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Buidheo
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March 2007
Etiquette Sun, 25 August 2013 00:24
I thought I would post something to get peoples' feedback on etiquette when playing online. Generally, when I am playing for fun online (not a tournament) with a relatively random person, I play as if I was sitting across the table from them with a fun game at home. So, what does this mean? Well, a few things.

1) If I invite, I pick the lower %win side to play first.
2) If I am only planning to play one game, I say so at the start.
3) When my opponent's luck is absolutely brutal, I acknowledge it. I do when I am playing with friends face to face, so I do on line. "Bad luck old chap" or "You got hosed" or whatever, but I indicate that I understand.
4) When there is a final medal to win, and there are options for combat that do not impact on the final medal shot, I do not drag out the game and take shots to rack up my kill count. In a tournament, fine, but I would not do that across from my friend, so I don't do it online, nor do I expect it from others. This is especially the case if my luck has been absurdly bad and have been thrashed. I find this a pretty ignorant thing to do - very much of a "screw you" mentality. I know that some people will argue that the tie breaker on the match is body count, but seriously, if you are that antisocial that you "lay it on" in cases like that, I don't want to play you socially.

I had an interesting chat with a french player (friend) who informed me that I am a pariah in the French threads due to my attitude on this - I can read French, but choose not to sift through these threads. So be it. I just wanted to make my point and see what the feedback is like.

If the overall consensus is that we should all behave like every game is a world championship, then fine. I'll have to reconsider my position. But I hope that is not the case.

Comments very welcome.

Keep your barrels warm...
      
sdnative
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Colonel

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February 2009
Re:Etiquette Sun, 25 August 2013 02:41
If I am playing a 2 game match I will try to kill as many units as possible..
I have had matches come down to just 1 figure, besides it only takes a minute or less to fire all of your possible units.

I do not think that is being anti-social I love to chat with my opponent but I love to compete and try to show good sportsmanship.

[Updated on: Sun, 25 August 2013 02:45]

      
sam1812
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August 2006
Re:Etiquette Sun, 25 August 2013 04:16
Buidheo, I've played you many times, and always found you to be a perfect gentleman (and an extremely dangerous opponent).

I'd have to assume that some of your commiserations may have been misinterpreted as having some sort of disparaging tone.
      
sdnative
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Re:Etiquette Sun, 25 August 2013 06:50
sam1812 wrote on Sat, 24 August 2013 19:16

Buidheo, I've played you many times, and always found you to be a perfect gentleman (and an extremely dangerous opponent).

I'd have to assume that some of your commiserations may have been misinterpreted as having some sort of disparaging tone.



Ditto
And you like Rush so you cannot be all that bad Cool Cool
      
van Voort
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Re:Etiquette Sun, 25 August 2013 07:30
1) If I invite, I pick the lower %win side to play first.

If you are planning to play two games then this is irrelvent is it not?

2) If I am only planning to play one game, I say so at the start.

I will continue to hold my corner against anyone who maintains that 2 games is the default.

Not everybody who plays this game posts here or even reads here; so people should remember that.

1 game or 2 is what you should establish before you play the first game.

No one should be making assumptions.

3) When my opponent's luck is absolutely brutal, I acknowledge it. I do when I am playing with friends face to face, so I do on line. "Bad luck old chap" or "You got hosed" or whatever, but I indicate that I understand.


I have apologised if the dice have been on my side.

Again some people find that annoying.

Some people even find it annoying to be wished good luck before we start.

4) When there is a final medal to win, and there are options for combat that do not impact on the final medal shot, I do not drag out the game and take shots to rack up my kill count. In a tournament, fine, but I would not do that across from my friend, so I don't do it online, nor do I expect it from others. This is especially the case if my luck has been absurdly bad and have been thrashed. I find this a pretty ignorant thing to do - very much of a "screw you" mentality. I know that some people will argue that the tie breaker on the match is body count, but seriously, if you are that antisocial that you "lay it on" in cases like that, I don't want to play you socially.

I disagree

You train the way you fight.

Of course I play fast

If you are taking your time to consider how to convert "Mate in 1" to "Kill as many dudes as posible then Mate in 1" then that's a different matter.
      
JJAZ
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Re:Etiquette Sun, 25 August 2013 09:38
I always like to start by saying hi and good luck it feels awkward not to do so.
The figure count is part of the game if you play both sides, and I find it logical if my opponent goes for the most kills, after all its the way the game was designed, Some players I know would find I make an error if I do not the same.
If I invite I let my opponent choose the side he wants, but as mentioned its only important if you play 1 side only.
I met and played many French players, I'm sure they do not find you a pariah.

J.
      
Jeronimon
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Re:Etiquette Sun, 25 August 2013 10:04
I have not played you many times, but in the few instances I didi I also always found you to be a perfect gentleman (and an extremely dangerous opponent).

You do tend to be "vocal" in the lobby if someone did not behave. Very Happy


1) If I invite, I pick the lower %win side to play first.
I could not care less who picks what side. Anywhere anytime anyplace is my motto. If an opponent wants to try to beat me with the "good side" and then leave, so be it. If I manage to win from the bad side that will get on his nerves even more, no? Twisted Evil

2) If I am only planning to play one game, I say so at the start.
That is greatly appreciated and would befit every gentleman or lady to do so.
I agree with van Voort that there is no obligation to play two games. Yes, we consider it "good form" to do so. But especially new players do not know this. Patience is indeed a virtue.

3) When my opponent's luck is absolutely brutal, I acknowledge it. I do when I am playing with friends face to face, so I do on line. "Bad luck old chap" or "You got hosed" or whatever, but I indicate that I understand.

I totally agree with this sentiment. I know I appreciate it when my opponent acknowledges my bad fortune.

4) When there is a final medal to win, and there are options for combat that do not impact on the final medal shot, I do not drag out the game and take shots to rack up my kill count. In a tournament, fine, but I would not do that across from my friend, so I don't do it online, nor do I expect it from others. This is especially the case if my luck has been absurdly bad and have been thrashed. I find this a pretty ignorant thing to do - very much of a "screw you" mentality. I know that some people will argue that the tie breaker on the match is body count, but seriously, if you are that antisocial that you "lay it on" in cases like that, I don't want to play you socially.

I tend to agree, and go for the fast kill before racking up the body count. One exception: if it is the end of the second game and the medal count is even. I do tend to go for the extra kills to get the match win.
      
Buidheo
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Re:Etiquette Sun, 25 August 2013 14:45
All very nice responses from experienced players whom I respect. I think I will have to adjust my thinking on the body count issue. It is just not something I would do with a friendly match - competitive and friendly are not, in my view, mutually exclusive. My group of friends are all ruthless players, but we don't prolong games for the sport. I guess I just have to see that some people play for body count as an accepted part of the game. It is just a bit annoying when you have rolled 20% infantry and your opponent takes pot shots at you to beef up the kills.

Any other etiquette discussions would be welcome.

Also, I talked to the DOW guys at GENCON - I wouldn't hold our breaths for any significant development in the next while. The ipad seems to be keeping their attention.
      
Jaykay2010
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Michael Wittmann

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Re:Etiquette Sun, 25 August 2013 15:15
If it has been agreed to play BOTH sides, then i would definately play for the extra figures on the last turn before securing a 'dead cert' final medal .. in both battles.

If has been agreed to play just one battle, then I would end the game quickly with the crucial medal.


If it hasn't been agreed beforehand how many battles are being played, then i would destroy the extra figures before securing the final medal again ... just in case !


Smile Smile


      
Dietrich von Kleist
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Total Victory

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Re:Etiquette Sun, 25 August 2013 15:54
And remember, in the end the gentleman officer always get's the girl. Smile

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j383/DiederC/officer_zpsb2c86f5d.jpg
      
Albanrey
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Re:Etiquette Sun, 25 August 2013 16:09
Hello Buidheo,

I'm the player you play with and played the figure of the discord.

Excuse my poor english, but I will try to respond to your post and explain my point of view, with no angry at all, beacause sincerly, I'm not a nervous person.

First of all. I don't consider you as a pariah and I think no one in the french forum do so.
It's a game and I don't want to be ennemy with anyone for a game.

On the french forum, I explained the situation I live with you with a kind of kiddings, (thinks like : "I prefered to quit before you manage to put your hand and through the computer and strangle me", or "Days of wonder should warn the players and tell them it's not for nervous persons that could better knitting").
Afterthat, a few player told me I was right to play the figures and that wasn't unfair, even for a freindly game. Another player said he had the same story with you and choosed to ignore you as a player, and a third player spoke for you and told to the communauty you are a good and fair play player.
I answered that I noticed that and I will never refuse another game with you. For me the incident was finished and gave us a small debate about playing or not playing figures, and the mind in the game.

In this story, it's your reaction about my behave, that astonished me and I wrote it in the french forum. It was the first time it happenned to me. You looked very very angry about my behave. Too much in my opinion.
I first even thought you were kidding.

I played a few games of M44, and I don't have your experience, but I met many hard players. No hello, no good bye, always complaining about their dice or cards, criticising the victory of their challenger, complaining again about his luck, saying bad words, leaving the match before it ends and after winning with the strong side, and so on.
I never got angry for those behaviours.
I stayed calm and quiet.
It's not serious for me. Again, it's a game and doesn't deserve to over react about an unfair behave.

At your place, if I was schoking by the behave and wonder why, I asked my challenger quietly why he did so, but after his explain, I said ok and that's all. If I juged this behave unfair, I didn't play again with him, but I didn't "shout" after him with my fingers on my computer.

Personnally, online, with somenone I don't know, I generally play the strong side first (not like you), because in case of victory of me, an unfair challenger will play easily the return match.
I never complain about dice and cards, never criticize or minimise the victory of my challenger beacause his luck, and exactly as you do, when during the game I see he's unlucky, I say it to him.

I admit that all our game (Mont-Mouchet) was fair, until the last turn of the second match. I wrote in the french forum that you had awful dice and I felt you boiling about that, but with a kind of british contain.

Finally, why I play the figure during a game ?
Because, for me, a game is 2 matchs.
Days of wonder gives the victory of the game counting the medals and the figures in case of equality.
When I don't play in a tournament, I training myself (and I need it believe me, because I'm not a strong player) and I play the 2 matchs with fair play, but I do my best and try to win the game (victory on the 2 matchs).
That was the only reason of my behave. I didn't want to drag out the game at all. I just did it to be sure to win the game. And it seems to me that winning the battle is the goal of the game.

I add that there's a friendly challenge beetween generals and colonels, a kind of tournament. I thought you were aware about that. It's obviously for fun.

I understand your point of view. Out of a tournament You play cooler. But I noticed for myself that I play differently the game when I play it like you do. And in tournaments I noticed that I was less efficient. So I would like to be better and for that, improve my level. How ? By training in playing as I would do in a tournament, against strong challengers. Now, I only play this way, in tournament or for fun.

If we meet again on the online, I will accept a game with you with pleadsure, but please, don't be angry if I play figures.

Sincerly

Albanrey

      
Buidheo
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Re:Etiquette Sun, 25 August 2013 19:34
Merci pour le response. Yes, for sure I got upset when people play for figures after an especially bad luck game, and based on the responses from many people, I shouldn't. So, I won't. I won't play that way (unless of course, it is in a tournament), but I will not react if someone else does. Different people have different views - I saw it as a "F*** you" reaction by people, but I guess this is not the case (for most, although I have found some who do). It is just not at all how I would play for fun with my friends but different people have different friends, I guess.

Mais je pense qu'il est bon d'avoir cette discussion et s'il vous plaît, accepter mes excuses pour ma réaction.

A la prochaine.

[Updated on: Sun, 25 August 2013 19:35]

      
Albanrey
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Re:Etiquette Sun, 25 August 2013 20:19
Dear Buidheo,

I'm very happy of your reaction.

You don't have to excuse yourself, because I understood that your are a gentleman.

I promise, that next time we play together (it was the second time for Mont-Mouchet), I will please you and not play for the figures.

You're right to explain your point of view. It allowed a debate on this very interresting subject.

See you soon with pleasure on the field.
      
Vlec
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Stiff Upper Lip

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February 2010
Re:Etiquette Sun, 25 August 2013 23:18
It's nice to have discussions about etiquette, as intentions over the internet and chat can always be interpreted much more differently than the intention. I don't have many games played online here but here is how I would respond to your thoughts:

1) If I invite, I pick the lower %win side to play first.

I don't do this as I usually intend to play two matches as it gives both players a kick at each side, but I don't see an issue with doing this either.

2) If I am only planning to play one game, I say so at the start.

It's nice form to do so in my opinion even though I don't necessarily do it myself, but again I think the vet players generally do play two matches. I guess think twice when playing new players, give them some info Smile I benefitted from some strategic, tactical and functional advice by some players with more experience than I....I played about 40 matches before I realised you could right click to get terrain/unit info LOL

3) When my opponent's luck is absolutely brutal, I acknowledge it. I do when I am playing with friends face to face, so I do on line. "Bad luck old chap" or "You got hosed" or whatever, but I indicate that I understand.

Every one here gets crappy cards or rolls and its always nice to acknowledge when things are going poorly.

4) When there is a final medal to win, and there are options for combat that do not impact on the final medal shot, I do not drag out the game and take shots to rack up my kill count. In a tournament, fine, but I would not do that across from my friend, so I don't do it online, nor do I expect it from others. This is especially the case if my luck has been absurdly bad and have been thrashed. I find this a pretty ignorant thing to do - very much of a "screw you" mentality. I know that some people will argue that the tie breaker on the match is body count, but seriously, if you are that antisocial that you "lay it on" in cases like that, I don't want to play you socially.

To me in friendly matches, I go for the win, I don't count kills for anything unless they count for something I am unaware of....but in a tournament, you go for any advantage but still play as a gentleman or lady...be polite and friendly Smile

Good luck all Smile
      
    
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