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player691683
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Help me decide - special ability to include Wed, 09 October 2013 19:23
Hi all

I've come up with my own abilities, but I can't decide which to use. I think bringing 2 to the game would be sufficient. What powers do YOU think are the coolest, and do you think they're balanced?



1) Scalp collecting (4)


Everytime you kill a new type of active enemy, collect their scalp (keep it in front of you). For every different kind of race (lost tribes, active and in decline), collect 2 VP when you go in decline/the game ends.

A power where you want to conquer regions from as MANY different opponents as possible. All in all, it should give you around 4-10 bonus VP after 2-4 turns, making it give 1-2,5 VP/turn, depending on opponents, map and your aggressivity.

2) Compulsive(4)


If you, at the end of you turn, only posses ONE kind of territory (forest, swamp etc.), those regions give an additional +2 VP.

This ability makes you want to try to conquer only ONE kind of territory. It will encourage you to abandon regions not alike the others to conquer more of the same kind. If you ONLY have 3 mountains, you collect 9 coins per turn. If you can get up to 4 alike territories, you get 12.


3)Trader (4)


For each active enemy race bordering your regions, collect 1 VP

You just wanna border as many as possible here. Potential is 4 VP/turn (that would be VERY hard in a 5 player game). Realisticly, it gives you 1-3 VP/turn


4) Isolationist (4)


Every region NOT bordering ANY enemy (including in decline and lost tribes) gives +1 VP.

This explains it self. You want as many regions as possible to NOT border anyone at any time. You can either try to spread out or try to have some "safe" isolist regions in the corners. Enemies can try to break your bonus by conquering regions close to you


5) Cultist (5)


Once per turn in you redeployment phase, you may sacrifice one token to gain 3 VP's immediately.

Well, what's to say? Keep that blood flowing!




So, what'cha thinking?

EDIT: made some balance changes

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 10 October 2013 14:15]

      
Proto Persona
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Re:Help me decide - special ability to include Wed, 09 October 2013 20:11
Maybe rename autistic to compulsive, it has less of a derogatory connotation. Overall I like these.

[Mis à jour le: Wed, 09 October 2013 20:11]

      
player691683
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Re:Help me decide - special ability to include Wed, 09 October 2013 20:15
Proto Persona wrote on Wed, 09 October 2013 20:11

Maybe rename autistic to compulsive, it has less of a derogatory connotation. Overall I like these.


Yeah, thought about "OCD" as well, but then I got confused about which one had the 'everything-must-be-the same' thing going.

But which ones do you like the MOST? Smile
      
nathaniel_z
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Re:Help me decide - special ability to include Wed, 09 October 2013 20:20
Hello there, let me see what I can do

Scalp collecting is very nice!! However a bit weak, in 2 players most likely you will get 3 races-6VP, if you "lived" 4 turns when you decline, you get 1.5 VP per turn. Alchemist gives 2 VP per turn and is a 4 power. However, in bigger maps, you might get 4-5 races, 8-10VP over 4 turns is good for a 4 power.

Autistic, maybe call them Terraforming since they make sure to be on a "standard" ground, or Focused? It sounds a bit hard, especially on the early turns, but it could work, since 3 regions can give you 9 VP (In comparison, Barricade gives you 3 bonus VP if you are on 4 regions, for a total of 7). It would need test.
-EDIT- Compulsive sounds good, as per prior suggestion!

Trader, I am not sure. You can push in two streams of conquest deep in 2 enemy territories, so that they cannot abandon all regions besides you. It would be very hard to get 3 enemy territories, so in average it would be a +4 VP powers. I think 5 is definitely too strong, maybe a 3?

In comparison, here is a custom race I am making. You are welcome to use part or none of it if you wish, also I would appreciate any comment on you part to improve it if you think it's weak or strong

ANGELS (5/10): Angels gain 2 VP for each bordering (active any, I'm not sure yet) race that was not attacked by Angels this round. Opponents which active race borders Angels and do not attack them this round gain 1VP. Does not work in decline.

Isolationist, same as Drow power is Small World Underground, and they are a 4 race, therefore a 3 power. Your power differs in what it says no active enemy, not no enemy, so it would be even more powerful (Not 2 power since it is a bit weaker than merchant)

Cultist, might be fair, but it is a bit cheap. Slightly less powerful than Vanishing, and it limits your conquering ability...
After 3 turns, your loss is cumulative, 1 token on turn 1, 2 on 2 and 3 on 2, basically it is as if you had a 3 power giving you 2vp per turn, which is weaker than alchemist.

My favourites are the first two, in originality and balance!

I am working on other powers and relics/popular places, do you want to check them out? There are the last two threads I started,
A Peculiar Problem with the Portal Power and
Unused relics and places from Realms -- Suggestion.

Good job!

[Mis à jour le: Wed, 09 October 2013 20:21]

      
player691683
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Re:Help me decide - special ability to include Wed, 09 October 2013 20:43
nathaniel_z wrote on Wed, 09 October 2013 20:20

Hello there, let me see what I can do

Scalp collecting is very nice!! However a bit weak, in 2 players most likely you will get 3 races-6VP, if you "lived" 4 turns when you decline, you get 1.5 VP per turn. Alchemist gives 2 VP per turn and is a 4 power. However, in bigger maps, you might get 4-5 races, 8-10VP over 4 turns is good for a 4 power.

Autistic, maybe call them Terraforming since they make sure to be on a "standard" ground, or Focused? It sounds a bit hard, especially on the early turns, but it could work, since 3 regions can give you 9 VP (In comparison, Barricade gives you 3 bonus VP if you are on 4 regions, for a total of 7). It would need test.
-EDIT- Compulsive sounds good, as per prior suggestion!

Trader, I am not sure. You can push in two streams of conquest deep in 2 enemy territories, so that they cannot abandon all regions besides you. It would be very hard to get 3 enemy territories, so in average it would be a +4 VP powers. I think 5 is definitely too strong, maybe a 3?

In comparison, here is a custom race I am making. You are welcome to use part or none of it if you wish, also I would appreciate any comment on you part to improve it if you think it's weak or strong

ANGELS (5/10): Angels gain 2 VP for each bordering (active any, I'm not sure yet) race that was not attacked by Angels this round. Opponents which active race borders Angels and do not attack them this round gain 1VP. Does not work in decline.

Isolationist, same as Drow power is Small World Underground, and they are a 4 race, therefore a 3 power. Your power differs in what it says no active enemy, not no enemy, so it would be even more powerful (Not 2 power since it is a bit weaker than merchant)

Cultist, might be fair, but it is a bit cheap. Slightly less powerful than Vanishing, and it limits your conquering ability...
After 3 turns, your loss is cumulative, 1 token on turn 1, 2 on 2 and 3 on 2, basically it is as if you had a 3 power giving you 2vp per turn, which is weaker than alchemist.

My favourites are the first two, in originality and balance!

I am working on other powers and relics/popular places, do you want to check them out? There are the last two threads I started,
A Peculiar Problem with the Portal Power and
Unused relics and places from Realms -- Suggestion.

Good job!



Thx for you thoughts Smile

I do not own Underworld, so I dont know those powers.

Perhaps you are right with trader. Getting 2 enemies to border you, getting +4 VP, should be rather easy. And compared to "alchemist" giving +2 VP, it sounds fair with (3) I think. Because you MAY only get 0-2, if everything turns out bad, and in turns where opponents go in decline, you get less.

About cultist, you are right. Perhaps 3 VP per sacrifice would be more fair? After 3 turns, you get 9 VP's, 12 after 4 turns, but with much less tokens. (think about cultist sceletons or sorcerors. Cool combo Smile). Cultist Pixies would be VERY strong.

But having cultist ratmen would give you 13 ratmen conquering app. 5 regions and sacrificing one rat for 8 VP total. Next turn 2 more regions, sacfricing one rat for 10 VP total. Next turn again, 1 region and sacrificing one rat for 11 VP total. But now onlyt 10 ratmen left. Seems rather fair to me Smile You can get good points with cultist, but you are rather weak to conquest because of your decreasing lack of manpower

EDIT: And I think scalp colleting is rather balanced. Not many powers are balanced for 2 players anyway. So yeah, in a 3 player game, you can end up getting up to 10 points for it if you keep it while your opponents go in decline.

It COULD also be +1 VP for EVERY killed enemy (lost tribes included) overall?

[Mis à jour le: Wed, 09 October 2013 20:46]

      
nathaniel_z
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Re:Help me decide - special ability to include Wed, 09 October 2013 20:47
Hello

Cultist Pixies wouldn't be that strong, they still would get the +2 but with less "pain" in sacrificing them!
Also, 3 tokens sounds better!

What do you think of my Angels?
      
player691683
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Re:Help me decide - special ability to include Wed, 09 October 2013 20:52
nathaniel_z wrote on Wed, 09 October 2013 20:47

Hello

Cultist Pixies wouldn't be that strong, they still would get the +2 but with less "pain" in sacrificing them!
Also, 3 tokens sounds better!

What do you think of my Angels?


Uhm, exactly? Pixies cant use all those spare pixies after they attacked, so might as well sacrifice them. Meaning they dont really pay that much for the +3 VP/turn

anyways, your angels sounds balanced enough. allthought I don't like the idea that ENEMIES get coins too. No other ability in Smallworld benefits your opponents as well, really

[Mis à jour le: Wed, 09 October 2013 20:52]

      
nathaniel_z
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Re:Help me decide - special ability to include Wed, 09 October 2013 21:24
Well they do only if they don't attack you, so it's basically a defense bonus... don't attack me, well I didn't lose that region, so it keeps giving me VPs after...

If they do attack me, I get 2 vp per turn (like your traders), just not sure if it is for all regions or active only...

Angels love peace and will create basically a peace buffer in between the warring parties!
      
blaxnlion
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Re:Help me decide - special ability to include Wed, 09 October 2013 23:18
player691683 wrote on Wed, 09 October 2013 19:23

Hi all

I've come up with my own abilities, but I can't decide which to use. I think bringing 2 to the game would be sufficient. What powers do YOU think are the coolest, and do you think they're balanced?



1) Scalp collecting (4)


Everytime you kill a new type of enemy, collect their scalp (keep it in front of you). For every different kind of race (lost tribes, active and in decline), collect 2 VP when you go in decline/the game ends.

A power where you want to conquer regions from as MANY different opponents as possible. All in all, it will give you around 6-12 bonus VP at the end, depending on opponents, map and your aggressivity

2) Compulsive(4)


If you, at the end of you turn, only posses ONE kind of territory (forest, swamp etc.), those regions give an additional +2 VP.

This ability makes you want to try to conquer only ONE kind of territory. It will encourage you to abandon regions not alike the others to conquer more of the same kind. If you ONLY have 3 mountains, you collect 9 coins per turn. If you can get up to 4 alike territories, you get 12.


3)Trader (3)


At the BEGINNING of you turn, collect 2 VP's for every active race bordering your regions

The is kinda a tricky one. You want as MANY opponents to be bordering you at the start of your turn. It can give up to 8 VP/turn in a 5 player game, but that is VERY unlikely. Besides, opponents can completely negate your bonus by abandoning regions close to you in their own turn


4) Isolationist (4)


Every region NOT bordering an enemy active race gives +1 VP.

This explains it self. You want as many regions as possible to NOT border anyone at any time. You can either try to spread out or try to have some "safe" isolist regions in the corners. Enemies can tru to break your bonus by conquering regions close to you


5) Cultist (5)


Once per turn, you may sacrifice a unit to gain 3 VP's immediately

Well, what's to say? Keep that blood flowing!




So, what'cha thinking?

EDIT: made some balance changes


Hi ! I think they is potential but most of your powers are FAR too powerful. Cultist Pixies, for example. Imagine sacrificing them all 16 at your first turn. 48 VPs !!! Even if you spoil one entire next turn going into decline, it is too much !

Isolationist, in regard of Dark Elves, should only grant 3 race tokens.

Trader : a bit too powerfull, keep the bonus at one, or two but with two additionnal race tokens only.

Compulsive : far too much powerful and difficult to achieve at the same time, everyone would just skip it.

Scalp collecting : quite okay, maybe a tad too powerful. I imagined collectors (4 or 5, can't remember) : one VP for every race (including lost tribes) invaded this turn.
      
player691683
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Re:Help me decide - special ability to include Thu, 10 October 2013 09:33
blaxnlion wrote on Wed, 09 October 2013 23:18

Hi ! I think they is potential but most of your powers are FAR too powerful. Cultist Pixies, for example. Imagine sacrificing them all 16 at your first turn. 48 VPs !!! Even if you spoil one entire next turn going into decline, it is too much !

Isolationist, in regard of Dark Elves, should only grant 3 race tokens.

Trader : a bit too powerfull, keep the bonus at one, or two but with two additionnal race tokens only.

Compulsive : far too much powerful and difficult to achieve at the same time, everyone would just skip it.

Scalp collecting : quite okay, maybe a tad too powerful. I imagined collectors (4 or 5, can't remember) : one VP for every race (including lost tribes) invaded this turn.


Cultists can only sacrifice ONE token per turn, as stated Smile So I don't think that is overpowered. Comparing it to peaceloving, which also gives 3 VP/turn, you can ofc attack all you want with cultists, but your conquering ability will decrease rather fast.

Perhaps 3 is better for isolationist, yeah. Unless I change it to include Lost tribes and decline too.

Trader is too powerfull, yes. + 4 VP/turn, potential 6 is just too much. Perhaps I could change it to +1 VP for every active race at you borders at the end of you turn and a (4). Which will give you 1-3 every turn, mostly resulting in +2 VP/turn realisticly.

Compulsive is not THAT powerfull. But yeah, I'll give you that it may be just too weird Smile

Scalp collecters is be too powerfull too, yeah... You should be able to get at least 2 different scalps in one turn, giving you 4 scalps = 8 VP's for 2 turns at minimum. Perhaps only active races?

Hmmm... Gotta rethink some of these...

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 10 October 2013 09:38]

      
blaxnlion
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Re:Help me decide - special ability to include Thu, 10 October 2013 13:34
player691683 wrote on Thu, 10 October 2013 09:33

blaxnlion wrote on Wed, 09 October 2013 23:18

Hi ! I think they is potential but most of your powers are FAR too powerful. Cultist Pixies, for example. Imagine sacrificing them all 16 at your first turn. 48 VPs !!! Even if you spoil one entire next turn going into decline, it is too much !

Isolationist, in regard of Dark Elves, should only grant 3 race tokens.

Trader : a bit too powerfull, keep the bonus at one, or two but with two additionnal race tokens only.

Compulsive : far too much powerful and difficult to achieve at the same time, everyone would just skip it.

Scalp collecting : quite okay, maybe a tad too powerful. I imagined collectors (4 or 5, can't remember) : one VP for every race (including lost tribes) invaded this turn.


Cultists can only sacrifice ONE token per turn, as stated Smile So I don't think that is overpowered. Comparing it to peaceloving, which also gives 3 VP/turn, you can ofc attack all you want with cultists, but your conquering ability will decrease rather fast.

Perhaps 3 is better for isolationist, yeah. Unless I change it to include Lost tribes and decline too.

Trader is too powerfull, yes. + 4 VP/turn, potential 6 is just too much. Perhaps I could change it to +1 VP for every active race at you borders at the end of you turn and a (4). Which will give you 1-3 every turn, mostly resulting in +2 VP/turn realisticly.

Compulsive is not THAT powerfull. But yeah, I'll give you that it may be just too weird Smile

Scalp collecters is be too powerfull too, yeah... You should be able to get at least 2 different scalps in one turn, giving you 4 scalps = 8 VP's for 2 turns at minimum. Perhaps only active races?

Hmmm... Gotta rethink some of these...



My mistake for Cultist ! But it's still a bit too much, especially with five tokens...
      
player691683
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Re:Help me decide - special ability to include Thu, 10 October 2013 14:14
blaxnlion wrote on Thu, 10 October 2013 13:34

player691683 wrote on Thu, 10 October 2013 09:33

blaxnlion wrote on Wed, 09 October 2013 23:18

Hi ! I think they is potential but most of your powers are FAR too powerful. Cultist Pixies, for example. Imagine sacrificing them all 16 at your first turn. 48 VPs !!! Even if you spoil one entire next turn going into decline, it is too much !

Isolationist, in regard of Dark Elves, should only grant 3 race tokens.

Trader : a bit too powerfull, keep the bonus at one, or two but with two additionnal race tokens only.

Compulsive : far too much powerful and difficult to achieve at the same time, everyone would just skip it.

Scalp collecting : quite okay, maybe a tad too powerful. I imagined collectors (4 or 5, can't remember) : one VP for every race (including lost tribes) invaded this turn.


Cultists can only sacrifice ONE token per turn, as stated Smile So I don't think that is overpowered. Comparing it to peaceloving, which also gives 3 VP/turn, you can ofc attack all you want with cultists, but your conquering ability will decrease rather fast.

Perhaps 3 is better for isolationist, yeah. Unless I change it to include Lost tribes and decline too.

Trader is too powerfull, yes. + 4 VP/turn, potential 6 is just too much. Perhaps I could change it to +1 VP for every active race at you borders at the end of you turn and a (4). Which will give you 1-3 every turn, mostly resulting in +2 VP/turn realisticly.

Compulsive is not THAT powerfull. But yeah, I'll give you that it may be just too weird Smile

Scalp collecters is be too powerfull too, yeah... You should be able to get at least 2 different scalps in one turn, giving you 4 scalps = 8 VP's for 2 turns at minimum. Perhaps only active races?

Hmmm... Gotta rethink some of these...



My mistake for Cultist ! But it's still a bit too much, especially with five tokens...


You really think it is? I agree, it's rather strong. But compare it to Peaceloving. That gives you (4) and flat out 3 VP's every turn you dont attack any active. That's mostly quite easy, because you just take all the free land + decline/LT you can.

Being cultist gives you the same amount of VPs/turn. BUT you start with one more token, yes. But after 2 turns, it's 2 tokens LESS than with peaceloving. So it starts out a little stronger, but comes out a little weaker in the end.

Downside (compared to peaceloving): after 2 turns, much less manpower. Weak after 3 or more turns, where you can't really conquer anything.

Upside (compared to peaceloving): 1 more token to begin with. You can attack active races.


Remember, cultist WILL be strong on certain races. Skeletons, sorcerors, pixies, ratmen, barbarians.

But it would be close to useless on other races. White ladies, priestesses, dwarfs, trolls, orcs too. Any race without many tokens to give, needing every little token they can to benefit from their racial power.

But I do see your point. At (5), it's strong and usefull on many races. At (4) I find it a bit too weak compared to peaceloving/alchemists, who keep their tokens, unless killed by enemies and still get 2/3 VP/turn without having that much downside.

Comparing to forest/swamp (4) I would also say it would be too weak with (4). It's kinda easy to get those 3 swamps/forests, giving you those sweet 3 VP/turn, without losing any tokens
      
player691683
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Re:Help me decide - special ability to include Fri, 11 October 2013 11:20
Uhm... That's a lot of powers...

Not meaning to be rude, but you're kinda messing my thread :/ The subject was critisism on MY abilities, not me wanting to see 70+ (!) races and abilities from you...

I would appreciate it, if you deleted it or shortened it A LOT

[Mis à jour le: Fri, 11 October 2013 11:21]

      
Proto Persona
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Re:Help me decide - special ability to include Fri, 11 October 2013 11:26
player691683 wrote on Fri, 11 October 2013 04:20

Uhm... That's a lot of powers...

Not meaning to be rude, but you're kinda messing my thread :/ The subject was critisism on MY abilities, not me wanting to see 70+ (!) races and abilities from you...

I would appreciate it, if you deleted it or shortened it A LOT

Gotta agree, that's a pretty big hijack...
      
blaxnlion
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Re:Help me decide - special ability to include Fri, 11 October 2013 12:58
Sorry guys, I just thought this forum was especially to share ideas ! If you don't want to, fine, but it's rather a shame... although there might be a little to much, I gotta say. Nevertheless, your ideas are still on the first comment and that's what people will read first. I did the same with other people and they didn't make such a fuss. It was quite the opposite, they were glad to have somebody to exchange ideas with, but if you're not this kind of person, fine. I'm deleting everything but I won't share anything on this post anymore.
      
player691683
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Re:Help me decide - special ability to include Fri, 11 October 2013 14:27
Thank you, that sounds good.

You are free to comment on my abilities if you want. But right now, I'm not looking for other peoples abilities. The whole point of the topic was me, wanting to implement 2 abilities of my own to my own game and getting them balanced beforehand Smile



      
blaxnlion
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Re:Help me decide - special ability to include Fri, 11 October 2013 15:25
That is respectable, my friend, but you don't have the monopoly of a thread Wink That's how a forum works. You were not obliged to take one of my ideas, you could just kindly reply to a few of them, giving your opinion, like I kindly did with yours. Why is the need of creating hundreds of infinitesimal threads when one can simply post his/her ideas on an already existing one that deals with the same things ?
      
    
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