Five Tribes Five Tribes

Forums

Recherche
Forums » Small World - English » Sorcerer: how does he work?
Montrer: Messages du jour 
  
AuteurSujet
DeriusDen
Junior Member

Messages: 20
Enregistré(e) en :
April 2013
  Sorcerer: how does he work? Tue, 23 April 2013 15:24
Simple question. Maybe I can't get it because English is not my native language. The topic is how sorcerer works.
By example. How much sorcerer tokens do I need to conquer a region with 1 active race enemy token, if I am going to convert this token in to a sorcerer? Two sorcerers tokens, one or three? : )

[Mis à jour le: Tue, 23 April 2013 18:37]

      
*player377725
Member

Messages: 43
Enregistré(e) en :
September 2007
Re:Sorcerer: how does he work Tue, 23 April 2013 15:40
None. When you use the sorcerer's power you actually replace the enemy token with one of you own from the race token tray. Since the territory now only holds one of your tokens, it's like you conquered it.
      
DeriusDen
Junior Member

Messages: 20
Enregistré(e) en :
April 2013
Re:Sorcerer: how does he work Tue, 23 April 2013 17:08
So, to conquer a territory with 1 enemy active race token, I need just some spare sorcerer tokens, at least - one token. Is it right?

Example: 1 enemy token with fortress and mountain. I can conquer it, having only one sorcerer token in my hand. Is this right? : )
And that "one sorcerer token" stays in my hand for more conquests (for example, with the dice).

P.S. Sorry that I'm such a dumb Smile))))

[Mis à jour le: Tue, 23 April 2013 17:18]

      
*player377725
Member

Messages: 43
Enregistré(e) en :
September 2007
Re:Sorcerer: how does he work Tue, 23 April 2013 18:38
Someone can correct me, but you shouldn't need any tokens in your hand at all. You can use the sorcerer's power even if you have 0 race tokens you are using to conquer that turn. You do need to have race tokens left in the tray however, so you can't use the power if all your race tokens are on the board already.

[Mis à jour le: Tue, 23 April 2013 18:40]

      
DeriusDen
Junior Member

Messages: 20
Enregistré(e) en :
April 2013
Re:Sorcerer: how does he work Tue, 23 April 2013 18:54
I think, one race token (sorcerer) should be in hand in any case, else you can't initiate a conquest. Socerer's racial ability works while you are making a conquest. But its token stays in hand, if it works as you say...
Besides that, if there are no tokens in tray, you can take a sorcerer token from your hand to replace the enemy race token with yours. So "hand" works as a tray, if tray is empty.

...But still it will be great if someone answer the main question, that is described in my two posts above. Just to make sure that it is really so as I described. Seems it is, but.... It is very strong power, if I can conquer fortress+mountain+1 enemy active race token with just one weak sorcerer token... Nearly a dragon : )

[Mis à jour le: Tue, 23 April 2013 18:56]

      
rasmussen81
DoW Content Provider
Designer's Oath

Pages Perso
Messages: 7133
Enregistré(e) en :
July 2007
Re:Sorcerer: how does he work Tue, 23 April 2013 19:18
DeriusDen wrote on Tue, 23 April 2013 20:54

I think, one race token (sorcerer) should be in hand in any case, else you can't initiate a conquest. Socerer's racial ability works while you are making a conquest. But its token stays in hand, if it works as you say...


You can indeed use the special power even if you don't have any tokens left in your hand.

Quote:

Besides that, if there are no tokens in tray, you can take a sorcerer token from your hand to replace the enemy race token with yours. So "hand" works as a tray, if tray is empty.


No, you can't use tokens from your hand because the rule says that the new token comes from the tray. So even if your hand is full of tokens but the tray is empty, you have to pay full for all of your attacks.

Quote:

...But still it will be great if someone answer the main question, that is described in my two posts above. Just to make sure that it is really so as I described. Seems it is, but.... It is very strong power, if I can conquer fortress+mountain+1 enemy active race token with just one weak sorcerer token... Nearly a dragon : )


Yes, it can be a strong power. But only if your enemy leaves a region with one token in it.

Have fun!
      
DeriusDen
Junior Member

Messages: 20
Enregistré(e) en :
April 2013
Re:Sorcerer: how does he work? Tue, 23 April 2013 19:57
Wow.
Proto Persona and rasmussen81, thanx greatly for clarifications!
      
rasmussen81
DoW Content Provider
Designer's Oath

Pages Perso
Messages: 7133
Enregistré(e) en :
July 2007
Re:Sorcerer: how does he work? Wed, 24 April 2013 04:22
DeriusDen wrote on Tue, 23 April 2013 21:57

Wow.
Proto Persona and rasmussen81, thanx greatly for clarifications!


I'm glad to help! Let us know if you have other questions, and enjoy the game. It's one of my favorites (aside from Memoir '44, also made by Days of Wonder).

Have a great day! Cool
      
*player1138704
Junior Member

Messages: 28
Enregistré(e) en :
September 2012
Re:Sorcerer: how does he work? Wed, 24 April 2013 18:26
Keep in mind that you can only do it once to each player each turn, so it might not be as amazing as you think. And you need to be able to have attacked the enemy location normally (can't just swap out a lone unit from across the map).
      
blaxnlion
Senior Member

Messages: 285
Enregistré(e) en :
January 2013
Re:Sorcerer: how does he work? Wed, 24 April 2013 22:55
May I add you cannot use this ability on one single token that occupies a region with a Fortress or a Bivouacking token (because in this situation, your token is not regarded as being alone). But it can work on a lonely Troll in its Lair, but you don't keep the Troll Lair.
      
*player377725
Member

Messages: 43
Enregistré(e) en :
September 2007
Re:Sorcerer: how does he work? Thu, 25 April 2013 01:59
blaxnlion wrote on Wed, 24 April 2013 15:55

May I add you cannot use this ability on one single token that occupies a region with a Fortress or a Bivouacking token (because in this situation, your token is not regarded as being alone). But it can work on a lonely Troll in its Lair, but you don't keep the Troll Lair.

Pretty sure you're right about bivouacking, wrong on fortresses. Page 9 under the sorcerers power description specifically says fortresses do not protect single units.

Basically if the token not provide immunity or count as a race token like encampments do, then a single token is fair game for sorcerers.

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 25 April 2013 02:00]

      
DeriusDen
Junior Member

Messages: 20
Enregistré(e) en :
April 2013
Re:Sorcerer: how does he work? Thu, 25 April 2013 10:44
Seems that sorcerer (and the same concerning vampirizing power from SWU) is a good race for a everyturn rush. Like gypsy. The best method is to free all previously occupied regions and to invade the enemy from the other side, in the place with 1-token-defended regions.
And sorcerer is much better in 4+ players game. If it is 2-3 players on the map, opponents will do their best to defend the regions with 2+ tokens and never less.

P.S. Yes, fortresses are just fortresses, a huge buildings, they don't save from sorcerer's racial ability. And bivouacks are something like "some people on a camping", so they do count.
      
rasmussen81
DoW Content Provider
Designer's Oath

Pages Perso
Messages: 7133
Enregistré(e) en :
July 2007
Re:Sorcerer: how does he work? Thu, 25 April 2013 11:00
DeriusDen wrote on Thu, 25 April 2013 12:44

Seems that sorcerer (and the same concerning vampirizing power from SWU) is a good race for a everyturn rush. Like gypsy. The best method is to free all previously occupied regions and to invade the enemy from the other side, in the place with 1-token-defended regions.
And sorcerer is much better in 4+ players game. If it is 2-3 players on the map, opponents will do their best to defend the regions with 2+ tokens and never less.

P.S. Yes, fortresses are just fortresses, a huge buildings, they don't save from sorcerer's racial ability. And bivouacks are something like "some people on a camping", so they do count.



You can try this strategy, but if you do this very often you'll actually get less points overall because you're giving up the free points from regions you already control. You might hurt other players more, but in the long run you won't get as many coins. Cool
      
DeriusDen
Junior Member

Messages: 20
Enregistré(e) en :
April 2013
Re:Sorcerer: how does he work? Thu, 25 April 2013 11:41
Making the topic wider - seems that the best strategy is just accumulating victory coins for yourself, regardless of others, but trying to hurt others as much as possible while playing on your own.
Aggressive play comes to the fact that you waste all your troops for war, but have not enough income. Especially with 4+ players.
Mere economic strategy faces some "skeleton merchants" (example from base rules), that get too much victory coins and should be stopped anyway.
So it is better to just play for money and watch for others not to earn too much.
Something like this?
      
rasmussen81
DoW Content Provider
Designer's Oath

Pages Perso
Messages: 7133
Enregistré(e) en :
July 2007
Re:Sorcerer: how does he work? Thu, 25 April 2013 12:51
DeriusDen wrote on Thu, 25 April 2013 13:41

Making the topic wider - seems that the best strategy is just accumulating victory coins for yourself, regardless of others, but trying to hurt others as much as possible while playing on your own.
Aggressive play comes to the fact that you waste all your troops for war, but have not enough income. Especially with 4+ players.
Mere economic strategy faces some "skeleton merchants" (example from base rules), that get too much victory coins and should be stopped anyway.
So it is better to just play for money and watch for others not to earn too much.
Something like this?


Sure, something like that can work. The beautiful thing about this game is that there isn't a 'key to victory'. There isn't just one strategy that will result in victory every time.

Like you said, the Sorcerer can be strong, but once players figure that out, they can prevent the race from being as useful by keeping more tokens on their regions, attacking the player who has sorcerer, and limiting the use of the special power. It doesn't always work, but in the games with my friends, Sorcerer isn't the most amazing combination.
      
blaxnlion
Senior Member

Messages: 285
Enregistré(e) en :
January 2013
Re:Sorcerer: how does he work? Thu, 25 April 2013 23:01
Proto Persona écrit le Thu, 25 April 2013 01:59

blaxnlion wrote on Wed, 24 April 2013 15:55

May I add you cannot use this ability on one single token that occupies a region with a Fortress or a Bivouacking token (because in this situation, your token is not regarded as being alone). But it can work on a lonely Troll in its Lair, but you don't keep the Troll Lair.

Pretty sure you're right about bivouacking, wrong on fortresses. Page 9 under the sorcerers power description specifically says fortresses do not protect single units.

Basically if the token not provide immunity or count as a race token like encampments do, then a single token is fair game for sorcerers.


My mistake !
      
*player1138704
Junior Member

Messages: 28
Enregistré(e) en :
September 2012
Re:Sorcerer: how does he work? Fri, 26 April 2013 08:26
I've found that the benefit in picking Sorcerers is not in their actual gaining troops (which you usually only get to use a few times), but that it limits how much other players are willing to expand because they want to have enough units to double up all their regions and protect themselves from your ability. So they will conquer less regions then they would have normally, giving them less points and leaving open more spots for you to take.
      
*player377725
Member

Messages: 43
Enregistré(e) en :
September 2007
Re:Sorcerer: how does he work? Fri, 26 April 2013 20:38
agrabah wrote on Fri, 26 April 2013 01:26

I've found that the benefit in picking Sorcerers is not in their actual gaining troops (which you usually only get to use a few times), but that it limits how much other players are willing to expand because they want to have enough units to double up all their regions and protect themselves from your ability. So they will conquer less regions then they would have normally, giving them less points and leaving open more spots for you to take.

Or all your opponents start attacking you to control your numbers ensuring you lose more troops than you can gain with your ability. Sadly I've been on the receiving end of this as both skeletons and sorcerers.
      
    
Sujet précédent:Sorcerer with catapult
Sujet suivant:Ghouls and Redeploying
Aller au forum: