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Drax Kramer
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August 2005
Barbarossa Grand Campaign Victory Roll Tue, 05 August 2014 23:55
Before the third scenario of the central sector of the Grand Barbarossa Campaign, German player rolled five dice in his victory events roll. He rolled three stars so Soviet player was left with only one card. According to the special rule, Soviet player put his remaining card under the Commisair Token and immediatelly played it (since Soviets play first).

However, the card was the Counterattack. So what was Soviet player about to do? We returned the card back to the deck, shuffled it and let the Soviet player draw again.
      
Aussie_Digger
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Re:Barbarossa Grand Campaign Victory Roll Wed, 06 August 2014 01:45
I guess, following the letter of the law (and the special situation in the VE table) the Russian player would have to place that card under the chip which would result in passing his turn in effect. (I guess the roll of all those stars and only having that card left could be seen as a mass break down in communications and confusion on the front lines)

But hey allowing the Russian player to re draw a replacement card is probably the friendly thing to do.
      
Sgt Storm
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Re:Barbarossa Grand Campaign Victory Roll Wed, 06 August 2014 04:18
A simple reading of the rules provides the answer on page seven. To paraphrase, place the one card under commissar chip, implying you play that card your first turn, and draw two cards after your turn.

Doesn't matter what card it is, play it. No passing of turn is necessary. You are reading things into the rules that aren't there.
      
Antoi
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Re:Barbarossa Grand Campaign Victory Roll Wed, 06 August 2014 10:04
I thought the Russian player has to put a card under his chip before he get another card. Thats why the first turn of the Russian players is different from the rest of the game where you put a card under the chip and then play the One that was under it.
      
Aussie_Digger
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Re:Barbarossa Grand Campaign Victory Roll Wed, 06 August 2014 13:40
Sgt Storm wrote on Wed, 06 August 2014 11:48

No passing of turn is necessary. You are reading things into the rules that aren't there.


When I said passing i meant that it would be like passing as he would be playing a useless card (counter attack). So he would play the card then pretty much do nothing then re draw
      
Antoi
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Re:Barbarossa Grand Campaign Victory Roll Wed, 06 August 2014 17:33
Sorry, misread the first post... Embarassed
So forget my previous answer.

I agree with Sgt storm. Just follow the rules. If you play a card which is useless....... Too bad Rolling Eyes
But then you get a new problem. Because you had just one card and you already played it you cannot put a new card under the chip (because of my previous post)

[Mis à jour le: Wed, 06 August 2014 19:41]

      
Sgt Storm
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Re:Barbarossa Grand Campaign Victory Roll Wed, 06 August 2014 18:05
I agree. If Russian player has the first turn, play the single card no matter what it is. If counter attack, then tough luck. Then draw two cards and put one under the chip before your opponent's turn.

I'd do the same even if its an Ambush card. In this case you have to discard. You essentially lose your first turn.

However, this question, particularly the Ambush card scenario, might be something to submit for clarification and include in the FAQ.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Barbarossa Grand Campaign Victory Roll Wed, 06 August 2014 18:24
Sgt Storm wrote on Wed, 06 August 2014 09:05

I agree. If Russian player has the first turn, play the single card no matter what it is. If counter attack, then tough luck. Then draw two cards and put one under the chip before your opponent's turn.

I'd do the same even if its an Ambush card. In this case you have to discard. You essentially lose your first turn.

However, this question, particularly the Ambush card scenario, might be something to submit for clarification and include in the FAQ.



I don't think there's anything that needs clarification with the FAQ here. It's pretty straight forward...just not a fun way to start a battle.

But the rule itself doesn't need any answer; you put your card under the token. If it's a card that you can't do anything with, you play the card, order no units, draw your new cards, and pick one to place under the token again.
      
Antoi
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Re:Barbarossa Grand Campaign Victory Roll Wed, 06 August 2014 19:44
rasmussen81 wrote on Wed, 06 August 2014 18:24



But the rule itself doesn't need any answer; you put your card under the token. If it's a card that you can't do anything with, you play the card, order no units, draw your new cards, and pick one to place under the token again.


But that's the problem. According to the rules, you have to put a card beneath your chip before you take another card (or cards in this situation)
      
Sgt Storm
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Re:Barbarossa Grand Campaign Victory Roll Thu, 07 August 2014 07:38
Yeah, but you have only one card. So you play it because you have no choice and there's nothing left to put under the chip. Or if it makes you feel better put it under the chip then immediately play it.

Be flexible. It's not going to matter much anyway.

The only alternative to this would be not taking your turn and leaving the card under the chip to play next turn. But this is not a good idea for this reason: if your single card is Ambush you'll end up skipping the first turn with Ambush under the chip then have to discard Ambush on your second turn.

I suppose you'll say that discarding Ambush or Counter attack if drawn the first turn is also an alternative, but that is not in keeping with the rules. That is, the rules mention nothing about redrawing under these circumstances.

So you are left with one way to play this that makes sense in all situations and is pretty much in keeping with the rules. That is playing your only card the first turn regardless of card type and redrawing two at the end of the turn. Put one under the chip and you are back on track with not much fuss.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Barbarossa Grand Campaign Victory Roll Thu, 07 August 2014 09:25
Sgt Storm has the right idea. This is such an outside case that it hasn't happened to anyone else we know of since the battle became available (in 2009).

There really aren't a lot of options with this situation. I don't have the book in front of me, but if the player doesn't have an option about which card to keep, he would have to play Counter Attack for his first turn. He can't skip (you can never skip your turn in Memoir '44) and he would simply play the card without doing anything.

When he draws his next two cards, he picks one and plays it under the Commissar Chip. The game then continues like normal.

The issue with putting things like this into the FAQ is that it's such a unique situation. It's impossible to cover every situation that ever comes up and the FAQ is already huge. Those questions we put in the FAQ try to make the game more clear, but the goal is not to eliminate the need for logic when playing the game.
      
Drax Kramer
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Re:Barbarossa Grand Campaign Victory Roll Thu, 07 August 2014 11:11
Thank you guys, you clarified the situation. It was indeed a rare case.
      
clexton27
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Re:Barbarossa Grand Campaign Victory Roll Thu, 07 August 2014 13:12
Drax Kramer wrote on Thu, 07 August 2014 05:11

Thank you guys, you clarified the situation. It was indeed a rare case.

This is a unique and unpleasant situation for the Russian player. However, one needs to consider the cause of this situation. The cause is the large number of victory dice which resulted in STAR rolls. This could only come about because the Russians have consistently lost several battles. In history a consistent loss could lead to a collapse of morale, with further losses or troops abandoning the front or failing to fight. This is replicated in the paralysis of effort the Russian player is now experiencing. So you could have a legitimate argument in saying that the consequences of continued losses is not only justified but logical from a historical context. So I say embrace the frustration and accept the experience as a way of understanding the situation from a historical perspective.
Part of the merit to the game for me is to try to think about what the battle experience was like for those that endured it, and so even this unique card situation is an opportunity for learning.

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 07 August 2014 13:51]

      
    
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