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draziL
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The last lost Pygmy Mon, 02 September 2013 11:51
Hello

Reading the rules for the Igors and Fauns upcoming races, I realized that the race token(s) lost in a conquest, are not immediatlely considered as available (i.e. in tray) tokens. So, in case all Pygmy tokens are on the map and a Pygmy area is conquered (which means a Pygmy token is lost), does it make any sense for the Pygmies' owner to roll the re-inforcement die ? Will he/she be able to get back the Pygmy token that was just lost in case something more than zero is rolled (assuming that Pygmies were not attacked by Igors) ?

[Mis à jour le: Mon, 02 September 2013 11:52]

      
Proto Persona
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Re:The last lost Pygmy Mon, 02 September 2013 23:08
If there is no token in the tray because the igors have it, then I'd say you can't roll to get it back. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.
      
draziL
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Re:The last lost Pygmy Sat, 07 September 2013 07:19
Hi

Thank you for your reply. DoW confirmed your answer, i.e. the Pygmies' owner may roll the dice and get his/her token back.

      
Proto Persona
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Re:The last lost Pygmy Sat, 07 September 2013 08:49
draziL wrote on Sat, 07 September 2013 00:19

Hi

Thank you for your reply. DoW confirmed your answer, i.e. the Pygmies' owner may roll the dice and get his/her token back.



I'm a little confused. Can you post the exact question you sent and the answer you got back?
      
draziL
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Re:The last lost Pygmy Sat, 07 September 2013 08:53
Hi

The question was the same as the inital message in this thread.
The answer is:
"Yes, Pygmies would recover tokens on a successful roll, even if this token had just been lost."

      
Proto Persona
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Re:The last lost Pygmy Sat, 07 September 2013 09:33
Ah OK. Now I wonder if it's also true that Igors can stop the pygmies from getting the token back if they haven't turned it in for another race token yet.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:The last lost Pygmy Sat, 07 September 2013 16:11
Proto Persona wrote on Sat, 07 September 2013 11:33

Ah OK. Now I wonder if it's also true that Igors can stop the pygmies from getting the token back if they haven't turned it in for another race token yet.


The answer that DraziL just got would indicate that the answer is no...Pygmies can get their tokens back.
      
Proto Persona
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Re:The last lost Pygmy Sat, 07 September 2013 18:49
rasmussen81 wrote on Sat, 07 September 2013 09:11

Proto Persona wrote on Sat, 07 September 2013 11:33

Ah OK. Now I wonder if it's also true that Igors can stop the pygmies from getting the token back if they haven't turned it in for another race token yet.


The answer that DraziL just got would indicate that the answer is no...Pygmies can get their tokens back.

Hmm. I guess that would make elves and pygmies a kind of counter to igors. Does the app handle it the same way or are igors not in it yet?
      
draziL
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Re:The last lost Pygmy Sat, 07 September 2013 19:41
Proto Persona wrote on Sat, 07 September 2013 19:49


Hmm. I guess that would make elves and pygmies a kind of counter to igors. Does the app handle it the same way or are igors not in it yet?


I am not sure about Igors & Pygmies. Rules for Pygmies read: "...receive as many new Pygmies from the storage tray as
you rolled pips on the die.." Without Igors, the lost token goes to storage tray (and back to pygmies depending on their owners' die roll). When Igors are on the map, the lost token does not reach the storage tray.

Regarding elves, I believe it is clear. The elf token is not lost when the region is conquered and so, it should not go to Igors. (Igors collect tokens lost in conquests).

[Mis à jour le: Sat, 07 September 2013 19:43]

      
draziL
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Re:The last lost Pygmy Thu, 19 September 2013 07:16
Hello

Here is the official DoW answer regarding Igors & Pygmies:

"In that case, Igors would get a token as well. If no token is available (because the Pygmies recovered it, or in any other case) they may use any other unused token (a Lost Tribe for instance) as a replacement."

      
DannyMack
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Re:The last lost Pygmy Fri, 27 September 2013 03:24
The Igors are essentially the same as the Necromancer. And many questions that have been asked in the past about the Necromancer's Well of Souls (some resolved & some ignored) would seem to apply to the Igors as well.
However, a different set of logic seems to be governing the "official answers" you are receiving from DOW right now. Perhaps the current DOW rep is unaware of the past rulings, but he seems to be further complicating this game with this ruling, IMO.

It sounds like the "official" order of events in this scenario is:
> Igors (or another player) attack the Pygmies.
> Pygmies lose 1 token to the tray...but instead to the Igors...
> But on a successful (immediate) roll the Pygmies get their token back in hand.
> In this case the Igors get a placeholder token from the tray in exchange for the Pygmies.

This same problem came up with the Necromancer & Pygmies, and while it was never made fully clear by DOW here, on the BGG forums I seem to remember getting closure, that the Necromancer put the k'bosh of the Pygmies and could choose which tokens from the Well of Souls to use in spawning new Ghosts. Analogous to this, the Igors could theoretically do the same, keeping Pygmies tokens in their "collection" and using any other tokens to spawn fresh Igors.

Here's the somewhat unresolved Necromancer vs. Pygmies thread, with input from Mark @ DOW.

In my unofficial opinion, ProtoPersona's original answer is the simplest & makes the most sense. The Pygmies do roll immediately, but if they roll unsuccessfully and the Igors (or Necromancer) is in the game, the lost token goes there before it goes back to the tray. None of this exchanging mess--if it's not in the tray, the Pygmies shouldn't be allowed to "reincarnate" it.

I got this scenario set up in SW2 to see if the official answer is in step with the official App. It does not appear to be. I will be posting screen caps on BGG, along with a step-by-step breakdown, when I get time (soon). I will try to remember to come back to this thread and post a link to it.
      
    
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