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tank commander
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Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Tue, 17 July 2012 12:13
I just noted this addition to the Italian Royal Army Command Rules in the Equipment Pack Rules:

"When the Italian High Command rules are in effect its army starts the battle with 6 Command cards in hand. Each time a unit is lost, one Italian one Italian player's Command card is selected at random by his opponent and discarded. However the number of Command cards held by the Italian player cannot be reduced below three.

In the Mediterranean Theatre expansion rules the Italian Royal Army Rules only mention "Motorized Divisions" and "Artillery Bravery", not the above section.

Very interesting.....

[Mis à jour le: Tue, 17 July 2012 12:15]

      
Turboheizer
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Tue, 17 July 2012 14:03
For me, this sounds as if "Italian Royal Army Command Rules" and "Italian High Command Rules" are not the same and the latter only apply to certain scenarios if mentioned in the "Special Rules" section.
      
tank commander
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Tue, 17 July 2012 22:10
Turboheizer wrote on Tue, 17 July 2012 08:03

For me, this sounds as if "Italian Royal Army Command Rules" and "Italian High Command Rules" are not the same and the latter only apply to certain scenarios if mentioned in the "Special Rules" section.


No, the "Italian High Command" rule is listed under "Italian Royal Army Command Rules" in the Equipment Pack rules as are the "Motorized Divisions" and "Artillery Bravery". So it is part and parcel of that rule section. Of course, as you point out it is only in effect where noted, but that also goes for many other national rules.



[Mis à jour le: Tue, 17 July 2012 22:11]

      
djedi gamer
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Wed, 18 July 2012 10:17
tank commander wrote on Tue, 17 July 2012 12:13

I just noted this addition to the Italian Royal Army Command Rules in the Equipment Pack Rules:

"When the Italian High Command rules are in effect its army starts the battle with 6 Command cards in hand. Each time a unit is lost, one Italian one Italian player's Command card is selected at random by his opponent and discarded. However the number of Command cards held by the Italian player cannot be reduced below three.

In the Mediterranean Theatre expansion rules the Italian Royal Army Rules only mention "Motorized Divisions" and "Artillery Bravery", not the above section.

Very interesting.....


Good to hear that. There can be more situations to retreat weakened Italian forces.
      
Turboheizer
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Sat, 05 January 2013 21:42
I am now using the new Italian rules for the first time, playing some of the new maps. While this may work well with the new scenarios, I'm not really a big fan of retroactive rule changes because the earlier scenarios were designed without any knowledge of those rules and their addition may affect the balance of forces the map designer originally intended.

(A good example for the irritations possibly caused by such a rule change can be found here: http://www.daysofwonder.com/de/msg/?goto=258771#msg_258771)

Because of this, in my opinion the "Italian High Command" rule should only be used if

1.) There really IS an undivided Italian High Command (i.e. there are no German or other units controlled by the Axis player)
AND
2.) The Italian player really starts with 6 Command cards as required in the IHQ rule.

All other scenarios should be played according to the earlier rules (using "Motorized Divisions" and "Artillery Bravery" only).
      
stevens
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Sun, 06 January 2013 00:46
http://static.memoir44.com/lang/english/images/mm_compendium_nation_6.jpg

Another thing that would help to be clarified in the Italian Rules is:
Does the player with the Italian units CHOOSE which card to discard or does his opponent?
      
sam1812
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Sun, 06 January 2013 03:07
Turboheizer wrote on Sat, 05 January 2013 15:42

...Because of this, in my opinion the "Italian High Command" rule should only be used if

1.) There really IS an undivided Italian High Command (i.e. there are no German or other units controlled by the Axis player)
AND
2.) The Italian player really starts with 6 Command cards as required in the IHQ rule.

The Equipment Pack rule book (page 10) specifically says, in its description of the Italian High Command rule, "When the Italian High Command rules are in effect..." So that rule must be specified, just like Blitz, or stiff upper lip, or Gung-Ho.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Sun, 06 January 2013 03:21
stevens wrote on Sun, 06 January 2013 03:46

http://static.memoir44.com/lang/english/images/mm_compendium_nation_6.jpg

Another thing that would help to be clarified in the Italian Rules is:
Does the player with the Italian units CHOOSE which card to discard or does his opponent?


If the opponent got to pick the card you have to give up, it would say that in the rules! I believe the Italian player gets to discard the one he wants. Cool
      
stevens
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Sun, 06 January 2013 03:38
rasmussen81 wrote on Sat, 05 January 2013 21:21

stevens wrote on Sun, 06 January 2013 03:46

http://static.memoir44.com/lang/english/images/mm_compendium_nation_6.jpg

Another thing that would help to be clarified in the Italian Rules is:
Does the player with the Italian units CHOOSE which card to discard or does his opponent?


If the opponent got to pick the card you have to give up, it would say that in the rules! I believe the Italian player gets to discard the one he wants. Cool


I believe this is how I would play it but I wanted to see if anyone felt differently and had a good argument for it. When playing with the Headquarters &Supply Tent rules it specifically states:

Quote:

P.5 Pacific theater Rules

HQ & Supply: If an enemy unit captures your HQ-Supply tent hex, your opponent selects one of your Command cards at random to discard. Until you reclaim the HQ- Supply hex, you must play with one less Command card in hand. When you reclaim the hex, immediately draw a supplemental Command card to replenish your hand to its original size.


So I too believe that if it wasn't your choice the rules would say so more specifically.

[Mis à jour le: Sun, 06 January 2013 03:47]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Sun, 06 January 2013 04:35
Exactly! I knew there was another situation where this kind of action took place but I couldn't remember where. Smile
      
stevens
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Sun, 06 January 2013 04:56
Even the rules for
OPERATION MARKET GARDEN
spell out the specifics as to how cards are discarded:
Quote:

Briefing:
Axis Player
[Germany]
Take 3 Command cards.

Allied Player
[Great Britain / United States]
Take 13 Command cards.
You move first.

During the game, the Axis Commander-in-Chief (CinC) increases his hand by 1 Command card, drawn from the top of the Command deck, each time the Allies lose a unit; and the Allied CinC simultaneously loses 1 Command card for each unit he loses. The cards lost are drawn at random from the Allied CinC hand by the Axis CinC, and immediately discarded. All cards gained or lost during the course of a turn are drawn or discarded as each unit loss occurs, not all at turn's end. Also the Allied CinC may never go below 2 cards, and neither of the CinCs may ever go above 13.

So with no SPECIFIC rules, it seems that the Italian player decides which card to discard.

But Richard and DOW may have just forgotten to be specific! And may change their minds once we have brought it to their attention!
Rolling Eyes Twisted Evil Laughing

[Mis à jour le: Sun, 06 January 2013 05:02]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Sun, 06 January 2013 05:10
I don't think so...I don't think it's possible (or realistic) for rules to spell out every single situation and this seems like a place where if they had wanted the rules a certain way, they would have written that out. Smile
      
stevens
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Sun, 06 January 2013 06:03
rasmussen81 wrote on Sat, 05 January 2013 23:10

I don't think so...I don't think it's possible (or realistic) for rulees to spell out every single situation and this seems like a place where if they had wanted the rules a certain way, they would have written that out. Smile


You are more than likely correct. Laughing
      
ad79
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Sun, 06 January 2013 09:02
It is mentioned in the rulebook under Italian Royal Army Command Rules :

"When the Italian High Command rules are in effect its army starts the battle with 6 Command cards in hand. Each time a unit is lost, one Italian one Italian player's Command card is selected at random by his opponent and discarded. However the number of Command cards held by the Italian player cannot be reduced below three.


      
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Sun, 06 January 2013 09:33
ad79 wrote on Sun, 06 January 2013 12:02

It is mentioned in the rulebook under Italian Royal Army Command Rules :

"When the Italian High Command rules are in effect its army starts the battle with 6 Command cards in hand. Each time a unit is lost, one Italian one Italian player's Command card is selected at random by his opponent and discarded. However the number of Command cards held by the Italian player cannot be reduced below three.





Perfect!! See...it says specifically in the rules how to play this. Very Happy

Good find, ad79. What a great idea to look in the rule book!! Razz
      
Quit2
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Sun, 06 January 2013 10:32
well, you all could just have read the initial post. It quotes that rule.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Sun, 06 January 2013 10:45
Quit2 wrote on Sun, 06 January 2013 13:32

well, you all could just have read the initial post. It quotes that rule.


Embarassed Razz Good point! Confused
      
Turboheizer
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Sun, 06 January 2013 11:04
Now that it is cleared how the cards of the Italian player are discarded, allow me to return to my original point:

Quote:

The Equipment Pack rule book (page 10) specifically says, in its description of the Italian High Command rule, "When the Italian High Command rules are in effect..." So that rule must be specified, just like Blitz, or stiff upper lip, or Gung-Ho.


That was my understanding a few months ago (see my postings above), but I don't think so any longer. All scenarios with Italian troops that were published with the Equipment Pack or the Christmas Bonus only mention that "Italian Royal Army Command rules are in effect (Nations 6 - Italian Royal Army)". All these maps have the Italian player beginning with 6 Command cards, and in my opinion, it is clearly intended that the "Italian High Command" rules are automatically included. I now concur with tankcommander's opinion from the summer:

Quote:

The "Italian High Command" rule is listed under "Italian Royal Army Command Rules" in the Equipment Pack rules as are the "Motorized Divisions" and "Artillery Bravery". So it is part and parcel of that rule section.


So, as it seems, the IHQ rule should be always used when Italian Army Command Rules are in effect. Now let's assume you are playing an older scenario from the Mediterranean Theater expansion or the Battle Maps and the rules state that Italian Army Command rules are in effect (Hellfire Pass, Bir Hakeim, Coastal Road, Raid on Barce), what do you do? I don't think it would be appropriate to use the IHQ rule in these cases, because:

1.) In the maps from the MTO expansion, the Axis player controls more German than Italian units.
2.) In "Raid on Barce", the Italian player begins with only 4 Command cards.

For me, I have decided (as already stated above) to use the IHQ rules only when the Axis forces are exclusively Italian AND the Italian player begins with 6 Command cards.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Sun, 06 January 2013 11:16
Very well explained, Turboheizer!! Smile I understand your confusion and I think your solution is a logical one. I haven't played the new scenarios (since most of my Memoir '44 stuff is in America and I'm in the United Arab Emirates) so I hadn't run across this yet. Razz
      
stevens
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Sun, 06 January 2013 21:48
rasmussen81 wrote on Sun, 06 January 2013 04:45

Quit2 wrote on Sun, 06 January 2013 13:32

well, you all could just have read the initial post. It quotes that rule.


Embarassed Razz Good point! Confused


REALLY GOOD POINT!

Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed
Is my underwear (age) showing. Now I know I need to get more sleep at night.
Laughing

[Mis à jour le: Sun, 06 January 2013 21:48]

      
Sgt Storm
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Tue, 08 January 2013 20:56
Turboheizer wrote on Sun, 06 January 2013 05:04


...
So, as it seems, the IHQ rule should be always used when Italian Army Command Rules are in effect. Now let's assume you are playing an older scenario from the Mediterranean Theater expansion or the Battle Maps and the rules state that Italian Army Command rules are in effect (Hellfire Pass, Bir Hakeim, Coastal Road, Raid on Barce), what do you do? I don't think it would be appropriate to use the IHQ rule in these cases, because:

1.) In the maps from the MTO expansion, the Axis player controls more German than Italian units.
2.) In "Raid on Barce", the Italian player begins with only 4 Command cards.

For me, I have decided (as already stated above) to use the IHQ rules only when the Axis forces are exclusively Italian AND the Italian player begins with 6 Command cards.


My solution to this type of problem (when rules change) is to play the official scenarios with the rules that were in effect when the scenario was designed and tested. That's easiest for me, but probably not possible for a newer player not familiar with all the changes. If we had two separately numbered and named Nations cards, then this would not be an issue.

In the future it might be prudent for DOW to either,

a) Create a new card when a rule is changed and the old rule is still to be used with older scenarios (as they did for late war special weapons assets),

or

b) Publish somewhere that the old rule is now obsolete (a rules change summary could be added to the FAQ).

This would not be for my benefit (I don't really care), but for new players that could be totally confused by this.
      
JFKoski
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Mon, 24 June 2013 18:39
I was thinking of playing Beda Fomm lately (Italians vs British) but it's really unbalanced; Allies win 72%.
The original unclassified version: Italians start with 4 cards;
the classified (but otherwise identical) version: Italians start with 5 cards.

Several scenarios versus Italians are weighted towards the Allies, so the Italians could use a bonus card or two for a few turns to even the odds.

I don't think it's a problem to use the latest Nation Rules with such scenarios.
For instance, the Online game has set Knightsbridge to use British figures and BCF rules. Even so, a Battle Back doesn't occur very often in my games (Recently we got 4 in a SFTF, which is probably the most I've seen).

So if we went with British and Italian nation rules for Beda Fomm, I don't think it will make much difference, since the Italians will soon be down to 5, 4, then 3 cards anyway, and might lose a good card they were hoping to play.

Naturally, if the side is mixed (Germans with Italians) I would not use Italian Command Rules.
(EDIT: I've changed my mind for two scenarios where the Germans don't start on the board but come out as reinforcements.)

Some of these scenarios feature the Italians vs the French. In that case, I'll use French Army rules:
http://cdn0.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/img/mm_compendium_nation_7.jpg


OFFICIAL SCENARIOS, PRE- EQUIPMENT PACK:
Beda Fomm, 72% Allies; Italians 4/5 cards - British 6 (Feb. 1941).
Gallabat & Mettema, 69% Allies; Italians 4 cards - British 4 (Nov. 1940, East Africa: Sudan/Ethiopia border).
Raid on Barce, BM#4, 66% Allies; Italians 4 cards - British 5 (Sept. 1942). All 6 British units are Patrol Cars.
Oath of Kufra, 53% Allies; Italians 4 cards - Free French 6 (Feb. 1941, S. Libya). One Italian Patrol Car, one oasis.
The Rescue of Mussolini, Italians 2 cards (draw 2 first two turns like Pegasus Bridge) - Germans 6 cards. (Sept.1943). Air Rules-Storch.

EQUIPMENT PACK AND E.P. BONUS SCENARIOS
Battle of Nezuet Ghirba; Italians 6 cards - British 5 (BCF) (1940, Egypt).
#4 Yasnaya Polyana; Italians 6 cards - Soviets 5 (August 1941).
#5 Cavalry Charge at Chebotarevsky; Italians 6 cards - Soviets 4 (Aug. 1942). 4 Medals.
#6 Operation Little Saturn; Italians 6 cards - Soviets 5 (Nov. 1942).
#8 Italian Diversion at Gazala; Italians 6 cards - British 6 (BCF) (May 1942).

ITALIAN HIGH COMMAND STANDARD, POST- EQUIPMENT PACK
Battle of Agordat
,official; Italians 6 cards - British 5 (Jan. 1941, East Africa: Kenya); French Open 2013; Cavalry.
Battle of Dürres, SFTF; Italians 6 cards - Albanians 5. Machine Guns.
Battle of Moyale, SFTF; Italians 6 cards - British 5 (June 1940, East Africa: Kenya/Ethiopia border); Machine Gun & Mortar.
Battle of Monterotondo; Italians 6 cards - Germans 6. (Sept 1943, Italy after Italian surrender); Paradrops.
Battle of Himara, SFTF; Italians 6 cards - Greeks 6. (Dec 1940, Albania).

ITALIAN NORTH AFRICA SFTF by jdrommel:
El Mechili - Action 1; Italians 5 cards - British 4 (BCF); (Jan 1941); all British are tanks, one oasis.
Siege of Giarabub; Italians 4 cards - Australians 6 (BCF), (March 1941); Tournament at Le Mans.
El Mechili - Action 2; Italians 5 cards - British 5 (BCF); (April 1941); trenches, wadi.
Bir El Gobi- Action 1; Italians 4 cards - British 6 (BCF); (Nov. 1941); camouflage.
Bir Hakeim - Action 1; Italians 5 cards - Free French 6 (May 1942); French in bunkers.
Deir El Shein - Action 2; Italians 5 cards - New Zealanders 5 (BCF); (July 1942); Night Rules w/daylight Reinforcements.
Qaret El Himeimat; Italians 4 cards - Free French 5 (Oct. 1942); Night Rules w/daylight Reinforcements.
The Fezzan Campaign; Italians 5 cards - Free French 5 (Jan. 1943, S. Libya) Permanent medals for 3 Oases.

ITALIAN EAST AFRICA SFTF by jdrommel:
French Cavalry Charge: Eritrea, Jan. 2, 1941. Italians 2-4 cards like Pegasus Bridge, Cavalry, 5 Medals.
Battle of Cub-Cub: Eritrea, Feb.19-21 1941. Stone Fort, Free French.
Capture of Asosa: Ethiopia, March 11, 1941. Machine Gun, 5 Medals.
Gambela: Ethiopia, March 22, 1941. MG, depleted unit, Fordable-41.
Storm on Massawa: Eritrea, April 8, 1941. Forts (on hills), shore, marshes, Free French.
Bortaï river - Action 1: Ethiopia, April 15, 1941. MG, Fordable-41.
Bortaï river - Action 2: Ethiopia, April 24, 1941. MG, Mortar, Fordable-41.
Bortaï river - Action 3: Ethiopia, June 8, 1941. MG, Mortar, Fordable-41.
Mogi Pass: Ethiopia, June 9, 1941. Machine Guns & Mortars.
The Fall of Saïo: Ethiopia, July 3, 1941. MG, Fordable-41.

EUROPE SFTF by jdrommel:
Perati Bridge; Italians 5 cards - Greeks 5. (Oct. 1940) Big Gun in mountains.
Battle of "La Seigne" Pass; Italians 6 cards - French 4.(French Alps-June 1940)
Battle of Gela; Italians 5 cards - Americans 6. (Sicily - July 1943) 2 Destroyers.

OVERLORD SFTF by jdrommel:
Klisura Pass; Italians 10 cards - Greeks 10 cards. (Jan. 1941)

[Mis à jour le: Mon, 06 January 2014 06:49]

      
JFKoski
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Sat, 13 July 2013 16:16
Since writing the above:
I've played the following scenarios (on Vassal) with Italian High Command Rule (starting w/6 cards) even if they were not originally designed for 6. Also, I changed my mind: I figured one or two German tanks weren't enough to disqualify Italian High Command Rule.

I've changed my posts, to break them down by category.

OFFICIAL ITALIAN SCENARIOS, PRE- EQUIPMENT PACK
Revisited with Italian High Command vs BCF or Free French rules.


Beda Fomm (vs The Railrodder): Being able to retreat more than 1 per flag helped the Italians in both games some. (ITALIANS 6-2)
--->Rematch: When he was BCF he got 1 roll which hit my tank. (ALLIES 6-2)
+
Beda Fomm (vs Gonzalan in Sept): I lost 3 critical cards (two Counter-Attacks and Attack-C) in this 5-Round game. I had a chance to win it but Barrage only scored 1 hit on 2-fig inf. (ALLIES 6-5)
--->Rematch. On Round 3 (of 8) Italians scored 3 kills with TFH, then British scored 3 kills to tie with Armor Assault, discarding 3 Italian cards on the same turn! Once tied at 5, Italians used their Nation's ability for artillery to ignore one of two flags on baseline, giving them another turn. Though tanks were gone, Italians still had a chance to win by killing a tank, but dice failed. British scored the second artillery hit. Only Battle-Back roll was a flag. (ALLIES 6-5)
+
This is a fierce and quick North African Desert tank battle. Exit is there, but no one got close in 4 games, since tanks move 0-2. Italian Flag rules are helpful, but would it be better for them to have 4 or 5 cards the entire game?


Gallabat & Metemma (vs The Railrodder): Italians w/6 cards had more options to fight back and even charge up their Left. British scored an Ambush-kill. Italian Flag Rules allowed a 1-fig inf to back up 3, and ignore-flag saved the wounded art in the open from an Armor Overrun and possible loss of game. (ITALIANS 4-3)
-->Rematch: British scored an Ambush-kill. (ALLIES 4-1)
+
Gallabat - Metemma (vs Gonzalan in Sept.): Air Rules + Italian Army and BCF rules. Allies drew an Air Sortie after their first turn and brought in plane on 2nd, after Italian plane took off. Two Strafing runs plus shots by tank killed inf in town, clearing his Left section (Sudan-side) of all but enemy plane, which Strafed tanks. Italians let their plane go then British, so we thought planes were done. Allies brought tank onto bridge, but Ambush killed it. Italians didn't use Their Finest Hour when they had good opportunity so British discarded it when they got their next kill! Italians drew and played Air Sortie to Strafe artillery on baseline, but wouldn't kill it. British Counter-Attacked to strafe infantry on their Right hill (Ethiopian-side) 3x for the win, after killing inf in town and clearing Gallabat Fort and Sudanese-side of boundary-gorge. (ALLIES 4-1)
--->Rematch. Italians had Air Sortie in starting hand and Allies led with Air Power to try to catch plane on Airfield, but missed (50% chance). Allies strafed artillery again and two units but only hit 1 inf, then didn't have any Centers or Rights to keep ordering plane! Italians' Strafing plus other shots killed a 3-fig infantry for the first kill. British then got a kill on the inf that left town to shoot. (Air Sortie was not included as possible discard.) Instead of Strafing, Italian plane did a Ground Interdiction to keep my three units in place, he then let British roll a 3d Air check (42% chance to hit) instead of playing Air Sortie, which missed, then Strafed all 3 units. Starting with Ambush, then Pincer, British knocked infantry on Right-hill (Ethiopian-side) to 1-fig but would not be able to kill it! British would kill two more, clearing Sudanese-side of boundary-gorge, but got too close when trying to get 4th kill. Italians used Firefight for third kill on tank and Probe-L for win, without having to use their Air Sortie. (ITALIANS 4-3)
+
Italian High Command Rules (6 cards) gives opportunities for the Italians as does the classified version with Air Rules, while both together permit a wild battle.


Raid on Barce (vs Gonzalan): BCF rules. Getting grenades on re-rolls vs Patrol Cars seemed to matter more than # of Italian cards. Fortunately, a BCF roll didn't kill any of my lone-fig Italians, though a flag retreated one to the baseline. It came up whether Brits could play Dig-in or BEL to order one unit, like you would for a tank or artillery when there's no infantry. I said yes (but during the game he felt stuck with Medics and BEL in his hand). He won both sides. (ITALIANS 4-0) as
--->Rematch. (ALLIES 4-3)
+
Raid on Barce (vs The Railrodder in August): I forgot 3 Battle-Backs as British, but still prevailed. Both sides had ~70% hit rate, but Italians' re-roll rate was 8%! Star on 2nd Sabotage gave me my 3rd medal for Airfield. NEW: Italian High Command doesn't lose a card for an Allied medal, just units. (ALLIES 4-2)
--->Rematch: Allies used speed of Patrol Cars to block retreats and score kills on infantry and armor. Probably the only place to protect Italian tank from no-retreat would be the Oasis! I kicked him off the medal sites until I was out of Centers, and my 3rd card loss was TFH! Hit rate was 47% & 50% with a normal re-roll rate of 16%, not counting the time I rolled 2 grenades/2 dice. ALLIES 4-3.


Oath of Kufra (vs The Railrodder): w/French Army rule. As Italians I was knocked down to 3 cards (he discarded my TFH!) and French used Stay-in-Place bonus once. (ITALIANS 6-5)
--->Rematch: As French I knocked Italians down to 4 cards (I discarded his Firefight) before he won (going after his Patrol Car and failing to kill it was partly my undoing). (ITALIANS 6-2).
+
Oath of Kufra (vs Gonzalan, Aug.). As French I went for his Patrol Car first, (despite trouble last game) and killed it my 2nd turn. I then got 4h/4d to kill his inf on the oasis with 2 full units, discarding Move Out and Recon-C. Medics was a dud for me (3 flags + 3 grenades)! I had infantry Assault, so moved 2 inf to Center to set up for it, but played TFH instead of that or staying back to shoot with artillery. He seemed out of Centers and I drew TFH right back! I didn't get a kill, but his lone-fig inf retreated to airfield, then he Countered getting a kill. I played 2nd TFH for a kill, and discarded his 2nd Counter! He still had a chance to win by killing my inf and taking back the majority, but he didn't get the rolls. Though DIG-IN kept his airfield inf alive a couple turns, I finally killed it. Just 1 Stay-in-Place bonus roll. (ALLIES 6-4)
--->Rematch. 4 Round win: I moved my flank units to Center (one retreated 3), then played back-to-back Infantry Assault-Center cards (Ambush in between) for Airfield medal (w/PC) and 3 kills, then sent one back to reclaim the Fort medal. French got a Stay-in-Place hit on PC, but re-roll didn't kill. (ITALIANS 6-1)
+
Note: The Vassal version (Med 12.0) has been updated in August to show the town next to oasis and the Airfield as permanent medals. This means the Italians start with 1 permanent medal, and can easily send an infantry to the back for a 2nd permanent medal. Perhaps later, jdrommel will update this to include French Army Rules as he's done for some other scenarios.


The Rescue of Mussolini This is a wierd scenario. Up to 6 German Special Forces land by paradrop before the first turn. Italians start with 2 cards and draw 2 their first two turns to give them a hand of 4. I think this Campaign Book scenario came out before Mediterranean Theater, so doesn't have Italian Army Rules. So you can play them as plain Allies(!), w/Italian Flag rules, or with Italian High Command (since there are no Americans with them). With IHC I would suggest drawing 2 cards the first 4 turns, so if they have no losses then they would have 6 cards.
+
(vs The Railrodder in Nov.) We played with Italian Flag rules but not Italian High Command, so I'm not adding the Italian loss to the record.
--->Rematch in Dec. Played with Italian High Command and Flag rules and Prison Camp (Terrain #35) as hotel. Three failed drops hurt Germans as did a Medics that restored two to lone-fig hotel inf. One card loss didn't hurt me, since I still played D-HQ. Once down to 1 unit, Germans went BEL, but only got one hit on new full hotel unit. (ITALIANS 1-0)
+
The Rescue of Mussolini
(vs Gonzalan in Dec.) Played with Italian High Command, Flag rules and Prison Camp. Germans 4/6 drops: 1 on R, 3 on L. used Infantry Assault to get 3 untis to Center. Barrage scored 4 hits versus hotel! My leader survived unit loss twice, and I thought the time was ripe to take hotel and bring in Storch. I forgot the landed plane could be shot and he scored a flag (plane can't ignore it) to foil the rescue. (ITALIANS 1-0)
--->Rematch in Jan. Played w/Italian High Command, Flag rules and Prison Camp (Terrain #35) as hotel. Germans landed 5/6 and did nothing but hit, including 4 hits on 5 dice! They got 6 kills before Italians got one! Only mistake was getting Mussolini out of hotel before board was cleared. Italians had chance to roll 3/3 and win, but didn't. (GERMANS 1-0)
+
Even if all Italians are killed (like in last game), they still may have a chance to use Barrage when plane lands to destroy it (similar to what happened in previous game).

ITALIANS 9W-10L
============

When I play more Italians, I'll post here, or below. Hope to see you on Vassal, if you're interested. Some of these were not in the Vassal "choose scenario" list, but I built them from the Days of Wonder scenarios.

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 30 January 2014 07:51]

      
gonzalan
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May 2003
Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Mon, 15 July 2013 20:08
JFKoski,

Thanks for the excellent posting and analysis of said scenarios using the new Italian rules of start with 6 cards and lose up to 3 upon death of a unit!

Thoroughly enjoyed the battles and most interesting for sure, rules for Italians definitely make you think as to how to play your cards knowing you could lose a good/great one under penalty of death! And yes, it does happen!

As for Medics / BEL, just tend to forget about the just play and discard part of the game, guess at times focus on the fact of if I have the card I have to play them as intended! Will have to read the fine print as a reminder!

As for the one with patrol cars, just tough stuff, 1st have to get a hit and then a grenade in a re-roll, but it happens as well, as my 4-0 victory proved!

Think they played just fine and yes, sure to see you out on the battlefield once again!



      
JFKoski
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October 2005
Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Sat, 27 July 2013 07:03
ITALIAN HIGH COMMAND STANDARD:

Found some more Italian scenarios in Equipment Pack bonus scenarios. Thanks to Almilcar for pointing out they are available for download in Spanish under Rules and Goodies. The Equipment Pack bonus scenarios aren't listed online, so I can't post AARs yet, as I'd like to. I'm hoping this will be corrected; it came out last December.
[EDIT: I got tired of not being able to post AARs so put a listing (but no maps, like classified) under my name in SFTF for these scenarios.]

EQUIPMENT PACK and EP BONUS SCENARIO BOOKLET:
EP #11 Battle of Nezuet Ghirba. This Equipment Pack scenario has Patrol Cars and Supply Trucks, and uses 1 die Air Power standard.

Bonus #4. Yasnaya Polyana, Commissar. This Bonus scenario has one Turn Start, Uncontested Control, Majority [i.e. Plurality] Medal for the 4 bridges and 1 die Air Power for both sides. Before getting cards, Soviet player lays 3 free sandbags.

Bonus #5. Cavalry Charge at Chebotarevsky. 4 medal-scenario. Rules: Commissar, Cavalry and 1d Air Power.

Bonus #6. Operation Little Saturn. Commissar. No rule change, so 2d Allied Air Power. Soviets can get 1 medal for an exit (2 if unit is full-strength).

Bonus #8. Italian Diversion at Gazala. Rules: 1d Air Power, BCF and NADR.


Battle of Nezuet Ghirba (vs The Railrodder in Nov.)
British got a kill on the first turn. On Round 2, Italians departed sandbags with Assault-Center to wound 2 armor to 1 fig and set up for Pincer Move, which killed them. Now out in the open, we fought on British-Left and Allies prevailed. (ALLIES 5-2)
>>>Rematch. British got a kill on 2nd turn, and put Patrol Car next to an artillery that they would later wound, but not kill. Italians departed bags with Assault-C for 1 Patrol Car kill to lead 3-1, but British responded with Armor Assault, but only got one kill. British Move Out! scored two kills in the open with Patrol Cars, but Italians finished off a 2-fig tank for the win. (ITALIANS 5-4)
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Battle of Nezuet Ghirba (vs Gonzalan in Nov.)
I only got 4 turns as Italians. I could have played Infantry Assault on the first turn to order 6 inf and 3 STs, but didn't want to leave defense while armor was on the hills, so only got to order 4 inf my 2nd turn. On my 4th turn, I used Recon to resupply so he couldn't get an easy medal for killng my 3rd ST, so no shots. (ALLIES 5-3)
>>>Rematch. Allies won on their 5th turn too, but I had weaker cards than Allies last game. I struck from the Right, then used Infantry Assault to order 3 PCs and 2 inf. Most attacks on PCs failed, and I got some Battle Back hits, but still chose to use Ambush for a kill rather than hope for a BB kill. He finally scored a PC kill on the re-roll. I set up to use Pincer Move to get my last two kills. (ALLIES 5-1)
+
This is a quick desert game (7, 9, 5 & 5 Rounds) that's not a good scenario to highlight Italian Royal Army Rules (flag & Italian High Command rules), but might look good set up with EP figures. British usually have the initiative. If this is people's introduction to Italian High Command, it's no wonder Italian scenarios aren't popular! Maybe this is why the EP Bonus Scenarios book has 4/8 with Italian High Command.


Yasnaya Polyana (Italians vs Gonzalan in Nov.)
As Italians I proceeded cautiously but still saw my tanks reduced to 1-fig, so decided to go for it. I got the kills, and he missed my tanks (at first). He finally killed one and discarded Air Power which I'd hoped to play, but had used Behind Enemy Lines for a kill instead. The end came quickly after I killed his full tank on the baseline with an armor and 2 flags for my 5th medal, then took a shot at his lone-fig inf on his Right with 1 die. I held two bridges to one, but he killed my 2nd tank there (card loss=Probe-Center) so I didn't get the Turn Start victory. Commissar couldn't order his guy to hide, so with my other Probe-C, I set up for the bridge medal if there were a next turn but killed his infantry on 1 die that turn. (ITALIANS 6-2)
>>>Rematch. Soviets had a hard time under fire from Italian tanks and artillery, and only got one kill after Italians were up 3-0. I regained the bridge medal so Italians got a 6th kill. (ITALIANS 6-2)
+
Yasnaya Polyana (vs The Railrodder in Nov.)
19-round game. Soviets killed a tank, so Germans used Mechanics on the other. When Italians were up 4-2 medals, Soviets killed the 2nd armor unit. Italians got the bridge medal (3-1) at Start of Turn and played Barrage to kill a lone-fig inf for the win. (ITALIANS 6-3)
>>>Rematch in Dec. 17-Round game. Soviets killed both German tanks in 6h/7d! Double-inf hits on 2 dice was the theme for the rest of the game (I should check Hit-%). After back-and-forth artillery shots, Italians advanced from their Left and killed their 4th unit to tie. At start of turn, Soviets lost bridge medal (1-1), but had loaded Infantry Assault, so came forward in the Center and killed a full unit on 6 dice to tie at 4. Italians cleared their Left by taking out Machine Gun, but this let Soviets get the bridge-medal back (2-1). They sent a tank across to kill a lone-fig inf (out of artillery range) on baseline with a flag. (ALLIES 6-5)


Cavalry Charge at Chebotarevsky (vs Sam1812 in Nov.)
Soviets tried to shoot artillery. Italian cavalry cleared their Right. (ITALIANS 4-1)
>>>Rematch. Soviets moved units to Center to set up for back-to-back Assault-Centers, which almost won it. (ITALIANS 4-3)
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Cavalry Charge at Chebotarevsky (vs The Railrodder in Nov.)
Italians were able to clear their Right and kill a unit on the road in 5 Rounts. (ITALIANS 4-1)
>>>Rematch. 7-Round game. (ITALIANS 4-0).


Operation Little Saturn (vs The Railrodder in July).
In both games the Russians (w/Commissar) were able to dominate in the Center. Russians took out a unit really quickly and made me discard my followup Center card. Then he got 2 kills on one turn to make me discard 2! Commissar didn't seem to hinder the Russians as he soon knocked me down to 3 cards and Air Power finished it. (USSR 7-5)
>>>Rematch: I thought he'd do much better as my first turn saw 2 infantry retreat far away, and his turn put his tanks in defensive terrain, leaving me with an Assault-Center and fewer targets. When we fought on my Right, he was able to retreat his lone-fig armor far away. I went Armor Assault for a kill and took out his artillery (for his 2nd discard that turn!). Then I headed for the exit. He chose to use BEL against my lone-fig armor for a kill, so I got 2 medals for exiting a full armor he could have shot, and my last two kills were made soon after that. (USSR 7-3)
+
Operation Little Saturn (vs Gonzalan in July).
I led my Soviets with Assault-Center with Attack-C as the followup this time. Italians seemed to have the right combo of advancing and pulling back (and Ambush) to take the lead and hold it. I then launched two Assault-Lefts in a row, followed by Close Assault(2), but even down to 3 cards he was able to play Rights and fight back. I kept going Left, tied @5, then we tied @6 as I set up for an exit win next turn. Assault-Center gave him two targets to win: 3-fig inf on his R, and 2-fig arm on baseline. The latter won it for him. (ITALIANS 7-6)
>>>Rematch. Russians went up the Left as much as possible and got an early kill which cost me a Right card. I was going BEL to block the retreat of his tank, when I noticed it had moved 3 (max=2) and had him pull it back one, and withdrew my card. I chose to use other cards for the next few turns to stop or delay him in that section. I would lose two more cards (not BEL). When I finally played it to move from the Center to my Right, he had just drawn Ambush and rolled a flag! Finally I was down to just my MG there, so went for a Center kill in the hope he was Left-out. He exited for the win. (USSR 7-5)
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Operation Little Saturn (vs Sam1812 in Feb.)
Italians used flag rules to escape several shots from Soviet's great opening cards. Even knocked down to 3 cards Italians kept fighting, killing 4 tanks. Soviets didn't get enough Lefts to try to rush for the exit. At 5 cards w/Commissar they couldn't get organized and used Recons to bypass Commissar twice, and took fruitless shots at lone-figure artillery. (ITALIANS 7-5)
>>>Rematch in March. 5 Round game. (ITALIANS 7-1)


Italian Diversion at Gazala (vs The Railrodder in July)
Italians came on strong and kept going. He killed the artillery (w/Barrage+TFH). BEL failed for both of us. When I did get a kill, I failed to discard his Barrage or Air Power. He cleared his Left section, got an Ambush-kill and ended with 3 lone-fig units. (ITALIANS 6-1)
>>>Rematch. Italians struggled to get kills, and BCF got some early taking away Attack-L, Medics and Air Power. Flags didn't help the Italians as the BCF used Barrage to kill a tank. BEL helped me get a kill but I pulled it back to a no-retreat spot, so he came out of sandbags to kill it for the win. (ALLIES 6-4).
+
Italian Diversion at Gazala (vs Gonzalan in Nov.)
6-Round game. Allies repulsed my attempt to advance on the Left and scored 3h/3d twice. At 5 medals, his 2nd TFH finished it. (ALLIES 6-3).
>>>Rematch. 8 Rounds. Italians pulled back his wounded units, while I pulled back mine. He advanced his tank in the Center to kill it but I failed to kill his tank, until later with a Battle-Back hit. I had a shot to win with 3 dice against his 2-fig inf, but didn't. He killed two on his Left to win. (ITALIANS 6-5)
+
Italian Diversion at Gazala (vs Sam_E in Dec.)
6-Round game. Italians destroyed tank with Barrage, then 3 hits with BEL, finally 3 kills with TFH. (ITALIANS 6-2)
>>>Rematch. 7-Round game. Italians got kill but lost armor. Italians went BEL vs armor, but British Ambushed then did a Battle-Back; then on UK's turn Mechanics restored armor to full so it could kill it. British increased lead with TFH (5 orders), then got the last two with Assault-Center. (ALLIES 6-2)


ITALIANS 14W-10L
=======================

POST-EQUIPMENT PACK

Battle of Agordat (vs The Railrodder): Italian Cavalry charges in darkness (Ethiopia/Eritrea) tore up a different Allied flank in each game (L&R), running behind units to block retreats and take HQ tent medal. It was fun making the Allies discard for a change! As Allies I used BB to kill the unit with leader, but he escaped to add 1d to next attacker. (ITALIANS 6-2)
>>>Rematch: (ITALIANS 6-2)
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Battle of Agordat (vs Gonzalan in Sept): Italians led with Assault-C (though I don't advise it) and took the HQ for a turn. After losing that guy, Italians went and cleared their Left. When they returned to the Center they got a no-retreat kill and did some Cavalry-Overruns and TG into HQ. This cost the Allies a card (and a die on Medics and TFH), though it was Italians who got the bad roll (0/4) for Medics and their leader's unit was killed, but he escaped to HQ unit. Battle dice failed the British starting on TFH (though he recovered his HQ), while flags helped the Italians survive long enough to get 6 kills. (ITALIANS 6-3)
>>>Rematch: In 5-round game, light never got past 2 which should have helped the Italians, who killed art on first turn, but Barrage was stuck in hand. Italians never ordered more than 3 cavalry a turn, while Allies never ordered less than three units a turn (incl. TFH 2x). Italians took the empty HQ for temp medal and a discard (missed 1/5 chance to discard Ambush) but Recon-in-Force finished it. In my over 60 games Ambush still hasn't been discarded. (ALLIES 6-3)
+
Cavalry at night seem to be one of the few good uses of this unit if you can concentrate forces and block retreats.


Battle of Dürres (vs Sam_E/Sam1812): w/2 Albanian Partisans = French Resistance units. I had to wait for the Italians to advance and had to suffer through them pulling back their wounded units, knowing I could never get them with Air Power or Barrage (denied to Albanians). Nevertheless, I had great cards (incl. TFH 2x) and it was satisfying to get kills that took away his Center cards. Machine Guns gave me 3 hits from stars. I pulled out the win: (ALLIES 6-5)
>>>Rematch in Aug: I set up for Infantry Assault-L (against his strong side), and even with Ambush, I lost 3 to gain 2 mg (the second by Barrage). Flags against Italians saved me for a time, but after I got a 3rd kill by tank on L, he played BEL to kill my lone-fig inf there. I then went Right and killed 2 but lost 1 to tie at 5. He went for my 2-fig L-tank but it retreated 2 to forest. I drew and played D-HQ, and killed a 2-fig inf (which was also on my Left). (ITALIANS 6-5)
+
Battle of Dürres (vs The Railrodder) Italians killed my inf on my Left and chased my Resistance to the back and Center. His tanks took 1d shots, so I shot and killed them over several turns. He killed 2 machine gunners, though one rolled 2 star-hits before dying. With his tanks out of the way, I could go in the open, so it was just a matter of who could get the last kill. (ALLIES 6-5)
>>>Rematch saw Albanians open with Infantry Assault-C to advance 4 inf (two MGs), catching me with a handful of Rights, and in a desperate situation to fight him off. (ALLIES 6-3)
+
Battle of Dürres (vs Gonzalan) Italians attacked from their R & C, playing Medics on lone-fig inf & pulling back 2-fig inf. I tried to strike back but Ambush-hits and flag with followup killed my inf in the open, then my BEL vs 2-fig inf in open couldn't kill. (ITALIANS 6-3)
>>>Rematch saw the Italians get bested at almost every turn: cards, dice, strategy, and he rarely rolled flags to save my wounded units. My last big play was TFH(1inf,1sta/3) when he Ambushed my surviving 2-fig arm for a hit and flag. He drew and played Firefight again which ended it. (ALLIES 6-4)
+
Normally I'm not sure about a scenario where a side on the defense can't play Air Power and Barrage, because if the attacker's patient they should be able to prevail from afar by getting these cards and BEL. The Vercors Campaign scenarios are like this, but who's that patient? Here the defenders won 4/6.


Battle of Moyale (vs Gonzalan): BCF rules (though I forgot both critical Battle-Backs). The setting is the Kenyan/Ethiopian border 1941, so there's desert forests and towns on the countryside board, which feels East-African! The Italians came forward toward my Machine Gun and Mortar, and I was able to play both Firefight and Close Assault to whittle his forces down. (Machine Gun scored 2 hits by stars, this game, before he killed it.) After getting kills, I randomly picked his Air Power and Counter-attack to discard. He ran out of Centers with 5 then 4 cards & at 3 he was frustrated. He'd allowed his wounded guys to fall way back and finally I had to go after them. (ALLIES won 6-5)
>>>Rematch: My Italians went up the Left with 3 and got killed, Ambush-retreated, killed again, then (after he killed my tank on the hill) he chased the 3rd one down to the baseline (discards: Assault-L, Probe-L, DIG-IN). He played TFH(2inf) for 2h/3d and 3h/4d for 2 more kills. I Countered(1inf/3d) which killed his inf. Later I played Recon-L and got to choose between TFH and DHQ, I chose the latter and setup for Assault-C to be followed by Close Assault. But after I drew Firefight, I didn't have to go close; killed his mortar with Assault-C, and his inf w/Firefight for a comeback win. (ITALIANS 6-5)
+
Battle of Moyale (vs The Railrodder). First 4 turns Brits had no shots, as he fled my Italians on his Left, then advanced on his Right. I shifted my tank to Center, then my Left, destroying his force there 4-1. He used Infantry Assault to flee the fort to his Left section. I had to go after him and he got two kills. Finally I got my 2-fig tank back to that section. He failed to kill it, so I moved 3 to kill his lone-fig inf in the open. (ITALIANS 6-3)
>>>Rematch. I decided to flee on my Left and advance on my Right but sent too many there, leaving my fort units vulnerable. I ran out of Rights so had to use BEL to get my 2nd kill (discarding Barrage!) 2nd movement running back to fight at the fort. He spent 3 turns (I spent 2) playing Recons to improve our hands. Afterwards, I played 2 TFH (first ordred 0/5), 3 Ambushes (a game record), as well as scoring 3 more hits from Battle Backs (4h/5bb this game) but Italian wounded retreated out or range and he prevailed. (ITALIANS 6-2)


Battle of Monterotondo
Italians play as Allies! Germans get to choose 3 paradrop sites for 3 units each.
+
Battle of Monterotondo (vs Gonzalan in Dec)
Only 5 units successfully landed - all in Center, so Italians needed only 5 kills. I took the church medal and got 3 kills to take away Italian cards (Artillery Bombard, Barrage & Assault-L), but my remaining 3 units couldn't do much and soon I was reduced to 1 in the church and it died before I could get 6th medal. (ITALIANS 6-4)
>>>Rematch. Eight of 9 drops and back-to-back Direct From HQ should have clinched it for Germans, but they missed an early kill. Italians took the lead but made a mistake leaving the church: it rolled a flag which gave the Germans 2 on their Left to kill 2, later it came back with Behind Enemy Lines for 4 hits on 4 dice against him and took church to tie at 5. But he departed the church, so Italians got their final kill in the open. (ITALIANS 6-4)
+
Battle of Monterotondo (vs The Railrodder in Dec.)
Only 5 units successfully landed, so Italians needed only 5 kills. Germans went Left for kills and got 4 grenades to kill the Train! Once up 5-2, I dumped my Right cards over several turns. Italians went after my lone-fig inf with BEL and killed it. I went after his unit, but his Ambush scored a flag, then got his 4th kill with Close Assault, leaving me 1 unit. I knocked that unit to 1, but he played TFH for 3inf/3dice to run it away. He rolled a flag that cost him a shot and retreated me to the forest so I could go after his unit. His draw after TFH was Ambush! He rolled another flag to keep me from winning. He rolled 4h/5d for his 5th kill on Round 21. (ITALIANS 6-5)
>>>Rematch. Close Assault was the first play! Germans landed 7/9 on his Right and Center and 5 were close, which got him a kill that turn and 2 more the next. It was over on Round 5. (GERMANS 6-3)


Battle of Himara
Italians vs Greeks in Albania. Towns & Forests on Hills next to Mountains, including permanent medal town of Pilur hosting artillery. No Air Power.
+
Battle of Himara (vs Gonzalan in Jan.)
The primary target of the Greeks was the artillery in Pilur, on hill. They got art and town medal, but would lose all 4 special forces. Italians at one point had three 2-fig inf on the board, but retreated the first 3 on their Right, then Greeks botched Firefight, so 2nd retreated 3 out of trench. So Greeks used Barrage to kill 3rd on Mountain. Next I advanced my artillery, and Italians got a hit on it, making it vulnerable in 2d range. I did get another hit on his 2-fig inf on my Right, but he played Medics to recover 1. I Countered to do a rare Mechanics on my artillery and scored a star on 6 dice! Soon I got another kill and set up to walk in to the saddle medal. (ALLIES 6-4)
>>>Rematch. Greeks went for artillery on Pilur, but failed. Italians scored 10 hits on first 10 dice and kept hitting. Greeks tried to go up the Right mountains for 1 kill (4 hits on 4 dice on turn), but Italians pulled back other wounded units. (ITALIANS 6-1)
+
Battle of Himara (vs Railrodder in Jan.)
Greeks went for Artillery in Pilur, killed it early and took ground for permanent medal. All other offensives by Greeks failed to get kills. They could have used Barrage to kill a lone-fig inf in back, but shot 2nd artillery instead. (ITALIANS 6-2)
>>>Rematch. Greeks opened with Barrage for 1 hit on my artillery. I countered to kill his. He sent one Elite at mine, which I Ambushed, but he still killed it with 2 flags since artillery can't retreat to mountains, the took ground into Pilur for medal. But that's all they got. (ITALIANS 6-2)


Italians: 14W-8L
=================

[Mis à jour le: Tue, 25 March 2014 04:53]

      
JFKoski
Senior Member
Historien accompli

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Enregistré(e) en :
October 2005
Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Thu, 08 August 2013 19:25
ITALIANS IN NORTH AFRICAN DESERT (SFTF by jdrommel):

I Played these as a variant with Italian High Command (start w/6 cards) vs BCF or French Army rules as noted above.

The Siege of Giarabub (vs Gonzalan): It was tough since Italians are in a defensive position that can't shoot tanks on surrounding hills (except with artillery) and may have to send troops out of shelter to force a fight, which is what happened. We both allowed an Italian unit to retreat 3 to baseline (from a flag) to do a Close Assault on our turn. I won: (ITALIANS 6-5).
>>>Rematch. I won: (ALLIES 6-5).
+
The Siege of Giarabub (vs The Railrodder, Aug). My Allied Air Power retreated 2 inf to open, and I got several flags=hits this game. I played recklessly as Australians, exposing my infantry to fire. He came out of bunkers to meet me and my first kill was due to Battle-Back roll! We kept exchanging kills, then my artillery advanced 3 by A.B. and my L-arm came out to shoot inf in the open. I got a full unit into oasis, but even if wounded it can't heal next to artillery. (ALLIES 6-5)
>>>Rematch. My Italians took the initiative on my Left starting with BEL. I would get 5 kills there! But early he killed 2 of my 3 Left units to tie @2. I used General Advance to leave cover scoring 3 hits on the baseline, but that unit fled, and soon he was up 4-3 (but didn't discard my Dig-In) before using A.B. to move art 2. He got his 5th as my hand was useless-3 Rights. I thought my last chance was to score full hits (1/1, 2/2 or 2/2) on 2 of 3 units with Recon-in-Force, but didn't kill. My art soon got a Center-kill next turn. Barrage went for my lone-fig bunker inf, but he rolled 3 tanks and a flag! This game: 1/2 on BCF rolls (both after I scored 3h/3d). (ITALIANS 6-5)
+
Oasis is pretty useless: takes Axis too long to get to and use; Allies can't use it while artillery is adjacent.


Deir El Shein - Action 2 (vs The Railrodder) w/BCF. It starts at night, and when daylight hits, the Italians can bring in 2 German tanks, 1 on each corner. It's interesting. Do the New Zealanders try to attack with artillery, brave the minefields in the Center, or go around on the flanks? Do the Italians stand and fight, or retreat 3 on a flag and hope the tanks will come to their rescue? In this game daylight came the 4th round, which saw Axis Air Power. Italians soon got 2 kills to tie, then we fought neck and neck until the end. Battle Back scored an inf hit and killed an armor while #2 mine scored 2 hits. (ALLIES 6-5)
>>>Rematch. This time the Italians came through the mines after the Brits, with Ambush ready to play, even though daylight came Round 3! He got 2 kills including my artillery! Firefight got me 2 kills, Barrage got 2 hits on L-armor on baseline, and later Air Power killed a 2-fig inf he pulled back. My artillery also got lucky with 1d shots for kills #4 & #6. Italians used Artillery Bombard to move his 3 to the L/C line, but even if he killed all my units there, that wouldn't have been enough to win. (ALLIES 6-4)
+
Deir El Shein - Action 2 (vs Gonzalan) This was not decided quickly. This time when daylight hit (Round 5), I brought my Italian tanks in immediately, so when he got a kill that round, I lost my Air Power card! He found two 0-mines; later Artillery Bombard went 3 up the hill through that gap. (ALLIES 6-5)
>>>Rematch. When I played Allies (daylight at Round 7) Axis were up 2-1. Italians allowed retreats to back up out of 2d art range. Just before I was to go into mines he played Infantry Assault and brought them back. I advanced killing two and discarding his Firefight which totally destroyed his thrust! Using TFH I braved the mines (#1 and two #4s for 1h,1h,3h!). (ALLIES 6-4)
+
Deir El Shein - Action 2 (vs Santeri/Zalamence). Something new happened this game. When Italians were up 4-0, New Zealanders played D-HQ to target four lone-fig units and killed 3, including art! So Italians had to discard 3 cards in one turn! I still had the cards and dice to win as (ITALIANS 6-4).
>>>Rematch(Sept.) I did something new as New Zealand: I drew and played Artillery Bombard to move both artillery into the mines when light=1. They each found a 0 (as did an infantry later), but Italians used Air Power to order 1 unit in Center and rolled 2 hits on 3 dice for the first kill. Not many misses this game, and he took out my 2nd artillery before it was over. He used BEL, but my Battle-Back killed his lone fig inf! My 2nd TFH ordered 0, but in the end I was able to hit his armor, then kill it on the baseline with a flag for the win. (ALLIES 6-3)
+
I enjoyed this scenario the most, so far. This is the one scenario that I think the Italians may be better off not using Italian High Command and just playing with 5 cards the whole game. Having a 6th card isn't that great since Night Attack limits Barrage and Air Power and the Allies might get 2 kills before daylight helps the Axis.
+
Note: I discovered after playing 6x that the file on Vassal shows 1 Italian artillery; the SFTF has 2 (**SIGH**). I'm sure Italians would have done better with 2 artillery. I asked and jdrommel said he didn't change his scenario. Change yours, or download latest Mediterranean extension for fix.


El Mechili - Action 1 (vs Gonzalan): Italians go first - and like other desert games it's mostly a fast tank battle. Italians got an Ambush hit, but no flag. Soon his Italians played TFH(2inf,1sta=arm/5d) to score 3 kills. After knocking down a tank and inf in open to 1 and tank to 2, I struck again but got no kills. Worse, Italian lone-fig inf in open retreated 2 to oasis and used oasis recovery to heal 2. But I soon bounced back with Armor Assault to tie at 5 (and I drew a card he needed: Art. Bomb.). Now at 3 cards, Italians were out of Centers (he played Armor Assault to order art) then I knocked Oasis-inf to 1, and his Move Out failed to heal on 3d, so I killed it for the win. (ALLIES 6-5)
>>>Rematch, another quick, luck-dependent game. A Battle-Back flag sent an armor back 3 to a hill, and 2 flags sent an armor 4 back up the road out of range (costing UK 6 more dice!). (ITALIANS 6-2)
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El Mechili - Action 1 (vs The Railrodder in August): 5-Round game saw 3 hits on 4 dice vs full Italian tanks twice in a row! (ALLIES 6-2).
>>>Rematch, 6-Round game. I forgot to ask why he went for my lone-fig inf in town when tanks were nearby (to prevent it from using oasis or to discard Italian card?). (ITALIANS 6-2)
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El Mechili - Action 1 (vs Sam1812 in Feb): Played with 1d Air Power. 6-Round game saw British hit and Italians miss. (ALLIES 6-1)
>>>Rematch, 13-Round game saw Italians in trouble once out of tanks (last fell to 3 hits on 4 dice Counter-attack of Barrage), but it took a few turns for British to finish it. Infantry on Italian's Right went out of sandbags to get kill, and artillery got another, but infantry was killed the turn it made it to oasis. (ALLIES 6-4)
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Note: The Vassal file didn't have a British medal on the town, though it is in the rules. Add to scenario or download latest Mediterranean extension with fix.


Bir Hakeim - Action 1 (vs Railrodder). Italian tanks vs French in bunkers. Italians had the initiative the whole game. French were able to discard Firefight (on 1st round) and BEL from the Italian hand, but minefields (incl. two #4s) weren't hitting strongly enough to affect the outcome. Barraged finished it. (ITALIANS 6-2)
>>>Rematach: French didn't fare any better this time; Axis dominated 5-0. Italians ended with 3 lone-fig units. (ITALIANS 6-1)
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In both games French didn't have opportunity to use its Nation 7 power. As French I thought about using Infantry Assault to attack, but the wire would be in my way. Perhaps if they had tank destroyers instead of anti-tank guns they wouldn't be so vulnerable on the defense? I don't think an extra card for the Italians mattered that much. I doubt I'll play this one again.


Qaret El Himeimat (vs Gonzalan). Scenario has Night rules and reinforcements at daylight. First daylight roll was 3 stars, which meant my French engineers taking out mines were exposed. Light went to 6 fairly quickly. I sent my tank up ASAP, but it died. I almost got a tank with my engineer, but he retreated, though I did get a Stay-in-Place hit against his full tank. (ITALIANS 5-1)
>>>Rematch: Slow light progression allowed French to go up their Right, get a kill and use Stay-in-Place for another inf hit, on his way to clearing his Right. I used Artillery Bombard to move 3 onto hill between my surviving units. Light went to 6 and he got his 3rd kill. I used Pincer Move to bring in 4 reinforcements. He knocked an inf to 1-fig, and pulled back his lone-fig eng. I used General Advance to pull mine back, while attacking and killing his tank with a flag. He killed my lone-fig inf. I went Left, rolling a hit and flag on his artillery then killed his lone-fig eng and armor overrun killed his artillery to tie at 4. (ITALIANS 5-4).
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Qaret El Himeimat (vs The Railrodder in Aug). First turn light went to 2, so I decided to use Infantry Assault to run down the hill at the French. (I had Ambush and TFH to back me up.) It worked and I scored 5 kills in 5 rounds. French got one turn in daylight. (ITALIANS 5-1)
>>>Rematch. Italians pulled their guys back behind the hills before daylight. I'd knocked a guy to 1 with BEL, but Medics put it right. At dawn (Round 4!) I unleashed Air Power (5inf + art hits). He brought his tank reinforcements in first. I had a hand full of Centers so went up the middle through gaps I cleared in mines. It was touchy for a moment as he took out my artillery and my tank on the same turn (I Countered his D-HQ then he Countered my Counter). I drew and played Infantry Assault, which scored 3 kills including a Stay-in-Place kill vs artillery! I had 4VPs and he now had two lone-fig inf. (ALLIES 5-3)


The Fezzan Campaign (vs Gonzalan). This was one of my longest game (67 Turns = 34 Rounds)- draw pile ran out and we had to reshuffle the deck. Italians took out my tank on his 2nd turn, then scored kills with BEL and Barrage. I got frustrated with him pulling back and healing wounded units, though I killed one a turn before he could heal it. The most Oasis Recovery I'd seen was 2 or 3 in a BT game; here: Italians 7x + 2 Medics & French 2x! We each got an artillery hit. Finally, he came out with 2 units by Infantry Assault-R and didn't get a kill. I Ambushed then played my own Infantry Assault-L to get two kills to clear Left, and soon got the L-oasis medal. He retreated my artillery and killed it, clearing his Left. We then fought in the Center and I got my 5th kill. He tried pulling back and healing with Medics but only got back to 2-figs. I killed it with 2d Allied Air Power. 34 Rounds = 67 card plays! (ALLIES 6-4).
>>>Rematch in Sept. with 1d Allied Air Power. As Italians I stepped out of cover to take some shots, hoping for flags. French had the cards to get a kill on his Right and send all up the Left for 2 more kills and oasis medal. I got a kill by artillery, Barrage, and BEL, but my L-recovery was a dud, and he came up the Center to kill my lone-fig inf and TG into oasis for the win. 16 Rounds. (ALLIES 6-3).
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The Fezzan Campaign (vs The Railrodder in Nov.)
As Italians I was going to stay and fight a turn in Gatroun but he rolled 2 flags on Ambush! Once vacant he used Artillery Bombard to move his artillery 3 into town so he could cover the Center and some of the flanks. 16 Rounds. (ALLIES 6-1)
>>>(Rematch.) My French opened with Barrage against artillery for no hits; Italians countered against my artillery for one hit. I did something I can't remember doing: I used Medics on artillery and healed one! Then my French went Left to clear it for 2 kills and medal. My 1d Allied Air Power couldn't kill a lone-fig inf on the baseline! Then I went Center for 2 more kills and its medal. 21 Rounds. (ALLIES 6-1)
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This scenario has 3 oases under Italian control as permanent Allied Medal sites. It's special in that usually the oases are used more than once, unlike other games with Oasis Recovery. Still the Italians are hard-pressed to stay alive and get kills.


El Mechilli - Action 2 (vs Gonzalan in Nov.) This has Wadis, exit, oasis and trenches and we used 1d Allied Air Power. There are no desert trench tiles for face-to-face play, but Vassal has them. In this game there was one Oasis Recovery, one Battle-Back miss. Allies got first two kills but that was it. Both Armors out first. (ITALIANS 5-2)
>>>Rematch. Italian armor was killed; British armor exited for 4th medal. Infantry went through exit for win. (ALLIES 5-1).
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El Mechilli - Action 2 (vs The Railrodder in Dec). We fought tank-to-tank; down to 1-fig each it looked like the Allies would kill first, but they couldn't Battle Back in Trench, and Mechanics didn't fix any tanks! I got the first kill, but he killed my tank with Firefight to tie. We exchanged kills, then Allied TFH put him in the lead. My Artillery Bombard put me in the lead with 2 kills and though he knocked two units to 1-fig each, he didn't get any more kills on his way toward the exit (though not going through Wadi). I stepped out of sandbags, rolled a flag on his full unit which gave me a clear shot at his lone-fig inf for the win. (Artillery still had 1d shot if it missed. (ITALIANS 5-3)
>>>Rematch. Starting cards mostly 2-on-Rights. Still I killed Italian tank without losing any armor figures. Then he Barraged my tank for 3 hits to kill. He was up 4-1, but I came back for 2 kills before BEL got 3 hits on 4 dice for the win. No Battle-Backs; no Oasis Recoveries. (ITALIANS 5-3)


Bir El Gobi - Action 1 (vs The Railrodder in Dec.) This scenario has 4 camouflaged Italian units in desert bunkers. Axis can't use Air Power. This was a tank battle until 3-3, then got Italian tank in Center. Without tanks and cards, Italians couldn't do much. (ALLIES 6-3)
>>>Rematch. Pretty much the same situation as above. Allies pulled back wounded tanks, so there were 4 lone-fig armor units on the board at the end. No Battle-Back rolls. (ALLIES 6-3)


ITALIANS 13W-19L
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[Mis à jour le: Fri, 07 March 2014 21:54]

      
JFKoski
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October 2005
Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Thu, 15 August 2013 05:18
I've posted elsewhere that I'm not a big fan of SFTF. I find SFTF by jdrommel to be pretty good, but some may look rough in the text. I found that some of the Italian scenarios that I've been playing are battles in Italian East Africa (Ethiopia, Eritrea, and the borders with Sudan and Kenya) up until liberation in 1941. I thought I'd move some of my reports/reviews to this new post. As I said in the other thread, Italian East African scenarios have a different look: countryside board with normal hills, but with desert roads, palm forests, wadis, etc. Not all of these were posted using this style. After asking jdrommel, he changed 4 more of his East African scenarios to fit, and the latest Vassal update matched.

EQUIPMENT PACK RULES for these games:
Italian High Command (start w/6 cards) for all games, and
French Army rules, where applicable,
Early War Machine Gun (SWAs 8-Machine Gun) was introduced in the Equipment Pack. It can move OR attack, so I substitute this rule too (for SWAs 7-Late War Machine Gun), since many of these scenarios were written after Winter Wars but before Equipment Pack.

1d Allied Air Power. I forgot, the Equipment Pack scenarios use Allied Air Power = 1d per target. I played a few of these without. But henceforth (starting 8/21), I'm using this rule for some of these scenarios (as noted and underlined below).
http://m44sed.wikispaces.com/file/view/Equipment+Pack+Air.png/445051610/Equipment%20Pack%20Air.png



EAST AFRICA SCENARIOS:
French Cavalry Charge: Eritrea, Jan. 2, 1941. Italians 2-4 cards like Pegasus Bridge, Cavalry, 5 Medals.
Battle of Cub-Cub: Eritrea, Feb.19-21 1941. Stone Fort, Free French.
Capture of Asosa: Ethiopia, March 11, 1941. Machine Gun, 5 Medals.
Gambela: Ethiopia, March 22, 1941. MG, depleted unit, Fordable-41.
Storm on Massawa: Eritrea, April 8, 1941. Forts (on hills), shore, marshes, Free French.
Bortaï river - Action 1: Ethiopia, April 15, 1941. MG, Fordable-41.
Bortaï river - Action 2: Ethiopia, April 24, 1941. MG, Mortar, Fordable-41.
Bortaï river - Action 3: Ethiopia, June 8, 1941. MG, Mortar, Fordable-41.
Mogi Pass: Ethiopia, June 9, 1941. Machine Guns & Mortars.
The Fall of Saïo: Ethiopia, July 3, 1941. MG, Fordable-41.


French Cavalry's Charge
(vs Gonzalan in Aug). Like Pegasus Bridge Axis starts with 2 cards and draws 2 for first 2 turns (first 4 turns in this case with Italian High Command). French have 4 cavalry units. We played with 1d Allied Air Power (see above) but it didn't come up. French Army rules are now standard.
French played small cards first 4 turns and rolled flags, though they got Cavalry-Overruns. Move Out on 5th turn scored their kill to discard Air Power. (ITALIANS 5-1)
>>>Rematch (Sept.): French ordered 5, 5, 4 then 4 units to win in 4 Rounds by rolling hits, few flags, and blocking retreats so flags=hits. I used both a Stay-in-Place attack and a Cavalry-Overrun with cavalry. Since Italians didn't have 4 cards, they didn't have to lose any for 1st, 2nd and 4th kills! (ALLIES 5-1)
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French Cavalry's Charge
(vs The Railrodder in Oct.)
Used 1d Allied Air Power again, but didn't come up.
French didn't start with Centers (but that would change). Italians opened with Air Power for 4h/4d vs cavalry. French got his first kill before Italians had drawn his 4th card, so no discard that turn. High hit-% (will update). No Stay-in-Place nor Cavalry-Overruns this game. (ALLIES 5-3)
>>>Rematch. Italians played a Recon before full hand, so had to use that rule for Pegasus Bridge: draw 2, keep 1, discard other, then draw 1 more and keep. French forces were reduced and split when I got a lucky shot to knock Italians down to 3 cards. Italians were in Center, but from my baseline to his. I moved wounded to Right then back to Center to kill two-fig inf and rolled 3h/3d, then killed it next turn for the win. French got to do a couple Cavalry Overruns this game. Hit % and fig count to follow. (ALLIES 5-3)


Battle of Cub-Cub
(vs The Railrodder in Aug.) We were still using normal Air Power here. As Italians I tried to get his artillery (each got one hit on art) but I missed with BEL follow-up. The French moved his tank forward, so luckily I killed that, and we exchanged artillery kills. I went out of the fort and played TFH for 5/6 orders, but his Ambush-retreat on mine started the game change in his favor. (ALLIES 6-4)
>>>Rematch. As French, I started going up the Center, but realized it was too far and dangerous, and fortunately got my units back out of 2d art range. Italians went with all 3 sections in first 3 turns, so I focused on inf on my L, which he sent into Wadi when down to 1 fig. Then I went Right, and that worked out after 2 back-to-back TFH! He knocked some units down to 1 but I got up to 5, before he killed them. Armor Assault went into fort to kill his wounded artillery on 3d. (ALLIES 6-2)
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Battle of Cub-Cub
(vs Gonzalan). Used 1d Allied Air Power (see above). My Italians had good cards (even when down to 3). I went for his artillery with Air Power then Barrage and got 1 hit, tried to get another by artillery. He cleared Abatis and wire; found #2 mine. His first kill was his L-bunker and discarded my TFH. I wanted to keep going for artillery, but he put inf in 2d range. I sent guys out of cover and killed a C-inf and C-arm. He launched first Infantry Assault to kill a 2-fig inf; I pulled back the other to fort. He played another Infantry Assault to advance his lone-fig inf to kill my inf and Stay-in-Place miss on my art. I was out of Centers for a turn, so he got a hit on my art. He knocked my inf in road to 1, I retreated 3. I got 3 hits on his 3-fig inf heading for the fort. He pulled his lone-fig inf out of art range, and missed my lone-fig inf. Then advanced his art off baseline, but I still killed it on 1d. Besides rolling hits on infantry he advanced, I also rolled flags, knocking him back. Finally, he got his lone-fig inf up the hill to kill my art and TG for Permanent Medal & tie at 5, before I killed it. Interestingly we both rolled 15h/35d vs inf, 2/7 & 2/8 vs art, but I also rolled 3/10 vs French arm. 39% vs 38% not counting mine hit. (ITALIANS 6-5)
>>>Rematch. Played after jdrommel updated to East African look and made French Army standard this week. Also, 1d Allied Air Power, but didn't come up. French Army rule has only resulted in 1 shot per game for these scenarios, but this game I had 3 and it was the first time I saw a kill from a Stay-in-Place attack! Dice failed the Italians, then down to 3 cards, he ran out of Centers. (ALLIES 6-4)
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Battle of Cub-Cub
(vs Sam in Sept.) Played w/1d Allied Air Power though it didn't come up. French couldn't get it going even with Infantry Assault and Assault-C, and flags saved Italians. Last kill was from #4 mine which scored 3 tank hits. (ITALIANS 6-0)
>>>Rematch in Nov. Italians struck with Air Power for 3 hits, I countered (1d Allied Air Power) for 2 hits, but he Countered my Counter-Attack for 2 more hits. I sent my Infantry to the Right and used Infantry Assault-R (ordered 6) but couldn't hit and he killed 2 before I could followup with Assault-R (ordered 5) and Firefight, which also didn't score hits. If I knew I was going to miss I'd have clipped wire! Hit % was Italians 60% vs inf, and 55% vs armor (my Mechanics recovered 2), while French was 38% vs inf on similar number of dice (and no Stay-in-Place attacks). (ITALIANS 6-3)
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The rules were a little unclear. I took the fort rules to play like a Sea Wall (Terrain 12) that only provides protection from attacks outside the fort. (Presumably you could play Dig-In for sandbags inside the fort). I asked author jdrommel and he clarified that the desert field bunkers are indeed field bunkers, so French can benefit from defense.


Capture of Asosa
(vs The Railrodder in Oct.)
Italians couldn't get a kill. Belgians Ambush-killed a lone-fig inf that attacked with BEL. The Belgians pulled back their wounded units and ended with 4 lone-fig infantry. (ALLIES 5-0)
>>>Rematch. Allies struck with 1d Allied Air Power on 3 units for 2 hits, which was plenty of damage. Machine Gun was strategically placed and powerful enough as an Early War SWA. We fought in Wadi, and Belgians got an Ambush-kill. (ALLIES 5-0)
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I haven't played too much with Wadis. I believe (and the Online game is consistent with this) that a Wadi is a tile, not an entire structure of tiles, so a unit on a Wadi tile cannot shoot a unit on another Wadi tile unless they are adjacent. Then if they are adjacent, one still gets the defense bonus.


Gambela
(vs Gonzalan). First scenario we used with 1d Allied Air Power. This scenario uses a unit from the Campaign Book: a depleted Italian tank unit (which is probably the only Italian tank in East Africa). Since it's a unit, killing it causes a card loss for the Italians, but doesn't result in a medal.
As Belgians I went Right, but he fought back and destroyed my 4 units in that section to the loss of his tank and 1 unit. I had to go Left, and that worked, and I cleared that section. He fell back to the Governor's House. (I might have played Air Power on that unit if it rolled 2 dice.) I decided to go for it with BEL, but only got 2 hits on his 3-fig unit. I left the full unit next to it, but wouldn't get a next turn. He drew and played Barrage (again) to kill my lone-fig inf on my baseline. (ITALIANS 6-4)
>>>Rematch. As Italians I sent 3 units down my R-hills to the palm forests, while trying to send my tank across the Center to help, and it got the kill. He killed my tank, but retreated 2 lone-fig inf. I thought I could heal one a turn later, but he went Infantry Assault-C to kill both. It was pretty much over for me then. Soon he took the Governor's House for #4, though I got an Ambush-kill to tie on my Right. He knocked a unit in the open to 1, then killed it with BEL and took the Depot for the win. (ALLIES 6-4)
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Gambela
(vs The Railrodder in Oct.) I thought about using BEL to take out his depleted tank early and cost him a card, but wanted to save it for taking a medal site. When I did it was already 3-1 Italians favor, including a kill by tank. He moved back into the Center, used Medics to heal to full, killed my inf in the Governor's House and Took Ground. Finally he used Barrage he'd been saving from the start to take out one of the lone-fig infantry I'd pulled back for the win. (ITALIANS 6-1)
>>>Rematch. Belgians used Barrage on his 7th play to kill my depleted tank, costing me a card. Belgians launched an impressive advance in the Center with Infantry Assault ordering 6 units. I responded with TFH which ordered 4 inf (5 dice) but couldn't get a kill, though his Counter which ordered 5 got his first medal. It seemed he ran out of Centers, but I wasn't able to take advantage. He used BEL to get a kill on the Right and took the Depot. It was over after he got his 5th medal and knocked a guy to 1 fig. He used Medics to heal and walk into the Governor's House for his 2nd site medal and the win. (ALLIES 6-1)
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Playing with Early War Machine Guns, which both sides have, means they either stay and shoot or advance without shooting. Late War MG means they could have moved and shot as normal infantry, so an advance would be easier here and in Mogi Pass. Still I think Early War MG is the way to go in 1941. (Note: I'm now 0/4 at this scenario.)


Storm on Massawa
This scenario has a "Required" Permanent Medal (as I call it) for the French.
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(vs Gonzalan). Used 1d Allied Air Power but it didn't come up. Italians advanced artillery, and came out of cover to kill tank. After getting a hit on French art, he taunted he'd get mine first. I went for his and killed it in the open. I chose to Take Ground instead of Stay-in-Place attack so it would be 2 spaces from the permanent medal in case he was out of Centers. He killed that inf (French 3-2). After making Italians discard 3 Right cards, I thought I could advance in that section with 5 inf. But he kept killing there, taking the lead, making me shift to Center to kill in Massawa and TG for win. (ALLIES 6-5)
>>>Rematch(in Oct) Italians and French advanced artillery so it looked like it would be a 2d artillery shoot-out. Instead, I went for French Infantry that moved into 2d range. He sent his tank up for one hit, but Italian artillery ignored a flag from that and an artillery shot. I killed his tank while he kept missing my artillery, inlcuding with Barrage. He got close to a fortress to play his Ambush against my full-inf; I still rolled 3h/3d for the kill. At 5 medals I played BEL (I had drawn the second Counter) on my Left 2-fig inf to go after his 3-fig inf, but scored 1 hit, and set it nearby in the hope of getting a winning kill next turn. He killed it and discarded TFH, knocking me to 3 cards. Then he finally killed my art. I made two discard-plays, then went Right. His 1d Allied Air Power scored 2 hits and a retreat, including one hit on my 2-fig inf. But Infantry Assault got the 6th kill. No Stay-in-Place shots this game. (ITALIANS 6-4)
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(vs Railrodder)
French went up the Left, hit with Firefight, got an Ambush-kill, then Medics healed to 3 and got 2nd kill. He took away good cards, and got to use a Stay-in-Place attack. Italians couldn't get 2nd kill vs 2-fig inf with BEL. French used Armor Assault x2 to clear Left. Then went Center with TFH to kill inf on medal and took site. (ALLIES 6-1)
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I don't usually post reports here of games versus novices (to Italian High Commmand), but something new happened (in Dec.) worth mentioning. Antoi advanced Italian artillery 2 spaces over 2 turns, then late in the game retreated it 2 on one flag. I didn't know you could do that, but Italian Army Rules say, "All Italian ground units" so it should be legal.


Bortaï river - Action 1
(vs Gonzalan in Dec.) It looked as though the Italians had the initiative, but they never took the lead. Belgians were able to inflict damage on the Italian side of the river. (ALLIES 6-5)
>>>Rematch. My Italians didn't have the cards for a good start, so Belgians used General Advance to take advantage of Italians on the baseline. Too many misses allowed Italians to survive and get kills, when Belgians got too close, though nearly paralyzed when down to 3 cards. Allies Counter-Attacked my Air Power, even though it was 1d Air Power for Allies too, and scored 3/4 hits including a kill. It looked like a Machine Gun escaped after I rolled 3 flags on 3 dice, but Barrage took it out. Still it was just a matter of time before Belgians drew a card to go after my lone-figure infantry I'd put in sandbags, and that's what happened. (ALLIES 6-5)
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This was the 36th scenario I've played with Italian High Command by jdrommel or RBorg. I saved it for last because it looked like it was the lamest of the Bortaï River scenarios, but the scores (vs Gonzalan) were closest, so far. Downgrading Machine Guns to Early War (SWAs #8) didn't seem to hurt the Allies.
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Bortaï river - Action 1
(vs Railrodder in Jan.) Italians opened with DIG-IN to protect L&R infantry on baseline. Cards and dice didn't help Allies. The Belgians' final play was TFH, but only 1 order, and it was Ambush-killed. (ITALIANS 6-0)
>>>Rematch. Italians advanced on their Left, while Belgians advanced on thier Left for 3 hits. Italians played TFH to knock the Machine Gun to 1-fig. General Advance netted the Belgians two kills, while Italians took out MG. Belgians ordered 3 in Close Assault, but R-inf was Ambush-killed, clearing that section, while Belgians got a kill to clear their Left (but no card loss since Ambush brought Italians temporarily down to 3 cards). Then they moved those units towards the Center and got a Firefight-kill on 6 dice. Italians didn't cross the river so Belgians met them on thier side or shot across. (ALLIES 6-3)


Bortaï river - Action 2
(vs The Railrodder in Oct.) Italians moved quickly on their Right and used BEL for a kill and TG for the win. (ITALIANS 6-1)
>>>Rematch. Italians took a little longer going Left, but same outcome: used BEL to get a kill and a medal site, then next turn walked into the other medal site for the win. (ITALIANS 6-3)


Bortaï river - Action 3
(vs Gonzalan in Oct.) Belgians advanced their SWAs then pulled back wounded units, so never made it across the river. Once I had a handful of Centers, Italians sent 3 across the river to mixed results. I did my best to go after his 2 lone-fig inf on the baseline, but only got one. He knocked me down to 3 cards discarding Dig-In, Air Power and Infantry Assault. Fortunately, he finally rolled a flag against a wounded unit on his side, so it was able to retreat 3 then another 3 back across the river. Belgians were leading and got another kill by machine gun, before he pulled that one back at 1-fig too. I was now on my side of the river, so he advanced a full inf on the Left, but I killed it to tie. He had a shot or two to win, including 1d Allied Air Power on my lone-fig inf, but missed (he might have hit if we still rolled 2d). I crossed the river on my Left, knocked another full unit to 1 and killed it the next turn. Allied Machine Guns rolled 3 stars, one of which was for a kill. (ITALIANS 6-5)
>>>Rematch in Nov. Italians entered the river to get a kill on a mortar. Three times he scored 3 hits on 3 dice which destroyed the Allies' offensive. Belgians set up for TFH (and Firefight) but one kill didn't help. Italians Countered and got back his good cards for repeats of Move Out!, Ambush, Medics and BEL for the win. Axis also scored an Air Power kill. (ITALIANS 6-1)
+
(vs Railrodder in 2014) 21 Rounds. Italians crossed the river, then pulled back lone-fig inf. They cleared the Center, but Allies got their 5th kill while Italians couldn't hit. Then Allies played Barrage before Italians had a shot at victory. (ALLIES 6-5)
>>>Rematch. 19 Rounds. Allies thought about going Right, but Italians were interested in crossing on their Left, so Allies went defensive there, but an Ambush-kill put the Italians ahead. Italians pulled back two of their 3 Lone-Fig-Infantry, but lost the 3rd. Then Italians crossed in Center and caught me off-guard, but must have run out of cards, so only got one more kill. Once the Allies got their 3rd kill, they went BEL for their 4th and headed Right to try to get 2 more, but were flagged back across the river. Air Power might have won it for Allies since both LFI were adjacent, but got the 5th, while Italian Barrage got his 5th. Allies crossed the river again, then used Infantry Assault to run up the hill to shoot for the win. (ALLIES 6-5)
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Early War Machine Guns are a lot harder to use aggressively than Late War Machine Guns since the former can't move and shoot.


Mogi Pass
(vs Gonzalan). This game has mortars and machine guns. My Italians opened with BEL for 3h/4d but I didn't pull it back to the hill, so he knocked it to 1 and later killed it with Air Power. The Allies just couldn't get an advance going and never drew (or Countered) Infantry Assault. I thought the Italians had the initiative the whole game (even down to 3 cards). (ITALIANS 6-5)
>>>Rematch. Used 1d Allied Air Power rule(see above). I sent my Belgians Right for 1 loss and 2 kills. He had good cards, including both Infantry Assaults. Then I went Left for two losses and no kills, one by Counter-attack of my Air Power and one by TFH. I sent my R-inf to his baseline, then went to the Center and killed a 3-fig unit in one roll! He pulled 4 back and knocked me to 1 fig, so I withdrew until he went after it near the end. I went up the Center and drew Infantry Assault, then played Close Assault and Ambush to bring me to 5, then on the way to the exit killed a 1-fig inf on 1d. (ALLIES 6-4)
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Mogi Pass
(vs The Railrodder in Oct.) Played with 1d Allied Air Power (but it didn't come up) and Early War Machine Gun. Allies went up the Left then advanced in the Center. I was going to exit two by Infantry Assault, but drew BEL, so used that to set up for 3 exits, but he retreated one, but I still exited 2 in one turn. Italians went down the hill on their Left for two kills. I used Barrage to get the final kill. (ALLIES 6-5)
>>>Rematch. Allies opened with Barrage; Axis with Air Power on 2 units. Would Allies have countered (vs 2 units) if we weren't playing 1d Air Power? Allies killed my Right machine gun and advanced on the flanks, so I sent a guy to each flank. Then he came up the Center and stalled. I used a flag to retreat 3 and block the exit for his BEL unit next turn. We exchanged kills. The mortar surprised him by shooting over an escarpment. The Italian MG scored 4 hits by stars (incl. a kill and 2 during Ambush). (ITALIANS 6-3)
+
The first game I felt this was the only scenario so far that 6 cards was too much for the Italians, though it turned out to be a close finish. Like Beach landings, attacker needs to focus on one section, preferably with Infantry Assault. Next game it didn't bother me so much, because Italians were mostly stuck on hills, & finally seemed to run out of Rights then Centers too. I'd give this 3 stars (with Equipment Pack variant rules). ***


The Fall of Saïo
This scenario has a Sudden Death medal "Mort Subite" in Saïo for the final battle for Ethiopia.
(vs The Railrodder in Nov)
My Italians opened with BEL to kill his Center artillery, so I thought this would go my way. He came across the river and I fought back, but he killed and dominated the map. I put my lone-fig Machine Gun into the Sudden Death Medal site, but didn't draw Medics until my last turn. I tried to kill his lone-fig inf, but he Ambush-killed mine (his 2nd Ambush-kill). Then he killed my machine gun as the final medal with 1 die Allied Air Power. (ALLIES 6-2)
>>>Rematch. I advanced across the river, including my artillery. I'd hoped to match his score, but he got his 3rd kill with BEL. I cleaned up and closed in, then used Infantry Assault to kill his lone-fig Machine Gun in the medal town for my 6th kill. (ALLIES 6-3)


ITALIANS 14W-18L
==============

[Mis à jour le: Wed, 09 July 2014 04:26]

      
gonzalan
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Thu, 15 August 2013 16:23
I agree with JFKoski, a great look and a break from the norm, where scenario is basically one color, maybe just a different shade of green/white/brown.

Played "Mogi Pass" against him, light green inland board, dark green of mountain, light green/biege of palm forest, dark brown of escarpments, light/dark brown of roads...a good look and appealing to the eye.

As to the scenario and gameplay, another good game against JFKoski, he won 6-5, used IHC, each started with 6 cards...given his sandbagged position up on the mountains...gave him more of an advantage already held by being up on the moutain..he is shooting down with 1 more die each attack....obviously an added bonus to have 6 cards to start and not 4, did get him down to the 3 card minimum...but he had good cards even then!

Escarpment on his RIGHT...meant I was funneled towards him and his high positions...road down the CENTER...between 2 mountain ridges...again funneled to danger, but EXIT at the end of the road, RISK/REWARD, on his LEFT, more mountains, I had 4 units on his RIGHT, 1 each MG and MORTAR...so either move/or battle only...made for a tough advance...didn't help that he opened with BEL and hit 3-4 on my MORTAR and reduced them to spectators!!

Have had fun playing these scenarios, IHC adds a new element to card play as does the retreat factor of the Italians and the French Rules add to gameplay as well...added firepower if successful on Close Assault attack, either extra die attack, if a hit, can be helpful on follow up attack.

Looking forward to more battles on this front...usually against JFKoski...will have to get on a winning streak and even things up more!!
      
JFKoski
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Mon, 23 September 2013 22:54
[EDIT: I've created a new category for Italians in Europe (as opposed to North Africa and East Africa), so I've bumped down the conclusion. It may be vain to keep posting my Italian games, but I do hope people will try them out. There's no point asking for new stuff if you're not going to play what we have now, IMHO.]
=======================

EUROPE SFTF by jdrommel.

Perati Bridge
Italians have to cross the bridges and fight the Greeks who have a Big Gun.
(vs Gonzalan in July). This game was laughable, then sad for the Italians. As Greeks I had 5 Tactic cards for many turns that I used to good effect. It cost him a lot to take out the infantry on my Left-mountain, and he couldn't kill the inf in the forest near the wire. His troops would enter the Center-bridge one at a time, and then when wounded would pull back or retreat them by flag 2 or more. I didn't think the Greeks had planes, but they're allowed Air Power which scored a kill and set up another for a Big Gun kill. Infantry Assault-Center (3inf) struck his inf on the bridge for the final kill. Maybe not a representative game for this scenario. (ALLIES 6-2)
>>>Rematch (in August): I thought things were going well for my Italians. I had sent two tanks forward with Armor Assault and led 3-0. Finally, his Big Gun killed the unit he knocked to 1 (after I moved it each time to remove the target marker). Then my C-tank went Left towards the medal, but was destoyed. My R-tank that was 3 spaces from the empty town medal was also destroyed, leaving me with 3 cards, one of them DIG-IN.
Rule Mistake: Air Power flagged his Big Gun. Since the hill was blocked it should have been a hit, but he retreated to a mountain which is impassible, even though the Big Gun starts on a mountain. It might have mattered more if I'd gotten a hit on it from my Armor Assault-Overrun. He made a tactical mistake: he Barraged a baseline-inf for 3h/4d, but it was out of Big-Gun range for followup. He did have a chance to win, but failed to roll 2h/3d, while I killed his lone-fig inf in the open. (ITALIANS 5-4)
+
Perati Bridge
(vs The Railrodder in Oct). Played this match with Artillery Bombard substituted for Air Power. The Italians advanced on their Right. Greeks sent several infantry units across the bridge to their Left, and Italians didn't have the cards to take a shot while unit was on the baseline. I moved the Big Gun off the mountain, but regretted it after he moved out of 2d artillery range and I could no longer order it with Rights. Greeks used Artillery Bombard once. Big Gun missed a lot and Italians moved to remove target marker, but it got a kill. (ALLIES 5-3)
>>>Rematch. Greeks pulled back to hills and moved Big Gun off the mountain. Italians struggled to get hits, moved artillery forward and used Artillery Bombard on 2d & 2d. Then I moved it leftward as Greeks sent wounded units to his Right. Greeks got kills as Italians got too close and couldn't retreat or pull back across the river. Italians took the medal town and had a chance to win with Artillery Bombard if I scored 1/1 and 1/1 but didn't. Greek Barrage only scored one hit on 2-fig inf in Big Gun range, so I had to Medic' it back to 2. Big Gun used Artillery Bombard to wound and retreat infantry out of town (2/3 & 1+f/3, and Italians didn't have Centers so it looked like it was over. I wanted one more a point for consolation, but couldn't move into the town, so played Counter to roll 1d twice against Big Gun and rolled 2 grenades! He still won next turn, since I'd retreated my infantry 3 and he killed it on 2d (had I retreated it 2 I might have used Ambush for a shot). (ALLIES 5-4)
+
Rule clarification: It seems an artillery that starts on a moountain might not be able to move off, like being in a bunker. Hopefully this will be decided in the FAQ thread.
Rule change: jdrommel has since changed his scenario (Oct 29) to use Air Power as a Barrage.
Some of these games were long: 14, 19, 25, and 29 Rounds (a turn for each side), respectively.


Battle of "La Seigne" Pass
This scenario is different.
1. It's the only scenario I've seen where the Italians started with 6 cards before Italian High Command rules came out. So naturally, using those rules will make it more difficult for the Italians to win.
2. The Italians don't get points for kills, but only for capturing the French bunkers with medals. At the end of the game, the Italians will have 0-3 points or 6 if they capture all 4.
3. The fortress is on a hill, so it gets plateau line-of-sight across the hills.
4. The artillery starts on a mountain and gets +1 range while there, it cannot move or retreat to another mountain or the fortress, so should lose the +1 if it moves. [EDIT 11/1: It seems an artillery that starts on a mountain shouldn't move, like in a bunker.]
5. Air Power is removed from the deck.
+
Battle of "La Seigne" Pass
(vs Gonzalan in Oct.) As Italians I went up the Center. He sent his infantry out of the fortress, and I killed it. When I ran out of Centers I played Dig-In, which helped my Center inf survive awhile longer. I had a chance to kill a 2-fig then 1-fig inf in a bunker but didn't leave my sandbag to take it, so ended with 1 kill and no bunkers. (ALLIES 6-0)
>>>Rematch: Italians moved up the Right, and stayed away from my artillery whenever possible. The first time he came close to bunkers, he cleared two wire. As I shifted my forces to meet him, he played BEL. Though I Ambushed, I didn't roll 3h/3d to kill, so it took and he gave 2 hits, then moved through 2 empty bunkers for two points. After that whenever he crossed the river from his Right and I roll flags, he pulled his wounded units back before I could take them out. This was the first game I saw an Italian on the Allied baseline retreat 8 spaces in one turn (from 3 flags) to the Axis baseline! With just 3 cards in hand, he finally killed the unit in the bunker and Took Ground for his 3rd point, so I had to use my Barrage on that 2-fig inf (instead of one on the baseline) but missed! He went to the last bunker for 2h/2d for the win. No Stay-in-Place attacks for either game.
Mistake: I moved the artillery off the mountain but still counted range as if it was on it. Will pretend I moved it one more hill leftward and not count 1 shot. (ITALIANS 6-4)
+
Battle of "La Seigne" Pass
(vs Railrodder in Jan.)
Italians went up the Right, but played BEL fairly early to go up the mountain, but French rolled flag to send them back down. Lot's of hits by artillery knocked them down to 3 cards early, and that stopped their advance. (ALLIES 6-0)
>>>Rematch. French didn't get their first kill until Italians were up the hill clearing wire. As Italians went up their Right, French pulled back their infantry to their side of river. Italians killed unit in bunker and took ground, then went after next bunker killing and Taking ground. But they didn't have BEL to go for the remaining empty bunkers, or reserves across the river, so French got their 5th and 6th kills. (ALLIES 6-2)
+
This scenario is so tough for the Italians, that Italian High Command rules don't really work, and they might struggle with 6 cards to get a win. You might need to play this as a match - where the winner has the most bunkers. However, Gonzalan played and rolled well and his use of BEL was key to success as Italians.
+
Rule clarification: Artillery on a mountain cannot retreat or move, like artillery in a bunker (discussed in FAQ thread).


Battle of Gela
American landing in Sicily accompanied by 2 Destroyers. Two Permanent Medals for Italians. Played with 1d Allied Air Power.
(vs The Railrodder in Dec.)
Destroyers and Rangers did their job taking and holding the lead. (ALLIES 6-4)
>>>Rematch. Italians got the first kill but Allies struck back with Infantry Assault. Italian player held Ambush (and could have lost it) to use from lone-figure infantry, but didn't save that unit. Italians went on the attack and got 3 more kills, clearing ground units from their Left. Allies took the initiative again and went up their Left, clearing it with their 5th medal. Italians drove tank through their Left Depot for their 5th and on toward the Center Depot. Americans had no infantry there so only option was to kill tank by Destroyers. Italian lone-figure armor made it to the 2nd Depot for the win. (ITALIANS 6-5)
+
Battle of Gela (vs Gonzalan in Feb.)
Italians went Left in force and dominated that section, taking the Depot medal. At 4-1 they drew Ambush. Allies didn't let them use it, by shooting from Destroyer, then Barrage, then two more Destroyer shots to kill. ALLIES DISCARDED ITALIAN'S AMBUSH! (A 1/4 chance.) In over 150 games with IHC this is the first time they've lost Ambush! Americans got another kill by the time Italians went for unit in Center Depot, scoring 3 hits on 3 dice for TFH. Then Americans scored another kill with 1d Air Power and drew Ambush! So when Italians went for the winning shot, Allies Ambushed for a hit and retreat! It looked bad for Italians at 5-4. Americans came out of forest to kill tank and tie at 5. Italians played BEL for 3 hits on 4 dice to win. (ITALIANS 6-5)
>>>Rematch. Italians went up their Left, but missed final shot on elite infantry for awhile. Allies put target markers on infantry Axis probably did not want to move! Allies cleared their Right, leading 4-1. Italians (down to 3 cards) vacated forest to go for lone-fig inf on his Left and killed it, but Allies went for that unit and scored 4 hits on 4 dice. Italians decided to go for it with BEL, and though I Ambushed, he still scored 3 hits and a flag and with 2nd movement took L-Depot medal and next turn killed that lone-fig inf as his 4th medal. However Allies Counter-Attacked BEL, missed lone-fig armor on 4 dice, then killed it on next turn. (ALLIES 6-4)




ITALIANS: 4W, 8L.
=================


OVERLORD (SFTF w/Italian High Command by jdrommel).

[Albania] Klisura Pass.

There were no Overlord scenarios involving just Italians as the Axis player, so jdrommel was kind enough to build one for me (and us) with Italian High Command rules in mind. I thought Italians vs Greeks would be good and he went with that.
He used winter boards which is not a problem in VASSAL. I was glad to see mountains and Hills with Forests and Hills with Towns next to regular hills, since there are few scenarios like that. I've been thinking that winter board should mean Winter Combat Cards (like desert board means North African Desert rules), but he didn't add it in the rules. I want to play several times to test it as he wrote it, before changing the card count or adding Winter Combat Cards.

Normally, when you kill an Italian unit, the Italians randomly discard a card, and they never get it back. But in overlord they can draw 2 or 3 a turn, so can get the cards back. Operation Market Garden has card loss so we played it like that.


[Albania] Klisura Pass (Greeks vs Gonzalan in Aug.)
10 Rounds. 3 Italian TFH (incl. Counter) vs 2 Greek TFH helped Italians a lot. Greeks had a chance to win on last turn, but failed to kill lone-fig inf on baseline with 2d. (ITALIANS 12-11)
+
[Albania] Klisura Pass (Italians vs TBivens in Aug.)
13 Rounds. Things were going well for Italians: I took an early lead (5-0) from the start helped by a couple 4h/4d (or 2h/2d + 2h/2d). I activated 11 with TFH, and Greeks Countered to activate 10. Then I played two Firefights the same turn, followed by another TFH(6). At 11-6 it looked like it was over, but I didn't see an easy kill, so left towns in Center. He closed the score-gap and discarded my cards. I sent an inf into his Center-Right forest after he pulled back his 2-fig inf. My Ambush failed to score the kill and he killed mine before it could shoot again. I meant to cover the medal-church with Probe-C but forgot to move the 2nd unit there! Next turn, he killed two and used BEL to enter the church for the win. (ALLIES 12-11)
+
[Albania] Klisura Pass (Italians w/Sam1812 vs Gonzalan & The Railrodder in Nov.)
14 Rounds. We had 3 players so decided to play 2-on-1 co-op (both players know cards and can talk about moves anytime), then Sam showed up on Round 2 so we went 2-on-2 co-op for a couple more rounds then adjourned to finish the next day, going to the 14th Round. This game saw our Italians come back and take the lead (7-6) on Round 7 with 3 kills, including our 2nd Barrage and hit on the Big Gun (which missed except for 2 hits to kill with Firefight). By round 10 we increased the lead 10-6, by mostly clearing the Center sections, but getting the last two proved difficult. Greeks were able to come back and lead 11-10 while hiding 3 wounded units. Italians played our 6th(!) TFH which finally got 2 kills on our Left to win including 3h/3d. (Greeks had 1 TFH and we were NOT able to Counter that.) Late in the game we decided to play "extra" cards so that when we drew 2, we would only be at 3 cards and wouldn't risk losing TFH from a kill-discard. (ITALIANS 12-11)
+
[Albania] Klisura Pass (Greeks vs Railrodder & Gonzalan co-op in Jan-Feb with Winter Combat Cards.)
13 Rounds in 3 sessions. Greeks played Reinforcements on Left and got a tank! Unfortunately it ran Out of Fuel, and was destroyed before it hit anything. Italian's Barrage killed a 2-fig inf (yet had rolled 2 inf & 2 gre) to lead 2-1.
Second session saw Italians play TFH which was followed by 3 Counter-Attacks! Score was tied at 7.
Third session Italians got low on cards and pulled back units, while using their artillery to good effect, making Greeks pull back some of theirs. Once tied at 10, 3 successive Barrages scored the last kills. (ALLIES 12-11)
+
I thought Italians would need more cards than Greeks (maybe 12-10), but Italians have used good card management. I wanted to play 6 games before trying with Winter Combat Cards, but due to the time OL takes, did it as my 4th.

ITALIANS 2W-2L
==============

[Mis à jour le: Fri, 21 February 2014 09:25]

      
JFKoski
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Tue, 22 October 2013 00:07
[NOTE: I bumped this down to make room for scenarios I've played/or am playing involving Italians in Europe. Pardon my vanity of posting After-Action-Reports or reviews here, but I would like to see others give the Italian High Command a try.]

==============
ITALIANS 9W-10L (OFFICIAL, PRE-EQUIPMENT PACK)
ITALIANS 14W-10L (EQUIPMENT PACK & BONUS SCENARIOS)
ITALIANS 14W-8L (POST-EQUIPMENT PACK)
ITALIANS 13W-19L (SFTF-NORTH AFRICA)
ITALIANS 14W-18L (SFTF-EAST AFRICA)
ITALIANS 4W-8L (SFTF-EUROPE)
ITALIANS 2W-2L (OVERLORD)
Total: 70W-75L
==============

After playing 70+ games with Italian High Command rule, I might take a break for awhile [EDIT: 2 weeks]. My goal was to show whether these could be fun & competitive games with IHC and I think I succeeded. There's two questions about adding this rule.

1. Would the Italians have too much advantage if they start with 6 cards (IHC)?
I would say no, since the benefit of starting with 6 is offset by possibly losing cards down to 3.

2. Would the Italians be better off starting with 5 or 4 cards and not losing any cards the whole game (no IHC)?
There's a couple scenarios where the Allies might be able to get kills quickly, and so disadvantage the Italians if they had to discard. But mostly I found the benefit of having 6 cards (even temporarily) allows more initiative on their part.

Another goal was to play a scenario 6x, twice against 3 opponents so I'd have enough experience to speak on rule changes, without luck or odd play disrupting my analysis. But I was only able to do that for a few scenarios. I can say there was no problem so far changing scenarios to include:

French Army rules, &
1d Allied Air Power.

Machine Guns (SWAs 8: early war MG) might have some problems. If the units are expected to move and attack like normal infantry (SWAs 7: late war MG) then it might be better for them to be regular infantry.
If the units are expected to stay in sandbags, then it's not too bad if they miss one die because they can't jump out, though it could be awkward if forced to retreat by Air Power, Barrage or 2 flags.

I'm hoping some of you will now try Italian High Command rule (with these others) and post some After-Action-Reports too.

[EDIT: In all these games, Italians still haven't been forced to discard Ambush. I'm hopeful it doeesn't happen when I'm Italians!]

[Mis à jour le: Tue, 25 March 2014 04:53]

      
JFKoski
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Sun, 29 December 2013 07:57
From July through December, I've now played all 36 Italian scenarios I could find by RBorg and jdrommel (including the one the latter released this December). I described 128+ games above with Italian High Command rules, and will likely keep playing them.

I thought I'd list a few of those I'd give THUMBS UP:

Italian Diversion at Gazala,
Battle of Moyale,
El Mechili - Action 1,
Battle of Cub-Cub,
Mogi Pass, and
Klisura Pass (OL)

There's a few more I'd like to play again to see if they make the top grade.

I've asked Gonzalan and The Railrodder to review the scenarios and come up with their favorites.
      
JFKoski
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Sun, 02 February 2014 03:49
Well, it finally happened. While playing our ~150th recorded game (see above) with Italian High Command, Allies got a kill and made the Italians discard AMBUSH. And I was the Italians!

Italians are usually pretty quick to play this card so they won't lose it. I figured if this was going to happen it would be during a Firefight (or Barrage or Air Power). There's only been a couple chances of this happening to me in the past.

This scenario, Battle of Gela, has two destroyers, so after I drew Ambush, my opponent did a destroyer shot, next turn played Barrage, then the following turn did two more destroyer shots for a kill. I had no chance to play it in 3 turns. He had a 1/4 chance to pick it and did so. This nearly ruined me, but after I played TFH, Americans immediately drew and played Ambush and his flag took away my winning shot against his lone-fig inf in the Center depot. We saved the game, but with 2 destroyers and Italians with only 3 cards, it seems more likely he'll get two kills before I get one.

[EDIT:] Italians squeaked out a win with 3 hits / 4 dice from Behind Enemy Lines.

I had a game recently where one side discarded Ambush after a Recon-draw but that's different than having your opponent take it away!

[Mis à jour le: Sun, 02 February 2014 18:30]

      
JFKoski
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Fri, 14 February 2014 06:56
Thanks Kaufschtick, for pointing out that Operation Compass is an Italian campaign using jdrommel's North African scenarios! For some reason when I searched "Italian" I missed some of these scenarios. Also, all I had to do was push the "Campaigns" button on Vassal to see their names. We played #6 and #10 before, while #9 is his SFTF, not the official Beda Fomm, mentioned above.

So I started with scenario #1 of 10 today with both my opponents for Italian scenarios, Railrodder and Gonzalan, playing both sides as we go.

Rules (including variants):
-Italian High Command (start w/6 cards and lose 1 per kill down to 3),
-1 die Air Power (since it's also an Equipment Pack rule and its 1940-1941).
-French Army Rules (Nations 7) where applicable to Free French forces,
-The Operation Compass booklet has a flowchart like Operation Toenails and Vercors campaigns, but there is no bonus units or abilities for the winner to start the next scenario. (I think I prefer it this way.)
-No Reserve or Victory rolls or other stuff from Campaign books.

Scoring:
1 point per VP,
+1 for winning,
+1 for each medal site captured.

Scenarios:
1.[Desert war] Unpleasant surprise at Nibeiwa,
-Italians start with one armor on baseline that can be killed by an Allied tank the first turn, which is what happened 1 game, and 2 hits in another game. 4-Medal scenario.
2.[Desert war] Recapture of Sidi Barrani,
-Two British destroyers and 2 British artillery make this a nearly sure win for them, as the Italians are backed up against the shore.
3.[Desert war] Battle of Buq Buq,
-Eight British Armor vs six 1-figure artillery units make this scenario like Raid on Barce, the scenario with six Patrol Cars. If British can't roll grenades, they will lose as I did (1g/41d=2%). Since British have no infantry, I played Dig-in 2x, Infantry Assault and BEL to order 1 armor each! The Italians do have an HQ-Tent guarded by infantry. In one game British got 3 kills on Italians to knock them to 3 cards, then took the HQ to drop them to 2 cards in hand! If they took the HQ when Italians had 4 cards, it would take away a card, but then a further kill would not drop the Italians below 3 cards.
Note: HQ-Tent is supposed to have an Allied medal. Please add medal to your Vassal game until the next update.
4.[Desert war] Capture of Bardia,
-This looks like a repeat of Recapture of Sidi Barrani, since British have 2 destroyers and 3 artillery while Italians are backed up on shore. We said destroyers couldn't move (since they can't move to shore hex), and French Army rules were in play, but latter didn't come up.
Note: This is supposed to be a 7-medal game. Please add medal spaces on both sides for your Vassal game until the next update.
5.[Desert war] 1st battle of Tobruk,
Italians on defensive, with 2 tank units vs 3 artillery and 2 elite tanks.
6.[Desert war] El Mechili - Action 1,
-We've played this before (see earlier post).
Note: Please add an Allied medal to the town, if you have an earlier version of the scenario.
7.[Desert war] Martuba airfield,
Note, should read: Use "Specialized Units" rules (Troops 2) to the Axis unit with Elite badge. These are "Bersaglieri". (not "Elite Armor")
8.[Desert war] The fall of Derna,
No tanks, long Wadi down middle, elite Italian infantry. First scenario in Campaign where Italians have won more than lost (but few AARs).
Note, should read: Use "Specialized Units" rules (Troops 2) to all Axis infantry units. (Not "Elite Armor")
9.[Desert war] Beda Fomm,
This is a SFTF by jdrommel which differs from the official one by RBorg.
10.[Desert war] The siege of Giarabub
We played this before (see post above), but will do again to finish campaign.

My [Desert war] Campaigns:
Gonazalan #9, #10; Railrodder #11, #12
Unpleasant surprise at Nibeiwa (4 medals)
(ALLIES 4-3), (ALLIES 4-2), (ALLIES 4-3), (ALLIES 4-0)
(ALLIES 5-3), (ALLIES 5-2), (ALLIES 5-3), (ALLIES 5-0) subtotal
Recapture of Sidi Barrani (7 medals***)
(ALLIES 7*-5), (ALLIES 7**-5), (ALLIES 7*-3), (ALLIES 7*-5)
(ALLIES 14-8), (ALLIES 15-7), (ALLIES 14-6), (ALLIES 14-5) subtotal
Battle of Buq Buq (6 medals*)
(ITALIANS 6-2), (ALLIES 6*-2), (ALLIES 6*-3), (ITALIANS 6-1)
(ALLIES 16-15), (ALLIES 23-9), (ALLIES 22-9), (ALLIES 15-12) subtotal
Capture of Bardia (7 medals)
(ALLIES 7-6), ...(ALLIES 7-2), ...(ALLIES 7-3), ...(ALLIES 7-4)
(ALLIES 24-21),(ALLIES 31-11), (ALLIES 30-12), (ALLIES 23-16) subtotal
1st Battle of Tobruk (7 medals**)
(ALLIES 7-6), ...(ALLIES 7-2), ...(ITALIANS 7-6*), ...(ALLIES 7-4)
(ALLIES 32-27),(ALLIES 39-13), (ALLIES 37-20),(ALLIES 31-20) subtotal
El Mechili - Action 1 (6 medals*)
(ALLIES 6-4),...(ITALIANS 6-4),...(ITALIANS 6-3),...(ALLIES 6-3)
(ALLIES 39-31),(ALLIES 43-20),(ALLIES 40-27),(ALLIES 38-23) subtotal
Martuba Airfield (6 medals**)
(ALLIES 6**-1),...(ITALIANS 6-4),...(ALLIES 6*-2)...(ALLIES 6*-3)
(ALLIES 48-32),(ALLIES 47-27),(ALLIES 48-29),(ALLIES 46-26) subtotal
The Fall of Derna (6 medals*)
(ITALIANS 6-4),...(ALLIES 6*-2),(ITALIANS 6-4),(ALLIES 6*-5)
(ALLIES 52-39),(ALLIES^ 55-29),(ALLIES^ 52-36),(ALLIES^ 54-31) subtotal
Beda Fomm (7 medals)
.......................................(ALLIES 7-5),..(ITALIANS 7-3)
.......................................(ALLIES 60-41),(ALLIES 57-39) subtotal
--------------------------------------99RR-98JFK Campaign-Match Score as of #9/10
Siege of Giarabub (6 medals)
....................................................,(ALLIES 6-5),(ITALIANS 6-5)
....................................................,(ALLIES 67-46),(ALLIES 62-46) Totals
(THE RAILRODDER 113-108) Campaign Match

* +1 medal site
** +2 medal sites
***+3 medal sites
^ Allies have clinched the win for the Campaign by this game.

[Mis à jour le: Sat, 12 July 2014 06:07]

      
JFKoski
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Re:Italian Army Royal Army Rules change Sat, 12 July 2014 06:22
After a few months break, I finally finished two of my Italian Campaigns: Operation Compass, with The Railrodder.

We used French Army Rules when applicable, Italian High Command, and 1d Air Power as variants since these rules are from the Equipment Pack but after many scenarios were written.

We both clinched our wins as Allies on the 8th scenario, The Fall of Derna. Next we played for a campaign-match win, which would be the total number of medals, +1s for wins and +1s for medal-sites. I was leading, but Nic won the last 4 games to pull ahead.

I've still got to finish the campaigns with Tony.

I have to say this campaign is geared toward an Allied win. I suppose the Italians might get a few more points if they didn't use Italian High Command, but I like it and don't really want to play an Italian scenario without it at this point. (The Italians would also get a few less points if you used 2d Allied Air Power.)

I've numbered my campaigns as I started so these were #11 and #12, though I haven't finished that many. I find campaigns not that enjoyable. Usually the campaign is finished before the last scenario, so playing that one is not as fun as if it were just a regular scenario we met for one night.

I've played Nic in all the Italian scenarios I know of by RBorg and jdrommel (unless they've added some more in the last 3 months).
      
    
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