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VerfasserThema
CrimsonAvenger
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  Wizards - a little boring Tue, 12 May 2009 21:20
Does anyone else find the wizards boring.

The racial abilities all seem inline for everyone else. Dwarves mine, they get bonuses for mines, even when in decline. Tridents are ocean creatures they get bonuses for conquering coastal regions. Ghouls are undead, they keep on going even in decline...the list goes on.

Wizards are made out to be what? smart investors?

They are basically redundant as they are copies of the humans. +1 gold for a certain region.

It's the only flat-out copy of an ability in the game. Dwarves are close, but they are diffrent because the power is still active when in decline.

To fix this, I changed them a little.

They now get only 3 units instead of 5, but they have both the +1 gold for magic regions AND they can conquer any region next to a magic region for 1 less unit. (similiar to giants ability)

now they are unique, albeit by combining 2 powers already in the game. But this way they feel more like powerful wizards, instead of smart investors or something.
      
Magnot
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Re:Wizards - a little boring Wed, 13 May 2009 00:23
Their special power may be very similar to humans, however within a given game Wizards, Humans, and Dwarves will all be aiming for different clusters of regions, so I think the gameplay remains interesting enough.
      
BamH1
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Re:Wizards - a little boring Wed, 13 May 2009 09:01
guest375607 wrote on Wed, 13 May 2009 05:20

Does anyone else find the wizards boring.

They are basically redundant as they are copies of the humans. +1 gold for a certain region.

It's the only flat-out copy of an ability in the game. Dwarves are close, but they are diffrent because the power is still active when in decline.

To fix this, I changed them a little.

They now get only 3 units instead of 5, but they have both the +1 gold for magic regions AND they can conquer any region next to a magic region for 1 less unit.

I must confess i was a little under-whelmed at the wizards. Especially since I imagined powerful mages.

I like your changes, seems more faithful to my idea of what wizards should be capable of. They gain strength from their proximity to regions of power.

An alternate ability to consider could be copied from the underworld special:
Instead of tunneling, in this case it is "teleporting" and the magic symbols become "portals" and are adjacent. It is neat theme wise and is intuitive to most ppls understanding of wizards. Could even throw in the -1 of underworld too or probably better to throw in the original point bonus and leave the -1 off.
Then underworld wizards would almost be as mobile as flying ones. hehe.
      
Xknight2099
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May 2009
Re:Wizards - a little boring Thu, 21 May 2009 22:17
actually there is a very slight difference in the Humans and wizards abilities

The farmland is a terrain type (like mountains, swamp, and forest).

The magic spots are a feature (like underworld and mine )

So the Wizards have the potential to earn 3 gold from spots if they get the right ability.

For example Swamp wizards would get 3 per turn from a swamp with a magic on it.


I still like the idea of giveing them -1 against regions next to magic.
      
mattdm
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  making wizards magical Fri, 12 June 2009 04:55
I agree, the wizards seem a little boring. But I think they should be given something magical, not just an additional duplicate power (like -1 attacks).

So, here's what I thought of while playing tonight:

At the end of a turn in which you conquered a Magic Region, you may swap your Special Power for a new one drawn at random from those hidden in the stack. If there are no Special Power badges left, reshuffle from the discarded ones.


Option: make it "must swap" instead of "may swap".

Unanswered question: does your number of troops change? (It might be most fair to make them change, but is this game about "fair"? And is it worth the extra hassle?)

Also, the intention is that your old special power last for this turn and the new one take effect at the beginning of the next; not sure how to word that.

Another approach would be to make the ability an option at the beginning of any turn in which you hold a Magic Region, but have some associated cost (maybe losing the ability to attack that round, or limiting the number of attacks that round to the number of Magic Regions you hold).

I also like the idea of making the new power selection be one of the visible Special Power badges -- probably with the normal gold cost, but then only the remaining badges shifted up, leaving the Race banners in place. This adds some chaos, which seems in the spirit of the game, particularly because it's manipulatable chaos. (Which also seems very wizardly.)

Thoughts?

(PS: this is totally a public-domain idea. Please feel free to take and improve.)
      
KarmanMonkey
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Re:Wizards - a little boring Sun, 14 June 2009 20:26
My thought is that the wizards may be a bit dull, but they seem more the scholarly mage type... The kind that never leave their ivory towers. That's why we also have sorcerers ;-D
      
mensoalting
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December 2007
Re:Wizards - a little boring Sun, 05 July 2009 18:34
We like these above Wizard ideas and will give them a try.

How about something like this:
*For each Magic Region your Wizards occupy,
1)collect +1 bonus Victory coin
2)convert one of your In Decline tokens into an active Wizard token

We haven't decided if it works better, to have the conversion take place a) at the start of your turn as you Ready Your Troops, or b) at the end of your turn as you are Redeploying. Option b) allows our wizards to get more benefits. But we worry that it might make the Wizard a little too strong so option a) allows for the opponents to attack before we get to use it. If we stick with option b), we might need to reduce the Race Banner strength from 5 to 3-4.

Any thoughts?
      
Zoli2
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Re:Wizards - a little boring Mon, 06 July 2009 19:15
1. If you can convert, you need more Wizard token.
2. You can convert your In Decline token, or the opponent's tokens?
3. What do you think about adjacent regions? Or all regions?
      
mensoalting
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Re:Wizards - a little boring Mon, 06 July 2009 21:18
Zoli wrote on Mon, 06 July 2009 13:15

1. If you can convert, you need more Wizard token.
2. You can convert your In Decline token, or the opponent's tokens?
3. What do you think about adjacent regions? Or all regions?


1. We've tried increasing the total Wizard pool to 13 by placing a little removable sticker on three Lost Tribes tokens. And then play so that this maximum can't be exceeded.
2. Convert your own In Decline token. Upfront it is simply exchanging one victory point for another, but you now get any benefits associated with your Special Power in that region and you can now conquer outward from it.
3. We liked the option of converting one of your In Decline tokens anywhere, without worrying about adjacency (as mentioned in #2, you can then conquer in regions adjacent to the newly converted region.
      
BamH1
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Re:Wizards - a little boring Tue, 14 July 2009 16:50
mensoalting wrote on Tue, 07 July 2009 05:18

Zoli wrote on Mon, 06 July 2009 13:15

1. If you can convert, you need more Wizard token.
2. You can convert your In Decline token, or the opponent's tokens?
3. What do you think about adjacent regions? Or all regions?


1. We've tried increasing the total Wizard pool to 13 by placing a little removable sticker on three Lost Tribes tokens. And then play so that this maximum can't be exceeded.
2. Convert your own In Decline token. Upfront it is simply exchanging one victory point for another, but you now get any benefits associated with your Special Power in that region and you can now conquer outward from it.
3. We liked the option of converting one of your In Decline tokens anywhere, without worrying about adjacency (as mentioned in #2, you can then conquer in regions adjacent to the newly converted region.

Sounds more like a necromancer's ability to me but i like it. You could reduce the starting number and see if they can build momentum. Would be better to allow it anywhere after attacking so that you can fortify but not attack from there until others have a right of reply. It could promote planning ahead too, because you could deliberately grab some magic regions with the declined race while it was active and then get other ones with the wizards and convert the decline on them too.
      
    
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