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blindspot
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  How to Run a Proper BattleLore Tournament? Mon, 23 April 2007 18:33
My local FLGS wants to host a BattleLore tournament, but they have no idea how to do it. I'm a big fan of the game and am offering to take the lead for them.

So how do I run a proper BattleLore tournament?

Has DoW published anything official about it?
How are successful tournaments being hosted?
Where can I find out more?
      
MarkoPolo
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Re:How to Run a Proper BattleLore Tournament? Mon, 23 April 2007 19:16
Thanks for the offer to help run an event at your local FLGS. We have not published any tournament rules or guidance as of yet because at this point we're still focusing on teaching the game and expanding the base of players at stores, rather than competitions.

We do have an Epic BattleLore demo program that your store can participate in. That gives them the items they need to run an Epic BattleLore Event, which we think is a great way new players interested as well as have experienced players get into the Epic Battles with two boards and 2-6 players in the same game.

If you and the store are interested in an Epic BattleLore Event, send me private email and I can give you more details on what it takes to participate.
      
blindspot
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Re:How to Run a Proper BattleLore Tournament? Fri, 25 May 2007 17:09
In light of recent calls for "officialness" by a particularly vocal group of users, I'd like to revive this thread to discuss how best to run a BattleLore tournament. Since DoW has not published any tournament rules, I would like to hear your ideas on what rules you would implement for a tournament. This should not be about what's broken, but about constructive proposals for tournament rules. There are other threads for talking about brokenness.

My hope is that we can gain some consensus and maybe cobble something together that would be acceptable for use in hosting a real player vs player tournament.

Any thoughts or proposals?
      
ColtsFan76
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Re:How to Run a Proper BattleLore Tournament? Fri, 25 May 2007 18:07
All I can offer is to look at DOW's rules for Memoir 44 and see if they can be applied here. With Epic and Call to Arms though, it will be sufficiently different.

But if you want to stick to the base game, I would suggest to follow the "Camps" method where everyone is divided into Standard or Pennant camp. No matter how many players you have, divide them as evenly as possible. Have a handful of scenarios where everyone plays plays someone from the opposite camp at least once (Standard players always play standard bearers regardless of the scenario - and no flipping). The number of times the same scenario is played should be about equal. You then rank each person in each camp and take the best X amount of players for a final bracket style playoff to determine the final winner. In the playoffs, each pair plays a scenario twice, once as each camp.

The other option is just a series of match plays. Take X amount of the best playhers to put in a playoff bracket.

Either way should give everyone a chance to play a few games before getting eliminated in the brackets.
      
Vetinari
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Re:How to Run a Proper BattleLore Tournament? Fri, 25 May 2007 18:10
My first question is, what kind of timeframe are you planning on? Six to Eight hours? Multi-day/week?

Off the top of my head, for a single-day tourny (at a con or something) I would suggest some sort of Swiss/Round robin beginning. Opponents paired up and given 60 or 90 minutes to play. Players get one point for each banner they capture plus 2 points if they win before time is called. Balanced scenarios (based on reports at DOW) should be chosen. Players flip a coin. Winner chooses a side or to go first, then loser goes first or chooses a side (regardless of scenario definition of who goes first). Finish the full turn when time is called if the match isn't over. Top 2 or 4 play single elimination after enough preliminary rounds have been played. In single elimination, play till one side wins regardless of time, or after time is called play until one side is ahead by at least one banner at the end for a full round. (This could also be used for a single elimination tourney, but I think most people would prefer to play multiple rounds rather than be knocked out after 1).

If you want to play with unbalanced scenarios, then players could bid Lore to determine who gets to choose which side they want. Whoever bids the highest lore takes the side of their choice and their opponent takes that many extra lore in their starting lore pool.

That's just off the top of my head. No promises that this would work well.

[Updated on: Fri, 25 May 2007 18:12]

      
unihead
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Re:How to Run a Proper BattleLore Tournament? Sat, 26 May 2007 05:35
Thre are some posters you can use in the Guild > Downloads section of www.battleloremaster.com, by the way.
      
Vetinari
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Re:How to Run a Proper BattleLore Tournament? Mon, 28 May 2007 04:29
Another thought, instead of bidding lore to choose sides, the players could bid war counsel levels. First player bids (0,1,2, whatever) then the other player must outbid or pass. When someone passes, the last bidder gets to chose their side and the other player gets that many additional levels to add to their war counsel. Or you could mix, with (completely off the top of my head) 5 lore being worth one level. So if the winning bid is 7 then the opponent could take extra 7 lore to start or 2 lore and an additional counsel level. Again, untested brainstorming here. No promises this works.
      
yangtze
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Re:How to Run a Proper BattleLore Tournament? Mon, 28 May 2007 20:47
Now that we have CtA it's the only way I'd want to play a tournament. You can use it with the camps idea as per M44 tournament, or people could play others in their group to see who goes through to a semi-final/ the next round. This could be match-play, or 1-off games, which are likely to be more balanced than a lot of scenarios. Randomise maps from all of the official maps available so far and retain geographical victory objectives (e.g. capture the bridge). Dice for ends and army.
      
Zeal
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Re:How to Run a Proper BattleLore Tournament? Tue, 29 May 2007 17:34
Vetinari wrote on Sun, 27 May 2007 20:29

Another thought, instead of bidding lore to choose sides, the players could bid war counsel levels. First player bids (0,1,2, whatever) then the other player must outbid or pass. When someone passes, the last bidder gets to chose their side and the other player gets that many additional levels to add to their war counsel. Or you could mix, with (completely off the top of my head) 5 lore being worth one level. So if the winning bid is 7 then the opponent could take extra 7 lore to start or 2 lore and an additional counsel level. Again, untested brainstorming here. No promises this works.



How about we bid Feudal tokens? Not doing much anyway, and that shows how confident you are by taking whatever Tom Dick and Harry troops are left over to defeat your opponent.
      
Vetinari
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Re:How to Run a Proper BattleLore Tournament? Tue, 29 May 2007 18:09
yangtze wrote on Mon, 28 May 2007 14:47

Now that we have CtA it's the only way I'd want to play a tournament. You can use it with the camps idea as per M44 tournament, or people could play others in their group to see who goes through to a semi-final/ the next round. This could be match-play, or 1-off games, which are likely to be more balanced than a lot of scenarios. Randomise maps from all of the official maps available so far and retain geographical victory objectives (e.g. capture the bridge). Dice for ends and army.


Haven't tried CtA yet, but bidding Lore would be a simple way to choose sides on the map. That way the tournament organizers don't have to agonize about whether the maps they choose are perfectly balanced and nobody can complain that they had to start on the "bad" side of the map.
      
yangtze
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Re:How to Run a Proper BattleLore Tournament? Tue, 29 May 2007 18:57
True enough - that would be the best way for one-off games.
      
tkostek
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Re:How to Run a Proper BattleLore Tournament? Sat, 05 January 2008 07:19
An idea I found some time back for running a Battle Cry tournament dealt with the imbalance issue. You pick one scenario, and every game is that scenario. Each person is assigned to one side or the other (pennant or std) and they always take that side. 1 pt per flag plus 2 for a victory.

In effect it's like having 2 simultaneous tournaments. After 3 rounds, everyone has played three different opponents. This gives you two winners or finalists: one from the pennant side and one from the standard side. You could either have two winners or else have a sudden death match.

Except for the sudden death match, this fixes all the imbalance problems. You are only comparing yourself against people who had exactly the same set-up you had: same battle, same side.
      
Caboose
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Re:How to Run a Proper BattleLore Tournament? Mon, 07 January 2008 13:04
That is definitely one way of doing the tourny. But hopefully it is a scenario that is pretty balanced as well. Since I think everyone would like to win - and if it is sided more to 1 side than the other, some people might try to look for the winning combo (i.e. analysis by paralysis).

Also it might be nice to know what scenarios DoW have used in the past as well.

Of course, getting data from people who have played the scenarios does help to determine the "balanceness" of the scenario. And thus entering that information in the battle report for the scenario does help.

Cab
      
    
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