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drew8
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Who goes first? Tue, 26 June 2007 05:20
Who goes first? The rules clearly state that it's the player to the left of the emperor. I took this to mean the player controlling the next Colosseum clockwise around the board, i.e. the direction that the emperor travels. A couple of entries on the geek indicate that the game designer has posted on a German thread that instead it should be the Colosseum that the emperor just passed, describing this as to the left as though you were sitting in the pool in the middle. Any of this hold water?
      
ColtsFan76
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Re:Who goes first? Tue, 26 June 2007 05:42
When I read this in the rules, I was a bit baffled as well. Clearly, "left" can be either of the two directions depending on your orientation.

I took at as this: When sitting on the edge of the board closest to the emperor, looking at the board in this position should be the "left" that you use to determine the start player.

My reason for this is that players sit on the edge of the board, not the middle. So taking it as the left while sitting in the pond is a bit preposterous as hopefully, none of the players are sitting on the board.

Second, the dignitaries travel in a clockwise direction. The first player is the first person that the emperor could conceivable visit. And ideally, he would make his way around the whole track visiting each person at least once; he at least always has the ability to progress to the next player up.

And finally, when you place the emperor in his starting resting spot, there is a tiny little arrow indicating the direction of the emperor's travels. This is also a convenient little reminder that he is pointing to the first player.

[Updated on: Tue, 26 June 2007 05:46]

      
atefec
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August 2005
Re:Who goes first? Tue, 26 June 2007 07:44
drew8 schrieb am Tue, 26 June 2007 05:20

Who goes first? The rules clearly state that it's the player to the left of the emperor. I took this to mean the player controlling the next Colosseum clockwise around the board, i.e. the direction that the emperor travels. A couple of entries on the geek indicate that the game designer has posted on a German thread that instead it should be the Colosseum that the emperor just passed, describing this as to the left as though you were sitting in the pool in the middle. Any of this hold water?

The rules book is really unclear about this point. You are right, Wolfgang Kramer wrote in a german forum and in the Colosseum FAQ on his website, that the start player is in fact NOT the player sitting left (clockwise) to the emperor. Instead that player starts the game, whose arena has the marking "3/4/5" and is next to number 40 of the spectator scoring track (on the outside of the board).

In consequence the player who goes first can not move the emperor to his arena in the first round (unless he manages to get an emperor medal with his first dice roll).
Here's the link to the discussion on BGG: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/161672

If the assertion of Wolfgang Kramer is correct (ok, he's the author, so he should know how to play the game...) the rules book is wrong and DOW really should revise the online version soon!


@ DOW: It would be great if Wolfgang Kramer's FAQ and an english translation of it could be published as official FAQ on the Colosseum Website!

[Updated on: Mon, 02 July 2007 08:25]

      
Caboose
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Re:Who goes first? Sat, 30 June 2007 02:45
Agreed, it would be nice to have that English translation.

Also, going to the BGG forum using that link and then translating to German the link that is there, there is nothing in German posted by Wolfgang about the first person cannot move the emperor to his arena AND getting a medal due to this. (Since you can move the other nobles and thus get a medal for them)

Obviously if the first person is the one near the 40, obviously he/she won't be able to get the emperor to his arena, but I've yet to find a post from Wolfgang that I can see that due to this, the first person gets a medal due to not being able to move the emperor into his/her arena.
      
drew8
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Re:Who goes first? Mon, 02 July 2007 02:56
I think you misunderstood atefec, caboose. He's just pointing out that if the first person is the one near the 40, the only way for her to get the emperor into her colosseum on the first turn is to get an emperor's medal during the dice roll for noble movement and use it to move the emperor backwards. I think if you substituted the word "unless" for the (mispelled) word "exept" in atefec's post, it would be clearer.

Not trying to put words in your mouth, atefec, but that's what I thought you were saying.

So how do we get a DOW person to look into this and make an official ruling?

[Updated on: Mon, 02 July 2007 02:57]

      
atefec
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Re:Who goes first? Mon, 02 July 2007 07:44
drew8 schrieb am Mon, 02 July 2007 02:56

I think if you substituted the word "unless" for the (mispelled) word "exept" in atefec's post, it would be clearer.
Not trying to put words in your mouth, atefec, but that's what I thought you were saying.

Thanks for you help, drew8, my english is not that good, I used the wrong expression Embarassed I have corrected this...

Quote:

I think you misunderstood atefec, caboose. He's just pointing out that if the first person is the one near the 40, the only way for her to get the emperor into her colosseum on the first turn is to get an emperor's medal during the dice roll for noble movement and use it to move the emperor backwards.

Exactly what I tried to say Surprised

I wrote an email to Claudia from DOW last week. She told me that Wolfgang Kramer's FAQ will be published as official FAQ on the site soon. They will also work on a translation of the FAQ from german to english, so everybody has the chance to read it Thumbs Up
Keep in mind that the translation will take some time, they want to do it properly (better than me...)

[Updated on: Mon, 02 July 2007 07:50]

      
ColtsFan76
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Re:Who goes first? Mon, 02 July 2007 17:27
What is the logic in making the person "behind" the emperor (near the 40 as you mentioned) the starting player vs. the one in "front" of the emperor?
      
atefec
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Re:Who goes first? Tue, 03 July 2007 13:13
ColtsFan76 schrieb am Mon, 02 July 2007 17:27

What is the logic in making the person "behind" the emperor (near the 40 as you mentioned) the starting player vs. the one in "front" of the emperor?

I don't know... Perhaps it is a part of the game balancing that the first player should not be able to move the emperor into his arena with his first dice roll. That's how I interpret the explanation of Wolfgang Kramer in the german "spielbox"-forum.
For those who can read german, here's the link:

http://www.spielbox.de/phorum4/read.php4?f=1&i=167962&am p;t=167840&
      
ColtsFan76
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Re:Who goes first? Tue, 03 July 2007 13:26
atefec wrote on Tue, 03 July 2007 06:13

ColtsFan76 schrieb am Mon, 02 July 2007 17:27

What is the logic in making the person "behind" the emperor (near the 40 as you mentioned) the starting player vs. the one in "front" of the emperor?

I don't know... Perhaps it is a part of the game balancing that the first player should not be able to move the emperor into his arena with his first dice roll. That's how I interpret the explanation of Wolfgang Kramer in the german "spielbox"-forum.
For those who can read german, here's the link:

http://www.spielbox.de/phorum4/read.php4?f=1&i=167962&am p;am p;t=167840&

Thanks for the link but I took Spanish in high school!

I am just trying to figure it out because the 2nd player (who should actually be first according to the English rules), would still get to move the Emperor in. I don't know, it just doesn't make sense to me.

I really wish DOW would weigh in.
      
drew8
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Re:Who goes first? Thu, 05 July 2007 23:25
Yeah, I don't understand the logic behind the first player needing to be the player before vs. after the emperor either. That will be interesting to read about in the FAQ.
      
ColtsFan76
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Re:Who goes first? Fri, 06 July 2007 01:59
The only thing I can think of is that the advantage of going first is offset by giving the 2nd player the first opportunity to get the emperor. So be go first, you probably won't get the Emperor to visit until the start of the 2nd round. That makes some sense to me.

Plus, looking at the board more, the suggested start spot (near the 40) is the only place where there is alwaya a Colosseum, no matter if it is a 3- 4-, or 5-player game. Based on that, that will be a better visual reminder than using the Emperor as my cue. DOW could have done us a favor and put a Star symbol there or something! Smile
      
atefec
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Re:Who goes first? Fri, 06 July 2007 07:36
ColtsFan76 schrieb am Fri, 06 July 2007 01:59

Plus, looking at the board more, the suggested start spot (near the 40) is the only place where there is alwaya a Colosseum, no matter if it is a 3- 4-, or 5-player game. Based on that, that will be a better visual reminder than using the Emperor as my cue. DOW could have done us a favor and put a Star symbol there or something! Smile


Thumbs Up Well spotted, ColtsFan76, indeed there is only one arena with the marking "3/4/5". So the player with this arena must be the one to go first.

Quote:

DOW could have done us a favor and put a Star symbol there or something! Smile

I agree, an extra symbol would make things a lot easier!

[Updated on: Fri, 06 July 2007 07:38]

      
ColtsFan76
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Re:Who goes first? Wed, 18 July 2007 13:37
Here is an interesting twist to the story:

This question was posted on boardgamegeek.com. Of course the Americans jumped in and stated it is the first colosseum clockwise from the emperor's position (as we did above). And those who spoke german jumped in with Wolfgang's response. Being fed up with it, I emailed Eric directly yesterday. I got this response back from Pierre:

Quote:

Hello Brian,

Eric is on vacation and suggested I respond to your question.

The starting player is as you understood it, is the player clockwise
after the emperor.
Wolfgang has suggested otherwise on a specific forum, however the rule
is what we agreed upon at the time. I suggest we stick with the
official
printed rule. I also suggested it to Wolfgang who agreed.

Best regards,

Pierre


So as happens periodically, DOW as the owner of the rights to the game has overruled the designer. The "official" start player is the one clockwise from the emperor. The designer's "variant" will be the person counter-clockwise.
      
atefec
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Re:Who goes first? Thu, 19 July 2007 08:07
ColtsFan76 wrote on Wed, 18 July 2007 13:37

So as happens periodically, DOW as the owner of the rights to the game has overruled the designer. The "official" start player is the one clockwise from the emperor. The designer's "variant" will be the person counter-clockwise.

Very interesting news, Coltsfan, thanks for sharing! Claudia from DOW wrote in an email to me two weeks ago that in fact the player with the arena 3/4/5 is the starting player, because this arena is unique and has to be used in every game. Seems to me, that DOW themselves are not in agreement about the correct way of playing Rolling Eyes

So let's wait until the official FAQ will be released. Until then our group will play it according to Wolfgang Kramer's FAQ. He is the one who designed the game, so he should be the one who knows how to play it Wink

[Updated on: Thu, 19 July 2007 08:34]

      
Pierre
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Re:Who goes first? Wed, 01 August 2007 10:05
Hello Everyone,

Wolfgang Kramer had indeed published a "house rule" proposing that the starting player is the player whose arena is situated on the 3/4/5 space.Wolfgang is trying to respond dynamically to players' request or comment.

The official rules states that the starting player is the player that has the arena left to the emperor. This official rule was, of course, a Wolfgang Kramer rule. That is the reason it was printed.

Both rules work, however to avoid any confusion we are sticking with the printed rule.So the official rule stays, and Wolfgang Kramer has agreed to it of course.

Consider this to be an official DoW statement.

Best regards,


      
atefec
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Re:Who goes first? Thu, 02 August 2007 07:39
Pierre schrieb am Wed, 01 August 2007 10:05

Consider this to be an official DoW statement.

Best regards,


Thanks a lot, Pierre! An official statement was what we were looking for! Thumbs Up

Our group likes Wolfgang's house rule, so we will continue to use the 3/4/5 arena for the starting player. But it's good to know the correct interpretation of the rules.
      
    
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