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scdit46
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  armored train Wed, 02 January 2008 15:46
With a Recon-1 order:
Can the armored train move and battle?
Is right?

[Mis à jour le: Wed, 02 January 2008 15:53]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:armored train Wed, 02 January 2008 16:19
This is what the "Armored Trains" card says (Troops #7)

Armored Train carries one Artillery piece on its Wagon
* Train may move and the Artillery can still fire
* Artillery on Wagon fires as regular Artillery
* Artillery on Wagon is destroyed when wagon is destroyed (3 hits)

So as long as the train is in the same section as your reccon-1 card (so you can order the train) then you can move the train and attack an enemy unit.

I hope this explains your question.

[Mis à jour le: Wed, 02 January 2008 16:21]

      
ColtsFan76
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Re:armored train Wed, 02 January 2008 16:20
Yes. Section cards and any Tactic cards that just say "order X units" (without specifing Infantry, Armor, or Artillery), may move ANY unit.

Also, the train can move and battle when ordered.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:armored train Wed, 02 January 2008 16:23
What if you have an Artillery Bombard card? Does that mean you can move the train (because they're connected) or can you only fire the artillery twice? Confused And if you can move the train, can you move it further but not battle, just like if the unit was artillery? Shocked

What do you think ColtsFan?
      
scdit46
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Re:armored train Wed, 02 January 2008 16:23
Then the train and the above artillery is the same unit.

Is rigth?
      
ColtsFan76
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Re:armored train Wed, 02 January 2008 16:58
rasmussen81 wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 09:23

What if you have an Artillery Bombard card? Does that mean you can move the train (because they're connected) or can you only fire the artillery twice? Confused And if you can move the train, can you move it further but not battle, just like if the unit was artillery? Shocked

What do you think ColtsFan?

Artillery bombard only activates Artillery. However, the artillery is not really artillery as it is combined with the train to make a new unit: the Armored Train. (So these two train pieces and the artillery make up one single unit that can move up to 3 spaces forward or backward along the track and shoot 3-3-2-2-1-1; hit only on grenades; able to ignore 1 flag; having 4 life points and counting as 1 medal)

Units not described on a card cannot be moved by that card. So Artillery Bombard would do nothing for the Armored Train (unless of course you had no artillery on the board and used the "move 1 unit of your choice" option).
      
rasmussen81
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Re:armored train Wed, 02 January 2008 17:05
That's kind of what I was thinking too. But to clarify...the artillery is actually destroyed after 3 hits and the engine is gone after 4. And the artillery does not count as a medal until the whole train is destroyed.

[Mis à jour le: Wed, 02 January 2008 17:06]

      
ColtsFan76
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Re:armored train Wed, 02 January 2008 17:43
rasmussen81 wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 10:05

That's kind of what I was thinking too. But to clarify...the artillery is actually destroyed after 3 hits and the engine is gone after 4. And the artillery does not count as a medal until the whole train is destroyed.

Yes, you are correct. I was debating how much to summarize when i typed it. Very Happy
      
JFKoski
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Re:armored train Tue, 07 May 2013 06:00
I hope was hoping this wouldn't come up, but did in my 3rd game of Kiev today. I thought I hadn't seen an official answer in the forums or FAQs, but we took a break to look for it, and this thread was the closest I found.

Russians played Artillery Bombard, and wanted to attack twice with his Armored Train (artillery in wagon).

I like the idea that an Armored Train is like a Destroyer and could only be activated by this card for 1 attack if there were no artillery on the board:
ColtsFan76 wrote on Wed, 02 January 2008 10:58

Artillery bombard only activates Artillery. However, the artillery is not really artillery as it is combined with the train to make a new unit: the Armored Train. (So these two train pieces and the artillery make up one single unit that can move up to 3 spaces forward or backward along the track and shoot 3-3-2-2-1-1; hit only on grenades; able to ignore 1 flag; having 4 life points and counting as 1 medal)

Units not described on a card cannot be moved by that card. So Artillery Bombard would do nothing for the Armored Train (unless of course you had no artillery on the board and used the "move 1 unit of your choice" option).

But the card says "Artillery on Wagon fires as regular Artillery," so we did it like a Mobile Artillery that can't move and attack when ordered by Artillery Bombard, but can still fire twice.
http://static.memoir44.com/lang/english/images/mm_compendium_troop_7.jpg
Do we have an official ruling?

[Mis à jour le: Tue, 07 May 2013 06:02]

      
sam1812
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Re:armored train Tue, 07 May 2013 06:24
You can make a case for either side. I agree with ColtsFan's analysis. (He was one of the leading Memoir scholars when I first came to this neighborhood. I miss having him around.)

It's a train, not an artillery. The artillery figure is used as a marker, and the comparison to an artillery's battling is useful shorthand, but the card stops short of saying that it would be ordered as an artillery.
      
50th
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Re:armored train Thu, 09 May 2013 00:57
sam1812 wrote on Mon, 06 May 2013 23:24

You can make a case for either side. I agree with ColtsFan's analysis. (He was one of the leading Memoir scholars when I first came to this neighborhood. I miss having him around.)

It's a train, not an artillery. The artillery figure is used as a marker, and the comparison to an artillery's battling is useful shorthand, but the card stops short of saying that it would be ordered as an artillery.


I agree with Sam, it doesn't take damage like artillery, it doesn't move like artillery (1-3 per troops card #5), so if it doesn't look like a duck, quack like a duck, or waddle like a duck, it isn't a duck!

      
stevens
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Re:armored train Thu, 09 May 2013 03:40
sam1812 wrote on Tue, 07 May 2013 00:24

You can make a case for either side. I agree with ColtsFan's analysis. (He was one of the leading Memoir scholars when I first came to this neighborhood. I miss having him around.)

It's a train, not an artillery. The artillery figure is used as a marker, and the comparison to an artillery's battling is useful shorthand, but the card stops short of saying that it would be ordered as an artillery.

Check this out....

P.13 Terrain Pack Rules
Quote:

ARMORED TRAIN
An armored train contains an artillery figure on its wagon piece. It may move up to 3 hexes and still battle. Apply the artillery range and firepower regular rules. Use the other train rules above for movement and counting damages (four grenades to destroy the train).


Yes, the range and firepower are taken into account, but the fact remains that the gun is part of a Train unit and not a normal Artillery. In much the same way the guns on a Destroyer use range and firepower like an artillery but are Destroyers and hence not artillery.

I think Coltsfan had it right in the beginning.
      
    
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