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ISOisNo1
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OMG, why the Storch?!! Wed, 05 September 2007 23:29
Cant have Blitzkrieg without the Stuka!

Or maybe there will be another expansion including the Stuka, Sturmovik etc...surely for at least another 40 Euros.

      
Chairman7w
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Thu, 06 September 2007 00:49
I'm betting we'll see the P-51 Mustang in the first expansion too.

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SlotraceDK
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Thu, 06 September 2007 09:48
What about bombers?
B-17, B-24, Lancaster, Heinkel and so on?
      
50th
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Sat, 08 September 2007 17:14
Slotracer wrote on Thu, 06 September 2007 02:48

What about bombers?
B-17, B-24, Lancaster, Heinkel and so on?


I Really thought that an air expansion would be bombers. Not fighters, although some of the fighters were dual roll fighter/bombers. A good example of this was the P47.
The P-47 gradually became the USAAF's best fighter-bomber, carrying the 500 pound (227 kg) bombs, the triple-tube M-8 4.5 inch (115 mm) rocket launchers, and eventually HVARs. From the invasion of Europe on June 6, 1944, to VE day on May 7, 1945, the Thunderbolt destroyed 86,000 railway cars, 9,000 locomotives, 6,000 armored fighting vehicles, and 68,000 trucks.

But bombers would make the BIG difference to the ground campaign. But, maybe they would make TOO big a difference. Maybe a sortie of bombers could take out a whole group of enemy units in adjacent hexes. But I have to agree, OMG, why the Storch? Maybe I'll collect more information on the Storch and get back to this thread.
Found the info, it is as follows:

Fi 156 Storch
Type Reconnaissance & communications
Manufacturer Fieseler
Maiden flight 1936
Introduced 1937
Primary user Luftwaffe
Produced 1937-1949
Number built Over 2,900
According to what I read on Wikipedia it was a very short takeoff and landing aircraft. It could take off in less than 100 ft, and land in less than 80. Even less if it was directly into the wind.

What this aircraft would have to do with Memoir 44, I don't know. Later versions WERE armed with a MG 15 machine gun in the rear for defense.

[Mis à jour le: Sat, 08 September 2007 17:35]

      
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Sat, 08 September 2007 17:50
Slotracer wrote on Thu, 06 September 2007 00:48

What about bombers?
B-17, B-24, Lancaster, Heinkel and so on?


Bombers wouldn't play an active role in a battle directly. They were usually used ahead of the battle to soften up the targets (Caen for example was heavily pounded before the ground assault began).

To simulate it in the game would have to only be some kind of first turn thing if anything at all.
      
yangtze
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Sat, 08 September 2007 18:18
Storches were known to to be able to land moving backwards if flying into a strong headwind! How can you not want a plane that can do that??? Laughing

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CptJack
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Sat, 08 September 2007 18:24
A possibility... the Storch might be used to expose camouflaged units.
      
50th
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  Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Sat, 08 September 2007 18:54
CptJack wrote on Sat, 08 September 2007 11:24

A possibility... the Storch might be used to expose camouflaged units.


It not in the "Official Rules" this would be a good house rule. What would the range of such a detection be do you think?
      
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Sat, 08 September 2007 19:10
yangtze wrote on Sat, 08 September 2007 09:18



Time spent in recce is seldom wasted. Just ask Malcolm Wink


He speaks the truth! My wife knows a thing or two about this as well Wink
      
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Sat, 08 September 2007 19:13
Purely a guess... (but then, this whole subject at the moment is a guess!)

Range won't be a factor (only the presence of the aircraft on the board); rather, one of those two command cards will dictate how many units (maybe in a player selected section?) may be attempted to be spotted. Given that there will be no direct fire against aircraft and given the relative speed of the aircraft, I wonder if their presence will be somewhat abstracted.

It seems as though some of the other aircraft included were also used for recon. (Another point is that several of these planes were based on aircraft carriers.)

I still wonder Confused whether or not there will ever be more than one aircraft on the board at one time... the description states "... & their in-flight stand" (singular?).

Maybe Monday will bring us an answer or two on the blog.

[Mis à jour le: Sun, 09 September 2007 02:25]

      
beagleblue2
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Sun, 09 September 2007 04:22
Seems odd we are not seeing almost exclusively ground attack types . . .

P47s would make more sense than P40 for a games based on 1944, Sturmoviks instead of Yaks, Stukas instead of 109s or the Storch? Hurricanes, Temests or Typhoons instead of Spifire, etc.

No?
      
yangtze
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Sun, 09 September 2007 08:51
The Spitfire VC and IX and later versions all could be used as fighter bombers and all saw service throughout the war. The VC carried up to 500lbs of bombs and the later versions up to 1000lbs.

[Mis à jour le: Sun, 09 September 2007 09:05]

      
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Sun, 09 September 2007 14:20
id like to see a lightnig... my fav british plane after the spits Smile
      
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Sun, 09 September 2007 23:06
Roobarb wrote on Sun, 09 September 2007 07:20

id like to see a lightnig... my fav british plane after the spits Smile

Hey Roob,

How's it going? I've been busy lately and haven't been online much. Man, I can't wait for these plane rules.

When you say Lightning, are you talking about the P-38? It had a great design and took on a fighter/bomber role. Did the RAF use P-38s extensively in Europe? If they did, I'm sure those guys gave the Germans a fit and flew the hell of them even though they were not as nimble as the Spits. During the Cold War you guys flew the awesome Lightning jets. That plane was like a rocket with fins. The fuselage reminds me of Soviet MIGs. If you're talking about these Lightnings, hey I'd like to see those, too! Maybe move M44 into the mid-to-late 20th century for some "what if" campaigns!

On that note, I'm working on a big campaign map with Europe and the UK represented. With some house rules for transports and other support ships, forces could move during campaign turns while individual battles will be played out using M44 units and boards. It's just a few rough sketches for now. I'm waiting on the plane rules to see how the air elements on the campaign map would work.

ss

      
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Sun, 09 September 2007 23:26
hay silentshadow Smile not to bad Exclamation you Question ...... Embarassed......ops when i sed lightnig i was thinking the de havilland mosquitob35 a bomber that worked like a fighter mainly made out of wood nick named the wooden wonder ..you know the it Question and those cold war lightnings were very cool Smile

[Mis à jour le: Sun, 09 September 2007 23:37]

      
50th
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  Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Wed, 12 September 2007 17:07
I have a possible use for the Storch. What if you were playing a scenario with a Heroic Leader (TP pg 9) and you needed to move him to a different location? Or if he was surrounded and needed to rescue him before he is taken out? Hey, it might work!
      
SlotraceDK
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Fri, 14 September 2007 09:23
Brummbär wrote on Sat, 08 September 2007 17:50

Slotracer wrote on Thu, 06 September 2007 00:48

What about bombers?
B-17, B-24, Lancaster, Heinkel and so on?


Bombers wouldn't play an active role in a battle directly. They were usually used ahead of the battle to soften up the targets (Caen for example was heavily pounded before the ground assault began).

To simulate it in the game would have to only be some kind of first turn thing if anything at all.

I wouldn't mind that!!! Very Happy
      
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Fri, 14 September 2007 12:15
Roob, your post about the Mosquito brought back childhood memories of glue and Airfix kits. Great airplane.
      
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Fri, 14 September 2007 17:45
yangtze wrote on Fri, 14 September 2007 11:15

Roob, your post about the Mosquito brought back childhood memories of glue and Airfix kits. Great airplane.


yup you got me Nod it was the airfix modle that got me in to the mosquito i think holding it in youer hand realy helps you get a feel for an aircraft it the mosquito is a work of art in the same way as a spitfire
obtw ive got some old "BATTLE and VALIANT picture weekly" comics from 77 it has some geat airfix ads Razz do you remember dick emery being club presedent of the airfix modellers club Surprised
      
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Fri, 14 September 2007 17:47
lol - you should post up a scan.
      
kaptainkobold
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Sat, 15 September 2007 00:35
50th wrote on Wed, 12 September 2007 16:07

I have a possible use for the Storch. What if you were playing a scenario with a Heroic Leader (TP pg 9) and you needed to move him to a different location?


Operation Oak (the rescue of Mussolini) actively featured Storchs as I recall.

      
50th
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  Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Sat, 15 September 2007 02:03
That's where I got the idea! That would be a good use of the Storch.
      
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Sat, 15 September 2007 09:14
Maybe the Storch is a favourite of one of the designers, or maybe they had too much margarita'a to drink.
I think all the other planes are perfect, they are all very iconic and famous fighter planes from the war. The P-38 lightning was maybe not even nececary.
One can debate over having the P-51 mustang (maybe the best plane of the war) instead off the F4U Corsair, which was only deployed in the pacific theatre. Instead of the Messerschmitt BF 109 maybe the Focke Wulf FW 190, which was more or less it's succesor.
There can be no debate about the Stuka. It played a vital role during the blitzkrieg and on the eastern front. There was no other plane like it.
I can't believe they put the Storch in the airpack.

hopefully it will be in the next airpack, together with the Junkers Ju 52 and the Dakota.
      
yangtze
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Sat, 15 September 2007 10:08
The Storch is iconic. A famous and important German aircraft.
      
ISOisNo1
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Sat, 15 September 2007 12:54
yangtze wrote on Sat, 15 September 2007 08:08

The Storch is iconic. A famous and important German aircraft.


But the Storch was not a combat airplane. I dont know if they are including the model just for one or two commando scenarios in the spirit of the Mussolini rescue.

I think DoW would sell more copies of the expansion if they included FW-190, Ju87 or Me-262 (late war scenarios).
      
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Sat, 15 September 2007 13:15
I know what you mean, but it was used in combat situations for rescue and recon...
      
Tyto_Alba
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Mon, 17 September 2007 14:26
yangtze wrote on Sat, 15 September 2007 10:08

The Storch is iconic. A famous and important German aircraft.


no, it isn't. i never had heard of this airplane before.
one can easily compare it to today's cessna. it has no role on the battlefield.

      
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Mon, 17 September 2007 15:59
Tyto_Alba wrote on Mon, 17 September 2007 13:26

yangtze wrote on Sat, 15 September 2007 10:08

The Storch is iconic. A famous and important German aircraft.


no, it isn't. i never had heard of this airplane before.
one can easily compare it to today's cessna. it has no role on the battlefield.




Question Question Question Question Question Question Question Question Question Question Question Confused Confused Doubtful
      
rasmussen81
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Tue, 18 September 2007 01:03
Well, I have to say, in defence of the M44 designers...I have yet to be disapointed by their games, expansions or rules. There is always a reason for the rule they have or the unit they choose and I'll bet there is a reason for the airplanes they chose as well.

You can only have one airplane on the board at a time, so if they filled the pack with all fighter-bombers, or all fighters, it wouldn't matter what you chose because they would all be doing essentially the same thing. There has to be planes with different roles so you have to stop and think before you choose the plane you want to use (unless it's outlined in the briefing). Cool

[Mis à jour le: Tue, 18 September 2007 01:04]

      
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Tue, 18 September 2007 15:07
Tyto_Alba wrote on Mon, 17 September 2007 13:26

yangtze wrote on Sat, 15 September 2007 10:08

The Storch is iconic. A famous and important German aircraft.


no, it isn't. i never had heard of this airplane before.
one can easily compare it to today's cessna. it has no role on the battlefield.




Laughing

"no, it isn't" might have been better phrased "no, is it?", but no matter. I'm sure many people on this forum have never heard of Edwin van der Sar, but both you and I know how famous and important he is, Tyto_Alba Wink
      
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Tue, 18 September 2007 15:52
yangtze wrote on Tue, 18 September 2007 09:07

"no, it isn't" might have been better phrased "no, is it?", but no matter. I'm sure many people on this forum have never heard of Edwin van der Sar, but both you and I know how famous and important he is, Tyto_Alba Wink


...but I'd have to say that Edwin has likely saved more than Storch ever did Laughing
      
Roobarb
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Tue, 18 September 2007 17:43
okay im lost who is edwin van sar Confused
      
CptJack
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Tue, 18 September 2007 23:36
Edwin is the keeper for both the Netherlands national team and Manchester United (football... soccer in the USA); and save 'em he does!
      
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Tue, 18 September 2007 23:43
CptJack wrote on Tue, 18 September 2007 22:36

Edwin is the keeper for both the Netherlands national team and Manchester United (football... soccer in the USA); and save 'em he does!


oh so no one important then Laughing
      
CptJack
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Wed, 26 September 2007 16:27
Roobarb wrote on Tue, 18 September 2007 17:43

CptJack wrote on Tue, 18 September 2007 22:36

Edwin is the keeper for both the Netherlands national team and Manchester United (football... soccer in the USA); and save 'em he does!


oh so no one important then Laughing


Against Chelsea it would seem that your comment was correct... he was hardly noticed on the pitch! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
      
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Wed, 26 September 2007 16:32
Torres on the other hand... Cool
      
CptJack
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Wed, 26 September 2007 16:34
Looks are though we'll have a more complete answer to "the question" at the next post: Kamikaze, Recon & Rescue...

Rescue??? ...maybe Moose-a-leen-ee ??? although funeticly corekt (maybe!) ... I don't think I'd care to try to compose my posts that way... Smile
      
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Re:OMG, why the Storch?!! Wed, 26 September 2007 16:41
yangtze wrote on Wed, 26 September 2007 10:32

Torres on the other hand... Cool


... was spectacular! The back four and the keeper were not... you might say, "Reading and waiting" for him! But, I think Torres may need a well-deserved rest after that performance Twisted Evil (one could only wish!)
      
    
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