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eric
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Online vs Offline Wed, 23 September 2009 19:47
Just a quick note re Online vs Offline competitive play.

It remains to be seen - and we look forward to the day where we can test in the real world Very Happy - whether the best online players also turn out to be the best offline players or not.

Based on our own experience observing a large number of offline and online games played at a competitive level (and not just for Ticket to Ride but also for other games), it is not clear that would be the case.

We all agree, I think, that the very best champions should be versatile players, capable of playing at a high level regardless of medium (offline or online), and regardless of format (in terms of both number of players and type of map played).

eric

      
thekid
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Re:Online vs Offline Wed, 23 September 2009 19:58
eric wrote on Wed, 23 September 2009 13:47


It remains to be seen - and we look forward to the day where we can test in the real world Very Happy - whether the best online players also turn out to be the best offline players or not.



A year or two ago one of the guys who came in 3rd in some US championship event played here and struggled mightily, he turned out to be a decent 1500ish player, nothing more.

So let's test it, before the US champ heads over to the World championships, have him/her stop in Jersey, we can play at Newark airport. I'll wager whatever you want.
      
eric
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Re:Online vs Offline Wed, 23 September 2009 20:01
One more thought:

What seems certain is that even the most tenacious offline T2R player will be unlikely to ever have played as many games (20,000 games and counting, at the last count - possibly quite more now) as the most prolific online player unless they happen to be one and the same person, of course.

eric
      
eric
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Re:Online vs Offline Wed, 23 September 2009 20:11
theKid wrote on Wed, 23 September 2009 10:58


A year or two ago one of the guys who came in 3rd in some US championship event played here and struggled mightily, he turned out to be a decent 1500ish player, nothing more.



And the opposite might also hold true. It's not clear that the best online players would necessarily fare best in a day-long offline tournament.

In any case, this is something that we will have a chance to test first-hand once we have both offline and online tournaments running effectively.

In the interim, we will remain focused squarely on running our first championship successfully in its current format; that's already plenty to keep us all busy here Rolling Eyes.

eric
      
eric
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Re:Online vs Offline Wed, 23 September 2009 20:15
theKid wrote on Wed, 23 September 2009 10:58


So let's test it, before the US champ heads over to the World championships, have him/her stop in Jersey, we can play at Newark airport. I'll wager whatever you want.


Since you live in the US, it is enough easy to test without changing any rules. Very Happy

Just register in any one of the qualifying events we'll run in North America. If you win all your games, you will have your answer... and be the one flying to Paris for the World championship as a bonus!
      
thekid
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Re:Online vs Offline Wed, 23 September 2009 20:37
[quote title=eric wrote on Wed, 23 September 2009 14:15][
Since you live in the US, it is enough easy to test without changing any rules. Very Happy

[/quote]

Yeah easy, if I wanted to take a 3 hour drive to Maryland and have to spend 3 days there. 3 DAYS, are you kidding me. And check the page of the con, they still aren't even sure of the map, the GM says he can be convinced to play a different map than 1910 Mega. And they are all 4 player games, definitely kingmaking possibilities in that final game. At least the one in LA that Drake talked about uses a couple of different maps and goes to 2 player for the endings.

Cmon you want to find the best TtR player, at least in the US which is a huge country, first you have to spend 3 days in a place that's not so close unless you're lucky enough to live there and then you have to go to that final destination in OH which is far from everywhere and who is gonna devote that much time away from their families.

[Mis à jour le: Wed, 23 September 2009 20:40]

      
LMT Hecki
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Re:Online vs Offline Wed, 23 September 2009 23:14
Well, in the final of the german championship 2006 were five players. Four of them are well known online players. So i think there's no big difference between online and offline competitions.
      
SKMorefield
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Re:Online vs Offline Thu, 24 September 2009 03:02
This is an interesting discussion. I do think the DoW TTR tournament is a good idea and a nice thing for them to do. However, I'm not sure I would consider it a true world championship unless it was online. I have a friend who goes to gamer conventions to play his current game of choice, the Game of Thrones card game. He traveled to Indy a month ago and won first prize... not too shabby. However, if that were my game of choice, and even if I were better than him, I would not have been able to go to Indy because I have 3 small children and a limited budget. Neither could I go to a TTR tournament several hours away. So the effectiveness of these live tournaments are mitigated by proximity and timeliness. Poor players who live close and are free can play. Good players who do not live close and/or for whatever reasons cannot make it are excluded. For these reasons I would suspect that, while there would certainly be good players there, the field would be pretty weak compared to an online event.

As far as player strength, I do not think there would be any difference between a good online player and a good live player. I have a feeling that the winners of this tournament will be online players we all know well, although there might be an exception. After all it's the same game, although I get very annoying at having to handle the cards when I play live (we use TTR as a 'starter game' to introduce friends to Eurogames).

I'm not sure I like having to play all the maps, but that's DoW's right of course. I do think it would be wrong for a regional tournament to, say, use only Marklin, or whatever. It needs to be the same all around and, really, if they can't incorporate all the games in the tournament, they should only do the basic version.


Best,
Scott

      
ATN Drake
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Re:Online vs Offline Thu, 24 September 2009 04:53
SKMorefield wrote on Wed, 23 September 2009 18:02


I have a feeling that the winners of this tournament will be online players we all know well, although there might be an exception.



I'm guessing there is a huge possibility that the winner of at least the North American portion is not a known player.

1) Format:
The format seems sketchy, and even the rules for the Los Angeles qualifier don't give me great odds of winning. First part takes the best 8 to 12 based on 3 rounds of play it seems. OK I have no problem there. The next part looks like it is going to be 2 rounds and take the top 2. Here is where it will be mostly luck - it will depend on which maps are used, whether there is kingmakering (everyone at the local convention knows I'm the best TTR player there, since I win 90% of the TTR events), do I get horrible tickets/colors/locos, how is tie breakers done (usually it is stupid like most points which we all know is a sign of ticketfiending and thus not very much skill), etc. If I get past that, then I should be able to win 2 of 3 head to head, but even that could go wrong, with bad tickets, no locos, going last each game (assuming random start), etc.

2) Locations
I don't think alot of the top US players will be going to the events. Not sure where most of them live, but most have families and probably aren't going to travel just to play in a TTR event. So if thekid, tprail, psteinx, BlackWidow, etc. don't play, then the winner will not be one of the best to represent the US. Whoever makes it to Europe will mosty likely get slaughtered then.

Edit: Playing offline is a bit different than online. Just looking at the board upside down messes me up after playing thousands of games online. Also I've failed to connect a track because not used to how all the trains look like on the board in real life.

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 24 September 2009 04:55]

      
onyx puffin MAD
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Re:Online vs Offline Thu, 24 September 2009 04:55
I find this interesting as well. But like thekid, how do I clear my calendar for 3 days away? Twice in the span of a few months? And at this late date to clear one's calendar. Good luck! What DoW will get is best players who are single or without family and can drop their schedule on short notice.

Sure would be nice to find a way to include online play. This is true especially given Hecki's point about 4 of the 5 online players making it.



      
Lord_Nibbler
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Re:Online vs Offline Thu, 24 September 2009 10:29
It will be interesting to find out. Whenever I play online I find it very similar experience to when I play it on board when it comes to competitiveness.

However offline tournaments gives the chance to get the game out and show it to others, teach them and get them on board Laughing

You never know when a regional champion could come out from a newly introduced player. In my group after a few games players are at more or less the same level.



      
LMT Hecki
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Re:Online vs Offline Thu, 24 September 2009 12:12
Maybe it's easier for online players in Germany. The tournaments are not that far.

The final competitors 2006 were:

1. Hecki
2. Neven Subotic, BVB09 or his brother, i'm not really sure; however, it was one of those online players who change their nicknames from time to time
3. maia03
4. an offline player, but he is also well known as a former Monopoly vize world champion Smile
5. kotay

I hope to see them in the next year's final again. Very Happy
      
thekid
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Re:Online vs Offline Thu, 24 September 2009 14:58
I'm not surprised Hecki, Germany is smaller in size than Montana, our 4th largest state and has a great transportation system. And look at the German page, you have 10 qualifier sites, we in the US have 4. I would be shocked if the winner of the whole thing didn't come from Germany, France, Spain or Ben/Lux if that includes the Netherlands if it doesn't then not them. Plus look in France you can go play in Paris, I get to go to Timonium, MD. Imagine trying to sell that to the wife. Hey honey lets go away for a few days and take the family. Where we going? Paris, the city of lights, OK has world class hotels, shopping and restaurants. Now try, oh honey we're going to Timonium, named after one of the elements on the periodic table, or some disease (I don't feel good I've got Timonium). Their tourism slogan is "We're not radioactive like plutonium". Honey it's a great place - shopping yeah it's got shopping there's a Super Walmart next to the cornfield, hotels - Red Roof - they'll even leave the light on for us and restaurants - how convenient a Denny's right next to the Walmart. Should I make the reservation honey? Honey??? Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

And I completely agree with Drake, except it's 2 people from the US/Canada who get to go, they will get wiped all over the board and have zero chance of winning.

And Eric, playing in person would improve some of our more perceptive players games. How you ask? Well I've played competitive pinochle and poker, the eyes tell a lot, would be interesting to see if people look at their destinations on the map and also how people hold their cards, they'll group them and aren't conscious enough of their actions and if you watch when they play their cards you'll be able to see if they are done a color or how many locos they have.

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 24 September 2009 15:10]

      
onyx puffin MAD
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Re:Online vs Offline Thu, 24 September 2009 21:51
This is in note of Eastern US regional. I wrote to person in charge of it about the TTR portion. Since it listed a 4 day conference, but one day on DoW site, I thought, well if it can be done in one weekend, maybe just Saturday and Sunday, some of us could do this. Here is the reply.

I believe the information on the Days of Wonder website (suggesting that EuroQuest is a one-day convention) is in error and needs to be corrected. EuroQuest is actually a four-day gaming convention, starting Thursday, November 12 and running through Sunday, November 15. The Ticket to Ride tournament will consist of three preliminary round games followed by two elimination rounds. The exact times of those games is yet to be determined. Based on prior years' experience, it is likely that not all the games will be on the same day so someone looking to compete in multiple games in that tournament would probably need to register for more than one day. The schedule of times for the tournaments at EuroQuest -- including Ticket to Ride -- is still in the process of being finalized; right now we hope to have something posted in early October, well in advance of the November 1 pre-registration deadline.

I do not know if DoW can help by asking them to make the TTR regional portion a 2 day event instead of 4 day. 4 days just before thanksgiving is ridiculous, even that weekend away is rough.
      
Vballman20 MAD
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Re:Online vs Offline Thu, 22 October 2009 10:01
I too believe that the US winner could be someone that is not an online player. However, I only believe this because the majority of the great US players will not be able to attend the tournaments. It is extremely difficult to take that much time off, figure out how much travel expenses will be, and justify it for a 'chance' to go to Paris.

I agree with thekid in that most of the offline players will not come close to playing at the level of most of the online players. However, there will be some good offline players attending I believe. The reason being, most of these offline players that attend these conventions are junkies...they do this as part of there lifestyle. Any game convention, tournament, they are there. So, regardless of there total TTR experience, they will have some gaming experience, and there will be some who are already looking for the tells of other players, making sure that they try not to give any, but I still don't believe they will have the experience to knock off the top European players who make it to Paris.

That being said, I have played TTR with quite a few 'experienced' offline players, and not one of them had become acquainted with the 6ers, play fast, go out fast, with longest strategy. In 2 player games and multi games on US map, I have destroyed many offline players, and lets face it... I am really not even that good. Better than many, but many whom I don't seem to play well against. But, the modes of play alternating from game to game, and not playing head to head until the finals, is where the offline players will more than likely get lucky. Playing 1910, Europe, and other expansions, allow for much more luck to be involved, especially considering the first 2 rounds are multi-player. I am quite interested to see how it turns out.

My only problem in trying to get the funding, the time away from work and family, is that I can't technically plan for more than the first trip until I know if I have qualified. Not to mention the difficulty of traveling between Salt Lake City and Denver in February...almost impossible to drive without perfect weather secondary to the crazy snow storms. Making the probability even less that I can make it, because the notice, extra funding, and extra time away can't be planned unless it is necessary... Difficult predicament Evil or Very Mad

Brad

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 22 October 2009 10:05]

      
CAT-pegaso
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Re:Online vs Offline Mon, 02 November 2009 21:48
Any news about the online vs offline topic?

I guess in Essen they where at least some well-now online players and many offline...can we now the winner?

My bet, of course, is that the winner is a good online player.
      
AAA_dea1
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Re:Online vs Offline Mon, 02 November 2009 23:18
Correct, in Essen there were some well known online players.
But as all those without a German passport were not allowed to participate, the tournament was played by only 4 people.
One of them was a good online player, and yes, he won - grats to Hecki
      
LMT Hecki
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Re:Online vs Offline Tue, 03 November 2009 20:38
Oh sorry. I posted that only in the german forum. Yes, i won the Essen tournament. I've been the only online player who started there. The first games (multi) were close. But the final (2er, best-of-three, US map) was too easy. No need to say grats.
      
*zufuR
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Re:Online vs Offline Mon, 16 November 2009 09:59
btw: there was another qualification tourney at the "Süddeutsche Spielemesse" in Stuttgart yesterday.

There were 6 participants including me.
We were divided into 2 groups of 3 players.
Starting with one game 3 player USA then one game 3 player Europe. In both groups there was a player who won both 3 player games. The two group winners played the final: one game 2 player USA.

I won the final with LA-Chi and Dul-Elp and start (120:101).
My opponent, Christophe, had LA-Mia and Chi-NO. I had to spend all my locos on 6 black, but this finally made the game as you can guess from the tickets.

      
Mr Bean
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Re:Online vs Offline Tue, 17 November 2009 18:12
So far 3 Tournaments in Germany.
Has any non-(well-known) Online-player finished above any Online-player in any of these series??

As far as i can tell from the reports the answer is .....

no Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

Placings of Online-players: 1 (4 participants), 1 (6) , 1-2-3 (12)
      
chrismmm_1987
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Re:Online vs Offline Tue, 17 November 2009 19:52
Quote:

Has any non-(well-known) Online-player finished above any Online-player in any of these series


Yes, in Leipzig ... 8 participants, two online players, rank 1 and 3.

Chris
      
chrismmm_1987
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Re:Online vs Offline Tue, 17 November 2009 19:54
double post

[Mis à jour le: Tue, 17 November 2009 19:54]

      
    
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