Zug um Zug – Frankreich Zug um Zug – Frankreich

Forum

Suche
Forum » T2R Competitive Play - English » 2015 competitions : feedback needed
Anzeigen: Heutige Nachrichten 
  
VerfasserThema
Sysyphus
Senior Member
T2R Nation Cup 2014 Winner

Fan-Seite
Nachrichten: 3450
Registriert:
December 2007
2015 competitions : feedback needed Sat, 08 November 2014 04:05
Hello,

I need some feedback regarding alternative maps.

1. AAT
The tournament itself is not very successful but the format still interests a few players.
Here's a suggestion to have more AAT matches played during the year without any constraint of time or any kind of commitment.
Ladder is low maintenance.

Create a ladder all through the year. We start the ladder according to AAT TELO for the players registered.

  • Players can challenge any player above them in the ladder within a 5-rank range.
  • A player can not refuse a challenge.
  • If the lower ranked wins his match, players trade their rank. If not (including in case of tie), they both remain at their original rank.
  • Players have to take at least one challenge a month. If not they are sent at the bottom of the ladder.
  • A player can drop out and return later in the year at the bottom of the ladder.
  • Ladder is reset on Dec. 31st
  • Matches count for TELO. Can be unranked on DoW ELO.
  • Ladder would offer some training for Fusion.

    Question 1 :
    Is the ladder format interesting ?

    A. Yes
    B. No


    2. Regarding Asia and Swiss maps
    We currently have SMC and AMC : KO format only offers 1 to 4 competitive matches on those maps. We could do better.
    To me, there's no question, Asia draws more interest than Swiss.

    Question 2 : What's best ?

    C. We keep it as it is. KO for both.

    D. An AAT-format for both maps instead of KO (Short Round Robin + short KO). A bit more games for both.

    E. Asia becomes an anchor map with the US and Euro. And Swiss becomes a ladder map like AAT.

    If E:
    E1 : A KO tournament and a short League for Asia map and ladder for Swiss.
    E2 :Just an AAT-style (RR+KO) for Asia and ladder for Swiss.

    If E:
    F1 : We should alternate every year. 2015 : Swiss ladder, Asia anchor; 2016 : Asia ladder, Swiss anchor.
    F2 : Asia is clearly more appealing than Swiss.

    Ladders would help promote AAT and Swiss better than a summer format, and 1-round KO tournament. That also offers good and more regular training for Fusion.

    [Aktualisiert am: Sat, 08 November 2014 04:08]

  •       
    AGT-Schachus
    Senior Member

    Fan-Seite
    Nachrichten: 129
    Registriert:
    November 2005
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Sat, 08 November 2014 08:38
    My Answers:
    A( but I wont play AAT either way, so not so important, what I think about the format)
    E->E2(maybe E1 in the future)->F2.
          
    SMP-Lucullupus
    Senior Member

    Fan-Seite
    Nachrichten: 873
    Registriert:
    July 2008
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Sat, 08 November 2014 09:37
    Hello,

    1.) A - yes, but not so strict - to protect long holidays, every player should have the possibility to announce 1 month without playing.
    2.) D or F1 - I like Swiss map too. Smile
          
    RUS_Lexx
    Senior Member

    Fan-Seite
    Nachrichten: 259
    Registriert:
    February 2008
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Sat, 08 November 2014 12:56
    My preferences: to keep the same formats as the last year
    1) B
    2) C
          
    RUS Sivorro
    Senior Member
    T2R Multi-Player Winter Championship 2014 Winner

    Nachrichten: 1362
    Registriert:
    April 2014
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Sat, 08 November 2014 15:07
    1) A
    2) C
          
    BTB benny
    Senior Member
    Indian Passport

    Nachrichten: 311
    Registriert:
    May 2013
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Sat, 08 November 2014 15:14
    1) A
    2) E , dea1 sounds good Very Happy

    [Aktualisiert am: Sat, 08 November 2014 16:19]

          
    FLOP_dea1
    Senior Member
    T2R Nation Cup 2007 Winner

    Nachrichten: 2283
    Registriert:
    September 2005
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Sat, 08 November 2014 16:14
    A

    for the other question the letters/numbers don't describe my opinion.
    I would treat Asia and Swiss equally.
    I think only a KO tournament doesn't make sense (= half the players play just 1 single tournament match per year).

    Options:
    dea1: League for both (smaller Groups than US, 8 Players/Group seems OK) but no KO event
    dea2: Tournament with RR qualifier then KO. I'd make the RR long (groups of 6) and the KO short (starting with QF is enough, no need to qualify half the field for the prize that the other half gets less matches)
          
    Qorlas
    Senior Member
    Faster Than Mongolian Horse

    Fan-Seite
    Nachrichten: 2043
    Registriert:
    January 2008
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Sat, 08 November 2014 16:24
    A

    I like both dea1 and dea2. I feel them the better options for both Swiss and Asia
          
    Sysyphus
    Senior Member
    T2R Nation Cup 2014 Winner

    Fan-Seite
    Nachrichten: 3450
    Registriert:
    December 2007
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Sat, 08 November 2014 17:25
    First, thanks for the feedback, very useful.

    2 Leagues implies that that they are played during NC.
    Having Leagues competing against each other will tap in the pool of players available.

    Treating both maps equally ?
    We could adapt F1
    Quote:


    F1 : We should alternate every year. 2015 : Swiss ladder, Asia tournament; 2016 : Asia ladder, Swiss tournament.


    2 map-tournaments may be hard to fit in the calendar without adding commitments and therefore scheduling issues.

    [Aktualisiert am: Sat, 08 November 2014 17:29]

          
    Qorlas
    Senior Member
    Faster Than Mongolian Horse

    Fan-Seite
    Nachrichten: 2043
    Registriert:
    January 2008
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Sat, 08 November 2014 17:37
    leere Nachricht

    [Aktualisiert am: Sat, 08 November 2014 17:38]

          
    FLOP_dea1
    Senior Member
    T2R Nation Cup 2007 Winner

    Nachrichten: 2283
    Registriert:
    September 2005
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Sat, 08 November 2014 17:57
    Sysyphus - Pommard wrote on Sat, 08 November 2014 17:25


    2 Leagues implies that that they are played during NC.
    Having Leagues competing against each other will tap in the pool of players available.



    I wouldn't play anything in parallel to NC, that period shall really be reserved for our main event.
    Parallel to Euroleague I'd see no problem.
    US League already runs in parallel with US-Multi, FC and SPWC/EMC and we see no problem there.
    So why shouldn't it be possible to have Euroleague in parallel with the rest (in whatever sequence)?
          
    Sysyphus
    Senior Member
    T2R Nation Cup 2014 Winner

    Fan-Seite
    Nachrichten: 3450
    Registriert:
    December 2007
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Sat, 08 November 2014 18:29
    AAA_dea1 wrote on Sat, 08 November 2014 17:57


    I wouldn't play anything in parallel to NC, that period shall really be reserved for our main event.
    Parallel to Euroleague I'd see no problem.
    US League already runs in parallel with US-Multi, FC and SPWC/EMC and we see no problem there.


    Euroleague was already overlapping with SPWC EMC Multi Euro and AAT.
    If we put AAT into a ladder, but add Multi Asia, Asia League and Swiss League, then we will 3/4 AAT-like registrations of 15 players.
          
    Qorlas
    Senior Member
    Faster Than Mongolian Horse

    Fan-Seite
    Nachrichten: 2043
    Registriert:
    January 2008
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Sat, 08 November 2014 18:39
    but what about to play EMC in February with Swiss and SPWC in spring with Asia?
          
    Sysyphus
    Senior Member
    T2R Nation Cup 2014 Winner

    Fan-Seite
    Nachrichten: 3450
    Registriert:
    December 2007
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Sat, 08 November 2014 18:45
    Probably better to have an Asia and Swiss Tournament running before Fusion to create some sort of training.
          
    Qorlas
    Senior Member
    Faster Than Mongolian Horse

    Fan-Seite
    Nachrichten: 2043
    Registriert:
    January 2008
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Sat, 08 November 2014 18:59
    Yes, but could be a trouble to have them run at the same time? They probably will dig in the same pool of players
          
    MaximouR - Ginglet
    Senior Member
    Lucky Bastard

    Fan-Seite
    Nachrichten: 660
    Registriert:
    May 2003
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Sun, 09 November 2014 08:31
    Simple ladder system have many interest but... the life of top step of ladder is very hard ! Laughing Very Happy

    The player at top of ladder can't challenge, because :
    Quote:

    Players can challenge any player above them in the ladder within a 5-rank range.


    As the first can't challenge and if nobody challenge the first...
    Quote:

    Players have to take at least one challenge a month. If not they are sent at the bottom of the ladder.


    Opposite... How to do for not flooding the Top of ladder.
    How to avoid perpetually and simultaneously 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th players challenge the first ?
    Quote:

    A player can not refuse a challenge.


    which would still be the first Rolling Eyes Embarassed



    What I propose...

    Challenging system have to be resolved with a "wish" system by pm managed by a organizer (TD?) every period (to be defined but half month is good enough).

    Half month permit to challenge someone and to be challenged too in period, so an average of 1 match a week.

    Each player have to post at TD if he (or she) is IN / OUT for the period (by default without message : OUT) and if he (or she) wants challenge someone with the wish list of challenge (first player may challenge lower players too). With this list, TD resolve wish conflicts with priority rules (to be defined, perhaps less difference ranking or/and an avoiding of same previous meeting).

    IN /OUT for protecting holidays.

    Wish list to protect flooding and resolving double, triple... challenges.

    The last 2 or three periods can't be OUT to avoid rank protective OUT.

    And we have to think about chained challenge...
    1st challenged by 5th and 5th challenged by 10th.
    What about when at the end of turn, 1st loosed versus 5th and 5th loosed versus 10th.
    I think 1st becomes 5th, 5th rests at 5th and 10th becomes 5th too but if 10st looses versus 11th, 10th rests at 10th.

    This system avoid flooding and the first player has to defend his (or her) place once a month.

    [Aktualisiert am: Sun, 09 November 2014 08:39]

          
    AGT-Schachus
    Senior Member

    Fan-Seite
    Nachrichten: 129
    Registriert:
    November 2005
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Sun, 09 November 2014 08:57
    I would say, that you get less than 5 places challenge at the very top, to make the rating there a little more stable. My proposal would be: additional to the 5 places, the lower ranked player cannot have more than douled rank of the higher, if he wants to challenge. This way first could only be challenged by 2nd, 2nd until 4th place and so on. For the 5th and lower, they could still be challenged be the next 5.
          
    TuS yaelka
    Senior Member
    T2R Nation Cup 2011 Winner

    Fan-Seite
    Nachrichten: 458
    Registriert:
    July 2005
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Sun, 09 November 2014 09:06
    1
    not sure if the ladder format is interesting for AAT. If same amount of players participate at ladder-format as have played AAT tournament last years (around 15) you need 3 challenges from last to first place!

    So IF ladder-system with just few players, better let them challenge just 3 or maybe 4 places above.

    I personally liked the tournament System for AAT or maybe a small league.

    Concerning ladder-system in general: I think

    Every challenge should be done in the Forum, so that everyone can see.
    Then: first come - first serve. An already challenged player can't be challenged by another one before having played his/her match.
    A challenging player can't be challenged by a lower ranked player before having played his/her match, where he/she's the challenger


    2. D or dea2
          
    Sysyphus
    Senior Member
    T2R Nation Cup 2014 Winner

    Fan-Seite
    Nachrichten: 3450
    Registriert:
    December 2007
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Sun, 09 November 2014 19:41
    Well the ladder is there mainly to offer more games to players. Most players can get 8-12 matches + Fusion throughout instead of 3 + Fusion. It would also help to fuel TELO.
    Ladder is there to give a small incentive rather than establishing a defnitive hierarchy.
    Maybe we could add a small KO (SF and Final) at the end of the year according to TELO.

    If you reduce the range of challenge to 3 or 4, then it'll actually turn into a range of 2 or 3. There's no real point in playing against the same opponent 2 months in a row.
    A shorter range of challenges will reduce the chances to see a player come back in the ladder. 3 challenges to go back to the top seems pretty reasonable.

    Challenge from the bottom would prevent some players to hand pick their opponent to stay at the top. If you are at the top of the ladder, you should be able to take a challenge from anybody.
    If a player is not challenged, maybe we could allow to challenge a player 3-rank below yourself.

    And yes, everything open in the forum.


          
    Sysyphus
    Senior Member
    T2R Nation Cup 2014 Winner

    Fan-Seite
    Nachrichten: 3450
    Registriert:
    December 2007
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Mon, 10 November 2014 05:20
    If ladder is successful, we can still organize an AAT tournament in the summer.
    And why not in 2016, create a BC ladder or a mix of 1910 format.
          
    Sysyphus
    Senior Member
    T2R Nation Cup 2014 Winner

    Fan-Seite
    Nachrichten: 3450
    Registriert:
    December 2007
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Sun, 16 November 2014 07:30

    Here's a proposal for a 2015 calendar.
    It includes the Swiss and Asia tournaments before Fusion to offer some training. We will probably switch from KO to an AAT-style with small groups and small KO.
    Multi Asia is the only new feature with the ladder for AAT.
    Multi Euro and Asia can still be moved according to the TD's availabilities.

    We will try to organize more single-night events for the sake of fun. More QTs, more Survivor, maybe some Speedy Tournaments like in the past.
    Any player can feel free to organize a QT, a Survivor Night or whatever single night events provided it is not conflicting with anything else.

    http://s4.postimg.org/5jzwzoeul/calendrier_2015.png
    http://s29.postimg.org/s5nb6m41z/calendrier_2015.png

    There's an open space for the summer. It could be :
    a. Another AAT tournament if ladder participation is conclusive
    b. A world map tournament from dandee. Idea that can be developed here.
    c. Anything new, out-of-the-box, competitive or not. Feel free to make any proposals.

    You have that 2-month window available for you guys, get creative !
          
    Knockando
    Senior Member
    Vainqueur Multi-Player Winter Championship AdR 2010

    Nachrichten: 2040
    Registriert:
    January 2010
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Sun, 16 November 2014 08:53
    I like this calendar.

    and for sure we need to play more swiss and asia 2 players, so not too small groups Smile
          
    Elric - Sancerre
    Senior Member
    T2R Nation Cup 2013 Winner

    Fan-Seite
    Nachrichten: 1880
    Registriert:
    May 2005
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Sun, 16 November 2014 15:34
    Following the general ideas of last years, this calendar is quite balanced, and offers many tournaments for all types of players !

    But like I also already said last year, I think the period mid-November / mid-December is a bit too full, or busy.

    Please, don't start New TTR League too early !
    Starting registration in Wk50 if you want, but beginning of the matches (+ Opening QT) is probably better in January... don't forget also it's holiday Xmas season Wink

    Only my 2 cents, as usual Cool
          
    AWT Morientes ZL
    Senior Member

    Fan-Seite
    Nachrichten: 447
    Registriert:
    December 2012
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Sun, 16 November 2014 15:48
    For my opinion - Multi Eu and Fusion in same time no good, one TAG game = around 3 hours and multi evening around 3 hours + liga 2er is a bit too full for same time .
          
    Sysyphus
    Senior Member
    T2R Nation Cup 2014 Winner

    Fan-Seite
    Nachrichten: 3450
    Registriert:
    December 2007
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Sun, 16 November 2014 17:29
    Morientes ZL wrote on Sun, 16 November 2014 15:48

    For my opinion - Multi Eu and Fusion in same time no good, one TAG game = around 3 hours and multi evening around 3 hours + liga 2er is a bit too full for same time .


    Well, I just threw multi euro somewhere randomly. Dandee has to choose his best time to direct the tournament. It could start for instance in Feb during Asia KO, and finals during Fusion.

    Elric


    But like I also already said last year, I think the period mid-November / mid-December is a bit too full, or busy.


    We could not start Multi tournament earlier in November because we had to revamp the rules. Next year, it'd be nice to get the multi US tournament done by Xmas.
    Fun is really here for fun. We can be more lenient with the schedule, although deadlines are needed as last year's (bad)example showed us.

    Since the end of NC Round Robin, the lobby is back to dead activity. A good time for Multi 1st round and for FUN.

    Elric - Sancerre wrote on Sun, 16 November 2014 15:34


    Starting registration in Wk50 if you want, but beginning of the matches (+ Opening QT) is probably better in January... don't forget also it's holiday Xmas season Wink


    We wanted to offer Goupil an opportunity to finish his League matches before 2015 starts Wink
    It seems that most players would like EuroLeague to finish before NC. It was the best way to fit both while NC is off. And we wanted to open the registration while NC is still drawing some interest rather than during the Xmas holidays.
    Also, if we include the Xmas holidays, the first deadline could be somewhere in early february for the first 4/5 matches, pretty comparable to last year.
    It also avoids any competition between SPWC/EMC scheduling with the end of the League.
          
    Elric - Sancerre
    Senior Member
    T2R Nation Cup 2013 Winner

    Fan-Seite
    Nachrichten: 1880
    Registriert:
    May 2005
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Sun, 16 November 2014 17:56
    Sysyphus - Pommard écrit le Sun, 16 November 2014 17:29

    We wanted to offer Goupil an opportunity to finish his League matches before 2015 starts Wink
    It seems that most players would like EuroLeague to finish before NC. It was the best way to fit both while NC is off. And we wanted to open the registration while NC is still drawing some interest rather than during the Xmas holidays.
    Also, if we include the Xmas holidays, the first deadline could be somewhere in early february for the first 4/5 matches, pretty comparable to last year.
    It also avoids any competition between SPWC/EMC scheduling with the end of the League.

    Ok with you to keep interests and forum alive after NC RR... so, it's not so bad Wink
    Last year, if I remember correctly, first deadline was 14th of February, don't put it earlier, the rhythm was perfect... to my opinion.

          
    ITA dandee
    Senior Member
    Cadet

    Fan-Seite
    Nachrichten: 1010
    Registriert:
    November 2008
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Mon, 17 November 2014 10:05
    Multi Europe:
    no problem for me to start in february and finish in march.

    Multi World Tournament:

    Is a big idea. All maps all formats.
    4 tournaments + master.

    1)USA
    2)EUROPE
    3)ASIA/SWISS/ALL MAPS
    4)USA/EUROPE

    A player can also participate in one tournament

    WMT RANK, same atp tennis.

    We will make a tournament premiere in July (2015).
    Usa Map.
    The rank of this preview will be used in 2016.

    In 2016 will start the final format.

    Accepts thoughts about.

    cu
    dan

    [Aktualisiert am: Mon, 17 November 2014 10:06]

          
    Sysyphus
    Senior Member
    T2R Nation Cup 2014 Winner

    Fan-Seite
    Nachrichten: 3450
    Registriert:
    December 2007
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Tue, 18 November 2014 00:57
    ITA dandee wrote on Mon, 17 November 2014 10:05


    Multi World Tournament:
    Is a big idea. All maps all formats.
    4 tournaments + master.

    1)USA
    2)EUROPE
    3)ASIA/SWISS/ALL MAPS
    4)USA/EUROPE

    A player can also participate in one tournament
    WMT RANK, same atp tennis.

    We will make a tournament premiere in July (2015).
    Usa Map.
    The rank of this preview will be used in 2016.
    In 2016 will start the final format.
    Accepts thoughts about.



    OK, I will reformulate his idea:

    Dandee wants to organize a year-long tournament which would include all the maps, and all the modes (2er/3er/4er/5er).

    He originally wanted to organize 4 map-dedicated tournaments during the year. One tournament would last 1 month, and the best players would gather in the Masters at the end of the year.

    This is an ambitious and heavy project and it needs a bit of work. Because it'd need to rethink the calendar entirely, I told dan that it would not be possible to organize such a tournament next year. It'd be better to experiment the format during the summer and see if players are interested and/or to see if the format works.

    My advice to dan was/is :
  • no long commitment required to win any single tournament
  • no long commitment required to qualify for the masters
  • dropping out would not affect your chances to win the whole thing
  • Not too complicated
  • reproducible format for each tournament

    If any of you has an idea to set up that kind of tournament, please help dan.




  •       
    toutoune - Morgon
    Senior Member
    T2R Nation Cup 2014 Winner

    Nachrichten: 1807
    Registriert:
    March 2005
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Tue, 18 November 2014 02:40
    week 36 is empty.
    a pity
          
    Sysyphus
    Senior Member
    T2R Nation Cup 2014 Winner

    Fan-Seite
    Nachrichten: 3450
    Registriert:
    December 2007
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Sat, 10 January 2015 23:22
    I want to open a couple ladders.

    Spirit
    Simple rules, not too many constraints.
    It's not a tournament system to crown the best player around but rather a way to play more competitive games on alternative maps.
    It should be low maintenance, players have to make the necessary efforts to communicate and schedule.

    Rules
    Registration open to everybody.
    Original ranking according to TELO. (reverse order ?)
    Players entering the ladder after its start will be placed at the bottom.

    A player can not refuse a challenge.

    Any player can challenge a player above him/her in the ladder respecting the following rules.
    Top 5 can only challenge any player 2 (n=2) rungs or fewer above him/her.
    Top 10 can only challenge any player 3 (n=3) rungs or fewer above him/her.
    Top 15 can only challenge any player 4 (n=4) rungs or fewer above him/her.
    Top 16 and beyond can only challenge any player 5 (n=5) rungs above him/her.

    All challenges are to published in the forum.
    You can not challenge the same player twice in a row.
    You can not challenge a player who has a challenge underway.

    Series of 6 games. In case of a win by highest-ranked player, players keep their rank.
    When a player beats an opponent in a rung higher than his, the two players switch rungs.
    If the game ends in a tie, the lower-ranked player takes the spot just below the higher-ranked player.
    If a player refuses or can not schedule with his appointment within 45 days, he'll go down n+1 ranks.

    What maps? 2 ladders running is enough I think
    Asia ? (only after AMC and SMC)
    Swiss ? (only after AMC and SMC)
    AAT ?
    TAG ?
    1910/BC/USA ?
    BC ?

    [Aktualisiert am: Sat, 10 January 2015 23:22]

          
    GenuineFauxFarm-CIA
    Senior Member
    T2R Nation Cup 2015 Winner

    Fan-Seite
    Nachrichten: 702
    Registriert:
    February 2009
    Re:2015 competitions : feedback needed Sun, 11 January 2015 00:55
    This idea sounds fun.

    But, my worry is that we are approaching a saturation point for the number of events that can be sustained with the participants we have (including any new people who join).

    In some ways, I wonder if we would be best to encourage more of the QT's throughout the year rather than another continuous event.

    On the other hand, I would not object if this alternated every other year with some other event that was a longer commitment.

    Just my opinion. Feel free to ignore as you all see fit.

    Best,
    Rob
    GFF
          
        
    Vorheriges Thema:FUSION CUP 2014 evaluation & questions
    Nächstes Thema:One Night Event 10.01.2015: Multi Europe Survivor
    Gehen Sie zum Forum: