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constant-whiner
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Posts: 58
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February 2007
variant: non-critical-hit monsters Mon, 02 July 2007 13:08
Rationale and audience: many people already feel that the luck factor in BL is too high. So removing the critical-hit feature of monsters should produce a more satisfying experience.

Straw that broke the camel's back: a game I played with my brother where his EE wouldn't die and where my HG was slain IMMEDIATELY by a human, non-longbow, green archer.

Implementation: it is easy to see that if one wanted to implement monsters without the critical hit feature they'd need to have a strength of six. I don't have time to post the mathematical proof but if too many people doubt me, I grudgingly will. So, the implementation is obvious: use a d6 as a counter: either on board, next to the monster, or out of the board on top of the monster's token.

Unbalancing potential: maybe this variant will unbalance the game with respect to healing spells if it is found that under certain WC configurations, there are enough healing spells to effectively guarantee that monsters never or very seldom die. I haven't done the math there.

Obvious remedy: do not allow healing for monsters.

[Updated on: Mon, 02 July 2007 15:43]

      
céro
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June 2004
Re:variant: non-critical-hit monsters Mon, 02 July 2007 13:54
constant-whiner schrieb am Mon, 02 July 2007 13:08

Straw that broke the camel's back: a game I played with my brother where his EE wouldn't die and where my HG was slain IMMEDIATELY by a human, non-longbow, green archer.

Probably everybody playing with creatures has made similar experiences - I think this is part of the game - There are choices to be made: Do I want a creature instead of 1 master level token spent on another master... it's risky, it may be decisive, it may be wasted - in either way (spent on a master or on a creature).
To me it's part of the fun not knowing in advance what I might expect exactly from the creatures, and also makes me handle them very carefully despite of their great powers. It's a risk I know and accept BEFORE I use a creature!
Giving them a strength of 6 makes them more predictable and less annoying...

I really see your point as i usually loose my creatures the first time they are attacked (usually by a green unit) - but I like the "lucky strike"-element in this part of the game.
      
stjaybay
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Posts: 25
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April 2005
Re:variant: non-critical-hit monsters Mon, 02 July 2007 15:37
hmm a good variant but why not make them exactly like a four unit I think making them six is way too powerful but I agree something has to be done about the critical hit usually a creature ends up being more of a liabiliy than an asset.
      
stjaybay
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April 2005
Re:variant: non-critical-hit monsters Mon, 02 July 2007 16:05
Also if you don't mind I would like to see those calculations
      
toddrew
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October 2006
Re:variant: non-critical-hit monsters Mon, 02 July 2007 17:30
stjaybay wrote on Mon, 02 July 2007 07:05

Also if you don't mind I would like to see those calculations


I think the rigorous math proof to which he was alluding to boils down to this: One would expect that for every six hits a creature takes, one of them will result in a critical hit.

But which one?? the first?, the fourth?, the sixth? the fourtieth? I like this part of the game, and wouldn't change it, but as with other aspects of BL, certainly see why others would. With constant-whiner's rule, it would always be the sixth hit.

The way it plays out now, the best (combo of no risk from bb and high probability) way to take out a creature (aside from a level 3 Fireball) is with some combo of magic missiles, take aim/eagle eye, and archers (preferrably crossbows or longbows). The second best option is a red banner beefed up with some attack bonuses. With constant-whiner's rule, whittling away will definitely work - not such a good practice in the game now, with the creatures as is.

EDIT: for clarity

[Updated on: Mon, 02 July 2007 19:49]

      
constant-whiner
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Posts: 58
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February 2007
Re:variant: non-critical-hit monsters Mon, 02 July 2007 18:03
toddrew wrote on Mon, 02 July 2007 11:30

stjaybay wrote on Mon, 02 July 2007 07:05

Also if you don't mind I would like to see those calculations


I think the rigorous math proof to which he was alluding to boils down to this: One would expect that for every six hits a creature takes, one of them will result in a critical hit.




I confirm that the proof and its reasoning is along the above lines.
      
enickson
Junior Member

Posts: 5
Registered:
June 2007
Re:variant: non-critical-hit monsters Fri, 20 July 2007 02:22
My play group also think that the luck/random factor of the game is too high. We are currently experimenting with changes to monsters. We currently play where they take 1 critical hit to wound. The next normal hit then kills them? We had thought of maybe 2 critical hits but we think the probability is too high.

      
toddrew
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October 2006
Re:variant: non-critical-hit monsters Fri, 20 July 2007 08:39
enickson wrote on Thu, 19 July 2007 17:22

My play group also think that the luck/random factor of the game is too high. We are currently experimenting with changes to monsters. We currently play where they take 1 critical hit to wound. The next normal hit then kills them? We had thought of maybe 2 critical hits but we think the probability is too high.




I don't suggest this, as I think the critical hit mechanic is fun and balanced, a good risk/reward and reflective of how monstrous creatures usually are taking down in works of fantasy - a swift miraculous blow - but, if removing the nature of how that plays out in BL games is one's goal, I think constant-whiner's six hit method is the way to go. Creatures can take big hits and still live another turn or two, but in return are also more susceptible to being whittled away at by archers and lesser blows.

[Updated on: Fri, 20 July 2007 08:40]

      
DrSpunj
Junior Member

Posts: 26
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January 2007
  Re:variant: non-critical-hit monsters Fri, 20 July 2007 17:21
To keep some of the luck nature of the critical hit system, you could combine the 6 HP with it.

Whenever a creature takes a hit, they lose 1 HP. Either on all hits or maybe just on banner color hits, they are rerolled and any banner color hits cause another 1 HP loss.

This way the creature still has the 6 HP staying power, but some lucky strikes can whittle them down faster (though not likely in one attack, even with a lore-buffed red unit).

Thanks.
      
jdw1710
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November 2006
Re:variant: non-critical-hit monsters Fri, 20 July 2007 21:17
I guess the 6 HP would give the creature some staying power to avoid a totally lucky hit, although two or three attack rounds could eliminate a creature with good attack rolls. Personally I kind of like the critical hit idea as it gives the creature the feel of near involunability, even though you have 1 in 36 chance to kill the monster.

Just my 2 cents worth
      
Zeal
Senior Member
Second Lieutenant

Posts: 214
Registered:
December 2006
Re:variant: non-critical-hit monsters Fri, 20 July 2007 21:46


I go back and forth on this (depending if it was my monster or not Rolling Eyes )but I was thinking just making them immune to missile weapons.
      
    
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