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--JP
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Beyond D-Day Tue, 15 July 2014 01:16
Not that the 'new game smell' has faded from my copy...

This type of product could re-energize M44 sales.

What about Kursk... or Stalingrad getting the D-Day treatment?

Put some of those other units to work: Snipers, Mines, Cavalry, Engineers (not just having them, but _using_ them)

Anyway, just placing my vote for the next D-Day.

Have to have one for each theatre... at least
      
Almilcar
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Re:Beyond D-Day Tue, 15 July 2014 07:52
--JP wrote on Tue, 15 July 2014 01:16

Not that the 'new game smell' has faded from my copy...

This type of product could re-energize M44 sales.

What about Kursk... or Stalingrad getting the D-Day treatment?

Put some of those other units to work: Snipers, Mines, Cavalry, Engineers (not just having them, but _using_ them)

Anyway, just placing my vote for the next D-Day.

Have to have one for each theatre... at least


I agree. Eastern and Pacific deserve their own D-Day expansion.
      
Aussie_Digger
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Re:Beyond D-Day Tue, 15 July 2014 08:56
While the D Day expansion looks great, I think id rather see more overlord and some Overthrough maps, like in the spirit of the first series.
      
Quit2
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Re:Beyond D-Day Tue, 15 July 2014 09:47
The D-Day expansion contains 5 possible overthrough maps.

I'm all for some more 6 map expansions. Indeed, Kursk and Stalingrad look like nice candidates.
      
Aussie_Digger
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Re:Beyond D-Day Tue, 15 July 2014 13:53
Quit2 wrote on Tue, 15 July 2014 17:17

The D-Day expansion contains 5 possible overthrough maps.




I understand that I just feel some of the overthrough scenario setups are not going to be very fun for some FG's due to the inital setups and where the objectives and beaches are. If looks to be geared more for everyone to have their own map.

I would just like to see some more overlord (and Overthrough) maps made for that style (I found the original serise did this very well).

      
Antoi
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Re:Beyond D-Day Tue, 15 July 2014 14:48
--JP wrote on Tue, 15 July 2014 01:16

Not that the 'new game smell' has faded from my copy...

This type of product could re-energize M44 sales.

What about Kursk... or Stalingrad getting the D-Day treatment?

Put some of those other units to work: Snipers, Mines, Cavalry, Engineers (not just having them, but _using_ them)

Anyway, just placing my vote for the next D-Day.

Have to have one for each theatre... at least


Kursk seems more the same scale as Normandy. Stalingrad can be done, but scale is much smaller, so you there will be alot of city hexes. On a big map as the extended breaktroughs, this costs a lot of movement..... But now I Think about it, seems interesting to play Laughing .

[Mis à jour le: Tue, 15 July 2014 16:14]

      
Quit2
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Re:Beyond D-Day Tue, 15 July 2014 17:00
You could do 6 regular breakthrough decks, or 5 for that matter. It doesn't have to be exactly like Operation Neptune.
      
Sgt Storm
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Re:Beyond D-Day Tue, 15 July 2014 22:30
Oh please, DOW, don't do this sort of expansion again!

As great as D-Day looks, its not an expansion for the average player.

Returning to the battle map series would be a far better idea IMO.
      
Antoi
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Re:Beyond D-Day Wed, 16 July 2014 08:39
Quit2 wrote on Tue, 15 July 2014 17:00

You could do 6 regular breakthrough decks, or 5 for that matter. It doesn't have to be exactly like Operation Neptune.


We could ofcourse be brave enough to make one of our own...... Rolling Eyes
      
Quit2
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Re:Beyond D-Day Wed, 16 July 2014 11:31
Antoi wrote on Wed, 16 July 2014 08:39

Quit2 wrote on Tue, 15 July 2014 17:00

You could do 6 regular breakthrough decks, or 5 for that matter. It doesn't have to be exactly like Operation Neptune.


We could ofcourse be brave enough to make one of our own...... Rolling Eyes


Signing on for duty.
      
--JP
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Re:Beyond D-Day Wed, 16 July 2014 13:47
stalingrad map...with modified tunnel rules...

ah, the days of Red Barricades (ASL)
      
LooneyLlama
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Re:Beyond D-Day Wed, 16 July 2014 15:04
I did an Overlord Stalingrad scenario that plays pretty well. I made it where each single map could be played online. I also did an urban scenario where you could have units pop up on marked hexes like they were in tunnels(like Japanese units). Maybe I'll do a 3 map breakthrough of Stalingrad using all the upgrades possible. If you fellows have any different requests, let me know. I would love to give it a try.

Eric
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Beyond D-Day Wed, 16 July 2014 16:37
Sgt Storm wrote on Tue, 15 July 2014 13:30

Oh please, DOW, don't do this sort of expansion again!

As great as D-Day looks, its not an expansion for the average player.

Returning to the battle map series would be a far better idea IMO.


I find this comment interesting. What is it about the D-Day Landings expansion that you don't like compared with the Battle Map series? Is it that fact that these are Extended Breakthrough maps and you prefer the Overlord format?

The D-Day Landings expansion is certainly more value for your money since you get so many more set-up options, so I'm interested to hear why you prefer a return to the Battle Maps.
      
50th
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Re:Beyond D-Day Wed, 16 July 2014 17:20
The problem I see, is without separate decks of BT cards being available, the only players able to take advantage of an expansion like this is those that game with a group. My other players do not own any memoir stuff, except one who owns the base game and Eastern Front. If you play solo or in smaller groups without more players bringing their cards and figures, it is very hard or impossible to ever play the entire six map game. I have it on order because this is one of my favorite battles of WWII. My best friend, who plays, does not like that the rules keep changing when new products come out (early war vs late war SWA, Shore hexes, ect). He also don't like the new supported infantry and armor rules. Whereas I am a lot more flexible, but I do wish they wouldn't change the rules once they are in print and we have the card with that rule on it.
I would like to see more OL maps with specialized figures (like Tigers in the Snow). It is time for a Pacific Theater OL map with more water hexes and destroyer action.

The next expansion I would like to see is the Italian army or specialized figures (like light tanks).
      
Antoi
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Re:Beyond D-Day Wed, 16 July 2014 18:05
rasmussen81 wrote on Wed, 16 July 2014 16:37

Sgt Storm wrote on Tue, 15 July 2014 13:30

Oh please, DOW, don't do this sort of expansion again!

As great as D-Day looks, its not an expansion for the average player.

Returning to the battle map series would be a far better idea IMO.


I find this comment interesting. What is it about the D-Day Landings expansion that you don't like compared with the Battle Map series? Is it that fact that these are Extended Breakthrough maps and you prefer the Overlord format?

The D-Day Landings expansion is certainly more value for your money since you get so many more set-up options, so I'm interested to hear why you prefer a return to the Battle Maps.


Although is sounds very interesting, let's stay ontopic Very Happy


How about making a operation Bagration map?
Is Stalingrad not to difficult with al the townhexes? I would like to keep a custom/homemade map as simple as possible with few expansions needed.
Every map needs a certain amount of tiles, and not everyone has that many Smile
      
Sgt Storm
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Re:Beyond D-Day Wed, 16 July 2014 19:47
My comment and the response ARE on topic. The title of the thread is Beyond D-Day. I personally would like to see NO additional expansions in this format beyond D-Day. (But, I didn't want my comment to drag into a long discussion.)

In response to Rasmussen, the reason should be pretty obvious. The expansion is hardly standalone. It requires groups of people combining many expansions to get full enjoyment from it. Or it requires an outlay of additional dollars to obtain all expansions required, not to mention additional breakthrough decks which aren't available etc.

As I have mentioned in other threads, I have no problem fielding a 3 map scenario given the amount of Memoir material I own. And I have a table to do it on at home. I'm lucky. And I expect many folks visiting this forum can swing it to. But, the D-Day expansion is for Memoir die-hards, not your average gamer. (I would also add that it is for die-hards that have a lot of time and lots of tables). I want to see the average gamer or even newbie given new expansions they can enjoy. That's only fair.

And yes, I know the D-Day expansion consists of six maps that each be played separately and that is supposedly great value for the money. (Recall we had this discussion before and I happen to disagree - lets not dredge that up again.)

The battlemap expansions generally required nothing more than two base sets of the game to play or the Overlord Expansion.

That's my final word on the subject. I hope DOW does the right thing.

[Mis à jour le: Wed, 16 July 2014 19:51]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:Beyond D-Day Wed, 16 July 2014 20:17
Sgt Storm wrote on Wed, 16 July 2014 10:47

That's my final word on the subject. I hope DOW does the right thing.


Understood and you're right; we don't need to dredge up past discussions about value. I would simply point out two things:

1) DoW has to walk a fine line between providing simple expansions for new players and advanced expansions for current fans.
a) If they only made expansions that use the base game (like all of the nation expansions) the fans who are already into the game want to know why there aren't any that use existing rules and units.
b) If they make expansions that are more advanced (like this one) then people worry about the higher level of entry.
Just because DoW publishes one type of expansion doesn't mean they won't publish the other type in the future.

2) You hope DoW does the right thing...for who? If this expansion does well, the right thing for them would be to make another one like it. If it doesn't sell well, they'll work on something else. Personally, I'm just glad (and impressed) that after 10 years, Richard is coming up with exciting new expansions for us to enjoy! And boy, I sure enjoy this one!! (thought I know that not everyone will enjoy it as much as me)
      
Quit2
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Re:Beyond D-Day Wed, 16 July 2014 20:26
But why make new expansions for the average gamer or newbie, when there is still so much for them already in existence?
A newbie can simply buy the army packs, campaign book 2, the equipment pack or whatever expansion that is still available to enjoy. Those players have enough options. It's the hardcore gamer who owns 2 of every expansion already who needs something new to invest his money in.

And Anton, exactly because Stalingrad would require too many town hexes, it's a good candidate to make a home made, pre-printed version of.
But I would limit it to breakthrough dept, or even market garden battle map depth.
      
Antoi
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Re:Beyond D-Day Wed, 16 July 2014 21:19
aha, pre-printed is another thing Smile that makes it possible. The attack on Stalingrad lasted several months. If we gonna make a battle like this, what part of the attack are we aiming at? From the beginning (thus zooming out, with more plain tiles?) or the battling in the city itself? This is also important for underlying tiles. winter of normal board?

An map like operation Bagration is a more mobile battle, with (tiger) tanks and other vehicles. while stalingrad is more static I think, althoug supported units are great there ofcourse......

Ohhh je choices we have to make..... Laughing

I agree on the depth, that's also the reason why it could be nice if we only use the tiles in a basegame and some expansions so everybody could play it at home.

[Mis à jour le: Wed, 16 July 2014 21:20]

      
Achtung Panzer
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Re:Beyond D-Day Wed, 16 July 2014 23:19
Antoi wrote on Wed, 16 July 2014 20:19

The attack on Stalingrad lasted several months. If we gonna make a battle like this, what part of the attack are we aiming at? From the beginning (thus zooming out, with more plain tiles?) or the battling in the city itself? This is also important for underlying tiles. winter of normal board?


Stalingrad would have to be set during the desperate closing months of close fighting - that is the picture in everyone's mind.

IMHO it's a shame the Stalingrad battle map was not printed as Winter tiles. Summer green doesn't seem right.
      
Aussie_Digger
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Re:Beyond D-Day Thu, 17 July 2014 09:48
Le message n'a pas de contenu

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 17 July 2014 09:53]

      
Aussie_Digger
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Re:Beyond D-Day Thu, 17 July 2014 09:52
Achtung Panzer wrote on Thu, 17 July 2014 06:49



IMHO it's a shame the Stalingrad battle map was not printed as Winter tiles. Summer green doesn't seem right.



But Stalingrad wasn't covered in snow at the times these 2 scenarios took place (SS at the end of summer and RiaF in october, cold but not covered in snow)

Achtung Panzer wrote on Thu, 17 July 2014 06:49


Stalingrad would have to be set during the desperate closing months of close fighting - that is the picture in everyone's mind.



Maybe we might see this in a new battle map series.
      
Achtung Panzer
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Re:Beyond D-Day Thu, 17 July 2014 20:47
I appreciate the point about the timing of the scenario subject AD, just that I anticipated the Stalingrad Battlemap to be set in the snow when it was announced, especially as it heralded the Urban Combat Deck.

Still, I love playing both scenaeios and am not dissapointed.

[Mis à jour le: Thu, 17 July 2014 20:47]

      
Antoi
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Re:Beyond D-Day Thu, 17 July 2014 22:29
Stalingrad is a very good idea.
I can see reinforcements have to cross the wolga or German units arriving by train (instead of LC's).
Russian sniper reinforcements and urban combat cards.
Maybe even the new bomber rules from CB2, and if you rol a star on a town it transfers into city ruin.


Operation Bagration is a more mobile war on a wider front. The use of tanks will be more important. Also like said befor, Tiger tanks, Nebelwerfers and other units can easily be introduced. It also has three spearhead so three boards could be played separate or combined.
      
bdgza
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Re:Beyond D-Day Sat, 19 July 2014 18:09
Or DoW could release an extended BreakThrough mounted board expansion so we can design all those scenarios ourselves. Failing that, it's possible to design OverThrough scenarios for the classic BreakThrough sized boards.
      
armchairprivate
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Re:Beyond D-Day Thu, 24 July 2014 23:37
I like D-Day Landings and would be interested in another such expansion covering a different battle, but I also think that simply having another series of battlemaps in either the regular Overlord format or the new OverThrough format would be nice. The paper maps are great for having less set-up time. This is good for those of us who gather with our gaming friends not just to play M44, but other games as well. Keeps everything moving quickly, while taking the time to set up figures AND terrain tiles does not.

I would suggest this: A criteria for picking out new pre-printed map battles. We all have our favorites and many battles could work, but personally I would like any further battles to meet at least one of the two options (or both ideally):

Option A: The battle has not already been overly covered by existing M44 official scenarios.

Option B: The battle is dynamic in nature, with back-and-forth fighting, and historical instances of both sides on offense and defense.
      
Aussie_Digger
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Re:Beyond D-Day Fri, 25 July 2014 05:49
Antoi wrote on Fri, 18 July 2014 05:59

Stalingrad is a very good idea.
I can see reinforcements have to cross the wolga or German units arriving by train (instead of LC's).
Russian sniper reinforcements and urban combat cards.
Maybe even the new bomber rules from CB2, and if you rol a star on a town it transfers into city ruin.




I think Stalingrad would work very well in this format. Using a total of 4 to maps with the center maps being the city of Stalingrad and the end ones being the flanks of the area of operation (Italians and Romanians)

I could see the maps as being double sided with one side representing the advance in the summer onto Stalingrad with the city itself situated more to the back of the maps. Then having the other side representing the period just before the Russians launched the operation to outflank the Germans in Stalingrad (Winter) with the city area situated a bit more to the center of the maps.

Lots of good ideas for reinforcements, as you suggested the Russians could arrive by train, landing craft (making the Volga river 2 to 3 hexes wide) and even using the factory district to bring in tank reinforcements (since they were being rolled straight off the production line into battle)

I could also see a special reinforcement rule for the Germans in the winter scenario where the Germans have to build up a pool of ready to deploy units (for example the list may consist of 3 regular infantry, 1 elite infantry, 1 engineer, 3 tanks units...or something like that) Then once all units have been rolled for on the list (all German players contribute to the list, also other rolls still might give supply drops and the such), they can then be deployed (using orders) from certain places on the German base line. This force would represent the attempt but Von Manstein to link up with the cut off forces in Stalingrad. So if would be a mass reinforcement that would enter at a variable stage in the battle depending on how quickly the Germans call roll for all the relieving forces.

Also the Urban combat deck and winter deck could be used.
      
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Re:Beyond D-Day Sat, 26 July 2014 01:29
Does this look like what you people had in mind? 5 breakthrough boards. (normal sized breakthrough)
I still need to write out the rules for each board, and then I need someone to make all these maps into nice printable files, and find a place to print them. And all that for a reasonable cost. Shocked Maybe better wait for DoW to release this.

Disclaimer: do not try to make these maps at home, with the terrain tiles. You will most probably be short on certain terrain types Very Happy
(I did not use my normal rule of thumb "less is more".)

http://i57.tinypic.com/25akoqv.png
      
    
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