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Randwulf
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History is so cool... Sat, 08 December 2012 17:40
As more stuff surfaces, a clearer picture forms... maybe someday we will know it all????


http://nation.time.com/2012/12/07/pearl-harbor-2-0/?xid=gone wsedit&google_editors_picks=true
      
Zalamence
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Re:History is so cool... Sat, 08 December 2012 19:22
Cool indeed... I've been to a course where we spent many lessons speculating the causes of events like Pearl Harbor. Such fateful actions that change the lives of so many...
      
Almilcar
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Re:History is so cool... Sat, 08 December 2012 21:25
Hello,

thanks for coming up with this. Very interesting. I will delve into it in the next days.

I wasn't aware of the so-called "Operation Snow"... Amazing!

Cheers
      
clexton27
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Historien accompli

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Re:History is so cool... Sat, 08 December 2012 21:48
So we did satisfy Stalin's need for a "second front" afterall.
Laughing Rolling Eyes Shocked
      
50th
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Re:History is so cool... Mon, 10 December 2012 00:08
I have a friend that has always said that Roosevelt maneuvered the Japanese into Pearl Harbor to get the US into the war to help the British. He believes that members of our government knew the Japanese were on the way and had the aircraft lined up on the runways to demolish the older models so that newer ones could be built, as they would be needed. All but three of the ships were rebuilt and fought in WWII. I believe that those in power could have suspected what was about to happen and did nothing to allow it to happen. There is a difference in allowing things to happen and making them happen. Who knows, maybe he was right all along.

      
trumpetman52
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Re:History is so cool... Mon, 10 December 2012 05:40
There has always been discussion and theories about that.
I guess we will never know for sure.
trumpetman52
      
Randwulf
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Re:History is so cool... Mon, 10 December 2012 15:12
oh now these are just cool...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/10/world/europe/birger-stroms heim-who-aided-raid-on-nazi-plant-dies-at-101.html


http://www.necn.com/12/08/12/WW2-weapon-turned-in-during-gun -buy-back/landing.html?blockID=811359&feedID=11106


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/wings_of_an_angel_m7W8 NXNsFsgsqcf5YKPGzO
      
sdnative
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Re:History is so cool... Mon, 10 December 2012 16:19
Pearl Harbor conspiracy theories are as rampant as the JFK theories.

Roosevelt did not ask Congress to declare war on Germany Hitler made the big mistake several days after Pearl Harbor to declare war on the United States.
Wonder what would have happened had Hitler not made that blunder.
      
tank commander
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Re:History is so cool... Wed, 26 February 2014 11:28
sdnative wrote on Mon, 10 December 2012 10:19

Pearl Harbor conspiracy theories are as rampant as the JFK theories.

Roosevelt did not ask Congress to declare war on Germany Hitler made the big mistake several days after Pearl Harbor to declare war on the United States.
Wonder what would have happened had Hitler not made that blunder.


Roosevelt probably would have had a hard time getting that declaration of war on Germany at that time and perhaps for the for a while after that.

Hitler (once again ignoring sound advice) declared war on the US even though Germany need not do so under their agreement with Japan. Japan was not attacked which left Germany a solid out and war with the US at that time could (and should have) ben avoided.

So, the question is, if Germany never declared war on the US, when would the US have crossed the line?

[Mis à jour le: Wed, 26 February 2014 11:48]

      
tank commander
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Re:History is so cool... Wed, 26 February 2014 11:47
50th wrote on Sun, 09 December 2012 18:08

...and had the aircraft lined up on the runways to demolish the older models so that newer ones could be built, as they would be needed.


In second half of 1940 the US built over 1700 combat planes and 1600 trainers.

In 1941, 8300 combat planes were built along with over 9000 trainers. Most of this production came off the lines before Pearl Harbor and the destruction of those older airplanes there. Those newer planes were coming off thel ines no matter what fate fell on those already on the airfields in Hawaii.

I know some of these planes were meant to be sent as lend lease but clearly that dramatic production increase reflected the US knew it was going to be in the fight somewhere soon.

Of special note is the number of trainers built. We were gearing up for war in a big way.

I suspect that the US knew the embargos placed on Japan would push that country to attack in the Pacific. I do not believe they suspected Pearl as an immediate target but certainly deduced the Philippines would be attacked. I am sure the size and scope of the Japanese operations in those opening months took them by surprise.



      
    
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