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edralla
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Flying Sorcerers -- another situational query Thu, 30 April 2009 18:13
We believe Flying essentially makes all spaces adjacent, but otherwise does not remove other race restrictions. For example, Sorcerers must still enter on a board edge and may only use their ability when they could otherwise legally do so (e.g. for Following Conquests, and for a space with a single opposing token).

The Sorcerer ability requires the single opponent token to be in an adjacent region. Adjacency is a requirement for Following Conquests (pg 4 of the rules), not for First Conquests. Therefore, this implies that the Sorcerer ability is a Following Conquest ability -- they must already be on the board.

It follows then, if Flying is in affect, it only relieves the adjacency requirement and can only be used on Following Conquests -- it has no effect on the First Conquest. The Sorcerers must have a foothold to use it. Is this correct?

      
eric
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Re:Flying Sorcerers -- another situational query Thu, 30 April 2009 19:21
Actually flying does not make all spaces adjacent. what it does is allow the race who has this power to ignore the adjacency rules for all conquests (including the first one). A flying race may thus enter the board anywhere.

In the book, when we talk about Halflings being the only ones capable of entering the board anywhere for their first conquest, we should have made it clear that while it was the only race able to do so natively, a race with the flying power would also be able to.

      
TDiggity
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Re:Flying Sorcerers -- another situational query Fri, 01 May 2009 05:47
Say a players active race is non flying sorcerers.

It is First Conquest, and the player has no sorcerers on the board. An opponent has a single token of his active race in a border region.

Can the sorcerer enter the board using his power on that token ?

The rules imply "no", but that seems unnecessarily fiddly.


[Aktualisiert am: Fri, 01 May 2009 14:56]

      
Belisarius
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Re:Flying Sorcerers -- another situational query Fri, 01 May 2009 14:54
So Eric's reply seems to indicate that once Flying Sorcerers are on the board they can cherry-pick single tokens from each opponent every turn.

Of course, with an ability like that they're going to get piled on by every opponent, too...
      
TDiggity
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Re:Flying Sorcerers -- another situational query Fri, 01 May 2009 14:58
Belisarius wrote on Fri, 01 May 2009 07:54

So Eric's reply seems to indicate that once Flying Sorcerers are on the board they can cherry-pick single tokens from each opponent every turn.


Not just on the board. A flying sorcerer can use its power to ENTER the board anywhere too !


      
Sseluric
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Re:Flying Sorcerers -- another situational query Sat, 06 June 2009 20:25
This is not true. A Sorcerer can only use it's power if an opponent has a single token in a space adjacent to a space containing a sorcerer. If you are flying to a space and there are no sorcerers in an adjacent space then you cannot use their special. Flying sorcerers could not cherry pick any single tokens on the board. Nor could they use their power to enter the board. The flying power only lets you conquer spaces that arn't adjacent to ones you occupy.

[Aktualisiert am: Sat, 06 June 2009 20:25]

      
Antoine
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Re:Flying Sorcerers -- another situational query Sun, 07 June 2009 13:13
Sseluric écrit le Sat, 06 June 2009 20:25

This is not true. A Sorcerer can only use it's power if an opponent has a single token in a space adjacent to a space containing a sorcerer. If you are flying to a space and there are no sorcerers in an adjacent space then you cannot use their special.


Yes you can. A Flying race ignores the adjacency rules for all conquests, including the first one.

Quote:

Flying sorcerers could not cherry pick any single tokens on the board.


Yes they can, because they ignore the adjacency rule thanks to their Flying Special Power.

Quote:

Nor could they use their power to enter the board.


"Flying" allows you to :
- ignore the adjacency rules;
- enter the board anywhere.

As a result, Flying Sorcerers may use their power to enter the board. Non-flying Sorcerers may not do that though, because they have to apply the adjacency rules. And as long as they have no region, no region is adjacent to them.

Quote:

The flying power only lets you conquer spaces that arn't adjacent to ones you occupy.


Precisely. Just consider conversions as conquests. It helps clarifying most of the situations.
      
Sseluric
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Re:Flying Sorcerers -- another situational query Mon, 08 June 2009 17:20
Antoine wrote on Sun, 07 June 2009 07:13


Yes you can. A Flying race ignores the adjacency rules for all conquests, including the first one.



So then flying Giants can also use their special on all conquests if they control any mountains?

Antoine wrote on Sun, 07 June 2009 07:13

"Flying" allows you to :
- ignore the adjacency rules;
- enter the board anywhere.

As a result, Flying Sorcerers may use their power to enter the board. Non-flying Sorcerers may not do that though, because they have to apply the adjacency rules. And as long as they have no region, no region is adjacent to them.



According to this you are saying that flying not only overrides the need to be next to a sorcerers' space but that none need exist at all. According to the above ruling flying giants would be able to enter the board using their special as well.

I have seen many posts saying that flying Sorcerers can use their power but other flying races (ie Giants) cannot. That doesn't make sense when in the case of the Giants it's the same situation. Both say that they get a special power if they are conquering a space adjacent to a particular space they control.

I just wanna be sure we are playing the game the way, you, the game designers intended it to be played.

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 08 June 2009 17:22]

      
Magnot
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Re:Flying Sorcerers -- another situational query Mon, 08 June 2009 20:21
Sseluric wrote on Mon, 08 June 2009 11:20

So then flying Giants can also use their special on all conquests if they control any mountains?


Flying giants may attack any territory if they have flying, but the conquest discount still only applies if a territory is adjacent to a mountain. Flying lifts the Adjacency requirement to make a conquest, but it does not make all spaces adjacent. The sorcerer special ability is considered a conquest, so it "stacks" with flying. The Giants special ability is not a conquest, it is a discount on a conquest, hence it does not "stack" with flying.

flying giants are discussed further in this thread:

http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?th=17200&start=0
      
csdmmnt
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Re:Flying Sorcerers -- another situational query Wed, 10 June 2009 18:45
Wow ... so much fail.

Page 11 of the rules states for flying:

"... allows you to conquer a non-adjacent region."

Says nothing about flying make all regions adjacent. In fact it states that they remain NON-adjacent.

So no, flying sorcerers CAN NOT use their special power on a single token any where on the board. Only as stated above, against single tokens ADJACENT to a sorcerer token.
      
Magnot
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Re:Flying Sorcerers -- another situational query Wed, 10 June 2009 23:41
csdmmnt wrote on Wed, 10 June 2009 12:45

Wow ... so much fail.

Page 11 of the rules states for flying:

"... allows you to conquer a non-adjacent region."

Says nothing about flying make all regions adjacent. In fact it states that they remain NON-adjacent.

So no, flying sorcerers CAN NOT use their special power on a single token any where on the board. Only as stated above, against single tokens ADJACENT to a sorcerer token.


If you refer to the FAQ sticky and previous official DoW posts on this topic, you will see that yes, flying sorcerers can use their special ability to conquer non-adjacent spaces. I think the basis of the rule lies in classifying the Sorcerer special ability as a conquest in itself, hence it benefits from flying.

Here are a few links to the relevant threads:

http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?th=16839&start=0
(refer to the second post in particular)

and also:

http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?th=17177&start=0
(the pertinent bit is about halfway through the first post)

[Aktualisiert am: Wed, 10 June 2009 23:41]

      
csdmmnt
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Re:Flying Sorcerers -- another situational query Thu, 11 June 2009 19:20
Sorcerers
Quote:

Once per turn and per opponent, your Sorcerers can conquer a Region by substituting one of your opponent's Active tokens with one of your own taken from the storage tray. If there are no more tokens in the storage tray, then you cannot conquer a new Region in this way.

The token your Sorcerers replaces must be the only race token in its Region (A single Troll token with its Troll's Lair is considered alone for this purpose; likewise for a Race token in a Fortress or on a Mountain, these markers provide no protection to a lone Race token) and that Region must be adjacent to one of your Sorcerers'. Place the substituted opponent's Race token back into the storage tray.



Flying
Quote:

You may conquer any Region of the map except Seas. These Regions do not need to be adjacent or contiguous to ones you already occupy.


It is my opinion that "that Region must be adjacent to one of your Sorcerers'." is not satisfied by the Special Power: Flying since flying simply allows you to conquer any Region ... but also, for me only perhaps, clearly states that regions are not considered adjacent simply because you are flying.

I think way too much emphasis is being put on the opening sentence ("Once per turn and per opponent, your Sorcerers can conquer a Region") that is then more fully qualified with the remaining content of the special powers definition/ability.

Several Special Powers change if you emphasis one specific sentence or even the opening sentence over the remaining content of the Special Power's definition.
      
    
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