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rjginther
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August 2013
Retreat? Fri, 30 August 2013 18:26
Hello everyone,

I am new to the game and while I think I have the rules down pretty well, we ran into a retreat situation that didn't make much sense.

I know the retreat has you always going towards your side of the board, but what if the attack actually comes from behind and you find yourself "retreating" right into the firing unit?

I scanned the FAQ, but didn't see this addressed. Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks,

Ron
      
stevens
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Historien accompli

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February 2007
Re:Retreat? Fri, 30 August 2013 18:41
rjginther wrote on Fri, 30 August 2013 12:26

Hello everyone,

I am new to the game and while I think I have the rules down pretty well, we ran into a retreat situation that didn't make much sense.

I know the retreat has you always going towards your side of the board, but what if the attack actually comes from behind and you find yourself "retreating" right into the firing unit?

I scanned the FAQ, but didn't see this addressed. Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks,

Ron

Yes, thems is the rules. You may alter them with your friends in a friendly face to face, but the game does not deviate from them. They are probably not addressed in the FAQ because the original rule set is pretty clear:

P.10 Memoir Base Game Rules
Quote:

A unit must always retreat toward its controlling player's side of the board.


The advantage to the consistency of this of approach is singular, it is simple and both players know what to expect. For your opponent, knowing you must retreat towards his oncoming units allows him to attack and kill you off more efficiently. So it is incumbent on you to always be aware of where you maneuver your troops so as not to put them in a deadly and compromising position. This failing is typical of neophytes. The old pros avoid this situation with more finesse.

[Mis à jour le: Fri, 30 August 2013 19:18]

      
Erik Uitdebroeck
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Re:Retreat? Fri, 30 August 2013 18:42
Retreat is always towards your side of the board. If the firing unit is behind you, you have to retreat towards the firing unit.
Seems illogical, but these are the rules.
I hope this answer helps you out.
      
ready2go
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February 2011
Re:Retreat? Sat, 31 August 2013 05:52
And that of course also creates the possibility of an attacker strategically blocking a retreat. There are only two possible retreating hexes (toward the defender). If the attacker places two units in the those hexes then the defender has no retreat and flags count as kills.

As an additional thought, in reality a person may want to leave more space between them and their attacking unit, but if they are are in trouble, they don't want to get too close to the rest of the opposing military. They want to get back to their HQ. If the rule stated to retreat away from the firing unit, in some cases this would push a unit away from his HQ and into the face of even more enemy units.

The rule didn't make much sense to me when I first began playing, but it works out well all things considered. The consistency is important at least.
      
rjginther
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Re:Retreat? Sat, 31 August 2013 08:52
Thanks guys, I know I wasnt missing anything now!

      
Achtung Panzer
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Re:Retreat? Sat, 31 August 2013 16:15
ready2go wrote on Sat, 31 August 2013 04:52

The rule didn't make much sense to me when I first began playing, but it works out well all things considered. The consistency is important at least.


Given that there are no flanks or facings in M'44 this rule allows and encourages flank attacks by surrounding a unit (cutting off its retreat) and forcing its surrender or capturing prisoners (i.e. losing models) to represent a pincer movement.

It's more historical than illogical.

[Mis à jour le: Sat, 31 August 2013 16:16]

      
Almilcar
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Re:Retreat? Sat, 31 August 2013 21:10
Achtung Panzer wrote on Sat, 31 August 2013 16:15

ready2go wrote on Sat, 31 August 2013 04:52

The rule didn't make much sense to me when I first began playing, but it works out well all things considered. The consistency is important at least.


Given that there are no flanks or facings in M'44 this rule allows and encourages flank attacks by surrounding a unit (cutting off its retreat) and forcing its surrender or capturing prisoners (i.e. losing models) to represent a pincer movement.

It's more historical than illogical.


Also, I always think of "retreat" as a way to get help from other units that are on my baseline. Sometimes might seem inappropiate depending on the situation, but as a general rule, some other friendly units may cover you in your retreat.
      
50th
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Re:Retreat? Mon, 02 September 2013 15:09
I sometimes play face to face games with a friend that uses that tactic of placing his units to block my retreats. It kinda sucks to lose units on their symbol (especially infantry since there are two symbols on each die), grenade, and then flags, because they cannot retreat!

Makes me want to growl at him!!
      
Jeronimon
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Re:Retreat? Mon, 02 September 2013 15:23
50th wrote on Mon, 02 September 2013 15:09

I sometimes play face to face games with a friend that uses that tactic of placing his units to block my retreats. It kinda sucks to lose units on their symbol (especially infantry since there are two symbols on each die), grenade, and then flags, because they cannot retreat!

Makes me want to growl at him!!

I am a little bit surprised you feel that way, I would think it standard practice to try to maneuver units so flags also kill. I certainly try to profit from that as much as possible.
      
50th
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Re:Retreat? Mon, 02 September 2013 15:26
Well, I know it's a good tactic, but somehow feels less than good sportsmanship, or gamemanship.
However it feels, it is a good and valid tactic.
Harder to do when you are outnumbered in one flank or another.

      
Erik Uitdebroeck
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Re:Retreat? Mon, 02 September 2013 19:34
You can see it as a micro-pincer move ...
Rolling Eyes
      
Aussie_Digger
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Re:Retreat? Tue, 03 September 2013 08:29
50th wrote on Mon, 02 September 2013 22:56

Well, I know it's a good tactic, but somehow feels less than good sportsmanship, or gamemanship.
However it feels, it is a good and valid tactic.
Harder to do when you are outnumbered in one flank or another.




I don't see this as being un gamemanship like at all. To pull off this manouver it takes planning and good card management (thats if your enemy donsnt put themself in this position). So to pull this off you have shown to have out played your enemy and reap the rewards. Plus isnt this sort of manouver what every army had tried to do all through history.
      
Jaykay2010
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Michael Wittmann

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Re:Retreat? Tue, 03 September 2013 12:35
I agree with Aussie_Digger, and others above, blocking off your opponents retreat path is highly tactical and takes some planning, but reaps huge rewards ..

I don't consider surrounding your enemy in this way to be poor gamesmanship, really it is something your enemy should be guarding themselves against when advancing, or when vulnerable to attack. I would certainly have no hesitation in blocking all retreat paths to increase my chance of hitting the target! Smile
      
Sgt Storm
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Re:Retreat? Wed, 04 September 2013 18:24
In my experience, often the flanking occurs because one side attacked too deeply into enemy territory, either without supporting forces or because enough supporting units were not also ordered. Seems entirely fair to wipe those suckers out if they failed in their mission behind enemy lines.

Of course, if the attack succeeds, it is also possible that the attacker now significantly outnumbers the attacked players units and encirclement is the result. However, on a standard board I find the attacked players units are usually lost due to retreats off the board, and although encirclement (by armour usually) is possible, its not always better than simple retreats. This second case may be due to limited card choices or too few units to defend, but its certainly good sportsmanship to take advantage of that.

After all, this is a war game and blood will be shed.
      
    
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