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  What, no minefields? Mon, 04 August 2014 17:15
Has anybody else noticed the lack of minefields in the D-Day landings maps? Not that I am complaining, I have played four of the maps so far, and like them greatly. But reading D-Day by Stephen Ambrose, and Band of Brothers, and seeing several documentaries on D-Day, I know they sent in Engineers to deal with the mines. So, I was surprised when I finally got my D-Day landings and unfolded the maps and saw, no minefields. Of course, I know we could home rule this and put them out. I don't know if I will do that in future games, or not.
What do you think?
      
clexton27
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Re:What, no minefields? Mon, 04 August 2014 21:43
I think you make a very good point. If there are no minefields, the only Hobart Funnies you need is the "Bobbin". And if it seems that the Allies are running away with all the victories, it might be a good house rule to throw in a few minefields.

[Mis à jour le: Mon, 04 August 2014 22:25]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:What, no minefields? Mon, 04 August 2014 22:34
The lack of Minefields was simply a design choice by Richard Borg. The thing is, he has to walk a fine line between playability and historical accuracy. If it was totally historical, there would be tons of minefields around, flooded fields in a bunch of areas, more machine guns, and even more units on both sides.

As it is, the scenarios are great for advanced players and new players alike; there are enough rules and units to make it exciting but not so many things that it overwhelms players.

Adding mines is a fine idea for a house rule, though!
      
Quit2
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Re:What, no minefields? Mon, 04 August 2014 23:59
I already made that remark.

Besides your remarks about it, it would also give another option for the hobart's funnies.
In the same idea: a trench here and there behind the beach would have been nice too. Again, another option for the funnies.

Since Terrain Pack is mandatory to play this, I really see no reason not to have included them, except for not adding yet another rule to the game. But it's not like minefields are so complex.

Anyway, the design choice was made to not use minefields. This way, there is no hinder to movement of Axis forces behind the beaches. And since most battles are over as soon as the beaches are taken, minefields inland might not have much use.
      
trumpetman52
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Re:What, no minefields? Tue, 05 August 2014 03:14
i am currently reading DDAY by Stephen Ambrose and the further i get into the book the more i realize that D-day was basically one big slaughterhouse. It's a miracle that we held the beach at all on Omaha. transports blowing up with all of the men and supplies on board. men being cut down on the beach by the dozens. landing in the wrong places. it almost makes me sick reading the book. i honestly have no idea at all how we ever took the beaches, not to mention the total confusion of the airborne landings.
honestly it is quite depressing
trumpetman52
      
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Re:What, no minefields? Tue, 05 August 2014 04:47
"It is well that war is so terrible - otherwise we would grow too fond of it. "


Robert E. Lee at Fredericksburg
      
General Slim
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Re:What, no minefields? Tue, 05 August 2014 14:11
trumpetman52 wrote on Tue, 05 August 2014 02:14

i am currently reading DDAY by Stephen Ambrose and the further i get into the book the more i realize that D-day was basically one big slaughterhouse. It's a miracle that we held the beach at all on Omaha. transports blowing up with all of the men and supplies on board. men being cut down on the beach by the dozens. landing in the wrong places. it almost makes me sick reading the book. i honestly have no idea at all how we ever took the beaches, not to mention the total confusion of the airborne landings.
honestly it is quite depressing
trumpetman52


This is probably one of the best history books I've read, and I've read quite a few! It makes the whole thing come alive for the reader so that you can almost imagine yourself on the beaches - and as you say it is horrific.
      
LooneyLlama
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Re:What, no minefields? Tue, 05 August 2014 17:04
Speaking of minefields, I have made an Overlord scenario where I didn't want to impede the movement of German units. So what I came up with was after a certain turn or if an objective was captured by the Allies, on the next turn the Axis overall commander can place 3 minefield tokens anywhere on an open or road hex. This enabled the German commander to strategically place minefields where an Allied breakthrough was imminent. Since Hobart's Funnies units are available as reinforcements in this scenario, it gives the Allied commander the option to counteract his opponent. It really turned out as an exciting option when played.
      
5 star general
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Re:What, no minefields? Wed, 06 August 2014 01:10
Does the German commander pick and place the 3 mines with out knowing the hit value of each? I would try to put the higher value where there would be a possible break through.
      
LooneyLlama
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Re:What, no minefields? Wed, 06 August 2014 18:02
5 Star,

No, the German commander chose 3 mines randomly. I put all my mines from all expansions in one sandwich bag. He then draws out 3. Just the placement of mines can intimidate the opponent to avoid them. I like the idea of randomness to keep the game exciting. Who knows what you'll come across if you are bold enough to enter!

Eric
      
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Re:What, no minefields? Wed, 06 August 2014 23:57
LooneyLlama wrote on Wed, 06 August 2014 12:02

5 Star,

No, the German commander chose 3 mines randomly. Eric


Which conforms to how mines are placed as per the rules in standard scenario setups. I agree with this method.
      
Achtung Panzer
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Re:What, no minefields? Tue, 12 August 2014 10:11
rasmussen81 wrote on Mon, 04 August 2014 21:34

The lack of Minefields was simply a design choice by Richard Borg. The thing is, he has to walk a fine line between playability and historical accuracy. If it was totally historical, there would be tons of minefields around, flooded fields in a bunch of areas, more machine guns, and even more units on both sides.



And of course Minefields may have required the introduction of Engineer units, also missing from the set up. I also find the lack of British Mobile Artillery, able to fire from landing craft, surprising too. But I see the point about 'playability'.

One thing I've found is that the 'feel' of the landings is more akin to Pacific landings, with desperate (suicide?) moves by single Axis units to advance and prevent Beach control. My reading od D-Day suggests a more 'defence in depth' option which I thought would be supported by the large battle maps and reinforcement rolls.
      
Achtung Panzer
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Re:What, no minefields? Tue, 12 August 2014 10:12
trumpetman52 wrote on Tue, 05 August 2014 02:14

i am currently reading DDAY by Stephen Ambrose and the further i get into the book the more i realize that D-day was basically one big slaughterhouse. It's a miracle that we held the beach at all on Omaha. transports blowing up with all of the men and supplies on board. men being cut down on the beach by the dozens. landing in the wrong places. it almost makes me sick reading the book. i honestly have no idea at all how we ever took the beaches, not to mention the total confusion of the airborne landings.
honestly it is quite depressing
trumpetman52


But Omaha apart, the other beach landings produced amazingly light Allied casualities - far less than anticipated by the Allied commanders.
      
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Re:What, no minefields? Tue, 12 August 2014 14:35
Achtung Panzer wrote on Tue, 12 August 2014 04:11

rasmussen81 wrote on Mon, 04 August 2014 21:34

The lack of Minefields was simply a design choice by Richard Borg. The thing is, he has to walk a fine line between playability and historical accuracy. If it was totally historical, there would be tons of minefields around, flooded fields in a bunch of areas, more machine guns, and even more units on both sides.



I also find the lack of British Mobile Artillery, able to fire from landing craft, surprising too.


One wonders how effective such fire could be when:

1) firing from a very unstable platform
2) lack of an advanced fire control system
3) probably no spotting
4) from what was light arty against the those beach defenses.


One thinks it may have been more of a "moral booster" than anything else.
      
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Re:What, no minefields? Tue, 12 August 2014 14:55
Achtung Panzer wrote on Tue, 12 August 2014 04:12

trumpetman52 wrote on Tue, 05 August 2014 02:14

i am currently reading DDAY by Stephen Ambrose and the further i get into the book the more i realize that D-day was basically one big slaughterhouse. It's a miracle that we held the beach at all on Omaha. transports blowing up with all of the men and supplies on board. men being cut down on the beach by the dozens. landing in the wrong places. it almost makes me sick reading the book. i honestly have no idea at all how we ever took the beaches, not to mention the total confusion of the airborne landings.
honestly it is quite depressing
trumpetman52


But Omaha apart, the other beach landings produced amazingly light Allied casualities - far less than anticipated by the Allied commanders.



The Allies had planned well but the so called "Atlantic Wall" had a lot of holes. To properly man all the defenses (including adequate reserves) along the entire coast would have probably required 3 to 5 times as many divisions as were in place. The Germans just did not have the manpower to do so. Many of the formations they did have were 2nd rate at best. Add in the huge factor of Allied air over the battle field where the Luftwaffe did not really exist (really a lot of time wasted painting all those white strips on our airplanes for D-Day) and it is almost a slam dunk. The only thing that could have hurt us badly was the weather. This could have prevented supplies coming in to the beaches in the quantity needed.

The only other chance for the Germans was if 1)if they realized the D-Day landings were the main invasion and 2) had gambled and stripped troops from other beach defenses and perhaps launched offensives before the Allies got too strong in the beach areas.

Of course, timely release of the panzers reserves would have helped too.

[Mis à jour le: Tue, 12 August 2014 14:58]

      
    
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