's a little more strategy needed. I like it better that way!

[Updated on: Fri, 16 March 2007 15:46]

      
ColtsFan76
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Re:Winning conditions Epic BattleLore Fri, 16 March 2007 15:40
céro wrote on Fri, 16 March 2007 09:33

ColtsFan76 schrieb am Fri, 16 March 2007 15:27

I thought the English rules were quite clear:

1a. First to 7 wins (7-X where X<6)
1b. You must win by two medals (8-6)
2. First to 9 automatically wins (9-X where X=7 or Cool


1a is ok, but what with the 2 points difference. I read it the way, that if you do not have 2 points of difference when the first player reaches 7 points, then the game continous until one player reaches 9 points. The two points difference only matter when the first player reaches 7 points.

I'll check the english rules now Very Happy

I think you are right. Re-reading the rules now, it appears my memory was fuzzy (and it was like the Blindspot leading the blind that gave me a false positive).

I would say it is this:

1. First to 7 wins if other player has 5 or less medals
2. First to 9 automatically wins
      
Titeman
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Re:Winning conditions Epic BattleLore Fri, 16 March 2007 15:43
ColtsFan76 wrote on Fri, 16 March 2007 07:40

I think you are right. Re-reading the rules now, it appears my memory was fuzzy (and it was like the Blindspot leading the blind that gave me a false positive).

I would say it is this:

1. First to 7 wins if other player has 5 or less medals
2. First to 9 automatically wins


That was my interpretation as well...
      
blindspot
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Re:Winning conditions Epic BattleLore Fri, 16 March 2007 21:31
Epic Rules state:


In Epic Adventures, the Victory banner count is usually set at 7 banners. The winning Camp must also hold a margin of at least 2 Victory banners over its opponent. Otherwise, the game continues until one Camp reaches 9 Victory banners.


ColtsFan76 wrote on Fri, 16 March 207 07:40

I would say it is this:
1. First to 7 wins if other player has 5 or less medals
2. First to 9 automatically wins


Okay, I see it now. I did interpret it incorrectly. An 8-6 score isn't possible then. I think I disagree with the rule then. Seems an unnecessary prolongation to me. It means that in a 6-5 game the player with the five points must either lose for not scoring next or be forced to score another 4 points to win the game. That seems harsh to me.

[Updated on: Fri, 16 March 2007 21:54]

      
taliesinbard
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Re:Winning conditions Epic BattleLore Sat, 17 March 2007 13:52
[quote title=blindspot wrote on Fri, 16 March 2007 15:31]
Epic Rules state:


An 8-6 score isn't possible then.


I'd hate to prolong this discussion, but the rules seem quite clear to me (at least the english version):
"the Victory banner count is usually set a 7 banners. The winning Camp must also hold a margin of at least 2 Victory banners over its opponent. Otherwise, the game continues until one Camp reaches 9 Victory banners."

So it's possible to win in the following combinations:


Winner: 7 Loser: <= 5
Winner: 8 Loser: <= 6
Winner: 9 Loser: Any number

This is just how games with this type of victory work.

So, if you get to 7 banners, and the oppenent is close, you need to get the next banner kill otherwise your opponent will have a chance to be victorious.

Basically, you MUST win by 2 (otherwise it's too close for one army to lose enough morale to retreat) to receive a decisive victory, otherwise the game will end at 9 in a marginal victory.

Of course, you own the game, so play however you want... just be consistant.

[Updated on: Sat, 17 March 2007 13:59]

      
ColtsFan76
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Re:Winning conditions Epic BattleLore Sat, 17 March 2007 19:43
The rule is poorly written. I keep going back and forth.

Taken literally, it says first to 7 wins. BUT you must also have 2 more medals in order for the 7 medals to count. If you don't, then you must get 9 to win.

The 2nd sentance is not stating a 2nd way to win - it is qualifying the 1st condition. Then the 3rd sentance outlines the 2nd and final way to win.

Of course, common sense says it is first to 7. Must win by 2 points. So as soon as you reach 7 AND have more than 2, you are the winner. And so the game doesn't go on indefeintely, the first to reach 9 is the winner regardless. If this is what they meant, what we originally interpretted, then they did a poor job of explaining it clearly.
      
Talespinner
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Re:Winning conditions Epic BattleLore Sun, 18 March 2007 02:17
ColtsFan76 wrote on Sat, 17 March 2007 14:43

The rule is poorly written. . . Of course, common sense says it is first to 7. Must win by 2 points. So as soon as you reach 7 AND have more than 2, you are the winner. And so the game doesn't go on indefeintely, the first to reach 9 is the winner regardless. If this is what they meant, what we originally interpretted, then they did a poor job of explaining it clearly.


I have just been playing under the original interpretation mentioned above. My thinking was that either one army won authoritatively right away or the battle prolonged into a blood bath. It has not made too much of a difference in any of the Epic games I have played so far, they have all been either 7-3 wins or 9-8 wins, which reinforces my thinking on the scenario.

I am making the assumption that when the book is actually printed for Epic, the scenarios will be better worded and have some appropriate fluff.
      
RBorg
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Re:Winning conditions Epic BattleLore Mon, 19 March 2007 03:11
the Victory banner count is usually set a 7 banners. The winning Camp must also hold a margin of at least 2 Victory banners over its opponent. Otherwise, the game continues until one Camp reaches 9 Victory banners."

So it's possible to win in the following combinations:

Winner: 7 Loser: <= 5
Winner: 8 Loser: <= 6
Winner: 9 Loser: Any number

This is just how games with this type of victory work.

So, if you get to 7 banners, and the oppenent is close, you need to get the next banner kill otherwise your opponent will have a chance to be victorious.

Basically, you MUST win by 2 (otherwise it's too close for one army to lose enough morale to retreat) to receive a decisive victory, otherwise the game will end at 9 in a marginal victory.

Of course, you own the game, so play however you want... just be consistant.

(RB) This is how we have been playing...
Richard Borg

[Updated on: Mon, 19 March 2007 03:12]

      
dbc-
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Re:Winning conditions Epic BattleLore Mon, 19 March 2007 20:39
RBorg wrote on Mon, 19 March 2007 03:11

(RB) This is how we have been playing...
Richard Borg



Well, then that's how I'll be playing too Smile
      
The_One_Zodiac
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Re:Winning conditions Epic BattleLore Mon, 19 March 2007 21:02
Thanx for the rules clarification, Richard.

Hate to drag this out even more. Just have a couple of comments:
After first read-through of the rules, the "second" Victory Condition (VC) (Winner: 8, Looser: 6) seemed somewhat unclear.
And after reading the VCs in the epic adventures (#2-5), I was sure the second VC was not an option. "Quick Kill 7 win by 2 or first camp to 9." As Talespinner said, I assume this will be clarified in the printed version.

Great game, though! Looking forward to the expansions.
Keep up the good work! Smile

[Updated on: Tue, 20 March 2007 10:58]

      
Black Barney
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Re:Winning conditions Epic BattleLore Mon, 19 March 2007 21:30
They should add another win condition to Epic BattleLore:

-When one of the Field Marshalls has not commanded a single unit for over 30 minutes and is bored out of his mind, he may either call the game a draw (and go watch some TV) or he may execute his Field Commander and take control of the Center units as well as his neglected Wing.
      
blindspot
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Re:Winning conditions Epic BattleLore Mon, 19 March 2007 22:02
Black Barney wrote on Mon, 19 March 2007 13:30

They should add another win condition to Epic BattleLore:

-When one of the Field Marshalls has not commanded a single unit for over 30 minutes and is bored out of his mind, he may either call the game a draw (and go watch some TV) or he may execute his Field Commander and take control of the Center units as well as his neglected Wing.


That topic is being discussed in a different thread: http://www.daysofwonder.com/index.php?t=msg&th=10667& ;start=0&rid=196921&S=77cf8a8e67588d8b05bb1089febef5 c4
      
    
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