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Quit2
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Sun, 13 July 2014 01:14
http://i61.tinypic.com/mrsn5s.jpg

We played this Saturday.
You can see in the picture above that there was one full setup (6 maps) and 1 half setup (3 american maps)

On the half setup, the Americans won with a decent advantage (was it 37-25?). Especially on Omaha beach, a big breakthrough had been established.

On the full setup, the Axis won 78-69. Nowhere did the landing forces get more than 2 or 3 hexes past the beach. Especially Utah Beach was very bloody.

--

Afterwards, 6 players remained and we played the American Landings again. Again, Utah beach was very bloody. The final score was 37-36, in favour of the Axis.

My impressions after these plays (and seeing friends play on other parts of the map): When the Utah map is played together with the airborne landing (and gets support from the big guns and the 2 infantry from the airborne landing map), landing on Utah without being killed immediately after is very difficult. Especially if the Axis player on Utah manages to bring his armour forward.
      
rasmussen81
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Sun, 13 July 2014 06:22
Glad you had a chance to play the expansion with lots of people!!

Quit2 wrote on Sat, 12 July 2014 16:14

My impressions after these plays (and seeing friends play on other parts of the map): When the Utah map is played together with the airborne landing (and gets support from the big guns and the 2 infantry from the airborne landing map), landing on Utah without being killed immediately after is very difficult. Especially if the Axis player on Utah manages to bring his armour forward.


Aside from Utah being difficult, what did you think?

1) Was it fun? What did the people involve think of the experience?

2) How long did it take to play through Operation Neptune?

3) What was your feeling of the Reinforcement rules?

4) Is this something you and your group will try and do again, or after one day were you all ready to try something else?

These are just a few questions that I can imagine helping people get a sense of the expansion, but if anyone thinks of others please chime in! Razz
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Sun, 13 July 2014 09:29
Well since I was there too I can give my opinion. Cool

1) Was it fun? What did the people involve think of the experience?
Yes it was fun, everybody had a good time. Some players felt that is was a bit less a group experience as they mainly interacted with their opponent and direct neighbours. Quit2 and myself were moving around more and seeing how the rest got on. Also the more experienced players are asked for rule knowledge and advice more so they tend to interact with more people. The youngest player (12), my son, likes M44 only so so (I know Embarassed ) but this he had to be a part of. He played the allies on American airborne on the "small" setup.
He, and bartjuh, playing the same roll on the big map, both feel rolling for the reinforcements on this map does not give a lot of pleasure since the possible reinforcements on this map are so restricted.

2) How long did it take to play through Operation Neptune?
Setup time was about an hour with about six to eight persons.
We started playing at about noon. The "small" setup finished at about 4:30 pm and the complete Neptune took a half hour longer. Both with a little break in the middle. So about 4 to 5 hours to finish.
Coordination on playing the turns phases at the same time was relatively "loose" but starting the next turn resynchronised everybody (almost all of the time, some generals were really in a hurry Smile )

3) What was your feeling of the Reinforcement rules?
The reinforcement rules are fun, but you need to "hit" one now and then. Getting no reinforcements is no fun. Both allied players on the American airborne maps got a little frustrated with striking out so many times. My son saw two tigers enter the field in the last two turns on the small setup. His opponent definitely having more luck.

4) Is this something you and your group will try and do again, or after one day were you all ready to try something else?
I think we will try to do it again. When we left yesterday the remaining group did not even want to consider playing anything else.
I am at this point considering driving to the next state (translated to US understanding Wink ) to play in another Operaton Neptune. So yes we will try this again.



As axis general of Utah beach being opposed by Vercingetorinox I was very glad that Quit2 helped from American airborne. Quit and I coordinated a lot, the interaction with my right neighbour was much much smaller. This because I had to concentrate on the Americans not landing on Utah and a lack of units on that side of my field. I did try to give support with my big guns but they whiffed every time.


My son just said he would consider playing the breakthrough maps as opposed to playing "normal" M44, which he is kind of "done with" so that is a big plus for my household. Smile

      
Achtung Panzer
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Sun, 13 July 2014 09:29
We're playing 3 maps this afternoon and will let you all know how it went.

One thing I have noticed, admittedly whilst playing single maps solo, is that the Allies seem to win by a big margin. On most maps the Allies get 50% of their medals by clearing the beaches and taking 3 towns and often don't need to advance very far in land. It can be a tall ask for the Germans to destroy 12 units (average) as they tend to lose their starting medals.

However this does show how the maps relate to each other and are best played in multiples - which I guess is the whole point.

Glad that games with multiple players are showing a greater balance.
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Sun, 13 July 2014 10:21


Aside from Utah being difficult, what did you think?

1) Was it fun? What did the people involve think of the experience?
I had fun. I immediately stayed for the second smaller session, and I made plans to play it again the last weekend of July.
Everyone who expressed their opinion was enthusiastic. It's a very impressive experience to play Memoir on such a huge board. Some people commented that they were so focussed on their own board that they didn't play much together with their neighbours. I guess this also depends on how well experienced the players are as Memoir players. Also: during the second (smaller) session, we were more relaxed, which allowed for more and better communication.

2) How long did it take to play through Operation Neptune?
Between 4 and 5 hours, as Jeronimon said. The 3 map board was closer to 4, while the 6 map board was closer to 5) The second session (3 american maps only) took a little less than 4 hours.

3) What was your feeling of the Reinforcement rules?
I love them. At least for these maps they are excellent. I'm not sure how they will work out on smaller boards though. Before playing these scenarios, I kept wondering why the boards were a few rows longer than a regular breakthrough scenario, but now that I have played, I feel like it is necessary for the reinforcement rules.
On the Allied airborne map, for the allies, it can indeed be a little bit frustrating. You don't get many reinforcements.

4) Is this something you and your group will try and do again, or after one day were you all ready to try something else?
Yes, I want to play this more often. But you do have to plan a day around it. I certainly want to try all the 2 map combinations in break lord version.

These are just a few questions that I can imagine helping people get a sense of the expansion, but if anyone thinks of others please chime in! Razz
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Sun, 13 July 2014 10:26
One more thing: about the time needed to play:
I think it can much shorter if you have only well experienced players who have to think less about their options.
Also, make sure you have the figures and badges for the different types of reinforcements at hand, with everyone around the table knowing where to get them.
      
Vercingetorix1302
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Re: Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Sun, 13 July 2014 14:50
After reading Jeronimon's log, you already know I was (utterly) beaten by his German troops on Utah Beach. Very unhistorically, but getting off the beach was harder than expected. At one point I was able to order 8 (!!!) infantry to do an infantry assault on the beach, but managed only to eliminate 1 (and two half) units of the opposing force. Jeronimon retalliated with an assault and carnage was the result. I ended up with losing those 8 infantry units (and some more) and thus made a great contribution to the Axis victory. Confused


1) Was it fun? What did the people involve think of the experience?

Yes! Definitely yes! Even after that bloody carnage on Utah ...

2) How long did it take to play through Operation Neptune?

4-5 hours, depending on the group size. It is very important to stay in pace with eachother. And that's the tricky part. While some players play a recon (and are quickly done with their turn), others play an assault and get to move up to 10 (or more) units at once. That takes more time and slow down the game. This may sound negative, but on the other hand, this give the players the opportunity to have a closer look at the other sections of the battlefields.

3) What was your feeling of the Reinforcement rules?

Great! Especially when you get some strong units. Placing them is sometimes a bit frustrating. Some units start on a landing craft and need some turns before they are usefull. Other units can battle immediately.

When playing Quit2 (on Omaha beach) he rolls almost every turn a good / great combination and at one point he wasn't able to place the gained unit because his LC's were still filled with other fresh troops ... And the Germans need 4 to 5 turns to move their reinforcements up to the coast.

4) Is this something you and your group will try and do again, or after one day were you all ready to try something else?

Is really hope so! I can't wait to have another go! I played it twice, so there are still 10 (!!) more beaches (sides) to play and get to know.


Next D-Day Landings will probably take place on Saturday 26th of July in Melle (a neighbouring village of Ghent, as easily reachable, but without the parking-space-problems Very Happy )
For more info : http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?goto=306363#msg_306363
      
rasmussen81
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Re: Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Sun, 13 July 2014 16:14
Wonderful, gents! I'm glad to hear that everyone enjoyed themselves and it makes me wish I lived closer to a big Memoir '44 group!!

Quote:

3) What was your feeling of the Reinforcement rules?
I love them. At least for these maps they are excellent. I'm not sure how they will work out on smaller boards though. Before playing these scenarios, I kept wondering why the boards were a few rows longer than a regular breakthrough scenario, but now that I have played, I feel like it is necessary for the reinforcement rules.
On the Allied airborne map, for the allies, it can indeed be a little bit frustrating. You don't get many reinforcements.


I agree that the Reinforcements can swing a bit with the luck of the rolls. I was playing Omaha and got very limited reinforcements while my opponent got lots. We noticed that rolling a Star is key!! With the Airborne map, it makes sense that less Reinforcements would enter the battle for the Allies...in real life they got very little help! But if you don't go into it knowing that you won't get many reinforcements I can see how it would be frustrating.

Thanks again for the feedback, and have fun with the next time you get together! Smile
      
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Re: Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Sun, 13 July 2014 17:38
rasmussen81 wrote on Sun, 13 July 2014 16:14

Wonderful, gents! I'm glad to hear that everyone enjoyed themselves and it makes me wish I lived closer to a big Memoir '44 group!!


Ever considered moving? Belgium seems great: There are some groups playing in Belgium, and you're close enough to the dutch group (who mainly play in the south of their country) and still have France close by for their tournaments and big events. Very Happy

I just played Utah beach as single map (solo). It really is the most special map in the bunch to my opinion. One Axis victory (4 medals difference) and one Allied victory (2 medals difference).

I'm now looking for the next map I'll try solo (want to do all 6 of them in the next few days). While looking at the british maps and omaha, I wondered about one thing:
- The land behind the beaches certainly had some minefields historically.
- The terrain pack is a required expansion to play this.
- The terrain pack contains 10 (or is it 8 ?) minefield tokens.
- Why are there no minefields on either of the maps?
Certainly for the maps with Hobart's funnies, it would be a great addition, because yet another option for the player to choose from when picking his hobart equipment.

      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Sun, 13 July 2014 18:51
I noticed the lack of minefields across all maps too - butthen again there are no engineers so I guess it evens out.

Also what about the British Artillery not being classed as Mobile and able to fire from landing Craft - as they did historically?
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Sun, 13 July 2014 23:48
I played some more. (Gold and Juno, each 1 time solo - Germans won both games, but with a lot of luck)

Rasmussen, do you have an answer to the following questions concerning the landing craft?

- When the unit in a landing craft disembarks, the landing craft should be returned to an empty hex where a landing craft started. What if there isn't any, for example because the destroyer moved onto that hex. I imagine the landing craft is put to the side, removed from game. Right? - Does it come back into play when the hex is liberated later?

- Can a destroyer or landing craft move through an hex with an empty landing craft on it? Can it end it's movement on a hex with an empty landing craft on (and maybe removing it from game)?

- Can you move an empty landing craft using one (on the move) order for it? Can a reinforcement be placed on it after it moved? (same turn or next turn?)

- If your neighbour sent you a landing craft with a unit on it, and it disembarks on your map, where does the empty landing craft end up? Back to the original owner? On your empty spots (provided you moved another landing craft away, since the rules say you can't deploy more than you had at game start)?

      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Mon, 14 July 2014 00:29
Quit2 wrote on Sun, 13 July 2014 14:48


Rasmussen, do you have an answer to the following questions concerning the landing craft?


I'll do my best! Smile

Quote:

- When the unit in a landing craft disembarks, the landing craft should be returned to an empty hex where a landing craft started. What if there isn't any, for example because the destroyer moved onto that hex. I imagine the landing craft is put to the side, removed from game. Right? - Does it come back into play when the hex is liberated later?


Correct, the LC would be placed on the open hex as soon as it becomes available.

Quote:

- Can a destroyer or landing craft move through an hex with an empty landing craft on it? Can it end it's movement on a hex with an empty landing craft on (and maybe removing it from game)?


LC are units just like any other, whether they are carrying anything or not; they block line of sight and cannot be moved through.

Quote:

- Can you move an empty landing craft using one (on the move) order for it? Can a reinforcement be placed on it after it moved? (same turn or next turn?)


Because an LC is a unit, it can be moved. However, the rules say, "Place the unit it carries on the Coastline hex and return the empty Landing Craft figure or token to any empty hex marked on the map with a Landing Craft icon, ready to be loaded with a new reinforcement unit."

As you can see, the LC is placed on the Landing Craft icon and then is ready to be loaded with a new unit. So they can't just be sitting next to land and then you load them up! They have to return to the transport ships. Smile

Quote:

- If your neighbour sent you a landing craft with a unit on it, and it disembarks on your map, where does the empty landing craft end up? Back to the original owner? On your empty spots (provided you moved another landing craft away, since the rules say you can't deploy more than you had at game start)?


You return the LC to the map it came from. If you didn't, you would essentially be giving your neighbor an extra LC, which is forbidden in the rules.

I hope this all helps and makes sense. Cool
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Mon, 14 July 2014 00:48
It makes sense.

I'm just not sure if you got my 3rd question right.
I'm talking about this scenario:

1) Move a landing craft to shore. Unit in it disembarks and LC is returned (empty) to a LC starting location that is free.
2) Next turn, move empty LC using an (on the move) order to whatever ocean hex within distance 2. Maybe your reason to do this is to make room for a destroyer.
3) Next turn or even later, place a reinforcement on the empty LC (that is no longer on a LC starting location)

Is this allowed, or can reinforcements only be placed on empty LC that are still in a LC starting location?
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Mon, 14 July 2014 01:04
What is your favorite part based on just opening the expansion?

The new supported units rules.

What concerns do you have based on just opening the expansion?

Having time to play the 6 map version Laughing


What setup have your tried? How did it go?

I played Omaha Beach twice yesterday and my US forces won both times. It seemed a bit easy for the US to do so. I will admit my rolls were better than the Germans (killed a 88 in the first game with BARRAGE, killed an 88 in game 2 with 3d and an arty with 3d) and I also got al ot of reinforcements while the Germans did not do so well here. Once at least 2 beaches are clear, I think the Germans are in trouble and the town hexes are close enough to the beaches that the US seemed like they should reach them soon.

About how long do you think it took to set up?

Less than 20 mins after I arrived at the gaming location. But I allow myself a headstart by gathering all the needed materials and packing them up so that they are hand for a faster setup.


After playing at least one battle, what are your feelings about this expansion? Must have, it's all right, or you'll be selling it soon?

I would say it is a must have. Playing on this grand of a scope should be experienced by all.

What do you think of the new rules that are introduced in this expansion?

I like the new ones and am pleased by some of the changes.


Do you have any questions that you couldn't figure out? About units, reinforcements, objectives, etc.?

Not currently.

[Mis à jour le: Mon, 14 July 2014 01:06]

      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Mon, 14 July 2014 04:04
Quit2 wrote on Sun, 13 July 2014 15:48

It makes sense.

I'm just not sure if you got my 3rd question right.


To prevent this thread from getting further off track, I'm going to start a new thread with this question. Then we can discuss it in more depth and this thread can remain focused on impressions of the D-Day Landings Expansion.
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Mon, 14 July 2014 22:51
as soon as DOW announced the newest expansion D-day landings, (or should I say, operation Neptune,) M44brigade began thinking about the right day to play it. Last Saturday, July 12 finally was that day. Jeronimon, Vercingetorix1302 and Quit2 already told about this day so some things will be double.

Photos
For an impression

Organizing
First, some players are worried about organizing this great expansion. It's not that hard as it seems, just keep some things in mind:
- Divide the maps between players and make sure everybody assembles the correct units, tokens/badges, deck, dice etc for his map. This way setup goes much faster.
- Copy the Briefings so every map or player has his own.
- Make sure you know the rules, and can explain them to new players
- Setting up the game (if everybody got his troops ready to deploy) costs about 1 hour with a few people
- Putting everything back to its right owner is more complicated and takes more time, depending on the number of players. (Jeronimon and I could setup 1 complete sets of maps, It took about half an hour to sort out the unit, which was easy since Jeronimon marked all his units)

Our day
10:00 - 12:00 Organizing tables, setting up the game, etc. With the members of M44brigade.nl
12:00 - 13:00 Welcome to all players and introduction of the new rules.
13:00 - 14:30 playing the first part:
One big setup (6 maps) (axis victory 78-69)
One small setup (3 maps, Allied landings) (allied victory 37-25)
14:30 - 15:00 Break
15:00 - 16:30 The small Setup finishes
15:00 - 17:00 Big Setup Finishes
17:00 - 17:30 Everything put back in the boxes
17:30 - 18:30 Break and setup
18:30 - 22:15 Second round
One small setup ( 3 maps, Allied landings (Axis victory 37-36)

Overall gameplay
We began at 13:00 after a short introduction off the rules. None of the players played this expansion so we all had to figure out how things worked on the battlefield. In the beginning of the game this took some extra time but after half an hour everything went faster. Biggest problem overall was too keep the game synchronized. We were so focused on our part of the battlefield that sometimes you forgot there was another general 5 maps away. Along the way this went better as we got used to the rules and began some small coordination's between maps. After an hour and a half we took a break so we could take a look on the maps and coordinate our attacks . Throughout the game medals switched side many times. Town control and Beach control Rules made sure there was a lot of action near these places. Because you depend on 5 other players the total of medals changed every turn. Germans and Allies lead the game several times, making the game really exiting. After 4,5 hour play the small setup ended with an Allied victory. Half an hour later the big setup ended in an Axis victory 78-69. Since 6 players can win medals and objective medals kept changing side it was more exiting then it seems this way.
In the evening we played another half setup. This went much faster as we knew the rules. We played 3,5 hour with a very close axis victory. Since we knew the rules we also had more time to interact with other players. This made it even more fun.

Personal experience
How I personally experienced the day and in the meantime I try to answer some of Rasmussens questions Very Happy
What is your favorite part based on just opening the expansion?
I'm still amazed how big the maps are! I kept unfolding one map and was even worried for a second if it would all fit the room we played in.
What concerns do you have based on just opening the expansion?
As some already said: Its paper so you've got to be carefull.
[i]After playing at least one battle, what are your feelings about this expansion? Must have, it's all right, or you'll be selling it soon?
In the afternoon I played the British on sword beach. With 19 (!!!) infantry units and a lot off tanks, destroyer, and some Hobart funnies. With an overloaded map there was an lot of action. I managed to take 2 beaches so reinforcements could land more easily, but I never really got to use them (I lacked assault cards) The airborne units got a lot of action and tried to take some towns and bridges. The German player did not got that many reinforcements so that should be easy. unfortunatly, cards were not good, but I managed to take out the big guns, took 2 beaches and got 4 towns. The game ended to soon for me, but axis players reached their goals Sad
What do you think of the new rules that are introduced in this expansion?
Great! Supported units made some difference but are not overpowered. Getting them as reinforcements is also difficult. Town and beach controll is really great, you really want to fight for them as they give a lot of medals.
Reinforcement rules are great too. It's always fun to see which unit you can get. But for me the flags where more important as I had enough units. More units on the move helped me position my troops better or get some free medals (towns, brigdes) downside is they add more luck to the game. My opponent got at least 5 turns in a row no reinforcements which he really needed.
In the end: this is really one to keep Very Happy

Was it fun? What did the people involve think of the experience?
Fun? It was great, it was a wonderful experience, it was exiting and tense.
Looking at the faces at the end of the day I think everybody else also had a great time.

Is this something you and your group will try and do again, or after one day were you all ready to try something else?
Well, we played another setup straight after the first game with the people who didn't have to leave and we gonna play on july 26 again in Belgium, So I think the answer is very clear.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kZw6TF6vCnM/U8Q7-MLFL_I/AAAAAAAAAnE/PCenSfWVR5I/w850-h563-no/M44+Brigade+-+D-Day+Landings+12+juli+2014+%25281%2529.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-1ktkPujEufs/U8Q8ASlJdOI/AAAAAAAAAno/elsvkEYig2o/w850-h563-no/M44+Brigade+-+D-Day+Landings+12+juli+2014+%252815%2529.JPG


      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Tue, 15 July 2014 00:54
I got to play the single map battles of American airborne and Utah beach. I wanted to get the feel of the new rules and logistics of each of these sections before tacking 2 or more maps.

The Allies won easily 9-3 on the airborne map. I think the reinforcement rule for them is good as I feel they have enough airborne units to do the job. The Germans only got one reinforcement which may have influenced the score.

Utah beach was really close, 12-10, Allies. The exit hexes on the right flank were easily used as the Germans had little or no answer there.

My overall impression is that this is a GREAT expansion. It is very different than what we are accustomed to. Richard did a terrific job in re-energizing the Memoir44 format. I think he was spot on in this design. It is definitely a must have.

Eric
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Tue, 15 July 2014 10:31
This is no longer a first impression, but I still want to keep giving feedback.
Be aware: I love the expansion. So don't mistake my feedback for criticism. Consider it more as an attempt to make future expansions better.

A problem for me is finding a table to play this. I have to play sideways at my table.
A breakthrough map's length is exactly the width of my table, but with these extended maps, I need to put them in the length of the table, which makes it impossible to put more than one map on the table.
At the same time, I don't have the feeling I'm using the full length of these extended breakthrough maps. Apart from some airborne units, I have yet to see the first allied unit move onto the Axis halve of the board.
The only impact of the 6 extra rows of these maps is delaying the Axis reinforcements by 2 extra turns. It takes them on average 2 turns to cross those 6 rows on roads. The same effect could easily be achieved by only allowing the Axis player reinforcement rolls from the 3rd turn onward and normal breaktrough size would do. (make it flavourful by saying the Axis didn't immediately realise the seriousness of this attack)
Besides the extended size, the fact that there is an offset between certain maps also makes it more difficult to put them on a table.

Therefor, if I were to be involved in the creation of this expansion, I'd have suggested this modification in the image below. Red lines indicate how the maps could be cut out on the landscape in a way that no offset would be needed, and the green line indicates how the maps could be reduced to breakthrough size.

Again: consider this just as constructive criticism for the next time.

http://i62.tinypic.com/11919ix.jpg
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Tue, 15 July 2014 11:57
Quit2 wrote on Tue, 15 July 2014 04:31

... I'd have suggested this modification in the image below. Red lines indicate how the maps could be cut out on the landscape in a way that no offset would be needed, and the green line indicates how the maps could be reduced to breakthrough size.http://i62.tinypic.com/11919ix.jpg


Actually, that is a very clever idea. It certainly would have made the map layout a lot more manageable.


      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Tue, 15 July 2014 12:47
tank commander wrote on Tue, 15 July 2014 11:57

Quit2 wrote on Tue, 15 July 2014 04:31

... I'd have suggested this modification in the image below. Red lines indicate how the maps could be cut out on the landscape in a way that no offset would be needed, and the green line indicates how the maps could be reduced to breakthrough size.http://i62.tinypic.com/11919ix.jpg


Actually, that is a very clever idea. It certainly would have made the map layout a lot more manageable.




Unfortunately, it's too late now. I doubt DoW will pick up the idea and start all over. Laughing

Maybe at least DoW will think about ease to set up the boards with expansions like these for the future. Even if at first glance, there is no clear solution, looking at it from another "angle" can bring a new idea.
      
LooneyLlama
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Tue, 15 July 2014 18:38
Wim,

I can see if you play only one or two maps the medal total would be reached by one side long before the Allies would get very far inland. Also, the German reinforcements would have little affect on the outcome due to the distance traveled in a shorter game. However, when you play all six of the maps at the same time did any Allied section penetrate deep into the rear? With more medals to win, that would make for a longer game and one section may have better success in getting through. Conversely, German reinforcements would play a more important role as they would get to the front lines at some point. They could also be used to aid other sections. I think strategizing amongst commanders is critical with 6 map play.

By the way, I think your layout would have been nice to consider though I have to try out the six map version to see how it plays out.

Eric
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Tue, 15 July 2014 21:03
Eric,

Even when we played the 6 scenarios in one big game (I know, it was only one time, so poor statistics based on only that one), people still didn't get more than one or 2 rows of hexes past the beach, if they even did that. There are more medals to get, but also more people to get the medals. Also, there is no real incentive to go far beond the beaches. They are worth the most objective medals.
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Wed, 16 July 2014 01:47
Wim,

Was there much transferring of units from one section to another? I thought that might be something that would enable a section to push forward.

You do have a point that even though there is more medals there are more players to earn them faster. Also,there doesn't appear to be any incentive to get off the beaches as you have stated. It looks like most of the fighting will be in one small section of each map(except the airborne one). There is nothing wrong with that as that was where most of the fighting occurred. Your map design with a delayed reinforcement chart might have made the maps a little smaller and easier to use but still give the flavor of anticipating the German counterattack.

Still, all in all, I like this design and hope maps like this are in the future for Memoir44.

Eric
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Wed, 16 July 2014 11:34
There was little transferring units from one board to another. Maybe there lie some tactical opportunities to get an edge as one side or the other.
To be tried.
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Wed, 16 July 2014 12:12
LooneyLlama wrote on Wed, 16 July 2014 01:47

Wim,

Was there much transferring of units from one section to another? I thought that might be something that would enable a section to push forward.

You do have a point that even though there is more medals there are more players to earn them faster. Also,there doesn't appear to be any incentive to get off the beaches as you have stated. It looks like most of the fighting will be in one small section of each map(except the airborne one). There is nothing wrong with that as that was where most of the fighting occurred. Your map design with a delayed reinforcement chart might have made the maps a little smaller and easier to use but still give the flavor of anticipating the German counterattack.

Still, all in all, I like this design and hope maps like this are in the future for Memoir44.

Eric


It also depends on the map. I played Allied on the Sword map and my axis opponent got some reinforcements from the Juno map.
      
sam1812
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Wed, 16 July 2014 19:36
On Monday, I got to play some D-Day Landings with none other than Rasmussen81. (I was in his part of the country for unrelated reasons, and made a little side trip.)

We played Juno/Gold Beaches, one-on-one, as an OverThrough. We used the Breakthrough deck, with Overlord rules. (Breakthrough deck gave us On The Move and affected the rules for Medics, Barrage, and Dig In.) I had Allies.

Starting with a lot of Center and Right cards, I hit the beach immediately in those sections, but on almost every turn after the first, I gave cards to all three FGs.

There was fighting in all but the leftmost section of the board. I took control of beach sections 4 and 5 on my third turn, though sections 4 and 2 changed hands multiple times as the Germans brought up units from the rear.

The Germans had two Finest Hours, with 8 orders each, which accounted for a total of four kills. I put Bobbins on some of my Hobart's Funnies, and they cleaned up quite a bit of the beach for me. My infantry in a hedgehog killed the 1-fig infantry in the section 2 bunker on a battle-back roll after voluntarily not ignoring a flag.

My Left FG scored 3 kills and built a bridge, while losing 7 units. (Two German supported armors had a significant role in this.) In the Center, I notched 3 kills while losing only 1 unit. On the Right, I killed 5 units, including the Big Gun, while losing only 2. By the end, I controlled Beach sections 2-6, worth 2 medals each, and those extra points for the beaches were the deciding factor.

Victory on my 8th turn, 25-14 medals. The battle lasted about 4 1/2 hours. A tough battle against a strong and clever opponent. (And a genuinely delightful person.)

It's a great scenario. Lots going on. The Reinforcement rule is definitely a valuable addition here. On The Move may have been an even bigger factor than the added units. It's important also to manage your Landing Craft carefully, because an empty LC still occupies its hex, even if you'd rather move another unit through it.

Our original plan was to flip this scenario for a rematch, but we ultimately decided to try American Airborne, instead. I'll write about that in a separate post, later.
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Wed, 16 July 2014 19:57
It was truly a pleasure to host Sam1812 and we enjoyed a long day of D-Day Landings! He was a gracious victor and our Juno Beach - Gold Beach battle was a struggle for the ages. Smile

Despite taking it on the chin, I had a wonderful time in the battle and would have loved to try again as the Germans if we'd had enough time. As it was, we opted to try the American Airborne which I had set up upstairs, but I had a couple ideas of how to hold off the British landing a little better...

Like Sam said, Juno/Gold is a great scenario and was very fun to play. There are lots of great decisions to make, tough choices, and a true sense of urgency. Overall a wonderful game, played with a great opponent!
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Wed, 16 July 2014 21:29
Almilcar wrote on Fri, 11 July 2014 13:14

rasmussen81 wrote on Fri, 11 July 2014 07:14

Almilcar wrote on Thu, 10 July 2014 17:03

IKEA frame called SAXNAS 50x70 cm

1 for Standard map
2 for OL and BT maps
3 for Extended BT maps
6 for OverThrough


Wow!! And you got 6 frames for only $10!? That's a great price.


3 frames are 10$ approx. Since we are a few of us with the expansion, we have 9 frames, enough to protect a Triple Map - Nations Landing.


Thanks for the tip Almicar!
I (actually my Wife) bought 3 of these and the are perfect. The with of the Plexiglas( 70 cm) is exactly the size of the board. When you use three of them they get a little bit over the board in depth. If your table is big enough this is no problem!
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Wed, 16 July 2014 21:33
sam1812 wrote on Wed, 16 July 2014 19:36

On Monday,

We played Juno/Gold Beaches, one-on-one, as an OverThrough. We used the Breakthrough deck, with Overlord rules. (Breakthrough deck gave us On The Move and affected the rules for Medics, Barrage, and Dig In.) I had Allies.


If you play by this rule, isn't it a problem that the allies can move a lot of units? Because you can play three cards, with on the move (because of the breakthroughdeck) and on the move from the reinforcements?
Allies need to move fast, while axis need time to bring reinforcements....

Sounds like a great game though! Smile
I hope to play against or with both of you in the future!

      
sam1812
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Thu, 17 July 2014 07:03
Antoi, having "On The Move" is helpful in an OverThrough for the same reasons it's helpful in Breakthrough. In fact, it may be even more valuable for the Germans, who need to move their reinforcements up about 16 rows in order to see action.
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Thu, 17 July 2014 08:44
Hi sam,

I don't wanna criticize your game in anyway (just to make sure Embarassed )
But I was thinking that the allies need a lot of on the move orders because of the many units in a small area and the german can shoot more easily at them. Besides that the LC's only need an on the move because their units can't fight after landing. Therefore, A allied player will benefit more with an overlord mode with breakthrough deck I think. The german player needs on the move but need more "order" to let his units attack the beaches.
Of course I haven't tested this, but maybe it explains the difference in medals at the end of the game?

I'm sure jesse will agree with me looking at your scorea Laughing Razz Very Happy

      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Thu, 17 July 2014 16:46
I was unfamiliar with using a normal deck (or in our case, a Breakthrough deck) with Overlord rules, so it was a new system for me. It would be interesting to play the scenario again using just the normal Breakthrough deck to see what affect our way of playing had on the game. Then maybe a third time with the same battle using the dedicated Overlord deck, to compare how each system changes the game.

In future battles I would be more comfortable with the Overlord (play up to three cards, draw two) system, since now I've played through the system once, but I will certainly not take away from Sam's victory at Juno/Gold! Very Happy

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 17 July 2014 17:34]

      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Thu, 17 July 2014 19:35
Jesse,

Sam is very adept at handling and doling out cards as CInC as is Tank Commander, can take a little getting used to for sure. In addition he is also a Master of Sleight of Hand! Always appears to have more cards than he should or always the right one! LOL!

My 2 tries at CInC over on "V", 1-1, was fun being in that role and a different way of viewing the game.

At least I have company behind he woodshed where he has taken us and countless others! Welcome to the Club!

Look forward to the BIG D-DAY LANDING experience at WBC, will be sure to try to be on Sam's side!

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 17 July 2014 19:37]

      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Fri, 18 July 2014 03:35
D-Day Landings arrived today! Mine still smells new, but I have punched out the punch-board pieces and bagged them in tiny ziplock bags (separated by what type of pieces they are). I will be playing with either one breakthrough deck or an overlord deck, as I refuse to purchase another WW. I will have to wait until one of my gamer buddies can come over on a Saturday when my wife don't have any honey do lists.
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Fri, 18 July 2014 19:35
You ought to try out my very own honey do list nullification device: "Honey, do...not bother me!" Twisted Evil
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Fri, 18 July 2014 19:48
American Airborne. Played both sides against Rasmussen81, ftf.

Game 1, as Allies, I played BEL and got a great reinforcement roll for an Artillery. My BEL knocked 2 figures off the Panzer on the baseline. Next, my TFH ordered 5 units and scored 2 kills, including the Panzer. My next three cards totaled only two more kills, while the Germans played a large Infantry Assault followed by two consecutive TFHs that resulted in 4 kills. However, my 5th card, a Probe Center, allowed me to take a town in the center and exit a unit on the right. 9-4 win in 5 turns.

It was 4-4 in kills, but I had 2 bridges, 2 town medals, and an exit. Talk about a Blitz!

In game 2, Ras's Allies started with 4 consecutive Center cards: Attack, Assault, and two Probes. These cards killed a total of 3 units, but also took 3 bridges and 2 medals' worth of towns, and on the last card he exited a unit on the side. 9-1 win for his Allies, in just 4 turns.

Talk about a bigger, faster Blitz!

I don't know whether these two battles were typical, but in our two games, it seemed like maybe the victory requirement should be higher, or the medal objectives should be harder for the Allies to attain.

The special rule for retreats probably gave the Allies an extra advantage. I'll need to play this more to understand its implications better.
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Sat, 19 July 2014 17:31
I've thought about making this post as I do not like to make House rule changes and believe that Richard and DoW have play-tested the scenarios.

But I wonder whether the Allies should get 1 medal per secured beach and not 2 - prolonging the game into the hinterland and beyond the first few hexe rows. Sometimes these scenarios feel like a Pacific landing with all the despearte fighting around the coastline. Not something that needs the bigger, deeper maps.

Now I know I've only played the scenarios a few times competitive and I do enjoy them, but this has been nagging me from the start and I see a post has already been made about superfluous baseline hexes and simply delaying German reinforcements instead.

I hope you all take this post in the spirit it was meant
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Sat, 19 July 2014 19:06
After playing half of the single maps, and fortunate enough to play a double, went back and did a game from our Campaign (from CB1).

Has the standard map ever felt so ...small!?
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Sat, 19 July 2014 19:12
Achtung Panzer wrote on Sat, 19 July 2014 17:31

I've thought about making this post as I do not like to make House rule changes and believe that Richard and DoW have play-tested the scenarios.

But I wonder whether the Allies should get 1 medal per secured beach and not 2 - prolonging the game into the hinterland and beyond the first few hexe rows. Sometimes these scenarios feel like a Pacific landing with all the despearte fighting around the coastline. Not something that needs the bigger, deeper maps.

Now I know I've only played the scenarios a few times competitive and I do enjoy them, but this has been nagging me from the start and I see a post has already been made about superfluous baseline hexes and simply delaying German reinforcements instead.

I hope you all take this post in the spirit it was meant

I've considered the same. I was also wondering about awarding only 1 medal per secured beach. Then again, it's an expansion about the D-Day landings, not what happened the days after.
      
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Re:D-Day Landings: Impressions Sat, 19 July 2014 19:23
Quit2 wrote on Sat, 19 July 2014 10:12

Achtung Panzer wrote on Sat, 19 July 2014 17:31

I've thought about making this post as I do not like to make House rule changes and believe that Richard and DoW have play-tested the scenarios.

But I wonder whether the Allies should get 1 medal per secured beach and not 2 - prolonging the game into the hinterland and beyond the first few hexe rows. Sometimes these scenarios feel like a Pacific landing with all the despearte fighting around the coastline. Not something that needs the bigger, deeper maps.

Now I know I've only played the scenarios a few times competitive and I do enjoy them, but this has been nagging me from the start and I see a post has already been made about superfluous baseline hexes and simply delaying German reinforcements instead.

I hope you all take this post in the spirit it was meant

I've considered the same. I was also wondering about awarding only 1 medal per secured beach. Then again, it's an expansion about the D-Day landings, not what happened the days after.


In our game, Sam and I forgot about Beach Control giving two medals to the Allies until the last turn when Sam remembered and jumped up to the required medals.

Had we remembered this rule from the start, I might have send troops onto the beaches a little sooner, to prevent that 3-medal swing. Like you said, it's an expansion about the Beach Landings and the focus is certainly on that part of the map. I love the desperate struggle for that beach territory!!
      
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