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Turboheizer
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Generalmajor

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Re:Brigadier Bar Sun, 05 February 2012 15:43
Congrats, Stevie - now that you have also moved up the ladder, at least this leaves me as the ranking Colonel. Very Happy

What we still don't know is whether the promotion to general is only depended on expert games, or if maybe another condition must also be fulfilled. I will try and see if I can become a general with less than 1000 games in total.
      
Quit2
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Re:Brigadier Bar Sun, 05 February 2012 17:16
stevie02 wrote on Sun, 05 February 2012 14:41

I will leave the analysis to others.
Stevie


I took a look at your records, and compared them to mine.

Strangely, I have "better" results than you for most criteria.

I have more SFTF games played, more SFTF games won. My games and victories have a better spread over fronts and sides.
This goes for our all time records, as well as for our records since being a colonel.

What could be the problem:
- My "unique win" is a bit lower (54 against 60, but I have still more than Nygaard at the time of his promotion).
- I have alot of my victories on my own scenarios, started them via "my scenarios" tab in the online game, instead of from the SFTF tab.

[Updated on: Sun, 05 February 2012 17:17]

      
gheintze
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Re:Brigadier Bar Sun, 05 February 2012 17:28
stevie02 wrote on Sun, 05 February 2012 08:41

Turbo.
Dont despair, ive only had about 50 wins in expert mode... took me about a week. I will leave the analysis to others. I will say this though, there is life a plenty outwith the official senarios.

Stevie



Congrats, stevie02!

I'm glad you made it so quickly. I'm beginning to think there is a sliding scale and that the more official wins you have, the less you need in expert. But that is just a theory...

In any case, I'm back to playing the official scenarios. I've actally missed them. My project is to play through them in chronological order. It's pretty cool actually...

So far I've played Battle of Warsaw (2 wins), Suomussalmi (split with Hester), and Gallabat and Metemma (2 wins). Hellfire Pass is next.

I'm not abaandoning the SFTF, but I will strive for a good mixture of the two. I did have to purchase another captain's pack yesterday. Rolling Eyes

Geoff
      
Henry Pelham
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Re:Brigadier Bar Sun, 05 February 2012 18:31
Welcome, Geoff and Stevie.

Geoff, I remember playing against you at the Meat Grinder as a Captain -- losing badly as Allies -- afterwards you pulled me aside with a DOW PM to give me some basic advice about that scenario and the game in general. Thanks for that. It made all kinds of favorable impressions upon me.

Here's the game - I looked it up -- I had a lot to learn last June

http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44-online/en/battle/?id=23 926493

Cheers to that.

When it comes to the Brigadier requirements, I wonder if the expert games before promotion to Colonel are not worth counting. That might explain the crooked numbers that are found when only looking at expert games as Colonel. Nygaard was a little late to the Colonel party, and his expert record is much more fully established if you include the Lt. Col. games.

With eight Brigadiers, there's plenty of cases to examine now. In the meantime my advice would be to play every expert scenario and win as many as possible -- playing a wide range of expert scenarios is one thing all the Brigadiers have in common.
      
gheintze
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Re:Brigadier Bar Sun, 05 February 2012 19:02
Henry Pelham wrote on Sun, 05 February 2012 12:31

Welcome, Geoff and Stevie.

Geoff, I remember playing against you at the Meat Grinder as a Captain -- losing badly as Allies -- afterwards you pulled me aside with a DOW PM to give me some basic advice about that scenario and the game in general. Thanks for that. It made all kinds of favorable impressions upon me.

Here's the game - I looked it up -- I had a lot to learn last June

http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44-online/en/battle/?id=23 926493

Cheers to that.


I had completely forgotten that was you, Henry. I try to give advice to new players when appropriate. I wonder how many others I've inspired...

It's nice when my efforts are appreciated. You are quite welcome and I hope that I played a little part in you becoming a General.

I'll look at that replay now... Very Happy

geoff
      
Phread
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Re:Brigadier Bar Sun, 05 February 2012 21:52
Welcome Brigadier #8 Brigadier stevie02

1st player to Lt Colonel, 4th to Colonel, 8th to Brigadier. A top player.

Your results as Colonel in Expert battles against real opponents:

Played 106 Won 56 52.83%
Axis 51 Won 24 47.06%
Allies 55 Won 32 58.18%

western played 55
Axis Victory 13
Allies Victory 17

eastern played 22
Axis Victory 7
Allies Victory 7

mediterranean played 4
Axis Victory 1
Allies Victory 1

pacific played 25
Axis Victory 3
Allies Victory 7

Played 46 scenarios against real opponents for
Distinct Wins: Axis 21 Allies 26 total 47


Your results are similar to those of Nygaard.

[Updated on: Sun, 05 February 2012 22:26]

      
stevie02
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Re:Brigadier Bar Sun, 05 February 2012 23:24
Hi Phread.

Thanks for the kind words. I didnt realise I was 1st to Lt Col! It seems if the sequence continues I will be 16th to Major General when the time comes.

Its interesting to see my stats and I'm glad there are people like yourself and others who take the time to figure things out to make it easier for guys like me to understand Memoir 44.

I need some practice in the jungle Embarassed


Stevie02 ( not as good as Stevie01 )
      
Helcat
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Re:Brigadier Bar Mon, 06 February 2012 00:20
Welcome Brigadier Stevie02.

Dear sir,

Congrats on your promotion.

A tip for non-Generals:
I think if you play this game very often, one day you will earn your promotion.

Welcome again brigadier Stevie02 and enjoy your stay in the bar.
      
Phread
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Re:Brigadier Bar Mon, 06 February 2012 00:53
Brigadier Stevie02

Is the sequence 1 4 8 13? (Delta 3 4 5) Question

I discovered you Lt Col. success when searching the forum to see when you were promoted to Colonel (about June 29).

You had not played SFTF games before you were promoted to Colonel.

Analysis is reasonably easy for me.
All I have to do is download your result spreadsheets, combine into one sheet. Determine when you were promoted to Colonel and Brigadier. Sort your scenarios to get the ones you played. A little cut and paste and it's done.

PM me if you want the spreadsheet.
      
Phread
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Re:Brigadier Bar Mon, 06 February 2012 10:33
Brigadier Stevie02,

a question for you - help me understand possible requirements for promotion to Brigadier.

About how many SFTF scenarios have you posted/published online?

thanks

      
stevie02
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Re:Brigadier Bar Mon, 06 February 2012 11:16
Phread.
Just the two. Merville and Widerstandsnest 62. Going for promotion I was aiming to win 100 SFTF games. Geoff did it after 90 though. I only got promoted after playing an official senario ( my first one in about 50 games ) I wonder how soon I could have played that official game before I actually did to get the promotion ? Im thinking 50, as your stats state I won 56. Is the requirement to play X amount of SFTF in a row ? Just some thoughts.

Stevie
      
Vekkiller
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Re:Brigadier Bar Mon, 06 February 2012 20:47
I think Phread is suspecting , as I am, that posting an expert scenario is an unavoidable step to obtaining brigadier's gallons.
Looking up at the promotion list I'm pretty sure that anyone of the new brigadiers, except one I'm not sure about (Hester24), has posted at least one scenario.
Of course playing a consistent number of official and sftf missios may also be important, but being Expert fron all sides could mean that you must create your own missions to teach the art of war, like generals ought to do , and not only to fight them.

Anyway, I'll try to build my own mission. Got a couple of ideas.

      
Helcat
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Re:Brigadier Bar Mon, 06 February 2012 20:52
Hester24 posted more scenarios as well.
      
Phread
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Re:Brigadier Bar Mon, 06 February 2012 22:17
Good guesses people - but not correct. Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation

Stevie02 and Nygaard were promoted with fewer SFTF wins (as Colonel vs real opponents) than most of the other Brigadiers.

I know Nygaard has posted a lot of SFTF scenarios. I did not know how many Stevie02 had posted.

I postulated that with the bigger number of SFTF scenarios posted the fewer SFTF wins would be required.

But the evidence doesn't support that theory either. Shocked Shocked Shocked


The bottom line is still Colonels must play and win SFTF scenarios until they are promoted.
      
hdescavernes
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Re:Brigadier Bar Mon, 06 February 2012 22:36
Phread écrit le Mon, 06 February 2012 22:17

The bottom line is still Colonels must play and win SFTF scenarios until they are promoted.


Sir, yes, sir !
      
Quit2
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Re:Brigadier Bar Mon, 06 February 2012 23:12
Phread wrote on Mon, 06 February 2012 22:17

Good guesses people - but not correct. Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation

Stevie02 and Nygaard were promoted with fewer SFTF wins (as Colonel vs real opponents) than most of the other Brigadiers.

I know Nygaard has posted a lot of SFTF scenarios. I did not know how many Stevie02 had posted.

I postulated that with the bigger number of SFTF scenarios posted the fewer SFTF wins would be required.

But the evidence doesn't support that theory either. Shocked Shocked Shocked


The bottom line is still Colonels must play and win SFTF scenarios until they are promoted.


I have posted alot of SFTF scenarios, and played and won alot of them. (more than certain brigadiers)
But still no promotion.

So far I have 2 theories which might explain this:
- You need a certain number of SFTF played and/or won, possibly with a certain spread, AND you need a certain number of wins since becoming a colonel on SFTF and Standard combined. (I have been playing a bit less since becoming a colonel, until they upgraded for the general rank)
OR
- You need a certain number of SFTF wins/played, excluding the wins on your own scenarios. This might include games from before becoming a colonel (otherwise Nygaard might be too low at the moment of promotion). I have been playing my own scenarios alot.

And then of course, something else might be wrong, of which I did not think. (most likely)
      
Phread
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Re:Brigadier Bar Mon, 06 February 2012 23:47
Colonel Quit2 my analysis of your SFTF career as Colonel vs real opponents follows.

Played 162 Won 100 61.73%
Axis 84 Won 54 64.29%
Allies 78 Won 46 58.97%

western played 54
Axis Victory 19
Allies Victory 17

eastern played 40
Axis Victory 15
Allies Victory 13

mediterranean played 32
Axis Victory 6
Allies Victory 7

pacific played 36
Axis Victory 14
Allies Victory 9

Distinct Wins: Axis 31 Allies 24 Total 55

These statistics would suggest you should be close to promotion.

The question I have to you is "How many of these victories are in scenarios you have created and played before you posted them for all to play?"

I still have a question in my mind "Do victories in SFTF scenarios that haven't been posted (i.e. testing in my scenarios) count for promotion?"

[Updated on: Mon, 06 February 2012 23:48]

      
Quit2
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Re:Brigadier Bar Tue, 07 February 2012 00:41
Phread wrote on Mon, 06 February 2012 23:47

The question I have to you is "How many of these victories are in scenarios you have created and played before you posted them for all to play?"

Too many!
I have made 13 scenarios so far (2 of which I have never played because some terrain won't allow them to load - looking at winter wars terrain)
So I have played 11 of my own scenarios, 10 of which have been made available for all players at a certain time. (number 11 is ready and will come soon)

So of my wins on my own scenarios, about 25 to 30 are from before making them public. I alwas play my scenarios a few times against Johnny, and then I like to win them on both sides against a real player before making them public. Some of my own scenarios, I might have never won after they were made public.
Ah, and again about 10 victories are from playing them after they are no longer public.
So up to 40 wins (and some of my distinct wins) could be from scenarios that were not public at the time.

Well these numbers are the impression I have ... but I might be wrong ...

To make matters worse: Nygaard has invited me on some occasions to some of his non-public scenarios.

I guess I'll play some more SFTF.
      
Henry Pelham
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Re:Brigadier Bar Tue, 07 February 2012 02:11
Phread, have you counted the numbers of unique expert scenarios won from both sides? Not unique wins as axis and unique wins as allies, but unique scenarios won as both axis and allies?
      
Phread
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Re:Brigadier Bar Tue, 07 February 2012 02:42
Henry Pelham wrote on Tue, 07 February 2012 14:11

Phread, have you counted the numbers of unique expert scenarios won from both sides? Not unique wins as axis and unique wins as allies, but unique scenarios won as both axis and allies?


My count of distinct or unique wins of SFTF scenarios counts the number of wins as Axis (and separately Allies) a player has in different scenarios.

If I have won a scenario 4 times as Axis and 3 times as Allies that counts as 2 distinct wins, one as Axis, one as Allies.

So the counts of distinct wins (in statistics above) is the number of scenarios where a player has won at least once from the given side.

It is not the number of scenarios a player has won (at least once) from both Axis and Allies sides. My spreadsheet does count the pairs of wins - but I haven't reported it.
      
Helcat
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Re:Brigadier Bar Wed, 08 February 2012 07:39
Welcome Brigadier Bob.


Dear sir,


First, congrats on your promotion.
I hope you do not mind if I do not address you with Sergeant anymore.

Your journey was a long one. Fighting on grasslands, taking a truck on a road at night through the galaxy of Memoir'44, to bite the bullits on every terrain. Fighting in wire, on the desert, against fortifications. On mountains and in palmforests. On winterroads, in hedgehogs. But you made it.

One challenge in front of you: the bicycle troops of the Chinese army.

Congrats again brigadier Bob, and enjoy your stay in the bar.

[Updated on: Wed, 08 February 2012 16:14]

      
gheintze
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Re:Brigadier Bar Wed, 08 February 2012 07:49
Congrats to my old friend SgtBob49!!

Bob and I have played a lot while discussing our love for Philadelphia sports. I'm honored that he earned his Star playing against me. Well done, Bob!

There are 9 of us now -- who will be #10...

sam1812, quit2, jamesherrell, stevens...hmmmm...

Geoff

[Updated on: Wed, 08 February 2012 07:50]

      
SgtBob49
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Re:Brigadier Bar Wed, 08 February 2012 08:12
My sincere thanks to Helcat and Gheintze (Geoff) for the kind words on my promotion to BG. I have played against both of you many times and learned a lot from each of you and many of the other players, my worthy opponents and friends who I have battled with over these many months. Very Happy

I am proud to be in the company of such great players at the BG bar! The beers are on me. Yuengling that great American Pennsylvania lager will be flowing! Laughing Very Happy

I really do not know what triggered the promotion as I had not been keeping track much since I got promoted to Colonel last August. I did play a lot of Expert Battles and regular scenarios after the Colonel promotion. My promotion also came after a loss at Into the Cauldron in our first half of a two match game. Shocked Confused Laughing

Plenty of room at the Brigadier bar and I am sure more players will soon follow! Cool




      
Phread
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Re:Brigadier Bar Wed, 08 February 2012 08:14
Congratulations and welcome to Brigadier General SgtBob49.
      
Nygaard
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Re:Brigadier Bar Wed, 08 February 2012 08:38
Welcome Brigadier General SgtBob49! Much deserved!

      
gheintze
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Re:Brigadier Bar Wed, 08 February 2012 15:33
Two Pennsylvanians (I'm in exile, though) in the first 9 Brigadiers...maybe we should hang some Philadelphia Phillies banners in here... Very Happy

Geoff
      
SgtBob49
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Re:Brigadier Bar Wed, 08 February 2012 16:06
Thanks to Phread and Magnus Nygaard for the kind words on my promotion to BG. I am glad to be in such esteemed company in the BG bar! Very Happy And to Geoff, Spring Traiing for the Phillies is just around the corner! Cool Very Happy

Bob
      
Henry Pelham
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Re:Brigadier Bar Fri, 10 February 2012 02:06
Well done Bob! I'll have a Black and Tan with you.
      
sam1812
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Re:Brigadier Bar Fri, 10 February 2012 05:54
Interestingly, Bob, you've only played 53 Expert games against human opponents, with only 19 victories. But you've got 319 Expert games against Hermann.

512 Standard battles as Colonel, but there are several you haven't played during that period, and quite a few that you haven't won on both sides. And four scenarios account for more than half of your Standard games.

And you haven't composed any scenarios. This officially disproves the doctrine of Original Scenario.

Curiouser and curiouser.
      
Phread
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Re:Brigadier Bar Fri, 10 February 2012 06:11
sam1812 wrote on Fri, 10 February 2012 17:54

Interestingly, Bob, you've only played 53 Expert games against human opponents, with only 19 victories. But you've got 319 Expert games against Hermann.

512 Standard battles as Colonel, but there are several you haven't played during that period, and quite a few that you haven't won on both sides. And four scenarios account for more than half of your Standard games.

And you haven't composed any scenarios. This officially disproves the doctrine of Original Scenario.

Curiouser and curiouser.


Sam your analysis is of all of Brigadier General SgtBob49's expert battles.

SFTF Results as Colonel SgtBob49 versus real players
Played 44
Won 14 31.82%
Axis 20 Won 7 35.00%
Allies 24 Won 7 29.17%

As a Colonel he played fewer and won less.

These results are inconsistent with all theories (to date) on promotion from Colonel to Brigadier General - unless playing solo games count towards this promotion which would be the first time solo games count towards promotion.
      
SgtBob49
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Re:Brigadier Bar Fri, 10 February 2012 07:55
Thanks Henry for your kind words. They are greatly appreciated. Very Happy

Sam and Phread thanks for your analysis of my record. I do not keep track of stats much and I rarely check my record and rarely anyone else's, so I would not know. I just read the Forums posts to get an idea of what is required and play a lot of games. Just adds to the mystery of MM44 as to what is required to get the promotions. I would think total number of victories in all scenarios as a Colonel or number of games played or solo in the espert mode may have something to do with it. Solo games never counted before but neither did expert before so one never knows.

I won all scenarios on both sides or I could not have been promoted to Colonel. After Colonel I just played who invited me or I invited so as Sam points out many games were on the same scenarios, so I assume one does not need to win them all again on each side as a Colonel.

For me the game is in the fun of playing and hope to see you all on the battlefield soon Very Happy
      
JJs Juggernaut
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Re:Brigadier Bar Fri, 10 February 2012 14:36
Phread wrote on Fri, 10 February 2012 00:11

These results are inconsistent with all theories (to date) on promotion from Colonel to Brigadier General - unless playing solo games count towards this promotion which would be the first time solo games count towards promotion.



Well it would be like DoW to throw a curveball in the mix by makes solo games count. Shocked After all, they have to try to find knew ways to stump the players who happen to be analysis experts. Laughing Wink Laughing
      
sam1812
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Re:Brigadier Bar Fri, 10 February 2012 14:54
If the system doesn't recognize Expert games as a place where you can get decorations or promotions or change your rating, maybe it also doesn't recognize the difference between Expert solo and multi-player games.
      
gheintze
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Re:Brigadier Bar Fri, 10 February 2012 14:58
sam1812 wrote on Fri, 10 February 2012 08:54

If the system doesn't recognize Expert games as a place where you can get decorations or promotions or change your rating, maybe it also doesn't recognize the difference between Expert solo and multi-player games.


That's what I was thinking. After all, the only three categories in our online records are solo, multi-player, and expert.

Geoff
      
Henry Pelham
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Re:Brigadier Bar Sat, 11 February 2012 17:01
One clue that has not been sufficiently studied is the first part of the French description of the promotion criteria:

Quote:

"Quel que soit le drapeau sous lequel ils combattent, les Généraux de brigade ont prouvé à de nombreuses reprises qu'ils étaient de véritables experts militaires."


A translation of this French clue is: "Whatever the flag under which they fight, Brigadier Generals have proven repeatedly that they were real military experts."

I suspect we are not guessing the meaning of "all sides" in the English clue. The counting of Axis and Allies wins on fronts has gotten everyone nowhere.

In the promotion clues, fronts are usually hinted at with words that indicate place. For Captain we have "Vous pensez déjà avoir combattu partout." (Translation: "Think you already have fought everywhere.") For Lt Col: "quel que soit le théâtre d'opération sur lequel ils étaient en activité" (Translation: ". . . regardless of the theater on which they were operating.") In English these clues are "By now you're beginning to think you've seen it all" and "regardless of the Theater of Operations in which they were posted!" (Note that the Lt. Col. promotion clue is more vague in English than it is French, -- something we also see in the Brigadier promotion clue.)

In the scenario editor, there are 9 "flags" or nations for Axis and 21 nations for Allies. It is not easy to tell what nations have been selected in the building of each expert scenario. In some cases the description might say one thing but the scenario was made with the default settings of Germany and United States. Yet "nation" is clearly a variable like "front" (see the Battle Info tab) that must be encoded in a database. It makes sense that an automatic lookup of victories by scenario # could just as easily count wins per unique "nation" as it could count wins per "front."

Nygaard does not have as many Expert wins as other Brigadiers, but his scenarios involve unusual nations. And like Helcat, Hester24, and the other early Brigadiers, he was always a good sport about trying any new scenario. I would guess that his Expert record looks very good if you are counting wins per unique nation.

My advice to those of you who feel you have been left behind: Play and win often as a variety of nations, and then see if you are not promoted after some official scenario.

Now ... if only some genius would make a short scenario between, say, Slovakia and Poland, this might be so much easier.

[Updated on: Sat, 11 February 2012 17:20]

      
van Voort
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Re:Brigadier Bar Sun, 12 February 2012 00:41
That idea sounds familar, where I have I heard that before?

Which means tracking that requirement will be fun.

van Voort wrote on Sat, 14 January 2012 23:28



From all sides

Note that it says "all" sides, not "both" sides, which suggests that the requirement may have something to do with playing or winning a set ammount as each nationality.

Some of these will be more difficult than others so I suggest Nygard get cracking on some scenarios on the Franco-Alpine campaign of June 1940 because Italians and French will be hard to collect.


Hmm, well there are 9 Axis Nations and 21 Allied nations here.

If I am right in a years time I'll be wandering around asking if anyone has a Slovakia v New Zealand scenario

[Updated on: Sun, 12 February 2012 00:43]

      
Jeronimon
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Brigadier

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Re:Brigadier Bar Sun, 12 February 2012 08:31
So, could somebody provide a list of these 30 nations?

And, really handy: a list of scenarios in which the, not so common, nations occur?

I sound really lazy, no?

Rolling Eyes
      
Quit2
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Re:Brigadier Bar Sun, 12 February 2012 09:19
Well, If you've won "Battle of Fort Eben-Emael with the allies, you've won one with the not so common Belgians as allied troops. If you have not, you'll have to wait until it gets back online.
The battle of Gembloux has the french as allies.
      
van Voort
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Re:Brigadier Bar Sun, 12 February 2012 10:56
Jeronimon wrote on Sun, 12 February 2012 07:31

So, could somebody provide a list of these 30 nations?

And, really handy: a list of scenarios in which the, not so common, nations occur?

I sound really lazy, no?

Rolling Eyes


Axis:

Germany
Japan
Italy
Finland
Slovakia
Romania
Hungary
Bulgaria
Vichy France

Allies:

US
GB
Canada
USSR
France
Belgium
Australia
Netherlands
Poland
Norway
China
Greece
Yugoslavia
New Zealand
South Africa
India
French - Free
French - Resistance
USMC
Brazil
Philippines
      
van Voort
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Re:Brigadier Bar Sun, 12 February 2012 11:07
If we want debate the accuracy and compelteness of that list I suggest we start a seperate thread

      
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