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Qorlas
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World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Fri, 13 September 2013 11:06
I declare League season 13 and Euroleague season 2 concluded!

Ruling will follow soon on this thread.
      
Qorlas
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Fri, 13 September 2013 11:15
Games to be ruled:

League

Division B:

DrakeStorm - dea1
DrakeStorm - Olle Boll
DrakeStorm - Maskaride

if there are attempted scheduling or missed scheduling in the past... let me know in the next 4 hours!


Division D:

Shamogi - SuperPello 0 - 4


EuroLeague

Division A:

belelule - Qorlas 0 - 0

missed appointment by Belelule in August, no time to play by Qorlas this week.

Division D:

Vercingetorix did not play.

Waiting for PMs regarding division B

      
Qorlas
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Fri, 13 September 2013 17:00
bad bad day of work....

I am going to rule the final 3 games this night.

Just to let know that I am leaning to rule them all 0-0 without further info.
      
Qorlas
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Sat, 14 September 2013 02:22
League Division B:



DrakeStorm - dea1 0 - 4

There was a missed appointment in August. I received the details by PM.

DrakeStorm - Olle Boll 0 - 0
DrakeStorm - Maskaride 0 - 0


And this end the League!

(Next evening I play Nation Cup)
      
DrakeStorm
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Sat, 14 September 2013 06:37
I already played maskaride and tiki has been updated. Please do not alter stats.

Letting dea win group B by default is kinda lame since we had our match scheduled to play before you were going to do any rulings, but maf can complain about that, I don't care, other than the fact that I waited an hour today to play and she didn't show.

And your 0-4 ruling makes no sense.

Quote:

belelule - Qorlas 0 - 0

missed appointment by Belelule in August, no time to play by Qorlas this week

DrakeStorm - dea1 0 - 4

missed appointment by Drake in August. [no time to play by dea this week]

      
Olle Boll
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Sat, 14 September 2013 08:38
Some comments about this season in League.
It wasn't my best but I still had a chance not to end last.
I hoped to find a solution to play mr Drake but it failed despite the 5 Pms I sent him;

1. sep 1st telling him time will soon be out- no reply
2-4 he offered time to play on Wednesday and I said I may be able to play. I asked him to confirm both that it was ok to play after the original deadline and that the game was still on. I was there at 2030 but no Mr Drake. He later Pm me that he showed up 10 min late
5. I got an offer to play yesterday Friday. Sent fifth Pm saying yes. Please confirm. I showed up there but then he scheduled a game against Maskeride.

So I tried to solve this without involving Qorlas but it surely failed

In order to avoid this unnecessary crap in the future I would suggest the following:

1 A deadline is a deadline. If the deadline changes it should be clearly announced. couldn't see any notice in div b thread
2 If you send a Pm for a game it should be confirmed. This may sound like Kindergarten but oblivious not for everybody
      
DrakeStorm
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Sat, 14 September 2013 09:37
WASA Olle Boll wrote on Fri, 13 September 2013 23:38

Some comments about this season in League.
It wasn't my best but I still had a chance not to end last.
I hoped to find a solution to play mr Drake but it failed despite the 5 Pms I sent him;

1. sep 1st telling him time will soon be out- no reply
2-4 he offered time to play on Wednesday and I said I may be able to play. I asked him to confirm both that it was ok to play after the original deadline and that the game was still on. I was there at 2030 but no Mr Drake. He later Pm me that he showed up 10 min late
5. I got an offer to play yesterday Friday. Sent fifth Pm saying yes. Please confirm. I showed up there but then he scheduled a game against Maskeride.

So I tried to solve this without involving Qorlas but it surely failed

In order to avoid this unnecessary crap in the future I would suggest the following:

1 A deadline is a deadline. If the deadline changes it should be clearly announced. couldn't see any notice in div b thread
2 If you send a Pm for a game it should be confirmed. This may sound like Kindergarten but oblivious not for everybody


Don't make it look like you are the great communicator.

You sent a PM on Augst 8th. Saying you could play the 8th-11th. Too short of notice since I can't read PM till the 9th and was busy the 10th and 11th. I responded to all my league opponents on the 12th saying I wanted to get as many matches done between the 15th and 20th any day in prime euro time slots (20:30-22:00 CEST start). I hear back from people, I play people. Do I hear from you? No.

Flash forward Sept 4th you PM me, but don't offer any times. Sept 9th I send out PM to remaining opponents to try to get matches done. So you respond at 3am on Wednesday saying you "might" be able to play on wednesday. Then you respond again saying that "despite 2 pms I assume you can't play today". This is before I even have a chance to read the PMs. So I log in see your two PMs, goto lobby (10 minutes past time I suggested that you said you 'might' be able to play), and you are not there. I assume you couldn't play since surely you would have waited 10 minutes if you could play.

I send out 1 more PM on the 11th, but by the time you respond - the 13th at 8:30am my time, Maskaride already took the time slot a day before.
      
DrakeStorm
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Sat, 14 September 2013 10:01
As for the deadline it not the same as a tournament that has 'rounds'. You are not holding anyone up for the next round. Sure there needs to be an end, but when lots of people wait til the last minute to play, at the very least non-european time zone players should get an extension.

US League B. 10 weeks long. Started June 28th. First match played August 8th. That's 6 weeks after the start of the league!! So really League B was only 4 weeks long. Sorry if I can't clear my day schedule to accomadate all the euro players to play at a nice convenient time (thanks knock for playing during your morning/my night time). In the past I could manage, but with 2 leagues going on at the same time, it was not possible this time. And everything was going to work out, just needed a few extra days.

So dea and Olle, if you want to play our match then let's schedule it and play it, and see what place you would come in.

      
Qorlas
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Sat, 14 September 2013 11:34
Just three remarks:

1) dea sent me all the material regarding a missed appointment in August. A missed appointment has always been enough to call the win in case of ruling without other things

2) I posted the duration of the extension in the main League thread in the morning of Monday! It was until Wednesday, then agreed to go exceptionally until your game with Knockando, but that was the final time limit.

3) It is not a big trouble being first or second in Division B because both positions award the same thing: promotion in Division A.
      
Knockando
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Sat, 14 September 2013 12:07
Qorlas écrit le Sat, 14 September 2013 11:34

2) then agreed to go exceptionally until your game with Knockando,



Why did you do that ? ? ?

I would have been second without that ! !

Laughing Laughing Laughing


      
Qorlas
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Sat, 14 September 2013 12:34
Just because I could not make the rulings before Friday morning Laughing
      
AAA_dea1
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Sat, 14 September 2013 12:42
Q asked me to comment, too, so here's my remarks:

1) Our story is longer than just 1 missed appointment.
I sent PM to TD with the whole story (CC'd to Drake asking him to comment or correct in case he sees something differently) yesterday afternoon (CEST).

2) I would never claim a default win just because of 1 missed appointment. I really tried to find another date afterwards.

3) Of course I would have played the scheduled match yesterday - but if TD tells me it must not be played, I don't play.
I've been TD long enough myself ... I insisted that my decisions were respected and followed ... I respect and follow those of other TDs.
If I have a problem with them, I send PM to the TD and ask him to reconsider, but privately.

4) Drake got my PM to TD before the time for which we had scheduled our match, so I was sure he would not wait for me to show up.
I'm truly sorry, Drake, if I kept you waiting, because you didn't read it before.

5) Here's what I told Qorlas yesterday on skype:
if you like, you can rule the game as 4-0 but add that I agree to place Maf 1st nonetheless due to the special situation (Maf played Drake, I didn't; Maf won the direct match between us), that's fine with me.

but I think it produces a really bad precendence if you rule that 0-0 - that's why I still insist on getting my 4-whatever if you don't follow the suggestion (I suggested that Q cancels all of Drake's games to do the group ranking, but let's Drake stay in group B next year, because the games he did play clearly show that he would have qualified for at least that, had he played all his games)
If people learn, that non played matches are normally ruled 0-0 they can tease opp's they don't like as they wish.

Summary:
@Maf: Sorry, you would have deserved to win the group
@Drake: While I do believe that most of the blame for our non played match is on you, I'm sorry anyhow about the development. The end (where you really tried to get it scheduled + adapt to my possibilities) was definitely unlucky. Hope to meet you again for a frictionless, good and tough match soon (well, NC is on).
@Qorlas: Thanks for your work as TD. It's a hard and time consuming job, and you do it very well. There are situations where you cannot find a perfect solution that fits rules, organizational needs, everyone's personal situations and your own and other's feeling for fairness altogether. This was one of them ...

.. and yes, I'm happy that I made it to group A ... at least for the next season. Thx group B, cu again soon (hopefully not).
      
SMP-JenAck
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Sat, 14 September 2013 13:49
WASA Olle Boll schrieb am Sat, 14 September 2013 08:38


1 A deadline is a deadline



I fully agree with this.
I accept Qorlas and he make a great Job!!


But sometimes i ask me why i play some games when i am sick,when some small kids is crying around??
I should also let my opponent wait or write i cannot play today and play after deadline.
I think many are thinkings we dont need to hurry up.
Qorlas will give us some extra days anyway.
I think this way of thinking is not fair for the rest who really play all saison until deadline. Confused

ATN Drake schrieb am Sat, 14 September 2013 10:01


So really League B was only 4 weeks long.



I played 1 game in july and 10 games after 19.th august.
As i know as was also my fault do not play before i cannot complain after.And if i begin after the holidays and have only 3 weeks for 10 games i know i need to play nearly all evenings.

Its seems its always the same when league is finish.
Qorlas need to give some extra days.
Read some pms and hear the complain of players.
I really hope he dont will get tired of this work. Confused
      
Olle Boll
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Sat, 14 September 2013 17:09
Totally agree with Jen:

But sometimes i ask me why i play some games when i am sick,when some small kids is crying around??
I should also let my opponent wait or write i cannot play today and play after deadline.
I think many are thinkings we dont need to hurry up.
Qorlas will give us some extra days anyway.
I think this way of thinking is not fair for the rest who really play all saison until deadline. Confused


Its seems its always the same when league is finish.
Qorlas need to give some extra days.
Read some pms and hear the complain of players.
I really hope he dont will get tired of this work. Confused [/quote]


So Qorlas please be tougher about deadlines, then you will not have this discussion anymore. Feel sorry for you, must be tiresome to receive all this quarrels. If you join a tournament and you know when it starts and ends you should be able to decide whether you could finish it in time or not.

The same goes for answering Pms. If you can't reply a message, why send them
      
Maskaride - Vouvray
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Sun, 15 September 2013 18:53
Really really TOTALLY agree with Jen !!!

I send to Qorlas the details of the pm's exchange between Drake and me, and looking forward a fair decision.
      
Qorlas
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Sun, 15 September 2013 20:37
1a) When the league deadline arrives, I look for when I will have time to make rulings in the following days and give 2-3 days more to play until that time.

1b) In this way I also announce when I will make the rulings.

2) I create (and always created a new thread for the rulings). You cannot expect I post the same message in all the divisions threads.

3) I expect that in the days before ruling time people wishing to claim rights for a game-win contact me giving me all the details even if they are trying to play the game (just in case...)

4) I gave one day more (friday) to people involved in division B to send PMs because I feared to not have all the info. That was the time when I should have received the PMs.

5) When a ruling is given, it is FINAL. Otherwise you would open the door to everyone asking for revisions.

6) I could just stay strict on my post about FINAL deadline being wednesday... in this case DrakeStorm would have played 3 series out of 7 (less than 50%). All his games declared null and he would have been placed at the bottom with 0 points.

7) To have also Thursday was a gift by fate (not my decision). You can thank my work that kept me busy all day... otherwise rulings would have been out on Thursday.

Cool I can rule on what I know..... it is not my duty to search everyone asking for their version... it is a burden of the players to give me all the details to have a better judgement.

But after I do them... they are definitive... let's call this as the first step towards being more strict in the application of the rules.

9) Why did I rule 0-0 my game with Belelule? Because I could not play before yesterday last week. Considering what happened in August I could have ruled out my win in that clash!


*****) I am tempted to declare null all the games played after Wednesday 11th September to stay consistent with my post in the forum... but would be just a reaction move.

You can expect some changes in the next competitions regarding deadlines.

Good NC all.
      
Qorlas
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Sun, 15 September 2013 20:55
P.S.:

should I remind this rule dating back from Wildfire that I chose to apply only in extreme cases?

"If a player did (culpably) not play two or more matches, he is ranked last in the division and faces relegation. While the matches played may be (if more than half of the matches) scored as played, the last rank is set regardless of the points. At the discretion of the TD he may also be dropped to the very bottom or excluded immediately."
      
DrakeStorm
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Mon, 16 September 2013 00:08
I am fine with the ruling.

I just wanted to play out my matches. I joined league to play competitive games, and see how I do. I wanted to know if I won Group B.

If after the fact you want to say my place was 4th, 5th, last, doesn't bother me too much (except it wasn't really my fault the matches didn't get played - I've played in all 13 seasons, and have only had minimal issues).

      
Qorlas
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Mon, 16 September 2013 02:28
I just re-checked the League rules:


"If a player did (culpably by him or by both)not play two or more matches, he is ranked last in the division and faces relegation. While the matches played may be (if more than half of the matches) scored as played, the last rank is set regardless of the points. At the discretion of the TD he may also be dropped to the very bottom or excluded immediately."

So DrakeStorms games for the League are null.
The final ranking of Division B will be:

maf 38
dea1 35
yaelka 32.5
Doc 22.5
Olle Boll 21.5
Qorlas 21
Maskaride 18.5
Drakestorm --
      
Qorlas
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Mon, 16 September 2013 02:54
As a last thing:

after 13 beautiful seasons (5 years!!!), 5 with Wildfire and the remaining with me, I feel that the Leagues have reached their aim and cannot go further. Troubles of scheduling and the lack of players make me feel that they are on their way down.

So I declare that I will not follow them anymore with this format and I hope that a new and better format will arise for next year (that I could be glad to follow again as a TD).
      
TuS yaelka
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Mon, 16 September 2013 09:58
Qorlas schrieb am Sun, 15 September 2013 20:37


...

5) When a ruling is given, it is FINAL. Otherwise you would open the door to everyone asking for revisions.

...


tried to update ticki today at about 1.00 am

Qorlas schrieb am Mon, 16 September 2013 02:28



I just re-checked the League rules:


"If a player did (culpably by him or by both)not play two or more matches, he is ranked last in the division and faces relegation. While the matches played may be (if more than half of the matches) scored as played, the last rank is set regardless of the points. At the discretion of the TD he may also be dropped to the very bottom or excluded immediately."

So DrakeStorms games for the League are null.
The final ranking of Division B will be:

maf 38
dea1 35
yaelka 32.5
Doc 22.5
Olle Boll 21.5
Qorlas 21
Maskaride 18.5
Drakestorm --


Shocked Surprised

Is this one final now? ... or shall I better wait some more days!? Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

[Mis à jour le: Mon, 16 September 2013 10:06]

      
Sysyphus - Pommard
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Mon, 16 September 2013 10:06
It looks like rulings still stand, Qorlas just needed to publish the final standings.

[Mis à jour le: Mon, 16 September 2013 10:13]

      
Qorlas
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Mon, 16 September 2013 11:08
Rulings on the games stand. The ranking is just a consequence of applying the rules.
      
TuS yaelka
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Mon, 16 September 2013 12:39
It changed regarding Drake:

first decision:

Drake - dea 0 - 4
Drake - Maskaride 0 - 0
Drake - Olle Boll 0 - 0


second decission:

nullify all of Drakes games

......


but till the extended deadline Drake played 4 of his matches. So what?

Anyway. It won't make a real difference ... specially if this was last season of league Sad
      
Qorlas
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Mon, 16 September 2013 13:11
re-read Wildfire rules:

"If a player did (culpably by him or by both)not play two or more matches, he is ranked last in the division and faces relegation. While the matches played may be (if more than half of the matches) scored as played, the last rank is set regardless of the points. At the discretion of the TD he may also be dropped to the very bottom or excluded immediately."
      
TuS yaelka
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Mon, 16 September 2013 13:48
... so the great difference is:

I counted Drakes games played (concerning points for ranking) ... and you didn't.

Ok, I didn't put right ranking according to wildfires rules ... but points could be set either way, or not?

... and as I mentioned ... it doesn't matter anyway anymore ...

I just found it kind of annoying finding your different counting after having finished tiki about one hour Wink

but like that I am happy to say:

GRATS ~maf for winning Div B King King King

you really deserved it ... and thanks again for playing our match late night with those lots of difficulties

- sorry for my English, I hope it is at least understandable, what I meant -
      
Taka Maf
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Mon, 16 September 2013 14:25
TuS yaelka écrit le Mon, 16 September 2013 13:48

... so the great difference is:

I counted Drakes games played (concerning points for ranking) ... and you didn't.

Ok, I didn't put right ranking according to wildfires rules ... but points could be set either way, or not?

... and as I mentioned ... it doesn't matter anyway anymore ...

I just found it kind of annoying finding your different counting after having finished tiki about one hour Wink

but like that I am happy to say:

GRATS ~maf for winning Div B King King King

you really deserved it ... and thanks again for playing our match late night with those lots of difficulties

- sorry for my English, I hope it is at least understandable, what I meant -





Thank you Yaelka !


[Mis à jour le: Mon, 16 September 2013 19:19]

      
dandee
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Tue, 17 September 2013 12:21
in tickipedia there is an error

division d

1) U31
2) DANDEE

cu
dan
      
Knockando
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Tue, 17 September 2013 12:40
ITA dandee écrit le Tue, 17 September 2013 12:21

in tickipedia there is an error

division d

1) U31
2) DANDEE

cu
dan



I don't understand where is the error...
      
Qorlas
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Tue, 17 September 2013 12:51
Main page has the mistake I think, not the league pages.
      
Knockando
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Tue, 17 September 2013 13:33
Qorlas écrit le Tue, 17 September 2013 12:51

Main page has the mistake I think, not the league pages.


Please give me the link , I don't find it Wink
      
Qorlas
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Re:World TTR League Season 13 Rulings Tue, 17 September 2013 13:38
http://www.tickipedia.net/wiki/Main_Page



go down, on the left there are the results of the League
      
    
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