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Phread
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Sun, 19 June 2011 07:29
sam1812 wrote on Sun, 19 June 2011 16:50

Congratulations, Geoff and Phread.

Out of curiosity, at the time of your promotion, how many wins, and how many losses, did each of you have as a Lt Colonel (A) against Cadets, and (B) in total?


It is impossible to easily analyse the results in terms of rank as the records don't show the rank at the time a game was played - it could be done but one would have to check the officer career of each opponent to confirm their rank at the time of each battle.


sam1812 wrote on Sun, 19 June 2011 16:50

One sign that a Cadet has been well trained might be his ability to defeat a Lt Colonel.


Any player winning a battle could be a sign of a good player. Equally it could be a sign of a lucky player.

When your opponent gets 50% more shots than you, and hits 50% more then you will almost always lose. Is your opponent more skilled, better trained or simply lucky?

Example
I just played both sides at Twin Villages and lost both battles.
Does that make me a poor player or unlucky?

In both battles my opponent was able to fire more shots and hit more often - suggesting he had better cards and dice.

As Axis with 4 cards against my 6 he still was able to fire 25% more shots than me. He played well and deserved his wins.

No matter how good you are if your opponent gets better, more useful cards, and rolls more hits you will probably lose. You probably aren't the weaker player just the more unlucky.

If you win with worse cards and dice you might be the better player or you might be the more lucky.

M44 allows for a luckier player to beat a more experienced player. That is why we play.

[Updated on: Sun, 19 June 2011 07:59]

      
sam1812
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Sun, 19 June 2011 07:51
Phread wrote on Sun, 19 June 2011 01:29

sam1812 wrote on Sun, 19 June 2011 16:50

One sign that a Cadet has been well trained might be his ability to defeat a Lt Colonel.

Any player winning a battle could be a sign of a good player. Equally it could be a sign of a lucky player.

You and Geoff both got promoted after losses, and in your case it was after 3 losses? That suggests the possibility that losses may be a factor.
      
Phread
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Sun, 19 June 2011 08:51
I don't think losses are a factor - I think that our promotions occured after a loss is a coincidence.

I have a theory which I have shared with gheintze about (one of) the missing factors. It is an unproven theory and not worth sharing.

I prefer that players have to work for their promotion. We have played a lot of games (and in my case lost a lot) since promotion to Lt Colonel and somewhere in those games are the secrets. As gheintze said not that we have made it to full colonel we are less interested in the why.

I have continued to lose since promotion to Colonel.
If people want to beat a colonel playing me may be your best opportunity. Laughing Laughing Laughing

I hope I won't be demoted. Laughing Laughing Laughing

[Updated on: Sun, 19 June 2011 08:53]

      
Erik Uitdebroeck
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Sun, 19 June 2011 10:29
Whooo-hoooo for P & G !!!
      
gheintze
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Sun, 19 June 2011 14:32
Thanks for the continued congratulations!

I had about 220 wins as a Lt. Colonel and I had played over 50 games against cadets.

Sorry, I don't have the exact numbers.

But as Phread speculates, I think that it has to do with winning every scenario from both sides as a Lt. Colonel and maybe something else. But since Phread and I both did that, I think that is part of it.

I had also recently managed to win every scenario twice in my career -- I had only won the Meat Grinder and SugarLoaf and Half Moon once as a Lt. Colonel earlier this week.

Geoff
      
SgtBob49
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Sun, 19 June 2011 15:49
Congratulations to Geoff and Phread on being the first two players to make it to the Colonel Rank. Well deserved! Keep up the good work!
      
Turboheizer
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Sun, 19 June 2011 17:43
I salute both of you for your outstanding performance, Sirs!

Can you confirm that you did NOT win every scenario thrice (i.e. twice since your poromotion to LtCol) so that we can exclude this being a possible requirement?
      
gheintze
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Sun, 19 June 2011 18:43
Thanks Bob, Erik, and Turbo for your congratulations! Much appreciated.

In order to save everyone the time of going through my record -- I will summarize the key points that I worked toward and my accomplishments.

As I said above, I'm not sure which of this (or if it's all of them) triggered the promotion. We'll have to rely on people who get promoted after only accomplishing some of them to figure all of that out.

1. Won every scenario from both sides while a Lt. Colonel.
2. Over 200 wins as a Lt. Colonel.
3. 20 victories for each side in each front (80 total victories) while a Lt. Colonel.
4. Won every scenario from both sides twice during my career.
5. Played over 50 games against over 30 different cadets while a Lt. Colonel.

I did not win every battle from both sides twice as a Lt. Colonel (I think that is Turbo's question).

Sorry, I can't offer more insight -- I probably accomplished too much in one area or another before the exact conditions were met.

Good luck to all -- I'll always be a willing opponent for any of you fine gentlemen.

Geoff

[Updated on: Sun, 19 June 2011 18:44]

      
Tabou
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Sun, 19 June 2011 19:52
Congrats !!! Sadly, it will take me a while since I will be away on vacation for 3 weeks. Perhaps by that point, Mem44 will be updated !

[Updated on: Sun, 19 June 2011 19:53]

      
eldonion
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Sun, 19 June 2011 22:23
You have my congratulations as well.

I'm still quite a number of games away from completing a new win in all of the various games but I'll keep on plugging away

Unfortunately as I return to sea in a few weeks I'll probably complete them by the end of the year upon my return.

If the requirements for the colonel are so time consuming then what an earth can it be for the next level!! Cool
      
gheintze
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Sun, 19 June 2011 23:36
Thanks Tabou and Eldonion,

Good luck in your travels and then in your quest for promotion!

Smile

Geoff
      
Phread
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Sun, 19 June 2011 23:56
gheintze wrote on Mon, 20 June 2011 09:36

Thanks Tabou and Eldonion,

Good luck in your travels and then in your quest for promotion!

Smile

Geoff


Ditto.

Thanks everyone for your good wishes.

I have to thank Geoff gheintze as it was his hint(s) that helped me earn the promotion.

Reread his posts if you are working towards promotion.

Phread
      
Grandviceroy
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Mon, 20 June 2011 02:13
200 official scenarios?


I count 42 so far....which is 84 if you stretch it so that each counts as two (one per side).

Where are the other 116 -- and how can i play them!
      
gheintze
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Mon, 20 June 2011 02:32
Sorry if I'm not clear. I won every scenario from both sides, but had over 200 victories overall as a Lt. Colonel -- including playing some scenarios multiple times.

Geoff
      
sam1812
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Mon, 20 June 2011 02:36
Grandviceroy wrote on Sun, 19 June 2011 20:13

200 official scenarios?

I count 42 so far....which is 84 if you stretch it so that each counts as two (one per side).

Where are the other 116 -- and how can i play them!

Not all of the Official scenarios have been posted to the Online version yet.
      
sbauer9
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Wed, 22 June 2011 01:14
Congratz to Geoff and Phread,

Having just read through the thread today and seeing you were already a Colonel Geoff made all your searching seem both amusing and compelling. I was expecting more details in the punchline but I guess the rest of us will have to fumble our way though.
      
gheintze
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Wed, 22 June 2011 03:26
sbauer9 wrote on Tue, 21 June 2011 19:14

Congratz to Geoff and Phread,

Having just read through the thread today and seeing you were already a Colonel Geoff made all your searching seem both amusing and compelling. I was expecting more details in the punchline but I guess the rest of us will have to fumble our way though.


Thanks!

I'm always happy to entertain. Very Happy

I wish that I knew exactly what I did to prompt the promotion, but the roadmap is all I can provide.

My personal belief is still that you need to win all 84 battles and play cadets. Perhaps more information could be gleaned if someone would analyze Phread's record as a Lt. Colonel. He seems to be more secretive than me... Wink

Geoff
      
Phread
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Wed, 22 June 2011 09:27
I don't have secrets. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

After Geoff's suggestion I ensured I won each scenario from both sides as a Lt. Col. I was already playing a lot of cadets.

The secret is for any promotion is play, play, play some more and win the crucial battles.

      
gheintze
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Wed, 22 June 2011 20:40
I wonder when they will release the hint for the next rank. I'd like to get a head start on it, like I did with Lt. Colonel. Laughing

It was a complete coincidence that i was working my way through the scenarios as a Lt. Colonel and it ended up being a requirement. Smile

I can't imagine how difficult these next promotions will be. I'm going to need to pony up for more GIs.

Geoff

[Updated on: Wed, 22 June 2011 20:41]

      
gheintze
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Wed, 22 June 2011 23:16
Okay, my curiousity got the better of me -- so I tallied up Phread's victory totals while a Lt. Colonel. Very Happy

Western Front
Axis - 31
Allies - 55
Eastern Front
Axis - 26
Allies - 23
Mediterranean
Axis - 31
Allies - 30
Pacific
Axis - 15
Allies - 17

Total - 228
Axis - 103
Allies - 125

So, our totals are pretty similar, other than the fact that I had 20 wins on each front for each side (Phread had at least 15).

Phread (as he mentioned above) also won every battle for each side while a Lt. Colonel.

I have no idea how many cadets, and i won't take the time to track that down.

Good luck to all the Lt. Colonels out there! Hope this helps.

Geoff

      
Phread
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Thu, 23 June 2011 00:19
Geoff,

If you have that much spare time you should be playing more battles.

Thanks for the analysis btw.
      
gheintze
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Thu, 23 June 2011 16:04
Phread wrote on Wed, 22 June 2011 18:19

Geoff,

If you have that much spare time you should be playing more battles.

Thanks for the analysis btw.


It only took about five minutes, and I'm in a losing streak anyway...

But it does yield some more information. The common features are: won every battle from both sides, over 200 wins (100 as each side), and 15 for each side on each front.

Just trying to help others catch up...

Geoff
      
Phread
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Thu, 23 June 2011 22:55
He he he he, others should catch up by playing, playing and then playing some more.

Geoff, you are making it too easy for them (as you did for me too).
      
gheintze
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Thu, 23 June 2011 23:07
Phread wrote on Thu, 23 June 2011 16:55

He he he he, others should catch up by playing, playing and then playing some more.

Geoff, you are making it too easy for them (as you did for me too).


Anybody could have figured this out, it's not that difficult. But if I'm going to look at it to satisfy my own curiousity, why not share...

And it's always most difficult for the one leading the way... Wink

To tell you the truth, I'm shocked that there are still only two. I thought the hint from DoW had made it pretty clear and that others were also working toward that. I definitely thought we'd have at least 4-5 Colonels by now.

I also hoped there would be some new scenarios released today (it seems that updates usually come on Thursday)... I'm looking for a new challenge. Very Happy Although trying to get these Air Power achievements is giving me fits Embarassed ...and I can never find a DoW crew member to play. Sad And i thought I'd have rolled four flags by now. Confused

Geoff

[Updated on: Thu, 23 June 2011 23:09]

      
Phread
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Thu, 23 June 2011 23:20
I quite like our exclusive club.
You worked hard to earn the promotion and I tagged along on your coat tails.

Let others work as hard to earn it.

It cost me a lot of ranking points. Then I had a form slump that cost me too. For a while I was the newly promoted Colonel that everyone could and did beat. Shocked Shocked Shocked

v1.0 was released on June 6th, if DoW continue with a 3 week schedule we might see v1.01 soon. But DoW haven't indicated what their new release schedule might be.


I am still trying for air power medals too. I have the more difficult Axis Fighter Pilot but not the Allies Fighter Pilot (note the names have changed from German and US respectively). I am not even trying for the Aces High awards.

DoW staff seem to be thin on the ground. Perhaps we need a challenge or invitation system to be able to play against them.

Analysing when DoW awards have been made indicate that the battles are mostly between midnight and 4am NZST and I am not usually playing then. Laughing Laughing Laughing

I'd like some of the other awards unlocked.

      
gheintze
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Fri, 24 June 2011 13:48
Well, I got the allied Aces High this morning at Twin Villages.

We (my son was sitting on my lap watching me play) worked hard to set up a string of my opponent's units by carefully monitoring how many dice we rolled against each unit when attacking. We also kept praying and hoping that he (my opponent) would not move the vulnerable units apart. Finally the moment came when the units were still adjacent and sufficiently weakened -- 2 infantry figures, 2 armor figure, 1 infantry figure, and 1 infantry figure.

I played the card and we held our breath...

1. 2 figure infantry -- soldier and star
2. 2 figure armor -- two tanks (!)
3. 1 figure infantry -- soldier and grenade
4. 1 figure infantry -- grenade and star

Bingo! Allied Aces High -- only the 2nd one awarded!

Now for the last two Axis Air Power awards...

Geoff

[Updated on: Fri, 24 June 2011 22:57]

      
stevens
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Fri, 24 June 2011 17:48
"That which we obtain too easily, we esteem too lightly. It is dearness only which gives everything its value."

Thomas Paine



      
gheintze
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Fri, 24 June 2011 18:47
stevens wrote on Fri, 24 June 2011 11:48

"That which we obtain too easily, we esteem too lightly. It is dearness only which gives everything its value."

Thomas Paine


I don't think listing the statistics is making it too easy. Anybody can do the busy work to figure out what Phread and I have accomplished. After all, it took less than 10 minutes for me to break down Phread's victories -- and I wanted to see how close to my stats they were.

Besides the criteria for promotion still aren't known... It's pure speculation -- since my record and Phread's are so similar it's impossible to distinguish what may actually matter. And as far as I know, we have no firm numbers on the number of battles or cadets you must play.

If anybody prefers to be surprised, they don't need to read the thread. But I was very frustrated and almost gave up many times. If I can prevent someone else from throwing their hands in the air and walking away, that is a good deed.

And they'll still have to do the work anyway. As Phread (and the others currently chasing the promotion) can attest, it is no small task to win them all again. Sidi Rezegh Airfield, Omaha Beach, Arnhem Bridge, the Meat Grinder, 1st Armored to the Rescue, Gallabat and Metemma, Liberation of Paris -- it is quite a challenge and takes a lot of time to win all those.

I also believe that working together to figure out these puzzles brings the community together. I hope that other Lt. Colonels continue to post here so that the criteria can be narrowed down.

We still don't know everything about Major as well. And I'm sure that Tabou was quite fed up with that chase...

Geoff

[Updated on: Fri, 24 June 2011 19:40]

      
stevie02
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Fri, 24 June 2011 21:53
Well said. I have enjoyed this thread very much. It has also motivated me to play more. I dont think it should read like some lower high school, 'figure out the problem yourselves' thing. I for one am glad for the pointers. I can appreciate the massive accomplishment Geoff and Phread have achieved now that i'm picking off those difficult senarios that, I know I swore I would not play again after winning them initially.

How on earth did anyone ever win 'The Meat Grinder' ?
      
gheintze
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Fri, 24 June 2011 22:08
stevie02 wrote on Fri, 24 June 2011 15:53

Well said. I have enjoyed this thread very much. It has also motivated me to play more. I dont think it should read like some lower high school, 'figure out the problem yourselves' thing. I for one am glad for the pointers. I can appreciate the massive accomplishment Geoff and Phread have achieved now that i'm picking off those difficult senarios that, I know I swore I would not play again after winning them initially.

How on earth did anyone ever win 'The Meat Grinder' ?


Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad that you've enjoyed the thread and that it has motivated you. That is exactly the goal of the thread -- to encourage others to climb onward!

Ah, the Meat Grinder. A great scenario -- probably my favorite (Ponyri and Red Barricades Factory also compete for that).

Like many scenarios, the key is to lead a sustained and strong assualt in one of the sections. In this case, it most likely needs to be the left or the right. In the center you are too far away from the Japanese fortifications and you need to move between three artillery emplacements.

The advantage of attacking on the right is that the Japanese can't reinforce from the caves. The disadvantage is the tanks can come forward. Try to get your flamethrowers and engineers in quickly to take advantage of the bonus die and hope that you can eliminate the artillery. Keep to cover when possible and roll well.

The left flank has the advantage that you are closest to the Japanese at the start, but there are all those mines. Move the engineers forward first to clear two hexes of mines. Then rush them forward to take advantage of the bonus. At the same time you will be able to roll the flamethrowers up. Support this movement with the artillery and other armored units. If you lose the flamethrowers and engineers, it is almost impossible to dislodge the Japanese -- only rolling one die a turn when they get three is impossible odds. Especially since the Japanese will probably reinforce with full strength units from the middle.

Once you have some success on the left or right, you will better be able to attack in the middle to get the last few medals.

Good luck, soldier!

Geoff

[Updated on: Fri, 24 June 2011 22:09]

      
stevens
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Fri, 24 June 2011 22:43
Quote:

Well, I got the allied Aces High this morning at Twin Villages.

We (my son was helping me) worked hard to set up a string of 2 infantry figures, 2 armor figure, 1 infantry figure, and 1 infantry figure.

I played the card and we held our breath...


Quote:

"That which we obtain too easily, we esteem too lightly. It is dearness only which gives everything its value."

Thomas Paine



I was only particularly referencing the capture of this particular Aces medal. It sounded like from your narrative that you worked in concert with your opponent to avail yourself an opportunity to get a medal rather than obtain it on your own efforts alone. It matters not to me how you got it, only that the emphasis for getting a medal regardless of how it was obtained appeared to be more important at the time.

I could be misreading this, but I was simply infering that those who obtain a medal after a long struggle from a worthy opponent will probably treasure their reward a bit more than those who might gain it in a more convenient fashion.

[Updated on: Fri, 24 June 2011 23:28]

      
Turboheizer
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Fri, 24 June 2011 22:48
Quote:

I was only particularly referencing the capture of this particular Aces medal.


As I understand it, Geoff was playing against a random opponent and the "aid" of his son consisted in some advice how he should move or which cards he should play. Stevens obviously understood that Geoff was playing against his own son who helped him earn the medal by placing his forces as convenient targets.
      
gheintze
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Fri, 24 June 2011 22:55
stevens wrote on Fri, 24 June 2011 16:43

Quote:

Well, I got the allied Aces High this morning at Twin Villages.

We (my son was helping me) worked hard to set up a string of 2 infantry figures, 2 armor figure, 1 infantry figure, and 1 infantry figure.

I played the card and we held our breath...


Quote:

"That which we obtain too easily, we esteem too lightly. It is dearness only which gives everything its value."

Thomas Paine



I was only particularly referencing the capture of this particular Aces medal. It sounded like from your narrative that you worked in concert with your opponent to avail yourself an opportunity to get a medal rather than obtain it on your own efforts alone. It matters not to me how you got it, only that the ephasis for getting a medal regardless of how it was obtained appeared to be more important at the time.

I could be misreading this, but I was simply infering that those who obtain a medal after a long struggle from a worthy opponent will probably treasure their reward a bit more than those who might gain it in a more convenient fashion.



Oops, I understand now. But...I was not playing against my son. He's also learning how to play Memoir'44 and was sitting on my lap and watching me. So as we were playing my worthy opponent (who had no idea i was going after a medal), my son and I were discussing and debating how to proceed. Actually, my son thought at one point that I should just give up and make sure I won the battle...

So the medal was earned fair and square with no assistance from my opponent. Sorry for the mistaken impression, but I agree with Stevens and would never ask my opponent to assist me in obtaining a medal.

I will edit my post above to reflect this.

Geoff
      
stevens
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Fri, 24 June 2011 23:33
Congrats on your team effort Gheintze! I am sorry for misreading your post.
Embarassed Embarassed

I am also sorry for your opponent that he gets no conciliatory award for being strafed and losing 4 units. A purple heart award might be a thought for DOW to initiate for those who lose in a real shellacking.

[Updated on: Fri, 24 June 2011 23:33]

      
gheintze
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Sat, 25 June 2011 01:04
No problem, Stevens. I see how my original post could have been misread.

I must say though, I can't understand why my opponent didn't spread those units out. It must have been obvious what I was trying to do... Ah well, caught up in the moment I guess...

Purple heart... not a bad idea.

Geoff
      
GI John
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Sat, 25 June 2011 02:56
It sounds like the promotion to Colonel is very difficult to say the least.

My thought was that the Band of Brothers idea is very good as you lead people into the game. A sort of word of mouth/email promotion of the game. But, to have to play 50 green Cadets or whatever, seems very tedious to me. If there is a requirement it should be, say, 20 games, once you reach Lt. Colonel. That number seems reasonable.

But, I think the clues need to be a bit more descriptive without spelling it out. I looked at the hints and my interpretation was way off on all of them.

Only by reading another thread on this forum, have I found the knowledge to attain the rank of Captain. And I have a pretty clear path to Major (20 more wins) and Lt. Colonel (10 victories for both sides in each threater - 80 wins) Now, is that cumulative or do I start from stratch after reaching Major? I don't know that part. But, that's ok.

My question is, when/if the Terrain and Air Pack are added, do the requirements change and do we get demoted if we don't have certain new requirements?

The higher ranks should be hard to attain, which it seems they are. But, some better clues and direction needs to be given.

Eventually, someone will figure it out and post it. Maybe, that's by design.
      
gheintze
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Sat, 25 June 2011 03:49
GIJohn wrote on Fri, 24 June 2011 20:56

Only by reading another thread on this forum, have I found the knowledge to attain the rank of Captain. And I have a pretty clear path to Major (20 more wins) and Lt. Colonel (10 victories for both sides in each threater - 80 wins) Now, is that cumulative or do I start from stratch after reaching Major? I don't know that part. But, that's ok.


My understanding is that they are cumulative until Lt. Colonel. And we know nothing about the ranks beyond that.

Geoff
      
stevie02
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Wed, 29 June 2011 19:32
Well,
I just made Colonel,. A little earlier than I expected. I had at least 15 wins on each front with each side since becoming a Lt Col except East Front as allies which I had about 10 or 11 only. Of course I had won each senario from both sides also.

Please feel free to study my career, to see if theres anything this thread has missed in the quest for promotion.

I also got promoted after a defeat ( well done gamergirl ) This must be relevant ?

I'm glad I got there as I have been playing way too much and gonna ease up a bit.... just made be bad tempered.

If I'm honest, the influx and requirement to play cadets helped as many were still on a learning curve, though i must say some 1st time players were superb and not just lucky.

Stevie02

      
stevens
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Wed, 29 June 2011 20:46
Quote:

If I'm honest, the influx and requirement to play cadets helped as many were still on a learning curve, though i must say some 1st time players were superb and not just lucky.


Just because someone starts out as a CADET on Memoir '44 Online does not mean that they are a novice to the game. I have played several "Cadets" who have been playing the boardgame for years, and their experience showed in the end result.

[Updated on: Wed, 29 June 2011 20:46]

      
clorofila
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Re:Colonel Promotion requirements Wed, 29 June 2011 23:21
Quote:

Just because someone starts out as a CADET on Memoir '44 Online does not mean that they are a novice to the game. I have played several "Cadets" who have been playing the boardgame for years, and their experience showed in the end result.


Indeed! I also had my share of experienced cadets Smile
      
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