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stevens
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Manado Landings - Paradrop Thu, 14 February 2013 12:52
When the Axis player is getting ready to use his paradrop action, if an Allied unit is occupying one of the hexes with the Battle Star, may the paradrop continue over that hex, or does the presence of the Allied unit deny that opportunity on this turn?

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 14 February 2013 12:53]

      
Turboheizer
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Re:Manado Landings - Paradrop Thu, 14 February 2013 13:42
Quote:

Once in full daylight, as long as the Axis player has enough figures to form full airborne units, he may attempt to airdrop units on hexes marked with a battle star each turn (Actions 20 - Paradrop). Each paradrop requires an order (for example, with an "Attack" card, the Axis player may airdrop 3 units, or move 2 ground units and airdrop 1 unit, etc.). Each time a unit successfully drops on one of these hexes, remove the corresponding battle star (to keep track of the total number of units dropped).


My understanding is that these units can only be dropped onto the hex with the battle star (hence the wording "may attempt" - if the dropped figures all miss this hex, the unit may not be placed on adjacent hexes, and the attempt has failed). So, if the hex is already occupied, no unit can be dropped onto this point until the hex is vacated.
      
stevens
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Re:Manado Landings - Paradrop Thu, 14 February 2013 15:21
Turboheizer wrote on Thu, 14 February 2013 07:42

Quote:

Once in full daylight, as long as the Axis player has enough figures to form full airborne units, he may attempt to airdrop units on hexes marked with a battle star each turn (Actions 20 - Paradrop). Each paradrop requires an order (for example, with an "Attack" card, the Axis player may airdrop 3 units, or move 2 ground units and airdrop 1 unit, etc.). Each time a unit successfully drops on one of these hexes, remove the corresponding battle star (to keep track of the total number of units dropped).


My understanding is that these units can only be dropped onto the hex with the battle star (hence the wording "may attempt" - if the dropped figures all miss this hex, the unit may not be placed on adjacent hexes, and the attempt has failed). So, if the hex is already occupied, no unit can be dropped onto this point until the hex is vacated.



P.9 FAQ Supplement
MANADO LANDINGS
Quote:

Q. How do you perform the paradrop function in Manado Landings?
A. For each unit ordered, a single Infantry figure (paratrooper) must be dropped from directly above a hex with a Battle Star. If the drop is successful and that unit lands safely, regardless of where it lands on the board, then the Battle Star over which it was originally dropped is removed and the successful figure is given 3 other figures to create a full unit. If the fall was unsuccessful, the Battle Star remains and the unsuccessful figure is removed from the board to try again later. Then the next ordered paratrooper is dropped. This continues until all orders for the paradrop are complete. This means that the Axis player can eventually gain a unit for each Battle Star, though it may take a while.


It seems that on what particular hex the paradrop unit lands is irrelevant (as long as it lands safely - not off the board and not in a hex that is occupied by another unit). The important aspect is that it must initially be dropped from an area over the Battle Star and so landing EXACTLY on that hex is not a deterrent to success.
I may be incorrect, but I don't believe the intent of the rules is for a safely landed paradrop unit to be moved and placed on the Battle Star over which it was dropped as its starting point, rather it starts its turn from the hex on which it lands. If this is correct, then the Battle Star hex being occupied by the Allies becomes irrelevant. This is why I may have answered my own question.
However, if it is required that the safely dropped unit be immediately moved to the Battle Star hex over which is was dropped and that hex is already occupied by any other unit then the drop would have failed.

More discussion would be appreciated.

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 14 February 2013 15:52]

      
Zalamence
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Re:Manado Landings - Paradrop Thu, 14 February 2013 16:41
I think the intention of the hexes marked with battle stars is to direct players to drop troops over certain areas. So, in Manado Landings the Axis player shouldn't drop Giretsu on the beaches, but close to the airfield.

Similarly, in CB2 Break Through Normandy the Allied player has to scatter his paras all over the map, not neatly to some corner.
      
stevens
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Re:Manado Landings - Paradrop Thu, 14 February 2013 16:53
Zalamence wrote on Thu, 14 February 2013 10:41

I think the intention of the hexes marked with battle stars is to direct players to drop troops over certain areas. So, in Manado Landings the Axis player shouldn't drop Giretsu on the beaches, but close to the airfield.

Similarly, in CB2 Break Through Normandy the Allied player has to scatter his paras all over the map, not neatly to some corner.


I am not certain that I understand your comments, how do they relate to the question below:
Quote:

When the Axis player is getting ready to use his paradrop action, if an Allied unit is occupying one of the hexes with the Battle Star, may the paradrop continue over that hex, or does the presence of the Allied unit deny that opportunity on this turn?


Ah-hah! Unless, you are saying the ONLY VALUE that the Battle Star tokens have is to indicate where to drop your units. Therefore, whether a unit is on the hex or not does not inhibit the Paradrop.
Zalamence, am I reading the intent of your post correctly?

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 14 February 2013 17:20]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:Manado Landings - Paradrop Thu, 14 February 2013 18:01
I think Zalamence is correct. The Stars only tell you what area of the map to drop your troops over.

There is nothing in the rules to indicate that you would move your dropped troops once they have landed. That would go against every other paradrop event we've seen so far; it would have been outlined very clearly in the rules.

The fact that the hex is occupied will have no bearing on the drop unless the dropped troop ends up in the same hex with it... Smile
      
stevens
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Re:Manado Landings - Paradrop Thu, 14 February 2013 18:12
rasmussen81 wrote on Thu, 14 February 2013 12:01

I think Zalamence is correct. The Stars only tell you what area of the map to drop your troops over.

There is nothing in the rules to indicate that you would move your dropped troops once they have landed. That would go against every other paradrop event we've seen so far; it would have been outlined very clearly in the rules.

The fact that the hex is occupied will have no bearing on the drop unless the dropped troop ends up in the same hex with it... Smile


Yes, I believe that to be correct as well. Our tournament group is getting ready to play this scenario and I was certain this question would arise, that is why I wanted to get a consensus before we started. Thanks guys for all your thoughts.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Manado Landings - Paradrop Thu, 14 February 2013 18:39
stevens wrote on Thu, 14 February 2013 21:12

rasmussen81 wrote on Thu, 14 February 2013 12:01

I think Zalamence is correct. The Stars only tell you what area of the map to drop your troops over.

There is nothing in the rules to indicate that you would move your dropped troops once they have landed. That would go against every other paradrop event we've seen so far; it would have been outlined very clearly in the rules.

The fact that the hex is occupied will have no bearing on the drop unless the dropped troop ends up in the same hex with it... Smile


Yes, I believe that to be correct as well. Our tournament group is getting ready to play this scenario and I was certain this question would arise, that is why I wanted to get a consensus before we started. Thanks guys for all your thoughts.


Are you sure this question would come up? Sometimes I think it would be better to answer the question after it is asked instead of trying to guess what people are going to wonder about before it happens.

To each his own, I guess. Very Happy
      
stevens
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Re:Manado Landings - Paradrop Thu, 14 February 2013 21:50
rasmussen81 wrote on Thu, 14 February 2013 12:39


Are you sure this question would come up? Sometimes I think it would be better to answer the question after it is asked instead of trying to guess what people are going to wonder about before it happens.

To each his own, I guess. Very Happy


Enquiring minds need to know. I always have been an inquisitive sort.

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The good thing is that there is balance.
Cool

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 14 February 2013 22:18]

      
jdrommel
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Re:Manado Landings - Paradrop Thu, 14 February 2013 22:12
Hello Gentlemen,

I think I can give you the right way for Manado Landings. Maybe the translation in English make a little confusion. I am sorry for that. Embarassed

In a real battle, I know, by experience, that the place where a paratrooper want to land and the place where actually he lands are often very different. So, in the scenario, the battlestars are used only to "mark" the place of the planned airdrop and the paratroopers can landed on every hexagons, free of enemy, as said in the "Paradrop rules" (Actions 20). Once a unit was dropped from the vertical of an hexagon with a battlestar, this dropping zone, materialized by the battlestar, is removed and no more used for another airdrop.

Please, take into consideration that I try to give simple rules for a scenario in order to be very close of the real battle.

I hope this explanation answer to your questions.
And have fun with this scenario.

Yours, Smile
Jdrommel.
      
stevens
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Re:Manado Landings - Paradrop Thu, 14 February 2013 22:30
Thank you kind sir! your explanation about where one wants to land and where one eventually does land says it all.
      
g1ul10
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Re:Manado Landings - Paradrop Sun, 16 February 2014 11:58
Sorry to bother. Maybe it's just me, but I see a difference between the wording in the FAQ and what jdrommel wrote in this thread. According to the FAQ

Quote:

... If the fall was unsuccessful, the Battle Star remains and the unsuccessful figure is removed from the board to try again later


This means that the Japanese player is allowed to retry to drop units until eventually FIVE units land safely. Conversely jdrommel wrote

Quote:

Once a unit was dropped from the vertical of an hexagon with a battlestar, this dropping zone, materialized by the battlestar, is removed and no more used for another airdrop


I noticed that jdrommel wrote "was dropped" and not "landed safely" so I read this to say that the Japanese player is allowed to TRY to drop a paratroop unit for EACH star (with the usual cost in terms of action points) BUT he/she is not guaranteed on the final number of units that will land safely.

I'm not sure if I correctly interpreted what jdrommel meant. Any clarification will be appreciated. I'm going to play this scenario in the near future and I'd like to play it the way it was intended to be played by its creator Smile
      
sam1812
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Re:Manado Landings - Paradrop Sun, 16 February 2014 15:25
g1ul10 wrote on Sun, 16 February 2014 05:58

Quote:

... If the fall was unsuccessful, the Battle Star remains and the unsuccessful figure is removed from the board to try again later


This means that the Japanese player is allowed to retry to drop units until eventually FIVE units land safely. Conversely jdrommel wrote

Quote:

Once a unit was dropped from the vertical of an hexagon with a battlestar, this dropping zone, materialized by the battlestar, is removed and no more used for another airdrop


I noticed that jdrommel wrote "was dropped" and not "landed safely" so I read this to say that the Japanese player is allowed to TRY to drop a paratroop unit for EACH star (with the usual cost in terms of action points) BUT he/she is not guaranteed on the final number of units that will land safely.

After a successful paradrop (the clarification in the FAQ specifies, "each time a unit successfully drops"), that Battle Star target is removed, so you can't drop additional units over the same target. You can continue trying paradrops until you have five successes -- one at each of the Battle Stars.
      
    
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