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OLE Masimo
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T2R FEUd Cup 2009 Winner

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November 2004
Re:NATIONS CUP GROUPS AND PAIRINGS Wed, 11 September 2013 18:20
SOS Truckerteller schrieb am Wed, 11 September 2013 10:45


- 4 groups in stead of 3, how does this come about ?
Sysyphus: "I just read that the official rules state that we will have 4 groups with 23 players, but I think 3 groups and 12 teams advancing is much better"
Truckerteller: "Yes, I agree, much better, let's do that"
Sysyphus: "OK, I'll change the wiki page"



hmm - old rule said 4 groups, 16 teams in KO. I don`t see what is so much better with 12 teams advancing. Uneven number of groups always cause problems as Drake and Onyx mention. On the contrary 16 teams to start KO is an ideal number. Just to say - those that made up the initial rule were no stupids either.

But what bothers me more is that rules are changed instantly without prenotice and just on the decision of two/three players.

Even though this is a minor rule change and doesn`t matter that much - still I would like to know what part of the rules we can rely on? For example: Will you change the bo5/bo7 rule if you feel like it, or the tiebreaker rule? Do you just go along and change what YOU think should be changed?

A thought that I don`t at all like. I know that Sys and Truck just try to do the best, but who says that they will do that for all upcoming events? Besides the aspect that another TD might not do so, there always stays the sorrow feeling that decisions are biased.
      
Qorlas
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Re:NATIONS CUP GROUPS AND PAIRINGS Wed, 11 September 2013 18:57
b05/b07 rule was not already changed last year?
      
OLE Masimo
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Re:NATIONS CUP GROUPS AND PAIRINGS Wed, 11 September 2013 19:06
just an example, Qorlas - basic question was:

"which rule is safe from sudden changes?"
      
ACP Miguel
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Re:NATIONS CUP GROUPS AND PAIRINGS Wed, 11 September 2013 19:17
Considering next year.

I dislike that fact that the groups and pairings had the condition of trying to avoid teams from same countries to play in RR.

Sorry if i'm not correct and that didn't happen but from the fast reading i made i believe that it was taken into consideration when making the groups.

I honestly don't see any logical argument that can justify that. It's a competition. Its unfair that Group 1 gets easier just because there's already 2 teams from one nation.

Enjoy NC Smile
      
Sysyphus - Pommard
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Re:NATIONS CUP GROUPS AND PAIRINGS Wed, 11 September 2013 19:32
OLE Masimo wrote on Wed, 11 September 2013 10:20



hmm - old rule said 4 groups, 16 teams in KO. I don`t see what is so much better with 12 teams advancing. Uneven number of groups always cause problems as Drake and Onyx mention. On the contrary 16 teams to start KO is an ideal number. Just to say - those that made up the initial rule were no stupids either.



12-23 is just the best combination between fun and competition.
Having a longer Round Robin help establish a stronger hierarchy and more matches (more Fun) for everybody.
16 out 23 does not give much credit to the Round Robin.

I feel like you take any change personnally.

Quote:


But what bothers me more is that rules are changed instantly without prenotice and just on the decision of two/three players.


Rules are ?
1. One case becomes instantly a general behavior...
2. Still, discussion was open a while ago.
3. I don't like to have a whole schedule in jeopardy just because people are not able to take a decision.
4. When I throw the board away after concertation with other TD's, I did not see any forum riot...

Quote:


Even though this is a minor rule change and doesn`t matter that much - still I would like to know what part of the rules we can rely on? For example: Will you change the bo5/bo7 rule if you feel like it, or the tiebreaker rule? Do you just go along and change what YOU think should be changed?


1. Again, you seem to find a pattern in one decision of that kind.
2. All other changes were experimented in Fusion, discussed afterwards in the forum, and promulgated in accordance with the process. Hard to be more transparent...

Quote:


A thought that I don`t at all like. I know that Sys and Truck just try to do the best, but who says that they will do that for all upcoming events? Besides the aspect that another TD might not do so, there always stays the sorrow feeling that decisions are biased.


If taking decisions is being biased, then I don't understand anything. Being non-biased by not taking decisions is a plague.

Again, discussion was open 2 months ago, and people start to discuss matters (not to say complains), 2 days before NC.

[Updated on: Wed, 11 September 2013 21:09]

      
ATN Drake
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March 2006
Re:NATIONS CUP GROUPS AND PAIRINGS Wed, 11 September 2013 21:14
Sysyphus - Pommard wrote on Wed, 11 September 2013 10:32

2. All other changes were experimented in Fusion, discussed afterwards in the forum, and promulgated in accordance to the process. Hard to be more transparent...


I think everything was done pretty well, except the 2 changes that were made kinda sudden. The non-"snaking" of the seeding, and the moving of nations to even them out.

I assume in Fusion, the seeding was a "snake", I tried looking back and couldn't tell how it was done. So Truck's way of seeding is new. There was no tournament that 'tested' out this new method. Last year's NC was a snake, and I assume all the NCs before that?

Yes, there was a thread about it, and I posted in it, and was still pushing for a draft, and not till the very end did Sysy say it was too late to implement that, which is fine, but then I didn't get a chance to get back to the seeding issue.

As for the evening out of the nations, I probably would be fine with it, but I would have written out a specific way of doing it that wouldn't leave any room for a TD/TO decision, it would be mechanical.

One reason to bring these issues up now, is this is the only time change gets made - might not happen til next NC, but open a discussion about NC after NC or 2 months before NC, and only about 5 people contribute.

For this year, if the team captains are fine with the seeding, then let's just play.

      
AAA_dea1
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T2R Nation Cup 2007 Winner

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September 2005
Re:NATIONS CUP GROUPS AND PAIRINGS Wed, 11 September 2013 21:48
@scheduling with different time zones:

We had a suggestion long ago (that never made it to the rules), saying that you have to offer at least one date in the opp's "good time" (= some evening in the other player's time zone).

It's probably not possible to have that as a rule, but I ask all players to do that if at all possible.

In return I ask the players from "the other side of the ocean" to understand, that this may only be possible on weekends.
      
Qorlas
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Re:NATIONS CUP GROUPS AND PAIRINGS Wed, 11 September 2013 23:12
Agree with Dea,

the big trouble in these cases is that European evening is equal to lunch early afternoon for USA

while american evening is full night for Europeans
Some times I scheduled early morning for me 7, 7.30 and midnight for americans but works fine only with west coast.
      
AGT-DN
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November 2006
Re:NATIONS CUP GROUPS AND PAIRINGS Tue, 17 September 2013 21:01
To all Captains:

>> Tiki Player List << is updated!

Please check your team, especially name spelling and time zone info.

If anything has to be corrected, please pm me!
      
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