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Aussie_Digger
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prokhorovka overlord Sun, 07 July 2013 18:25
Im looking at playing this at my gaming groups next session. I was thinking of changing a few things such as adding Tigers into the game instead of the elite tank units for the germans. Though i think replacing all the elites with tigers may overpower the germans a bit. Instead I was thinking of giving each General 1 tiger for their flank and changing the other elites to normal tank units. Do you guys think this would keep the balance of the scenario in place?

Also I was thinking that the town of Prokhorovka should be worth something too, maybe control of the town group to be worth 1 medal (therefor the Russians start with a 1 medal head start)

Just would like to get your thoughts or ideas if others have tried anything similar.
      
sam1812
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Re:prokhorovka overlord Sun, 07 July 2013 20:07
The scenario in its current form is closely balanced. Past AARs have been 56%-44% in favor of the Germans (in exactly 100 reports, as of this writing). Personally, I wouldn't change it.

However, if you're specifically looking to add some of the newer units, when you add Tigers for the Germans, you might even things out a little by adding some SWAs for the Russians.
      
Antoi
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Re:prokhorovka overlord Mon, 08 July 2013 10:23
I'm gonna play the same Overlord Saturday during a teamplay event.

Players can collect point during 2 standard scenario's which the can spend to buy things before the overlord.

One of the options is to switch a special tankunit for a tigertank.
I'm not quite sure yet what the russians get but I was thinking of:

Camouflage
SWA
Minefields
Sandbags
tank destroyers
Supply trucks

Of course, Historical speaking this was a head on meting between two armies so sandbags en minefields are not that realistic.

I don't know when you are playing, but I try to let you know how things went next weekend. Maybe it will help Smile
      
Aussie_Digger
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Re:prokhorovka overlord Thu, 11 July 2013 10:34
Sounds interesting, will be in a couple of weeks.

I was just thinking that maybe for the russians you could purchase a tank unit that could come onto the board using the armour breakthrough rule (actions 22)

another thing that comes to mind is buying an air power card.

anyway just a few suggetions, like to hear how it gose

which sceanrios will you be playing before the overlord (Kursk ones?)
      
Antoi
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Re:prokhorovka overlord Tue, 16 July 2013 19:58
We had our overlords last Saturday.
Two teams played prokhorovka en in both cases the German won 12-7 Rolling Eyes
If you look at my userpage, you can see what options both teams had (look at memoir playday for personal score form).

In one case, the German bought Two tigers, but these were quite early destroyed.

      
Aussie_Digger
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Re:prokhorovka overlord Wed, 17 July 2013 07:02
Sounds interesting, I have been thinking of what to do with this scenario some more as we will be playing this on the 27th.

Thinking of giving the Germans a Tiger for each FG and then making the rest of the elite tank units regular.

Then allowing the Russians to make a reserve roll (roll 2 dice) for each FG (they all get one reserve token each)

for example

STAR + STAR, choice of resolving the air power card or gaining access to the urban combat card deck (ill remove cards that wont work)

InF , call up an infantry unit
INF + STAR Infantry unit with anti tank SWA
ARM, call up a tank unit
ARM + STAR, Elite tank unit
FLG + STAR, Resolve the dig in card

So im hoping this will help balance out The tigers (though im not too sure if 3 tigers will be enough)
      
Antoi
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Re:prokhorovka overlord Wed, 17 July 2013 21:22
The Russian has a chance he will receive nothing, or almost nothing. While the German always has a tiger tank. Right?

Giving the Russian players supllytrucks makes sure he can stay in the fight with enough firepower( without over doing it) and avoid giving the Germans an easy medal.
Maybe that will balance the game a bit.

Besides that, I think tiger tanks are a little bit overrated Very Happy
      
Aussie_Digger
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Re:prokhorovka overlord Thu, 18 July 2013 02:47
My plan was to allow each FG to to make a reserve roll when ever they receive a section card (costs 1 order to attempt a reseve roll).

So unlike the normal reserve rolls where it is conducted before play begins, you can attemp to bring on something during the game. (but each FG only has one reserve token so they have to decide if what they rolled is worth it, and they can ignore a roll and try again the next time they receive a section card)

Yea i have seen tigers become medals pretty cheaply, but i must say I have seen them cause alot of trouble for the enemy more often.

My aim is to just spice up the scenario a bit, as our group is use to playing with special rules (have played all the overlord battle maps)
      
Antoi
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Re:prokhorovka overlord Thu, 18 July 2013 08:35
It's a good idea, and gives a little tension (you never now what you throw).

Hopefully the russian player doesn't throw two flags Very Happy
      
Aussie_Digger
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Re:prokhorovka overlord Fri, 19 July 2013 04:59
Antoi wrote on Thu, 18 July 2013 16:05

It's a good idea, and gives a little tension (you never now what you throw).

Hopefully the russian player doesn't throw two flags Very Happy


In that case he will just have to wait till the next time he is given a section card and try again.

Here are the rules for the reserve roll I have made to go with it. (remembering that each FG only gets one reserve token)

• Soviet Field Generals can attempt a reserve roll when receiving a section card.
• Reserve roll cost 1 order from section card to attempt.
• Roll 2 dice and consult the table below.
• Pay 1 reserve token to accept roll.
• Units then enter from the FG’s base line in section card was played on.


STAR + STAR Resolve air power card or gain access to combat card deck.

INF Deploy Infantry unit

TANK Deploy Armour unit

INF + STAR Deploy Infantry unit with Anti-tank SWA

TANK + STAR Deploy Elite Armour unit

FLAG + STAR Resolve Dig in card

      
Aussie_Digger
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Re:prokhorovka overlord Sun, 28 July 2013 04:52
Just played our overlord of this last night. Went well, ended up replacing all the elite german tank units with Tigers and gave the Soviets the resever roll as listed on the above post.

The Tigers lived up to their reputation and only 1 was eliminated in the whole game (a contrast to our game of tigers in the snow where 5 tigers were lost on the first attack on them). Though they were very ineffective to start with as all the russians went into cover. Only when the russian commander thought he had a good hand of cards to make a consentrated assualt did they come out to play.

Was going well for the russians, but the germans managed to tempt the russians into some kill zones, and the CiC was able to play some good cards to support his FG's attacks.

Only one Russian FG used the reserve roll and got 2 stars and decided to call in air support (air power card) which disrupted the german plans a little, but they were able to re group.

was very close until the end where the germans picked up 3 medals to take the win.

Germans 12 - Russians 8

Was a good game I didnt feel the tigers overpowered things and the Russian reserve roll helps the Russians with something a little extra (may have paid off if the other 2 FG's used it)

In the end I felt the win came down to how the CiC's employed their forces. As the Russians did end up over extending themselves a bit (though they did have some massive attacks that didnt go to plan as theu would have hoped)

The Germans were always good at counter attacks.
      
Antoi
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Re:prokhorovka overlord Sun, 28 July 2013 13:21
Sounds like a great game you had Smile
Also good to read you idea worked out nicely and the main effort came from the players and not to overpowered forces.

Hope to hear from you again when you play a game with differents setup/ideas Smile
      
tank commander
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Re:prokhorovka overlord Tue, 10 September 2013 01:49
I tried this with Tigers too. But I only replaced one Elite Panzer unit per section so as each German FG commanded one of these units.

Played in a dank, dark basement of a local game shop....

Game 1

Germans:
CinC & CFG - Roger / RFG - Johnnie / LFG - Mike (Roger's son)

Russians:
CinC & LFG - John (that be me) / L & C FGs - Gary

Thanks to DHQs played in the center and German left, the panzers drove forward and caused havoc in the center and made gains on their left. The Russians made the first kills as one panzer unit went up in flames on both the Russian left and right (2-0 Russians).

The Germans recovered from poor rolling on their left and eliminated two Russian tanks there.

With the score at 4 to 2 in the Russian's favor the German armor attacked across the board and killed a tank in each sector. But the Russians made three kills of their own to make it a 7 to 5 game.

But in spite of this the Russians seemed to be hanging on by their fingernails across the board. All that was needed was a good German turn and things would flip around in a hurry. All three Tigers were still operating and the Germans had made deep drives towards the Russian baseline. Turn 6 saw a 2 to 1 trade in armor in the German favor and a 8 to 7 Russian lead.

But at least the German left was in shambles having lost two panzers and two infantry. I had tried to take out the Tiger but after cutting it off failed at this. When my armor shifted their atttacks to the regular panzers and infantry I gained the upper hand here.

On the last German turn only 2 infantry and 2 panzers were ordered and so little was gained. The Germans had fueled their left early on with three straight DHQs but their dice were off and so what should have been a crushing attack only produced three kills.

We were then able to finish off some weak center panzers with FIREFIGHT and nail a panzer on the left and right to win out.

The Tigers survived all attempts to knock them out but the one on the German right never moved. We think it broke down just before the battle began - lol.

Game 2

I gave Roger the choice of switching sides but he said he was stubborn and wished to try the Germans again, so....

Germans:
CinC , CFG & LFG - Roger / RFG - Gary

Russians:
CinC & CFG - John (that be me) / LFG - Johnnie / RFG - Hans

The Germans pushed in all sectors and soon had the Russians in trouble. Three Russian tank units in the center and on the right were killed off. In two turns, 23 hits were scored on the Russian armor and resulted in a 7 to 4 German lead.

Facing this situation I played TFH but only got to order 5 units total across the board and only 1 tank per flank. We made the best of that poor rolling by taking out three panzers and gaining an 8 to 7 lead. The Germans struck back with an ARMOR ASSAULT on their right which scored two kills and could have been worse. Our COUNTER-ATTACK on the ARMOR ASSAULT did poorly but a Center BEL killed a 2 fig panzer and got an infantry out of the open and into cover. We also killed a panzer on our right and tied the game at 10.

A German TFH ordered 8 units including 4 tanks but the Germans could only score one kill when they blast a tank on our left.

A Russian left ARMOR ASSAULT fails to kill a 2 fig panzer with two 4d attacks. A right BEL eliminates a 1 fig panzer on our right. Now it is up to me and I hope to flush a 4 fig infantry out of a woods hex so that my last center tank (down to 1 fig) can attack it in the open. An infantry fires 1d and hits. Then my arty fires 2 dice and rolls two grenades. Now it comes down to a 1d attack against the now 1 fig infantry and I hit it and the Russians win again! Wow - what a game!!

Once again tries were made on the Tigers but several reroll hits failed to get that grenade.

      
Achtung Panzer
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Re:prokhorovka overlord Tue, 10 September 2013 08:57
Aussie_Digger wrote on Fri, 19 July 2013 03:59

Antoi wrote on Thu, 18 July 2013 16:05

It's a good idea, and gives a little tension (you never now what you throw).

Hopefully the russian player doesn't throw two flags Very Happy


In that case he will just have to wait till the next time he is given a section card and try again.

Here are the rules for the reserve roll I have made to go with it. (remembering that each FG only gets one reserve token)

• Soviet Field Generals can attempt a reserve roll when receiving a section card.
• Reserve roll cost 1 order from section card to attempt.
• Roll 2 dice and consult the table below.
• Pay 1 reserve token to accept roll.
• Units then enter from the FG’s base line in section card was played on.


STAR + STAR Resolve air power card or gain access to combat card deck.

INF Deploy Infantry unit

TANK Deploy Armour unit

INF + STAR Deploy Infantry unit with Anti-tank SWA

TANK + STAR Deploy Elite Armour unit

FLAG + STAR Resolve Dig in card



I like this idea a lot. Thanks for sharing!
      
Aussie_Digger
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Re:prokhorovka overlord Tue, 10 September 2013 09:29
Achtung Panzer wrote on Tue, 10 September 2013 16:27

Aussie_Digger wrote on Fri, 19 July 2013 03:59

Antoi wrote on Thu, 18 July 2013 16:05

It's a good idea, and gives a little tension (you never now what you throw).

Hopefully the russian player doesn't throw two flags Very Happy


In that case he will just have to wait till the next time he is given a section card and try again.

Here are the rules for the reserve roll I have made to go with it. (remembering that each FG only gets one reserve token)

• Soviet Field Generals can attempt a reserve roll when receiving a section card.
• Reserve roll cost 1 order from section card to attempt.
• Roll 2 dice and consult the table below.
• Pay 1 reserve token to accept roll.
• Units then enter from the FG’s base line in section card was played on.


STAR + STAR Resolve air power card or gain access to combat card deck.

INF Deploy Infantry unit

TANK Deploy Armour unit

INF + STAR Deploy Infantry unit with Anti-tank SWA

TANK + STAR Deploy Elite Armour unit

FLAG + STAR Resolve Dig in card



I like this idea a lot. Thanks for sharing!


No problem, it worked well in the game we played (although the Russians did't make full use of it at the time) It was my attempt to balance the scenario out when i gave the Germans 6 Tigers to replace the elite tank units.
      
    
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