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delirium_trigger
Junior Member

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July 2012
Small World Underground - Strategy Guide and Discussion Wed, 25 July 2012 03:48
So, I've spent a lot of time with Small World Underground. A LOT. I've probably played something like 100 hours of this game with my friends. I don't know if that qualifies me to write a strategy guide, but I love SWU enough that I wanted to put some tips out there, and hopefully get a discussion going. I'm no authority on the game, and it's possible, maybe even likely that I'm playing some rules wrong or my advice sucks. This is an open discussion, so please, feel free to contribute your input.

I'm not finished, but I have a good chunk of stuff written. I'll be rolling out what I have over the next couple days.

GENERAL STRATEGY
-----------------

Still working on this.
      
delirium_trigger
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July 2012
Re:Small World Underground - Strategy Guide and Discussion Wed, 25 July 2012 03:49
RACES
-----

Ogres (5) - -1 to conquer any space - The Ogres seem like a really good attacking race on the surface, but the small amount of tokens they get really limits their general viability. I don't like to get too aggressive with Ogres because even though they have no problem conquering, they don't have the manpower to defend well. The Ogres are a fantastic starting race because they can spread out completely on the first turn (1 token to conquer unoccupied spaces) and then decline on turn 2. Pair them up with a pointing special ability and they can easily rack up 20 points combined through the first two turns and put you in position to score 15 on turn 3.
Good abilities: Muddy, Reborn, Flocking, Mining, Mystic, Wise, Shield

Spiderines (7) - Regions bordered by a chasm are considered adjacent - The Spiderines are one of the top races in the game due to their mobility and army size. They have a lot of potential both in the early game and in the late game. In the early game, they can spread out and set themselves up well for decline. In the later game, they can move almost anywhere on the board to get near the most powerful Relics/Places, and their large army size makes them strong attackers. The Spiderines weakness is that they don't score any points by themselves, so you have to pair them up with a good pointing ability or be able to hold onto pointing Relics/Places. But, the Spiderines are generally a great choice no matter what they get paired with.
Good abilities: Quarreling, Stone, Mystic, Mining, Reborn, Royal, Magic, Vampire, Thieving, Tomb, Wise

Lizardmen (7) - Regions bordering rivers are considered adjacent - The Lizardmen's strategic value is almost the same as the Spiderines, so basically everything I wrote for the Spiders applies here. The Lizardmen are slightly worse than Spiderines because their mobility is limited to the river so they don't have the same easy access to regions that are more inland. Lizardmen are particularly strong on the 4-player map, since the river borders so much of the land on that map.
Good abilities Quarreling, Stone, Mystic, Mining, Reborn, Royal, Magic, Thieving, Tomb, Wise

Mushrooms (5) - +1 VPs for Mushroom Forest regions - The Mushrooms have good point scoring capability, but they are limited by their small army size. Their viability depends a lot on how hotly contested the Mushroom Forest regions are. Since they don't have a lot of mobility, they are usually only going to be able to access 2 or 3 Mushroom Forest regions before they get spread too thin. I like them more as a late game race, because early on you normally won't be able to spread out enough with them to get a good decline.
Flocking, Frightened, Immortal, Magic (particularly if scepter or doormat is in play), Thieving, Royal, Shield, Vampire

Mudmen (5 but max army size is 12) - Take a Mudman from the tray for every mud region controlled at end of turn - The Mudmen are a very good race due to their max army size and resilience. They can be extremely hard to get rid of once they control a bunch of mud spots. The Mudmen don't point well by themselves, so you need to pair them up with a good pointing ability or Relic/Place to make them viable. They are one of the best races at holding onto Relics/Places since there are so many of them for defense and they keep regenerating. The Mudmen can be a good race at any point in the game. You won't want to go into decline with them early since they take a turn or two to reach full strength, so if you're picking them first, you'll want to make sure you can keep up in points with other races who might go into decline early. They are a good second race, too, because they are so strong defensively and can hold onto a lead with the best of them.
Frightened, Muddy, Mining, Mystic, Stone, Thieving

Drow (4) - +1 points for regions that aren't bordered by another race - The Drow are easily the worst race in the game. We have actually been using a house rule to give them 5 tokens instead of 4 because they need it to be viable. Even with this change, they are a below average race. The problem with the Drow is there are so few of them and their special ability is hard to make work. Aside from the very start of the game, there aren't going to be many (or often, any) regions that are not bordered by another race. However, using the Drow at the start of a game can be tough because you won't be spread out enough to score well in decline. Even though you can sneak in a good starting turn when the map is empty, you're going to draw a lot of attention to yourself and likely won't have it so good on turn 2. The Drow CAN be dangerous if they can find a nice barren corner of the map to set up shop. I'll usually see Drow picked late game, though, because you'll probably score a good number of VPs just picking them after they've been passed over so many times and you can sometimes carve out some space for them.
Thieving, Flocking

Flames (4) - Conquer any region as if it were empty if Flames are connected to volcano - The Flames are another race that might sound better than they actually are in practice. Though their ability is very strong for keeping opponents in check, the lack of scoring ability and pitiful army size makes them hard to use without hurting your own chances of winning. Never pick the Flames if you already have a good decline setup on the board, because you will become an easy target to other players and can be forced into decline. I would only pick the Flames in late game situations where a lot of pointing Relics/Places are bunched in one location and heavily guarded, or if it is worth the risk to use them to thin out a dominant player.
Flocking, Immortal, Royal, Vampire, Shield

Mummies (10) - Pay 1 extra Mummy to conquer regions - The sheer numbers of the Mummies make them a very good race at any point of the game. Take them early and you can spread out to set yourself up for a solid decline. My favorite time to pick Mummies is as a second race if I manage to get a good decline setup from my first race. Like Mudmen, the Mummies are one of the top defensive races in the game, so even though they don't score points themselves, they are great for holding onto Relics/Places. Be aware that the Mummies' ability to hold onto regions becomes greatly compromised if the Stinky Sock Relic or Flames are in play.
Magic, Thieving, Tomb, Wise, Mystic, Mining, Muddy, Frightened, Immortal, Flocking, Reborn, Royal

Liches (5) - If conquered in decline, attacker must pay you 1 coin - The Lich ability makes them one of the best starting races to pick, but nearly useless after that. Your goal with the Liches is to spread out and decline as quickly as possible. Once the Liches are in decline, nobody will want to attack them and you will often be scoring points on them for the rest of the game. Beware the Balrog - you will not earn any points if your decline Lich is killed by the Balrog, so your Liches become a top target if the Balrog spawns.
Wise, Muddy, Flocking

Shadow Mimes (7) - Swap Shadow Mime ability with another race's when picking them - The Shadow Mimes get a large army and their ability to take any special ability available makes them a very popular race at any point of the game. There's not much more to say about them. One thing you can do with the Shadow Mimes is ruin a dominant combination that is too expensive for you to take at the time. For example, if you don't think it's worth paying 5 for Immortal Mummies at the bottom of the list, you can take the Mimes and swap abilities with the Mummies to prevent someone else from getting that later on.

Will o' Wisps (6) - Roll on any crystal region, or any region adjacent to a crystal region you control - An average race, highly dependent on luck.
Mystic, Stone, Mining, Muddy

Gnomes (6) - Immune from any attackers' racial/special abilities or Relics - Even though they only have an average army size and don't score points, the Gnomes can be very formidable because of their defensive value. Their ability to suceed depends a lot on what other races and Relics/Places are in play. If the following are in play, the Gnomes are a very good race to consider if you can pair them with solid pointing: Stinky Sock, Sword, Shiny Orb, Flying Doormat, Balrog, Flames, Ogres, Iron Dwarves, Spiderines, Vengeful, Vampire. The Gnomes are much less useful when there aren't powerful offensive options in play, or if they can't find a good way to score points. Gnomes CAN be robbed by the Thieving ability or Froggy's Ring.
Mystic, Flocking, Mining, Stone, Muddy, Magic, Thieving

Kraken (5) - Can occupy river regions - The Kraken seem to get passed on a lot earlier in the game and then accumulate points to become a good end game race. Late in the game, they can spread out easier than any other race because rivers can be conquered for 1 token and there won't be any other races to contend with on these spaces. The Kraken can also be a good first race to pick, particularly with a pointing special ability, as they can spread out on turn 1 for a quick decline on turn 2. Kraken are a slightly better choice on the 4 and 5 player maps where there are more river spaces to take advantage of.
Muddy, Mystic, Mining, Royal

Iron Dwarves (7) - Gains hammers (tokens used only for attacking) for each mining region held at end of turn - The Iron Dwarves are the most dangerous offensive race in the game with their large army size and ability to gain up to 7 additional attacking tokens. They can potentially have up to 19 tokens to attack with! However, their high offense means they can quickly spread themselves thin and become an easy target for opponents, with whom the Dwarves will surely have made enemies of. The Dwarves need a pointing ability or Relic/Place to be truly effective, but unlike most other races who don't score points, they can sometimes score just on their ability to spread out and control many regions. Don't forget about the strategy of abandoning all of your regions and starting fresh on a new edge of the map - the Dwarves are probably the best in the game at doing this because they can easily grab well-defended, valuable Relics/Places anywhere on the map as their offense will always be strong. It is often wise to keep your Dwarves tightly packed on a smaller area of valuable regions than spreading out and making yourself an easy target. Note: I DON'T agree with the official FAQ ruling that they should be able to use their hammers to attack even if they don't have any dwarf tokens left - I don't play that way.
Immortal, Martyr, Mining, Muddy, Mystic, Reborn, Royal, Shield, Stone, Thieving,

Cultists (5) - Gains a Great Ancient token which grants immunity to a region and the ability to conquer surrounding regions at -1 - The Cultist immunity token is the star of the Cultists' game plan. Since the Cultists don't score points by themselves and they have a small army size, it becomes important for Cultists to grab a valuable region and lock it down. Taking Cultists at the start of the game before the Relics/Places have been revealed can be risky, but it can also pay off if you find something valuable. If you don't get anything good, at least you can spread out quickly with their ability to conquer spaces at -1, and then shoot for an early decline. Once all the relics are in play, the Cultists can be a great choice for a second race if you can jump on something powerful and lock it down with the Great Ancient. Pretty good defensive race for locking down small, valuable pockets of land.

[Mis à jour le: Wed, 25 July 2012 07:41]

      
delirium_trigger
Junior Member

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July 2012
Re:Small World Underground - Strategy Guide and Discussion Wed, 25 July 2012 04:08
ABILITIES
-------

Adventurous (5) - +1 VP for each Popular Place - Adventurous isn't always one of the best powers, but it can be good if you are able to hold onto a couple of Places. Popular Places will have their own benefits, so you'll get even more value for these spaces. The problem is you really need more than one Place to get good value from this ability, and since Place locations come out random, it doesn't always work out that your race will have access to multiple Places at one time. Another problem is that these spots are often hotly contested so it might be more trouble than it is worth to hold these regions.

Fisher (4) - +1 VP for every pair of coastal regions - Not great, but situationally useful. You really have to be able to spread yourself out well to benefit from this, and if the riverside spaces are already contested by other races, it can be more trouble than its worth.

Flocking (5) - +2 VPs if your race forms a single set of regions - One of the better powers in the game because it is so easy to get those +2 VPs and your army will be at full size from the 5 ability tokens. The biggest drawback is that your mobility will suffer because you lose that bonus if you cross the river or use the Flying Doormat or Pipes to expand. This is a good power for most races, but terrible for Lizardmen and Spiderines.

Frightened (4) - +1 VP for each region that has 3 or more of your tokens at end of turn - A good power that can lead to some big points, especially if paired with a good pointing race or Relic/Place. The main benefit comes from the fact that you can point well while controlling a small number of regions, which helps to consolidate troops for defense. One drawback is that it can become difficult to score Frightened points and heavily defend a single valuable region, because you can't stack your whole army on it without losing your Frightened bonus on other regions. This will be more useful for races that have large army sizes, or races that can point well but don't have great defenese.

Immortal (4) - Race tokens go back to hand when conquered - This power can be good with most races, but can be dominant when paired with certain races (Dwarves, Mummies, Spiderines, Lizardmen, Flames). The problem is you don't get any points for using Immortal. This is a much stronger ability when attached to a second race than a first, because you'll already have a decline race on the board who can score points. If you take Immortal with your first race, you're going to have a hard time reaching double digit scores if you can't get your hands on a good pointing Relic/Place. Beware picking Immortal if the Vampire power or Shiny Orb Relic are in play, because any tokens killed by these abilities will be lost permanently.

Magic (5) - Use a magic bag to duplicate a Relic in play - Magic has very good potential and can lead to some extremely strong setups. It is risky to choose this at the start of the game before you know what Relics will be in play, but it can pay off with some luck. The Relics in play will have a large effect on the strategy you'll need to employ to get the most out of the magic power. If there are no pointing Relics in play, you'll need to use attacking Relics to help grab any Places that will score you points. Magic works nicely when pointing Relics such as Froggy's Ring or the Scepter of Avarice are in play. If you can get your hands on one of these Relics and ALSO use your bag as a copy of it, you can set yourself up for some big points (i.e. using Froggy's Ring to steal twice from every player).

Martyr (4) - +1 VP from bank for every spot of yours that is conquered - An OK power that can situationally become pretty good. The problem with Martyr is you need to be attacked to gain any points from it. This is good in some ways because it keeps people from attacking you, but it can also be a problem if you're not scoring well from other sources. Still, Martyr can be a good source of "sneaky points" - points that might fly under the radar of other players so you don't appear as much of a threat.

Mining (4) / Mystic (4) - +1 VP for each Mine/Crystal region controlled - Both of these powers are practically identical, and both are very good and will come in handy often. These are some of the most reliable powers for earning points, so if paired with a good race and if there are enough regions of this type available to scoop up, these powers will be useful at any point of the game. Do keep in mind that Dwarves will also be looking for Mining regions and Will o' Wisps will be looking for Crystal regions, so you may have a fight on your hands if these races are in play, or will be coming out soon. On a similar note, Mystic Wisps and Mining Dwarves are very strong combinations.

Muddy (3) - +1 VP for each Mud region controlled; works in decline - Muddy is a great power for a first race if you plan to spread out quickly to go into decline. If you can grab a few mud regions on the first turn or two, you'll be well set up to score big in decline. Muddy is less desirable later in the game if you have a race you don't plan to go into decline with, since you only get 3 tokens for taking this power. Be very careful about taking Muddy if the Mudmen are coming into play, as you'll be contending over the same spots and with your diminished army size, you'll usually be at an immediate disadvantage in that battle. Similarly, Muddy Mudmen is a great combination if available.

Stone (4) - +1 VP for each Mountain region controlled - Same as Mining / Mystic, but for Stone regions. Going after the Stone regions changes the strategy slightly, as you'll have to spend more tokens to conquer these, but you'll be well defended. There are no other races or powers that benefit directly from Stone regions, so chances are smaller that you'll be contending with another race. Stone is good stuff for races that will eventually decline because your in-decline regions will be well protected by the mountain defense and are likely to stay on the board longer. On the other hand, you won't be able to spread out as quickly decline early in the game using Stone as a first race, so if I'm taking Stone early, I'll usually want to match it up with a mobile race with a lot of tokens which I don't mind sticking around a little longer, like Spiderines, Lizardmen, or Mudmen.

Quarreling (3) - +1 VP for each set of regions not connected to another set - Quarreling can be extremely powerful with the proper race combination, but the low number of tokens and difficulty of use makes its usefulness fairly situational. Quarreling Spiderines and Lizardmen are some of the most dominant combinations in the game, as they can set up the Quarreling bonus effortlessly. Other races will be harder to get a good setup, but can be greatly assisted by controlling the Flying Doormat, Pipes, or making smart use of the river to space out your regions. The small army size for Quarreling makes it a a much better ability for races that start with 6 or 7 tokens. A nice (very situational) Quarreling trick is to set up a first Reborn race and take a Quarreling race second so you can respawn your in-decline race with an instant 2 point region from the tray.

Reborn (5) - Replace a Reborn in-decline race token with an active race token from tray - Reborn may not seem great at first glance, but it has a tremendous amount of potential when used with your starting race. The most obvious benefit is to easily regenerate your next active race, which will essentially give you free tokens from the tray to boost your army's strength. But Reborn also comes with some powerful, less obvious side effects. For one, if you wisely set up your first Reborn race, you can earn great mobility with your next active race. For example, you can come in with your new race at one edge of the map but if you have a Reborn race token on the other side of the map, you suddenly have an active presence that covers a large area of the map. Another benefit is that, unlike with most races, any Relics/Places you discovered with your Reborn can easily be handed down to your next race. This can be useful if you uncover valuable Relics/Places that don't work in decline, like the Sceptre or the Ring. Last, but certainly not least, if you plan ahead, you can set up your next race to be in strong position to score a lot of points. For example, if you take a Reborn race to start the game and notice that there's a Mining race coming down the line, you can grab a bunch of mine regions and then attempt to take the Mining race as your second race, which basically gives your new race a bunch of free mines to score bonus points. Keep in mind that if you go this route, you will need to get in decline quick enough that your desired next race doesn't get snatched up by an opponent. If you're worried about someone snatching up your next planned race, it might be good to aim for something less desirable due to small army size, like a Muddy or Quarreling race. You'll instantly be able to boost your army to full size with Reborn, which nullifies that particular drawback.

Royal (5) - Receive an immunity token that stays on the board when race goes in-decline - Royal is generally a very strong power at any point in the game, though it can be slightly risky to take before you know where there are going to be any powerful pointing Relics/Places to control. Once you know that there is a good Relic or Place that you can lock down with your Royal race, this power becomes one of the best in the game. Some dominant setups for a Royal race include getting control of the Altar of Souls or Mine of the Lost Dwarf. These are very high pointing Places that also work in-decline so you can lock them up for most of the game, rewarding you with tons of points and keeping them away from opponents. Another nice setup for Royal is to pair it up with the Ghost of the Tomb Raider, which lets you lock up the Ghost and thus control two immunity spots. If you're lucky enough to grab the Ghost with the Royal Cultists, you can have 3 immune regions! The Royal power also handily comes with an army size of 5, which will give your race its max army size. The downside to Royal is if you may not point well if you can't get your hands on pointing Relics/Places.

Shield (3) - Receive a Shield token for every Mushroom Forest region controlled - Shield is an ability that I'll usually pass over since it doesn't score any points and it nets you a small army. Shields do work in decline, so it's not a bad choice for a starting race if you want to make sure your race sticks around for awhile after it goes in decline. Shield is also a strong ability for Mushrooms, even with the pitiful army size of 8, because you'll be able to score, defend, AND put yourself in position for a decent decline. One thing that really hurts the Shield power is that there are several ways to neutralize it. The Balrog and the Stinky Sock will run through Sheild regions as if they were empty. The Vampire ability and the Shiny Orb will also bypass shields on any regions that have only one active race token on it.

Thieving (4) - Steal 1 VP from opponents who are adjacent to your race tokens - Thieving is one of the top powers in the game at any point. Stealing points from other players is huge, as it effectively gives you a 2 point swing against any player that borders your race. Thieving is a great source of "sneaky points", as it can be difficult to measure the "swing" effect it has on point totals. Thieving also comes with a side effect of making other players try to stay away from you whenever possible. Being robbed more than other players is a good way to lose the game, so it becomes important to stay out of the way of Thieving races.

Tomb (5) - Keep ALL race tokens on the map when going in-decline and stack them to defend regions - Tomb is a very strong ability early in the game that becomes less useful as the game goes on. Keeping an in-decline race on the board is a key part of scoring well, and Tomb is one of the best ways to make sure your decline race stays in play to score points late into the game. Make sure you don't spread yourself too thin before you go in-decline - 5 well-defended Tomb in-decline regions are more valuable than 7 or 8 in-decline regions that are defended by 1 token. A good early move can be to spread out to 5 or 6 regions on turn 1 and then decline on turn 2. Beware of the Balrog if you have a Tomb race - you'll be an attractive target. The Stinky Sock can also cause problems, but you do get to redeploy your tokens (I think).

Vampire (5) - Replace an opponent's active token yours from the tray if opponent only has 1 token defending a region - Vampire can be good in the right situations, but it doesn't provide a lot of pointing value and can be completely useless if your opponents know and are able to defend all of their regions with 2 tokens. Vampire is often a very good counter to certain races that get easily spread thin, such as the Iron Dwarves. It can also be beneficial because it keeps your opponents in check by penalizing them for spreading out too much, and it can force them into declining earlier than they'd like.

Vanishing (5) - When Vanishing race goes in-decine, remove all tokens from the board and earn 2 points instead of 1 - This is easily the worst power in the game and almost completely useless in my opinion. Taking a Vanishing race early in the game can be devastating, because even though you score double points, you no longer collect points from that race in future rounds. The only time Vanishing really works out at all is if you take it in the last couple of turns of the game and use it on the final turn. Even then, this only works out occasionally when you don't have much of a decline race presence at the time AND don't benefit enough from taking a turn in the final round. There is also a potential use for Vanishing in the first round if it is paired with the Ogres. They can spread out fully to 10 regions in round 1 and take a 20 point decline in the second round, but it is debatable if those 10 extra points are worth losing the points from in-decline Ogres on future turns. You're also putting an early target on yourself by scoring 30 points in two rounds.

Vengeful (4) - If an opponent attacks ANY of your races, you can conquer ANY of their races at -1 on your next turn - Vengeful isn't a great power at the start of the game, but it has pretty good value once there are some in-decline races on the board. Keeping decline races on the board is so important to scoring points later in the game, and as a result, using a Vengeful race is a big disincentive for opponents to attack either of your races. If an opponent attacks you, you're basically able to conquer their in-decline regions as if it were empty (with the exception Tomb or Shield), which is awesome. The downside to Vengeful is that it doesn't score any points directly, so you have to consider if the points you're saving by keeping enemies off you is worth the points you're giving up by not taking another ability.

Wise (4) - Score +2 VPs when your Wise race has in-decline tokens on the board - Wise is one of the best abilities to take at the start of the game because it ensures that your decline race will score well for as long as they are on the board. It's a good idea to keep your Wise race well-defended before going in-decline to keep these valuable points coming for as long as possible. I like to grab a couple of mountain regions with my Wise race for the defense bonus, as these spots are much less attractive for opponents to take. Another good tactic is to take a Vengeful race after going in-decline to keep opponents from targeting you. Wise Liches are a very dominant combination to start with because once in-decline, opponents will either have to pay you VPs and go out of their way to kill each Lich on the board, or you'll be getting a nice +2 bonus for a long time.

[Mis à jour le: Wed, 25 July 2012 07:47]

      
delirium_trigger
Junior Member

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July 2012
Re:Small World Underground - Strategy Guide and Discussion Wed, 25 July 2012 04:10
RELICS AND PLACES
----------------

Still working on this section
      
delirium_trigger
Junior Member

Messages: 5
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July 2012
Re:Small World Underground - Strategy Guide and Discussion Wed, 25 July 2012 07:19
STRONG COMBINATIONS AND TACTICS
------------------------------------

Still working on this section.

[Mis à jour le: Wed, 25 July 2012 07:19]

      
rasmussen81
DoW Content Provider
Designer's Oath

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Re:Small World Underground - Strategy Guide and Discussion Wed, 25 July 2012 08:03
Wow!! Smile When you said that you had a 'good chunk of stuff written' you weren't kidding!! Laughing

It looks like solid information that I look forward to reading through more thoroughly when I have time. Thanks for being willing to come on the forums and share your knowledge. Cool
      
Jack Spirio
Junior Member
Entraînement au combat niveau avancé

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November 2006
Re:Small World Underground - Strategy Guide and Discussion Tue, 31 July 2012 15:24
Quote:


The biggest drawback is that your mobility will suffer because you lose that bonus if you cross the river or use the Flying Doormat or Pipes to expand. This is a good power for most races, but terrible for Lizardmen and Spiderines.


Pipes and Spiderines work!
      
philippos42
Junior Member

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January 2014
Re:Small World Underground - Strategy Guide and Discussion Fri, 31 January 2014 00:07
I believe I have seen someone take Vanishing with his second race, Vanish two races, take a third race, and still win. But I agree it's a lousy ability.

Immortal, at 4 bonus tokens, seems overpowered to me. An Immortal race can play aggressively and knock out other players region by region while being immune to that sort of play itself.
      
Leeroy1
Junior Member
Cadet

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August 2012
Re:Small World Underground - Strategy Guide and Discussion Fri, 31 January 2014 02:08
If I had access to Underground, I sure would love this. Great work there! Laughing
      
masterdruid817
Member

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October 2013
Re:Small World Underground - Strategy Guide and Discussion Fri, 31 January 2014 14:52
philippos42 wrote on Thu, 30 January 2014 18:07

I believe I have seen someone take Vanishing with his second race, Vanish two races, take a third race, and still win. But I agree it's a lousy ability.

Immortal, at 4 bonus tokens, seems overpowered to me. An Immortal race can play aggressively and knock out other players region by region while being immune to that sort of play itself.

Um... why is it immortal is said to be overpowered, but elves aren't? They have the EXACT SAME POWER, and elves have 6, which is equivalent to a 5 power. Which makes elves MORE powerful than immortal.
      
Proto Persona
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KS Backer - Skeleton

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May 2013
Re:Small World Underground - Strategy Guide and Discussion Sat, 01 February 2014 07:00
masterdruid817 wrote on Fri, 31 January 2014 07:52

philippos42 wrote on Thu, 30 January 2014 18:07

I believe I have seen someone take Vanishing with his second race, Vanish two races, take a third race, and still win. But I agree it's a lousy ability.

Immortal, at 4 bonus tokens, seems overpowered to me. An Immortal race can play aggressively and knock out other players region by region while being immune to that sort of play itself.

Um... why is it immortal is said to be overpowered, but elves aren't? They have the EXACT SAME POWER, and elves have 6, which is equivalent to a 5 power. Which makes elves MORE powerful than immortal.

Probably because elves cap out at 11. Meanwhile Immortal can go on something like ratmen where a MUCH larger token count can bring out the worst in the power.
      
masterdruid817
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October 2013
Re:Small World Underground - Strategy Guide and Discussion Sun, 02 February 2014 16:46
Proto Persona wrote on Sat, 01 February 2014 01:00

masterdruid817 wrote on Fri, 31 January 2014 07:52

philippos42 wrote on Thu, 30 January 2014 18:07

I believe I have seen someone take Vanishing with his second race, Vanish two races, take a third race, and still win. But I agree it's a lousy ability.

Immortal, at 4 bonus tokens, seems overpowered to me. An Immortal race can play aggressively and knock out other players region by region while being immune to that sort of play itself.

Um... why is it immortal is said to be overpowered, but elves aren't? They have the EXACT SAME POWER, and elves have 6, which is equivalent to a 5 power. Which makes elves MORE powerful than immortal.

Probably because elves cap out at 11. Meanwhile Immortal can go on something like ratmen where a MUCH larger token count can bring out the worst in the power.

Good point, but we also have hordes of elves... I shudder just thinking about it.
      
DAC cazaron
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Re:Small World Underground - Strategy Guide and Discussion Sun, 02 February 2014 21:04
See, the thing about elves (and hordes-of, as it were) is that it has a possible net gain of 11, and that's it, without the requirement for specific modifiers.
Elves are great at running people off the board, but you don't have a good net gain of coins per turn.

In order to get a decent net gain, you need something like forest, merchant, pillaging in order to actually get more coins than 1 per region. It takes quite a while to actually have your elves in 11 regions, so you're sitting on 4, 6, 8, 11ish coins per turn, unless you have a coin-happy modifier, for the 'life' of your elves.

Of course, if you're picking up the elves to punish other players and force them to decline, then the 'high-scoring' nature of other races isn't as important as the 'immortality' of the elves.

TL;DR - are they really overpowered?
      
Proto Persona
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Re:Small World Underground - Strategy Guide and Discussion Mon, 03 February 2014 02:18
Probably not overpowered, but elves are definitely powerful compared to many of the races in SW. I think immortal + any conquering race (ogres, gypsies, orcs, iron dwarves, amazons come to mind) is what makes the power scarier than the elf race.
      
DAC cazaron
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Re:Small World Underground - Strategy Guide and Discussion Mon, 03 February 2014 04:28
Proto Persona wrote on Sun, 02 February 2014 20:18

Probably not overpowered, but elves are definitely powerful compared to many of the races in SW. I think immortal + any conquering race (ogres, gypsies, orcs, iron dwarves, amazons come to mind) is what makes the power scarier than the elf race.

I agree with this.
      
Zachtheawesome
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Re:Small World Underground - Strategy Guide and Discussion Sat, 16 August 2014 04:12
Great job! Awesome guide!
      
masterdruid817
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Re:Small World Underground - Strategy Guide and Discussion Wed, 27 August 2014 14:27
Proto Persona wrote on Sun, 02 February 2014 20:18

Probably not overpowered, but elves are definitely powerful compared to many of the races in SW. I think immortal + any conquering race (ogres, gypsies, orcs, iron dwarves, amazons come to mind) is what makes the power scarier than the elf race.

Commando elves, berserk elves, ransacking elves, and pillaging elves. And... dun dun DUN... MARAUDING ELVES.
      
    
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