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Franck
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Call to Arms rules available for download Fri, 13 April 2007 19:20
The subject tells it all!

http://static.battlelore.com/lang/english/images/bl_ctoa_cover.jpg


You can download them from here:

http://www.battlelore.com/?t=content&sub=call-to-arms

Enjoy!
      
ColtsFan76
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Re:Call to Arms rules available for download Fri, 13 April 2007 20:49
sweet, thanks. Now I can truly blow off the rest of the afternoon and read this!
      
Jude
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Re:Call to Arms rules available for download Sat, 14 April 2007 13:39
Cool. I was about to try coming up with my own deployment rules (other than the old standby of putting a box lid up between the sides of the board and setting up secretly but using the units--and terrain set up--agreed upon ahead of time), so I am happy to see this.

...Although I will probably have some questions as soon as I get a chance to reread the rules...

I will definitely get the Call to Arms and Dwarven expansions.

Any chance of being able to buy replacement decks for the game? I put my cards in slip sleeves (which makes them shiny and slippery!), but I'll bet that other people's decks are starting to show some wear by now!

Anyone notice that the website was all glitchy last night? It took forever to load and then only loaded text with no images.

Jude
      
Jude
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Re:Call to Arms rules available for download Mon, 16 April 2007 13:22
Yep, I do have some questions. Wink

1. If two cliff hexsides are adjacent (face-toface) to each other, are they still considered an obstacle to movement (like a ravine)? If so, I assume that units cannot melee across the hexsides, either.
Similarly, if a cliff hexside is abutting an elevated terrain hill hex, so that both are of the same height, is it still an obstacle to movement and melee (also like a ravine)?
In both of these cases, may I assume that Line of Sight form ranged weapons is NOT obstructed since all terrain hexes are on the same height and contiguent, and the "ravine" would not be higher than the elevated terrain that the units are on? Or do "ravines" block line of sight in these cases?


2. Since any Ranged Foot unit in an Archers Stakes hex may ignore one retreat flag and is considered to be Bold, can it also battle back in melee if it remains in the hex?


3. When replacing a Feudal Levy Token, does only color matter (equal or lower), meaning that any type of unit (dwarven, goblinoid, calvary, melee infantry, ranged) can be placed? For example, there are no Red Foot soldiers left, so a Red token is placed. When it is time to replace that token, any unit of any color or species that has enough units and banners left, can be placed in that hex.


4. When playing a Specialist card that grants additional (or modified) figures or units, can Feudal Levy Token be used if the units aren't available, or are thoes units just not received (or modified)?


5. Just a comment about the Impromptu and Organized modes:
It seems possible to use the Specialist cards with the Impromptu mode for those who don't want to use Levies and multiple decks, and this seems like it might be a good option for those who want to use the new cards without the hassle of dealing with not having enough pieces.

Jude

[Updated on: Mon, 16 April 2007 15:20]

      
Jude
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Re:Call to Arms rules available for download Sun, 22 April 2007 22:10
Jude wrote on Mon, 16 April 2007 07:22

Yep, I do have some questions. Wink

1. If two cliff hexsides are adjacent (face-toface) to each other, are they still considered an obstacle to movement (like a ravine)? If so, I assume that units cannot melee across the hexsides, either.
Similarly, if a cliff hexside is abutting an elevated terrain hill hex, so that both are of the same height, is it still an obstacle to movement and melee (also like a ravine)?
In both of these cases, may I assume that Line of Sight form ranged weapons is NOT obstructed since all terrain hexes are on the same height and contiguent, and the "ravine" would not be higher than the elevated terrain that the units are on? Or do "ravines" block line of sight in these cases?


2. Since any Ranged Foot unit in an Archers Stakes hex may ignore one retreat flag and is considered to be Bold, can it also battle back in melee if it remains in the hex?


3. When replacing a Feudal Levy Token, does only color matter (equal or lower), meaning that any type of unit (dwarven, goblinoid, calvary, melee infantry, ranged) can be placed? For example, there are no Red Foot soldiers left, so a Red token is placed. When it is time to replace that token, any unit of any color or species that has enough units and banners left, can be placed in that hex.


4. When playing a Specialist card that grants additional (or modified) figures or units, can Feudal Levy Token be used if the units aren't available, or are thoes units just not received (or modified)?


5. Just a comment about the Impromptu and Organized modes:
It seems possible to use the Specialist cards with the Impromptu mode for those who don't want to use Levies and multiple decks, and this seems like it might be a good option for those who want to use the new cards without the hassle of dealing with not having enough pieces.

Jude


No reply? I hope the questions will be answered before the expansion is released....
      
cbs42
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Re:Call to Arms rules available for download Mon, 30 April 2007 20:52
I'm going to put my (completely unofficial) two cents in on some of these items, just for the heck of it.


Jude wrote

If two cliff hexsides are adjacent (face-toface) to each other, are they still considered an obstacle to movement (like a ravine)? If so, I assume that units cannot melee across the hexsides, either. Similarly, if a cliff hexside is abutting an elevated terrain hill hex, so that both are of the same height, is it still an obstacle to movement and melee (also like a ravine)?

Sounds right to me, based on the following quotes from page 11 of the rulebook: "The Cliff side(s) of a Cliff Terrain hex are impassable." and "A Unit may not Melee, nor fire at Point Blank across the Cliff side(s) of a hex."


Jude wrote

In both of these cases, may I assume that Line of Sight form ranged weapons is NOT obstructed since all terrain hexes are on the same height and contiguent, and the "ravine" would not be higher than the elevated terrain that the units are on? Or do "ravines" block line of sight in these cases?

As stated on page 11: "A Cliff Terrain hex blocks line of sight, except from contiguous Cliffs or other Elevated Terrain of the same height." Since the two cliff hexes in your example would be at the same height, there's no evidence to support that line of sight would be blocked.


Jude wrote

Since any Ranged Foot unit in an Archers Stakes hex may ignore one retreat flag and is considered to be Bold, can it also battle back in melee if it remains in the hex?

Nothing in the specific rules for the Archers Stakes indicates the prevention of battle back against an adjacent attacker. In general, it's safe to assume that as new rules are released, they will specify where they override the normal game rules. So we can assume that the normal play rules remain in effect, except where indicated by the new rules.


Jude wrote

When replacing a Feudal Levy Token, does only color matter (equal or lower), meaning that any type of unit (dwarven, goblinoid, calvary, melee infantry, ranged) can be placed?

Good question. No indications in the rules one way or another on this issue. I hope that the answer is yes, and that we will be able to substitute any type of normal (non-hero, non-creature, etc...) unit for the Levy token. It would help offset the pain of getting downgraded in power.


Jude wrote

When playing a Specialist card that grants additional (or modified) figures or units, can Feudal Levy Token be used if the units aren't available, or are thoes units just not received (or modified)?

I wouldn't be surprised to see this ruling go either way. Based on the rules alone, I would guess you simply don't get the additional units if they aren't available. The only evidence I have to support this conclusion is that the resolution of all Levy Tokens happens in step 4.4, but the Specialists aren't called in until step 4.6. Still, the ruling could go either way at this point.

[Updated on: Mon, 30 April 2007 20:57]

      
RBorg
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Re:Call to Arms rules available for download Sun, 06 May 2007 03:17
Q. If two cliff hexsides are adjacent (face-to-face) to each other, are they considered an obstacle to movement?

A. Yes

Q. If two cliff hexsides are adjacent (face-to-face) to each other, can units melee across the hexsides?

A. No

Q. If a cliff hexside is abutting an elevated terrain hill hex, so that both are of the same height, is it still an obstacle to movement?

A. Yes

Q. If a cliff hexside is abutting an elevated terrain hill hex, so that both are of the same height, can units melee across?

A. No

Q. Is Line of Sight from ranged weapons blocked if units are on the same height and on contiguous hill / cliff hexes?

A. Line of Sight is not blocked for range weapon attacks but point blank (range weapons in melee) is not possible.

Q. Since any Ranged Foot unit in an Archers Stakes hex may ignore one retreat flag and is considered to be Bold, can it also battle back in melee if it remains in the hex?

A. The Archer Stakes rule reads? "A Ranged Weapon Foot unit in an Archers Stakes hex may ignore one flag rolled against it and is Bold." The core rules state, if a unit can ignore a flag (the unit is Bold) it may battle back.

Q. When replacing a Feudal Levy Token, does only color matter (equal or lower)?

A. Yes, only color matters.
An additional note, like a player's reserve units, the unit that is replacing the Feudal Levy Token must be placed on a baseline hex (in the same section as the Feudal Levy Token) it is not placed in the hex of the Feudal Levy Token.

Q. When playing a Specialist card that grants additional (or modified) figures or units, can Feudal Levy Token be used?

A. No
Feudal Levy Tokens are used with deployment cards.


Comment - Just a comment about the Impromptu and Organized modes:
It seems possible to use the Specialist cards with the Impromptu mode for those who don't want to use Levies and multiple decks, and this seems like it might be a good option for those who want to use the new cards without the hassle of dealing with not having enough pieces. - Jude

We have found that Specialist cards will play equally well with Call to Arms Impromptu, Organized modes as well with any preset adventure.

Enjoy!
Richard Borg
      
Jude
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Re:Call to Arms rules available for download Sun, 06 May 2007 06:27
Thanks, Richard! That clears it up for me.

Jude
      
Jude
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Re:Call to Arms rules available for download Thu, 17 May 2007 05:56
A few more questions about Cliff terrain:


Do friendly units still support each other (as regards Bold Status) across a Cliff hexside? In other words, if one of my units is on a Cliff hex, would it still provide support to aanother of my unit(s) that was adjacent to it, but with a cliff hexside between them, whether the other unit was on elevated terrain or not?



Since enemy units cannot melee or fire point blank across a cliff hexside (according to Richard Borg's earlier answer:

Can a ranged unit next to an enemy unit across a cliff hexside still choose to fire a a different unit, since it cannot fire at the unit next to it because of the cliff hexside. (Normally, a ranged unit is forbidden to fire a ranged attack if there is an enemy adjacent for a point-blank melee opportunity, I believe).

Does a unit--adjacent to the cliff hexside but not on the Cliff hex, and on lower terrain than the cliff hex--block line of sight for a ranged unit on the Cliff hex trying to fire across the cliff hexside?




Also, a further clarification of a previous answer, please:

Quote:

Q. Is Line of Sight from ranged weapons blocked if units are on the same height and on contiguous hill / cliff hexes?
A. Line of Sight is not blocked for range weapon attacks but point blank (range weapons in melee) is not possible.


If both units are on contiguous hexes of the same height, but there is a cliff hexside between them, keeping them from meleeing or point blank firing, wouldn't it be like firing across a ravine, and therefore the ranged weapon could fire a ranged attack, and not melee (and therefore the defender could not battle back)?

I can understand this not working well if the two hexes are on different heights, but just shooting across a narrow ravine to the same height terrain should be possible, I think.


Jude
      
ColtsFan76
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Re:Call to Arms rules available for download Thu, 17 May 2007 13:47
Jude wrote on Wed, 16 May 2007 22:56

A few more questions about Cliff terrain:

I know you don't like my answers Jude because they aren't official. But I am going to take a stab at them anyway. I think it makes it easier for DOW to say yes, so and so has it correct or all of the answers but the first one are correct and here is the answer to the first one...

Quote:

Do friendly units still support each other (as regards Bold Status) across a Cliff hexside? In other words, if one of my units is on a Cliff hex, would it still provide support to aanother of my unit(s) that was adjacent to it, but with a cliff hexside between them, whether the other unit was on elevated terrain or not?

I would say yes because (so far) terrain hasn't effected the ability of a unit to give or receive support. Now this is the first time we are seeing terrain that is impassable on only a specific side(s) while the rest of the hex is passable. So there is the ptoential that impassability cuts support. But since DOW hasn't specifically said that it does, then it should be assumed that cliffs do not affect support until otherwise stated.

Quote:

Since enemy units cannot melee or fire point blank across a cliff hexside (according to Richard Borg's earlier answer:

Can a ranged unit next to an enemy unit across a cliff hexside still choose to fire a a different unit, since it cannot fire at the unit next to it because of the cliff hexside. (Normally, a ranged unit is forbidden to fire a ranged attack if there is an enemy adjacent for a point-blank melee opportunity, I believe).

The C&C tradition has been that a anytime an enemy unit is next to an attacking unit, the attacking unit must always close combat and can never target a further target through ranged combat, regardless if the adjacent enemy unit can be targetted. The closest example of this is Snipers in Memoir 44. They can only target Ifantry and Artillery. If an enemy tank is next to it, it cannot fire at a more distant legal target even though it can't legally target the tank anyway. So in the same sense, the ranged unit would have to move away from his current position in order to attack again.

Quote:

Does a unit--adjacent to the cliff hexside but not on the Cliff hex, and on lower terrain than the cliff hex--block line of sight for a ranged unit on the Cliff hex trying to fire across the cliff hexside?

Yes. From the extensive thread on elevated terrain, anything that blocks LOS still blocks LOS on elevated terrain (with the exception of other elevated terrain in certain cases).

All of these are valid questions and need official confirmation. But I trust DOW enough to say that they considered this and if cliffs impacted the game as you think they might, they would have posted the rules in CtA. Their silence tells me that everything is status quo and nothing has changed with the intorduction of cliffs (with the obvious exceptions of what have been stated already.)

Quote:

Also, a further clarification of a previous answer, please:

Quote:

Q. Is Line of Sight from ranged weapons blocked if units are on the same height and on contiguous hill / cliff hexes?
A. Line of Sight is not blocked for range weapon attacks but point blank (range weapons in melee) is not possible.


If both units are on contiguous hexes of the same height, but there is a cliff hexside between them, keeping them from meleeing or point blank firing, wouldn't it be like firing across a ravine, and therefore the ranged weapon could fire a ranged attack, and not melee (and therefore the defender could not battle back)?

I can understand this not working well if the two hexes are on different heights, but just shooting across a narrow ravine to the same height terrain should be possible, I think.


Jude

I agree with your sentiments. I would think it should be easy to fire across a narrow impassable ravine just as easy (if not easier) than a wide one. But it seems that all close combat, even involving ranged weapons will always be considered as melee and not ranged warfare. (Look at longbows which are also penalized for "melee" situations.)

I think from a design perspective, it is probably easier to make this a sharp distinction so that they reduce future questions about how things interact. It may sacrifice the common sense, or what we would expect, from a "real world" perspective. But treating all adjacent combat as close combat makes things crisper from a rules perspective.

[Updated on: Thu, 17 May 2007 13:51]

      
Jude
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Re:Call to Arms rules available for download Fri, 18 May 2007 00:18
ColtsFan76 wrote on Thu, 17 May 2007 07:47

Jude wrote on Wed, 16 May 2007 22:56

A few more questions about Cliff terrain:

I know you don't like my answers Jude because they aren't official. But I am going to take a stab at them anyway. I think it makes it easier for DOW to say yes, so and so has it correct or all of the answers but the first one are correct and here is the answer to the first one...



Not, true, ColtsFan76! I always appreciate it when you answer my questions, and I like hearing how other people interpret the rules, in any case. It is true that I also appreciate an official answer, though. Wink

In this case, I think you are probably right, keeping with other rulings about Battlelore and C&C rules, even though the answers go against "common sense" in some cases.

Jude

      
Jude
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Re:Call to Arms rules available for download Tue, 22 May 2007 22:15
Is Eric, Richard, or anyone else from DoW going to reply to this questions?:

Do friendly units still support each other (as regards Bold Status) across a Cliff hexside? In other words, if one of my units is on a Cliff hex, would it still provide support to aanother of my unit(s) that was adjacent to it, but with a cliff hexside between them, whether the other unit was on elevated terrain or not?



Since enemy units cannot melee or fire point blank across a cliff hexside (according to Richard Borg's earlier answer:

Can a ranged unit next to an enemy unit across a cliff hexside still choose to fire a a different unit, since it cannot fire at the unit next to it because of the cliff hexside. (Normally, a ranged unit is forbidden to fire a ranged attack if there is an enemy adjacent for a point-blank melee opportunity, I believe).

Does a unit--adjacent to the cliff hexside but not on the Cliff hex, and on lower terrain than the cliff hex--block line of sight for a ranged unit on the Cliff hex trying to fire across the cliff hexside?




Also, a further clarification of a previous answer, please:

Quote:

Q. Is Line of Sight from ranged weapons blocked if units are on the same height and on contiguous hill / cliff hexes?
A. Line of Sight is not blocked for range weapon attacks but point blank (range weapons in melee) is not possible.
(Unquote)

If both units are on contiguous hexes of the same height, but there is a cliff hexside between them, keeping them from meleeing or point blank firing, wouldn't it be like firing across a ravine, and therefore the ranged weapon could fire a ranged attack, and not melee (and therefore the defender could not battle back)?

I can understand this not working well if the two hexes are on different heights, but just shooting across a narrow ravine to the same height terrain should be possible, I think.


Jude
      
sdafilli
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  Re:Call to Arms rules available for download Wed, 13 June 2007 09:31
RBorg wrote on Sun, 06 May 2007 10:47



Q. Is Line of Sight from ranged weapons blocked if units are on the same height and on contiguous hill / cliff hexes?

A. Line of Sight is not blocked for range weapon attacks but point blank (range weapons in melee) is not possible.


That sounds crazy that ranged units can't attack across cliff edges to terrain of same height!! Do they just stare at each other, aim their arrows and can't release them? I can understand non-ranged units not being able to attack or battle back...but ranged?

Quote:


Q. When replacing a Feudal Levy Token, does only color matter (equal or lower)?

A. Yes, only color matters.
An additional note, like a player's reserve units, the unit that is replacing the Feudal Levy Token must be placed on a baseline hex (in the same section as the Feudal Levy Token) it is not placed in the hex of the Feudal Levy Token.


This might be a heavy price to pay (forced deployment of units to that section's baseline) just because not enough troop pieces have been supplied by DoW!!

What if opponent has 2 BL sets and has mixed all pieces together? Then there's definitely enough pieces and no need for feudal tokens.... but wait a minute... is that what you're suggesting- if you're not happy, go buy a 2nd set of BL?

Quote:

Q. When playing a Specialist card that grants additional (or modified) figures or units, can Feudal Levy Token be used?

A. No
Feudal Levy Tokens are used with deployment cards.



Once again what a price to pay for a shortage of pieces...but I won't be stressing so much with this rule given that one has a choice over which specialist cards to play Wink

Btw still no word from DoW on a lot of the questions raised on this thread (esp relating to the cliffs)

Sorry if any of these concerns have been clarified elsewhere Wink


[Updated on: Wed, 13 June 2007 09:40]

      
ColtsFan76
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Re:Call to Arms rules available for download Wed, 13 June 2007 13:26
sdafilli wrote on Wed, 13 June 2007 02:31

Quote:


Q. When replacing a Feudal Levy Token, does only color matter (equal or lower)?

A. Yes, only color matters.
An additional note, like a player's reserve units, the unit that is replacing the Feudal Levy Token must be placed on a baseline hex (in the same section as the Feudal Levy Token) it is not placed in the hex of the Feudal Levy Token.


This might be a heavy price to pay (forced deployment of units to that section's baseline) just because not enough troop pieces have been supplied by DoW!!

I am glad youpointed this out again. When I read it the first time, I quickly noted the "baseline" and thought it was referring to the "reserves" as just mentioned. I never caught that the replacement units for the levy tokens went on the baseline.

I reread the rules and it is not clear that thisis the case at all. Maybe you could jump to that conclusion based on the fact it is under the "Call the Reserve" section but it is not spelled out that way at all.

Quick summary under 4.4 Call the Reserve page 9

  1. If you were out-scouted, place 2 reserve units
  2. These reserve go on the baseline
  3. Replace levy tokens with appropriate units
  4. The other person ddoes steps 1through 3


1 deals exclusively with reserves. 2 clarifies only step 1 due to its placement on the list. 3 uses the word "replaces" specifically" and 4 strengthens this with the word "exchanges" This heavily implies that the token (which was specifically placed on the hex where the unit should have been on the deployment card) should be traded for the unit and placed on the hex not the baseline.

Here we go again with something that seems clear n the rulebook being overruled. I would rather see the expansions delayed another month or so so someone can proof-read the rules. Or better yet, let us do the proofing before you go to print! You did this with Pacific Theater and corrcted an error we found on the box in time. Why not let us do it with the rules?
      
sdafilli
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Re:Call to Arms rules available for download Wed, 13 June 2007 13:34
Yeah, I thought the rules were quite clear too... until RBorgs "clarification" !?! Rolling Eyes
      
toddrew
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Re:Call to Arms rules available for download Tue, 21 August 2007 16:24
Has the issue of support across an impassable cliff been ruled upon? I've been playing that it's not allowed, but think that it probably is as impassable seems to affect movement and attacks, but not adjacency?

Also another cliff question: I know ranged units may not attack across an adjacent impassable hex edge, but are they allowed to attack another unit that is in range? or, again, does the adjacency to the unit on the impassable cliff take precedence and the attacking unit not only would not be allowed to attack the cliff dweller, but also prevented from attacking any other unit that does not happen to be at an accessible point blank range?
      
    
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