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rasmussen81
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  Landing Craft (LC) Question: D-Day Landings Mon, 14 July 2014 04:07
I am moving this information to its own thread so that it doesn't get lost in another...and so we can discuss it further.

rasmussen81 wrote on Sun, 13 July 2014 15:29

Quit2 wrote on Sun, 13 July 2014 14:48


Rasmussen, do you have an answer to the following questions concerning the landing craft?


I'll do my best! Smile

Quote:

- When the unit in a landing craft disembarks, the landing craft should be returned to an empty hex where a landing craft started. What if there isn't any, for example because the destroyer moved onto that hex. I imagine the landing craft is put to the side, removed from game. Right? - Does it come back into play when the hex is liberated later?


Correct, the LC would be placed on the open hex as soon as it becomes available.

Quote:

- Can a destroyer or landing craft move through an hex with an empty landing craft on it? Can it end it's movement on a hex with an empty landing craft on (and maybe removing it from game)?


LC are units just like any other, whether they are carrying anything or not; they block line of sight and cannot be moved through.

Quote:

- Can you move an empty landing craft using one (on the move) order for it? Can a reinforcement be placed on it after it moved? (same turn or next turn?)


Because an LC is a unit, it can be moved. However, the rules say, "Place the unit it carries on the Coastline hex and return the empty Landing Craft figure or token to any empty hex marked on the map with a Landing Craft icon, ready to be loaded with a new reinforcement unit."

As you can see, the LC is placed on the Landing Craft icon and then is ready to be loaded with a new unit. So they can't just be sitting next to land and then you load them up! They have to return to the transport ships. Smile

Quote:

- If your neighbour sent you a landing craft with a unit on it, and it disembarks on your map, where does the empty landing craft end up? Back to the original owner? On your empty spots (provided you moved another landing craft away, since the rules say you can't deploy more than you had at game start)?


You return the LC to the map it came from. If you didn't, you would essentially be giving your neighbor an extra LC, which is forbidden in the rules.

I hope this all helps and makes sense. Cool


      
rasmussen81
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Re:Landing Craft (LC) Question: D-Day Landings Mon, 14 July 2014 04:17
Quit2 wrote on Sun, 13 July 2014 15:48

It makes sense.

I'm just not sure if you got my 3rd question right.
I'm talking about this scenario:

1) Move a landing craft to shore. Unit in it disembarks and LC is returned (empty) to a LC starting location that is free.
2) Next turn, move empty LC using an (on the move) order to whatever ocean hex within distance 2. Maybe your reason to do this is to make room for a destroyer.
3) Next turn or even later, place a reinforcement on the empty LC (that is no longer on a LC starting location)

Is this allowed, or can reinforcements only be placed on empty LC that are still in a LC starting location?


I understand the scenario but my answer would still be the same. Like I quoted from the rules, it says, "Place the unit it carries on the Coastline hex and return the empty Landing Craft figure or token to any empty hex marked on the map with a Landing Craft icon, ready to be loaded with a new reinforcement unit."

The key here, is that it says to return the LC to a hex marked for it and that once on that spot it is ready to be loaded. Once the LC moves off that spot, without a unit, it is no longer ready to be loaded.

Imagine this scenario:
1) The LC returns to a loading hex (marked on the map).
2) You move the LC off the loading hex. The Destroyer moves onto the loading hex.
3) You roll for reinforcements, get a Standard Infantry unit, but instead of an LC sitting on the loading hex you have a Destroyer there. Unless you have a different empty LC on another loading hex or you control the beaches, you won't be able to use that reinforcement unit because there's no available LC on the loading hex.

To put it in more realistic terms, which doesn't always work, but in this case it might help: Your reinforcement unit is ready to board the LC from the supply ships that are waiting on the marked LC hexes. When they look around for their LC, they see that it's two hexes (or several hundred meters) away. They can't swim over to it... Razz so they'll have to wait until an LC is in position and empty. In game terms, the reinforcement roll would be lost.

Does that make more sense?

[Mis à jour le: Mon, 14 July 2014 06:59]

      
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Re:Landing Craft (LC) Question: D-Day Landings Mon, 14 July 2014 09:41
It makes perfect sense.

It's just not the answer I wanted to hear. Sad
I was hoping I could move my empty LC around, so that when the right reinforcement roll came, I could add it on to that landing craft already closer to the place I want to disembark.
It makes sense with "assault" orders for example.

But your ruling is perfectly logical so I will stick to that.
      
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Re:Landing Craft (LC) Question: D-Day Landings Mon, 14 July 2014 09:47
It's possible that Richard will chime in and say that you can do what you're hoping, but I doubt it. If you could move your LC all over the board and then load them up, the invasion would be much easier! It also would make the LC starting hexes less important, and more like a suggestion. Sorry to disappoint!

You can always make a house rule for it, but it seems a bit cheap to me. Smile Have fun!

[Mis à jour le: Mon, 14 July 2014 09:48]

      
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Re:Landing Craft (LC) Question: D-Day Landings Mon, 14 July 2014 09:51
Quit2 wrote on Mon, 14 July 2014 00:41

~SNIP
It makes sense with "assault" orders for example.


I'm not sure why you pointed out Assault Orders (which I assume are Assault Cards) as being more helpful for this idea. Don't forget that placing a Reinforcement on an LC does not need an order! You can put them on the board, as long as you have an empty LC, even if you are playing something like Barrage that turn.

Then once the unit is placed on the board, it can't be moved this turn...so an Assault card won't help much with Reinforcements that are just entering the invasion.

But maybe I misunderstood something. If so, you can ignore me! Very Happy

[Mis à jour le: Mon, 14 July 2014 09:52]

      
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Re:Landing Craft (LC) Question: D-Day Landings Mon, 14 July 2014 10:11
Cheap? Rolling Eyes

Maybe it will help if I explain the situation in which I came up with the question.

I was playing Gold beach. Early in the game. My rightmost landing craft was empty.
I had no centre cards, yet 2 assault right cards and cards that moved units on the left that also gave me on the move orders.
My plan: play the left flank cards, using the on the move orders to move centre units to the right, then play the assault right cards.
I wanted to move the empty landing craft to the right flank, so that if a good reinforcement roll came, I could fill the LC, giving me an extra unit on the right flank.

I don't think this is cheap. It's good strategical play to get units to where you have the cards. Good players do it all the time on any scenario. The only difference is that I didn't only want to do it with the units I had, but that I also wanted to allow new reinforcements to arrive in the right section by moving their "spawning point".
      
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Re:Landing Craft (LC) Question: D-Day Landings Mon, 14 July 2014 10:16
rasmussen81 wrote on Mon, 14 July 2014 09:51

Quit2 wrote on Mon, 14 July 2014 00:41

~SNIP
It makes sense with "assault" orders for example.


I'm not sure why you pointed out Assault Orders (which I assume are Assault Cards) as being more helpful for this idea. Don't forget that placing a Reinforcement on an LC does not need an order! You can put them on the board, as long as you have an empty LC, even if you are playing something like Barrage that turn.

Then once the unit is placed on the board, it can't be moved this turn...so an Assault card won't help much with Reinforcements that are just entering the invasion.

But maybe I misunderstood something. If so, you can ignore me! Very Happy

Yes you misunderstood. I meant: if you have an assault card, allowing you to move all your units in a section, you might as well move the empty landing craft into a better position as well (I was still assuming one would be allowed to load them in their new position during subsequent turns, which isn't allowed).

And secondly: you say the reinforcement can't move after it comes into play, but you can put them into play after movement of your other units. In this case, it would be moving the LC first, and then putting the unit into play (again, I was assuming you could load it anywhere). The reinforced unit doesn't move, it's spawning point moved before the reinforcement came into play.
      
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Re:Landing Craft (LC) Question: D-Day Landings Mon, 14 July 2014 10:23
rasmussen81 wrote on Mon, 14 July 2014 09:47

It's possible that Richard will chime in and say that you can do what you're hoping, but I doubt it. If you could move your LC all over the board and then load them up, the invasion would be much easier! It also would make the LC starting hexes less important, and more like a suggestion. Sorry to disappoint!

You can always make a house rule for it, but it seems a bit cheap to me. Smile Have fun!

Could you ask Richard? Giving him my example? (gold beach)

It doesn't make that landing so much easier, and doesn't diminish the importance of the starting hexes: don't forget you'll only put one unit on the moved LC. Once you load that one off onto the beach, you're back to the LC starting location.

The only difference is this:
You're taking a head start on bringing one reinforcement to the right landing spot. You don't have to wait for the right reinforcement roll to start moving. (which basically only reduces the impact of luck on the reinforcement rolls).

[Mis à jour le: Mon, 14 July 2014 10:25]

      
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Re:Landing Craft (LC) Question: D-Day Landings Mon, 14 July 2014 11:30
Quit2 wrote on Mon, 14 July 2014 03:41

It makes perfect sense.

It's just not the answer I wanted to hear. Sad
I was hoping I could move my empty LC around, so that when the right reinforcement roll came, I could add it on to that landing craft already closer to the place I want to disembark.
It makes sense with "assault" orders for example.

But your ruling is perfectly logical so I will stick to that.


Do not forget that if 2 adjacent beach sections are cleared that reinforcements may be placed on a any empty coastline hex in those cleared sections (no batteries required - I mean no LC - lol).

So if you want more flexibilty in placing reinforcing units, clear the beaches Smile
      
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Re:Landing Craft (LC) Question: D-Day Landings Mon, 14 July 2014 11:38
Quit2 wrote on Mon, 14 July 2014 04:23

rasmussen81 wrote on Mon, 14 July 2014 09:47

It's possible that Richard will chime in and say that you can do what you're hoping, but I doubt it. If you could move your LC all over the board and then load them up, the invasion would be much easier! It also would make the LC starting hexes less important, and more like a suggestion. Sorry to disappoint!

You can always make a house rule for it, but it seems a bit cheap to me. Smile Have fun!

Could you ask Richard? Giving him my example? (gold beach)

It doesn't make that landing so much easier, and doesn't diminish the importance of the starting hexes: don't forget you'll only put one unit on the moved LC. Once you load that one off onto the beach, you're back to the LC starting location.

The only difference is this:
You're taking a head start on bringing one reinforcement to the right landing spot. You don't have to wait for the right reinforcement roll to start moving. (which basically only reduces the impact of luck on the reinforcement rolls).


I do not think you will see a change in this one. The LCs had certain assigned loading points (those LC icons on the map). There are no restrictions on where any LCs off load. However, it usually is best to head right for a coastline hex to do so as soon as possible.
      
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Re:Landing Craft (LC) Question: D-Day Landings Tue, 15 July 2014 21:14
I just got a reply from Richard Borg. He's traveling right now and can't get over to the forums but he confirmed that in the D-Day Landings, the LC can only be loaded when they are on the corresponding (marked) hex.

Sorry, Quit2, but you'll have to load your troops before moving the LC around the map. Or move them back onto the marked hex before you can load them.

Don't forget, though, that gaining Reinforcements is after the Movement phase, so if your LC is off the hex, you could move it back before loading it...if you have an order for it.

Also, don't forget that when an LC unloads its troops, you can place it back on any empty Loading hex...so if you have a choice you could place it where it will help you the most.

[Mis à jour le: Tue, 15 July 2014 21:23]

      
    
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