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tank commander
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BEL and road bonus Fri, 23 March 2012 23:55
As per the FAQ Supplement:

An infantry may get the road bonus if "a unit that starts on a Road hex and remains on a road the whole turn may move 1 additional hex."

So, can the extra road hex be applied to either 3 hex BEL move?

In other words can I move 4 road - then 3 road or 3 road - 4 road - my choice?
      
sam1812
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Re:BEL and road bonus Sat, 24 March 2012 03:33
I could have sworn that the answer was yes, but the closest thing I can find via Search is this old post from you, saying that the answer is no.

tank commander wrote on Wed, 04 November 2009 05:48

I believe that the question of a if a BEL ordered unit could benefit from the road bonus was asked before before AND officially answered and that answer was "no".


I can't find it in the FAQ or supplement.

So my answer is, at the moment, I'm not as sure as I thought I was.
      
stevens
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Re:BEL and road bonus Sat, 24 March 2012 03:47
sam1812 wrote on Fri, 23 March 2012 22:33

I could have sworn that the answer was yes, but the closest thing I can find via Search is this old post from you, saying that the answer is no.

tank commander wrote on Wed, 04 November 2009 05:48

I believe that the question of a if a BEL ordered unit could benefit from the road bonus was asked before before AND officially answered and that answer was "no".


I can't find it in the FAQ or supplement.

So my answer is, at the moment, I'm not as sure as I thought I was.


I remember this as well Sam and I think there is NO road bonus for BEL. But like you, I cannot remeber where it is.
      
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Re:BEL and road bonus Sat, 24 March 2012 03:51
I'd have to disagree. Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation

An infantry unit ordered with an infantry assault card can move 3 (if on road) and battle.

So I'd expect an infantry unit ordered with a BEL to be able to move 4 and battle if all the movement was road movement.
      
stevens
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Re:BEL and road bonus Sat, 24 March 2012 03:55
Phtead has a good point. And if you look at P.39 of the FAQ
under examples it states:

Quote:

The following is a summary of Infantry movement when it is ordered by the Behind Enemy Lines card:
Roads - a unit that starts on a Road hex and remains on a road the whole turn may move 1 additional hex.


So, if the unit stayed on the roads for the entire movement, it would seem possible to move 8 hexes. Move 3, battle and tg, and move 4 (as an example).

OF COURSE, the likelihood of moving 8 hexes on a road totally unobstructed is slim, but it seems legal.

[Updated on: Sat, 24 March 2012 03:57]

      
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Re:BEL and road bonus Sat, 24 March 2012 11:57
stevens wrote on Sat, 24 March 2012 03:55

Phtead has a good point. And if you look at P.39 of the FAQ
under examples it states:

Quote:

The following is a summary of Infantry movement when it is ordered by the Behind Enemy Lines card:
Roads - a unit that starts on a Road hex and remains on a road the whole turn may move 1 additional hex.


So, if the unit stayed on the roads for the entire movement, it would seem possible to move 8 hexes. Move 3, battle and tg, and move 4 (as an example).

OF COURSE, the likelihood of moving 8 hexes on a road totally unobstructed is slim, but it seems legal.


Diving into FAQ i found it straight away ! p39 indeed. Razz

But i think you didnt stretch enough Stevens sir ! Rolling Eyes

You could move 3+bonus = 4
battle and tg = 1
And continue your road 3+1= 4

That would be a 9 hex move in total !
      
stevens
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Re:BEL and road bonus Sat, 24 March 2012 12:44
Flemish_Havy wrote on Sat, 24 March 2012 06:57

stevens wrote on Sat, 24 March 2012 03:55

Phtead has a good point. And if you look at P.39 of the FAQ
under examples it states:

Quote:

The following is a summary of Infantry movement when it is ordered by the Behind Enemy Lines card:
Roads - a unit that starts on a Road hex and remains on a road the whole turn may move 1 additional hex.


So, if the unit stayed on the roads for the entire movement, it would seem possible to move 8 hexes. Move 3, battle and tg, and move 4 (as an example).

OF COURSE, the likelihood of moving 8 hexes on a road totally unobstructed is slim, but it seems legal.


Diving into FAQ i found it straight away ! p39 indeed. Razz

But i think you didnt stretch enough Stevens sir ! Rolling Eyes

You could move 3+bonus = 4
battle and tg = 1
And continue your road 3+1= 4

That would be a 9 hex move in total !


The road bonus of +1 hex would, I believe, only be given once in the movement of the BEL unit, not two times. So I am sticking with my guesstimate of 8 maximum which is what TC stated in the first post (taking ground onto another road hex would be one of the hex moves as well):

tank commander wrote on Fri, 23 March 2012 18:55

As per the FAQ Supplement:

An infantry may get the road bonus if "a unit that starts on a Road hex and remains on a road the whole turn may move 1 additional hex."

So, can the extra road hex be applied to either 3 hex BEL move?

In other words can I move 4 road - then 3 road or 3 road - 4 road - my choice?

[Updated on: Sat, 24 March 2012 12:46]

      
tank commander
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Re:BEL and road bonus Sat, 24 March 2012 13:06
sam1812 wrote on Fri, 23 March 2012 22:33

I could have sworn that the answer was yes, but the closest thing I can find via Search is this old post from you, saying that the answer is no.

tank commander wrote on Wed, 04 November 2009 05:48

I believe that the question of a if a BEL ordered unit could benefit from the road bonus was asked before before AND officially answered and that answer was "no".


I can't find it in the FAQ or supplement.

So my answer is, at the moment, I'm not as sure as I thought I was.



I recall the original discussion on this.

So I was a bit surprised that the FAQ supplement stated that a BEL ordered infantry did get an extra hex of movement.
      
tank commander
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Re:BEL and road bonus Sat, 24 March 2012 13:10
stevens wrote on Sat, 24 March 2012 07:44

Flemish_Havy wrote on Sat, 24 March 2012 06:57

stevens wrote on Sat, 24 March 2012 03:55

Phtead has a good point. And if you look at P.39 of the FAQ
under examples it states:

Quote:

The following is a summary of Infantry movement when it is ordered by the Behind Enemy Lines card:
Roads - a unit that starts on a Road hex and remains on a road the whole turn may move 1 additional hex.


So, if the unit stayed on the roads for the entire movement, it would seem possible to move 8 hexes. Move 3, battle and tg, and move 4 (as an example).

OF COURSE, the likelihood of moving 8 hexes on a road totally unobstructed is slim, but it seems legal.


Diving into FAQ i found it straight away ! p39 indeed. Razz

But i think you didnt stretch enough Stevens sir ! Rolling Eyes

You could move 3+bonus = 4
battle and tg = 1
And continue your road 3+1= 4

That would be a 9 hex move in total !


The road bonus of +1 hex would, I believe, only be given once in the movement of the BEL unit, not two times. So I am sticking with my guesstimate of 8 maximum which is what TC stated in the first post (taking ground onto another road hex would be one of the hex moves as well):


I agree - the FAQ seems to indicate only 1 hex of road bonus here for the turn.
      
Phread
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Re:BEL and road bonus Sat, 24 March 2012 19:35
Again, gentlemen, I disagree. Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation

The FAQ reference to the +1 movement for a road hex is for a unit that has only a single movement. An Infantry Unit starting on a road and remainning on a road (including taking ground) should - IMHO - be able to move 9 hexes 4 + 1 + 4.

The limitation of +1 movement is per movement, A Unit ordered with a BEL gets 2 movements.
      
sdnative
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Re:BEL and road bonus Sun, 25 March 2012 05:45
How do we ever get any "Official" answers? Confused Confused
      
Phread
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Re:BEL and road bonus Sun, 25 March 2012 06:10
We wait patiently.

Richard Borg, himself, has just answered a question regarding Artillery Bombard & retrreat caused Allied battle back.

We can trust that our questions are being read.
      
Flemish_Havy
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Re:BEL and road bonus Sun, 01 April 2012 19:07
Gents,

Reading the FAQ over again, it says:

' ... start and remains on road ... THE WHOLE TURN, may move 1 hex extra '

/-> since it speaks off a TURN it should be 1 extra hex only.
During a BEL the unit makes several MOVES, but they all are done in the same TURN, n' es pas ?! ! Rolling Eyes

Nevertheless i found an occasion to stretch the moves to 9 hex !When playing North Afrikan Desert Rules, doing an overrun, you can move the extra hex ! Rolling Eyes
ex. 3 (for move 1) + 1 extra for the road + 1 for tg + 1 for NADRules + 3 for second move, makes 9. Razz

A second question pops up here: " do you have to move the extra in the first move, in the last, or do you have the choice ? "
      
tank commander
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Re:BEL and road bonus Sun, 01 April 2012 22:05
Flemish_Havy wrote on Sun, 01 April 2012 13:07

Nevertheless i found an occasion to stretch the moves to 9 hex !When playing North Afrikan Desert Rules, doing an overrun, you can move the extra hex ! Rolling Eyes
ex. 3 (for move 1) + 1 extra for the road + 1 for tg + 1 for NADRules + 3 for second move, makes 9. Razz[/i]


I am sorry to tell you that the extra hex for the north African Desert Rules only applies to armor units - it was a nice thought though Smile .


      
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Re:BEL and road bonus Fri, 06 April 2012 16:52
tank commander wrote on Sun, 01 April 2012 22:05

Flemish_Havy wrote on Sun, 01 April 2012 13:07

Nevertheless i found an occasion to stretch the moves to 9 hex !When playing North Afrikan Desert Rules, doing an overrun, you can move the extra hex ! Rolling Eyes
ex. 3 (for move 1) + 1 extra for the road + 1 for tg + 1 for NADRules + 3 for second move, makes 9. Razz[/i]


I am sorry to tell you that the extra hex for the north African Desert Rules only applies to armor units - it was a nice thought though Smile .





Darn wishfull thinking Embarassed
      
Phread
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Re:BEL and road bonus Sat, 07 April 2012 00:38
The maths above don't make sense.

For an infantry unit starting on a road and remaining on a road BEL can give 9 hex movement, 3+1 for initial move, 1 for taking the ground 3+1 for second move. 4+1+4 = 9 or it did when I went to school.
      
stevens
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Re:BEL and road bonus Sat, 07 April 2012 01:35
My thought is that the road bonus is not awarded for each movement but rather for the turn.Hence 8 hexes not 9.
      
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Re:BEL and road bonus Sat, 07 April 2012 06:02
stevens wrote on Sat, 07 April 2012 03:35

My thought is that the road bonus is not awarded for each movement but rather for the turn.Hence 8 hexes not 9.


I would have to disagree...the main reason is because the rules for Road hexes say, "Unit that starts its move on a Road and stays on it may move 1 additional hex." Because it says "starts its move" instead of "starts its turn", I think that the BEL unit can move an additional hex each time it moves and because it moves twice in a turn it can use the benefit twice.

But I can also see your view on the issue. This might be something I'll need to check with Richard on to make sure. Smile

[Updated on: Sat, 07 April 2012 06:03]

      
50th
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Re:BEL and road bonus Sat, 07 April 2012 17:35
I would agree with Rasmussen, I remember somewhere in the forum this has been discussed before. But so far I couldn't find it. But the point came down in that thread that there was a possibility of a movement of 9 with a BEL card.

I did manage to find this quote from R Borg:

Roads (TP p.5)
Movement: An ordered unit that starts on a Road hex, moves along the road and ends its move on a Road hex may move 1 additional hex this turn on the road.

Examples: Infantry may move 2 hexes on a road and still battle and 3 hexes with movement bonus and not battle.

(RB) Infantry that may move 2 hexes and still battle follow this same rule.

On an Infantry Assault card, infantry may move 3 hexes on a road and still battle, or 4 hexes and not battle.

(RB) Infantry that may move 2 hexes and still battle follow this same rule for an Infantry Assault card.

Enjoy!
Richard Borg

From May 6 2006

It makes since that this would also apply to the BEL card!

[Updated on: Sat, 07 April 2012 18:14]

      
JFKoski
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Re:BEL and road bonus Mon, 09 April 2012 18:11
The Online game gives you the road bonus on the first move, not the 2nd.
      
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Re:BEL and road bonus Mon, 09 April 2012 18:46
JFKoski wrote on Mon, 09 April 2012 20:11

The Online game gives you the road bonus on the first move, not the 2nd.


Are you sure? I haven't tried it lately, but it ran in my mind that it gave both bonus movements. For example, if I move 4 hexes on a road and attacked, I could move 4 hexes back into my original spot... Rolling Eyes

But you've probably tested this more recently than me! Razz
      
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Re:BEL and road bonus Mon, 09 April 2012 22:33
JFKoski wrote on Tue, 10 April 2012 04:11

The Online game gives you the road bonus on the first move, not the 2nd.


This could be an online game bug Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation
      
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Re:BEL and road bonus Tue, 10 April 2012 00:04
Phread wrote on Mon, 09 April 2012 16:33

JFKoski wrote on Tue, 10 April 2012 04:11

The Online game gives you the road bonus on the first move, not the 2nd.


This could be an online game bug Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation


Is it only a bug if you don't like the answer...?



Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Laughing
      
Phread
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Re:BEL and road bonus Tue, 10 April 2012 01:16
My point is that the online game can not and should not, yet, be used as an alternate FAQ with respect to rule implementation.

The online game is not yet complete. There are examples where the rules are not completely or correctly implemented in the online game.

Just because the online game does something in one way does not always mean that this is the correct implementation.
      
JFKoski
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Re:BEL and road bonus Tue, 10 April 2012 07:15
Don't I know it!

I've pretty much given up playing SFTF. I don't think they've fixed any known problems in some time. I think the last thing they fixed was where a unit in cover could ignore a flag by Air Strike, when it shouldn't. Maybe our #1, HamonSerrano knows when that happened, since it affects his game, Red Barricades.

It is indicative to see how the Online game implements rules. We just figured out that the Jungle/Hedgerows entry rule overrides the Ski Troops/Snipers/French Resistance move-and-shoot rule, though FR+IA+Jungle is broken.
      
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Re:BEL and road bonus Wed, 11 April 2012 02:22
The Faq p39 says:

inf movement when ordered by BEL:

examples: roads:

"a unit that starts on a road hex and remains on a road the whole turn may move 1 additional hex"

/-> read 2 things here:

stays on a road the whole turn !?

so the entire move must be on a road to get the bonus hex ?

"If so you can not do a 3 on road +1 hex and then get offroad in the second move !? " Rolling Eyes

it clearly says 1 hex per turn

The road bonus normaly speaks as an extra hex per move.

The faq on pg 39 limits this extra to 1 per turn, not per move, since the first overrules the second !

A new question arrises: " should you play the extra hex in the first move or can you chose to play it in the second ? "

      
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Re:BEL and road bonus Wed, 11 April 2012 04:03
Flemish_Havy wrote on Wed, 11 April 2012 04:22

The faq on pg 39 limits this extra to 1 per turn, not per move, since the first overrules the second !

A new question arrises: " should you play the extra hex in the first move or can you chose to play it in the second ? "




As the author of the FAQ, I can say that I was not being careful to match my language to the original rule book because I didn't foresee this question coming up. I suspect that the original rule-writer did the same thing (wasn't as careful about the exact wording) because they didn't think about this situation.

As such, I will need to contact someone higher up to get Official clarification of the rules and I will place the answer in the upcoming FAQ Supplement update. Smile
      
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Re:BEL and road bonus Wed, 11 April 2012 11:17
rasmussen81 wrote on Wed, 11 April 2012 04:03

Flemish_Havy wrote on Wed, 11 April 2012 04:22

The faq on pg 39 limits this extra to 1 per turn, not per move, since the first overrules the second !

A new question arrises: " should you play the extra hex in the first move or can you chose to play it in the second ? "




As the author of the FAQ, I can say that I was not being careful to match my language to the original rule book because I didn't foresee this question coming up. I suspect that the original rule-writer did the same thing (wasn't as careful about the exact wording) because they didn't think about this situation.

As such, I will need to contact someone higher up to get Official clarification of the rules and I will place the answer in the upcoming FAQ Supplement update. Smile


Dir sir Rasmussen, it is humanly almost impossible to forsee every possible twist off the mind, but thats what makes things intresting isnt it ! Shocked

If you ask me you already did a fantastic job ! Cool

The only thing we need right now ASAP, is a second Faq supplement to clear out some new brainbreakers that came up ! (its bin a while again since the last one) Rolling Eyes

And to secure your job, many thx to this active community that will come up with some more questions later, for a 3th Faq edition and hopefully many others following up new expansions for our beloved game ! Very Happy

Keep up the good work, but dont forget to keep on playing yourselfs ! Yes, this is a challenge ! Twisted Evil
____________________________________________________________ _____

Regarding the original question:
--------------------------------_

When i read trew all answers and taking into account the "rules for road movement toward getting an extra hex in your move ", as this ruling was originaly intended, per move.

To make the rule most simple to understand and to use for all, i feel it would be in our best intrest, to look at every move off a BEL seperately ! When you stay on the road that ' move ', look at the rules for road movement and you will see if you get the extra hex to move or not. Rolling Eyes

It most makes sence this way, i feel personaly, it will clear out all off the above questions. It also implements the biggest element off surprise this way. It is also the only possible way to get back to your original spot.

Taking 'taking ground' rules into account and how this is done for all units, that has nothing to do with the road move and is an extra in its own rulings. Rolling Eyes

When reading 'Winter Combat Rules', you could even ad 'combat cards' to your turn (unlimited as the winter rules say) !
And this way, ad extra hex(es) also ! Rolling Eyes

Still, if we look at every ' move ' in the BEL seperately, the extras can be added up also, as they are discribed and intended on the combat cards ! Smile (I gess the same would count for urban combat cards)

Darn, i found me other ones already for Faq sup 3 Rasmussen ! Laughing

[Updated on: Wed, 11 April 2012 12:02]

      
50th
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Re:BEL and road bonus Wed, 11 April 2012 17:30
Flemish_Havy wrote on Wed, 11 April 2012 04:17

rasmussen81 wrote on Wed, 11 April 2012 04:03

Flemish_Havy wrote on Wed, 11 April 2012 04:22

The faq on pg 39 limits this extra to 1 per turn, not per move, since the first overrules the second !

A new question arrises: " should you play the extra hex in the first move or can you chose to play it in the second ? "




As the author of the FAQ, I can say that I was not being careful to match my language to the original rule book because I didn't foresee this question coming up. I suspect that the original rule-writer did the same thing (wasn't as careful about the exact wording) because they didn't think about this situation.

As such, I will need to contact someone higher up to get Official clarification of the rules and I will place the answer in the upcoming FAQ Supplement update. Smile


Dir sir Rasmussen, it is humanly almost impossible to forsee every possible twist off the mind, but thats what makes things intresting isnt it ! Shocked

If you ask me you already did a fantastic job ! Cool

The only thing we need right now ASAP, is a second Faq supplement to clear out some new brainbreakers that came up ! (its bin a while again since the last one) Rolling Eyes

And to secure your job, many thx to this active community that will come up with some more questions later, for a 3th Faq edition and hopefully many others following up new expansions for our beloved game ! Very Happy

Keep up the good work, but dont forget to keep on playing yourselfs ! Yes, this is a challenge ! Twisted Evil
____________________________________________________________ _____

Regarding the original question:
--------------------------------_

When i read trew all answers and taking into account the "rules for road movement toward getting an extra hex in your move ", as this ruling was originaly intended, per move.

To make the rule most simple to understand and to use for all, i feel it would be in our best intrest, to look at every move off a BEL seperately ! When you stay on the road that ' move ', look at the rules for road movement and you will see if you get the extra hex to move or not. Rolling Eyes

It most makes sence this way, i feel personaly, it will clear out all off the above questions. It also implements the biggest element off surprise this way. It is also the only possible way to get back to your original spot.

Taking 'taking ground' rules into account and how this is done for all units, that has nothing to do with the road move and is an extra in its own rulings. Rolling Eyes

When reading 'Winter Combat Rules', you could even ad 'combat cards' to your turn (unlimited as the winter rules say) !
And this way, ad extra hex(es) also ! Rolling Eyes

Still, if we look at every ' move ' in the BEL seperately, the extras can be added up also, as they are discribed and intended on the combat cards ! Smile (I gess the same would count for urban combat cards)

Darn, i found me other ones already for Faq sup 3 Rasmussen ! Laughing


I may have misinterpreted this, but I read on page 39 of the FAQ "So basically, an Infantry unit is allowed to go anywhere it could legally go in 6 one-hex movements"
Maybe the key is "6 one hex movements"


      
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Re:BEL and road bonus Wed, 11 April 2012 17:36
50th wrote on Wed, 11 April 2012 11:30

I may have misinterpreted this, but I read on page 39 of the FAQ "So basically, an Infantry unit is allowed to go anywhere it could legally go in 6 one-hex movements"
Maybe the key is "6 one hex movements"



Yes, it MAY be the key. In which case if the unit was ONLY traveling on a road it would get one extra hex for a total of 7 hexes. If it battled and took ground along the way this would push it up to 8 hexes (granted ALL this movement is on Road Hexes). But I can not figure 9 hexes.

So to answer the original question:
tank commander wrote on Fri, 23 March 2012 18:55

As per the FAQ Supplement:

An infantry may get the road bonus if "a unit that starts on a Road hex and remains on a road the whole turn may move 1 additional hex."

So, can the extra road hex be applied to either 3 hex BEL move?

In other words can I move 4 road - then 3 road or 3 road - 4 road - my choice?


I think the answer is YES, Your CHOICE.

[Updated on: Wed, 11 April 2012 17:40]

      
Almilcar
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Re:BEL and road bonus Wed, 11 April 2012 20:44
Hello,

adding more inputs.

FAQ - Page 14
Quote:


Q. If an Infantry unit is ordered with the Behind Enemy Lines card and stays on the road for the entire turn, does it get the extra hex of movement?
A. Yes. An ordered unit that starts on a Road hex, moves along the road and ends its move on a Road hex may move 1 additional hex; the BEL card does not change that.

      
Flemish_Havy
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Re:BEL and road bonus Wed, 11 April 2012 20:54
Almilcar wrote on Wed, 11 April 2012 20:44

Hello,

adding more inputs.

FAQ - Page 14
Quote:


Q. If an Infantry unit is ordered with the Behind Enemy Lines card and stays on the road for the entire turn, does it get the extra hex of movement?
A. Yes. An ordered unit that starts on a Road hex, moves along the road and ends its move on a Road hex may move 1 additional hex; the BEL card does not change that.




i think you got the jackpot Jaime, it s there black on white !

Gents, did we find the sollution or what ? Shocked
This is also exactly how the move is done in MM44OL ! Rolling Eyes

[Updated on: Wed, 11 April 2012 20:57]

      
Phread
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Re:BEL and road bonus Wed, 11 April 2012 23:13
Flemish_Havy wrote on Thu, 12 April 2012 06:54

Almilcar wrote on Wed, 11 April 2012 20:44

Hello,

adding more inputs.

FAQ - Page 14
Quote:


Q. If an Infantry unit is ordered with the Behind Enemy Lines card and stays on the road for the entire turn, does it get the extra hex of movement?
A. Yes. An ordered unit that starts on a Road hex, moves along the road and ends its move on a Road hex may move 1 additional hex; the BEL card does not change that.




i think you got the jackpot Jaime, it s there black on white !

Gents, did we find the sollution or what ? Shocked
This is also exactly how the move is done in MM44OL ! Rolling Eyes


I don't think this is the final answer.

My question is, and remains, does a unit ordered with a BEL that remains on a road for both BEL movements move one extra hex in each movement?.

The above quote can be interpreted to apply for each movement phase of the BEL order, thus allowing a BEL ordered unit to make 2 road movements of 4 hexes. This is how I would interpret the rule. An advance after combat (on the road) would mean a total 9 hex move.
      
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Re:BEL and road bonus Wed, 11 April 2012 23:51
P. 14 FAQ Original Document
Quote:

Q. If an Infantry unit is ordered with the Behind Enemy Lines card and stays on the road for the entire turn, does it get the extra hex of movement?
A. Yes. An ordered unit that starts on a Road hex, moves along the road and ends its move on a Road hex may move 1 additional hex; the BEL card does not change that.


I think that is your answer Phread. The extra hex of movement not two extra hexes of movement.
So 7 hexes on the road if NO taking Ground and 8 hexes possible if taking ground.

But as far as Tank Commander is concerned:
I think he may take the 1 hex during his first movement or his second; his choice.

[Updated on: Wed, 11 April 2012 23:54]

      
    
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