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VerfasserThema
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Wed, 08 March 2017 01:40
Played this evening:
Truckerteller 5 - Hecki 3
      
GenuineFauxFarm-CIA
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Wed, 08 March 2017 21:41
vigu vs gff
5-1
      
Truckerteller
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Wed, 08 March 2017 22:24
Am I right to assume vigulisam withdraws from this tournament as well because he's to busy ? I will play only java.
      
RUS vigulisam
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Wed, 08 March 2017 23:04
You are the greatest finalist ever Very Happy
Congradulations!
      
GenuineFauxFarm-CIA
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Thu, 09 March 2017 00:07
What? Really?!?

You accepted a position in the knock out round with the intent to withdraw? That is not acceptable.

Play the *bip* match.

I went and played on vigulisam's home court in Steam. Had a difficult time with it, but I did it. And, I lost badly. In part because vigulisam is a good Asia player and in part because I am not comfortable in that environment. In short, he won - he played well, I played poorly. I lost. It's just the way it went.

The least vigulisam can do is play every other game in web to make it even with him and Truck. OR, vigulisam could have pulled out prior to knockout to let the next person have a chance in knockout.

And, before you (vigulisam) make an argument that web is awful, let me remind you that you tried to tell me that my issues with Steam were no big deal. I agreed that I might be able to get used to it after I'd played several games in it. I don't like to whine and complain, but I *was* having problems. If you know anything about how the brain works, there are benefits to being in a comfortable environment that is well known when you are competing. I have tried to play games in Nordic and others in STeam to get used to it, so I have been trying to figure it out.

Well, you can do the same with web.

Now, if you are just joking, sorry about my reaction. But, I am *not* happy about people telling me they'll play in these tourneys and then backing out. I have wasted too much of my time on this *bip*.

[Aktualisiert am: Thu, 09 March 2017 00:09]

      
RUS vigulisam
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Thu, 09 March 2017 11:17
Relax Rob, You are a great Man! Ty for organizing tournament and accepting playing quaterfinal in steam, even when you know that there i would have an adventage. You have balls. I'm not playing on web even in NC, it's Matter of principle for me. If you it acceptable, you can play in web semifinal instead of me.
      
GenuineFauxFarm-CIA
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Thu, 09 March 2017 15:22
RUS vigulisam wrote on Thu, 09 March 2017 04:17

Relax Rob, You are a great Man! Ty for organizing tournament and accepting playing quaterfinal in steam, even when you know that there i would have an adventage. You have balls. I'm not playing on web even in NC, it's Matter of principle for me. If you it acceptable, you can play in web semifinal instead of me.


Ok.
Simply put, I lost my round, so do not deserve to go forward. By this, I assume you are forfeiting next round to Truck. So, Truck goes to finals.

Other bracket, please schedule as you are available, then winner of that bracket should contact Truck to schedule final.

Thank you.
Rob
      
SuperPello
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Fri, 10 March 2017 10:50

SuperPello-Nicolas Saturday 11th at 14:30/15:00 cet

      
onyx puffin LOL
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Fri, 10 March 2017 16:52
RUS vigulisam wrote on Thu, 09 March 2017 05:17

I'm not playing on web even in NC, it's Matter of principle for me.


So, I am trying to understand what the principle is here? Many of us are willing to play on either format. (and yes most players have a preferred format)

In this case, the principle comes off: "You play my way or one of us hits the highway." And in this case, you forfeit the match. Now what I am trying to understand is how this has helped anything! Unless the principle you were going for was awareness.

What I become aware of is: Such stances of: I will not play on the other format, splits the community even more, making tournaments even more difficult. That is not a good thing.

[Aktualisiert am: Fri, 10 March 2017 16:54]

      
SuperPello
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Fri, 10 March 2017 18:39
It's not acceptable a withdraw for platform thing.
I normally use the old software version for playing usa, europe and swiss. Asia is newer so it's not in the available maps. Among browser and steam, steam is nearest to the old software version.
Even if I cannot understand how you biggies can play well on browser, I'll use browser for next match vs Nico . And so many games is a pain Laughing .

Assuming this and assuming that Peter won't change his mind, in my opinion we should avoid that this will affect the tournament. In other words I think that you, Rob, should play semifinal.

Marco
      
CIA ommie
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Fri, 10 March 2017 19:06
Withdrawing at this stage of a tournament is a total a$$ move. If Vigu was planning this all along as a 'matter of principal', he prevented other players from possibly advancing in the tournament. It's selfish on his part and damages the tourney. Both platforms have flaws at this point.


Unfortunately this shows bad character for Vigu in future tournaments. One more step in the wrong direction for the ttr communtiy. Confused





      
Knockando
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Fri, 10 March 2017 19:27
I still don't understand why all of you want to try to make a single community with java players and steam players.
2 different platform that will never join, because dow-asmodee will never improve steam, so most of java players will never go to steam and just stop playing TTR when java platform will become unavailable.

Java community will die by lack of players and-or no more access.

There will never be steam community because steam lobby isn't made for that. The steam players presently playing tournament and part of "community" were all playing before separation between java and steam. No more players joined them.

The only possible way was work on steam from asmodee, but they don't care about that, because it won't yield them any money.

Things are like that, that this pleases you or that this saddens you.
      
RUS vigulisam
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Fri, 10 March 2017 21:00
What's wrong with you guys, why nobody complaining about Truck, He said "Am I right to assume vigulisam withdraws from this tournament as well because he's to busy ? I will play only java."
I'm saying that i'll play only steam. Rules are on Truck's side


I want to remember you all, that i've said that I will take part only if here will be steam group as all tournaments before. Same way I've quilified in SPMC, in steam Group and quited in semifinal. Where vassilis substitude me, coz nobody wanted to play on steam, that was ok with me.

And that's okay with me if Rob will play vs Truck in semifinal.

I'm very glad that Rob gave me oportunity to play here.

Unfortunately this shows bad character for Vigu in future tournaments.
Ommie, I don't understand how you estimate my character in this situation, You did not even know me.

      
Knockando
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Fri, 10 March 2017 21:24
And I don't say java players are better or worst people than steam players, I don't say I prefer java players (in fact I like some java players and I like too some steam players...) Rolling Eyes

But I think there would be java tournaments and steam tournaments
      
CIA ommie
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Sat, 11 March 2017 02:11
Bad character for me is purposely withdrawing from a tournament after you have eliminated other people. Those people could've gone further in the tournament and, most likely, would not withdraw later on. I don't like forfeits. I don't like substitutions when you 'can' play on another format. My nc teammates have made big efforts to play on both platforms. Rules are rules, and if you're not going to make the effort to play on java later on...then don't play. Bleh!


No, I don't know you, but is isn't nice to do what you've done. I think it's crap.



Note: maybe not the nicest statement from Truckie, but it was fair to ask after your notes in league.

      
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Sat, 11 March 2017 02:31
CIA ommie wrote on Sat, 11 March 2017 02:11

Bad character for me is purposely withdrawing from a tournament after you have eliminated other people. Those people could've gone further in the tournament and, most likely, would not withdraw later on. I don't like forfeits. I don't like substitutions when you 'can' play on another format. My nc teammates have made big efforts to play on both platforms. Rules are rules, and if you're not going to make the effort to play on java later on...then don't play. Bleh!


No, I don't know you, but is isn't nice to do what you've done. I think it's crap.



Note: maybe not the nicest statement from Truckie, but it was fair to ask after your notes in league.




I mostly object to withdrawing from a tournament in the middle of a match. I'm up 2-0 in Swiss and asking for dates through PM, while playing Steam for the second time (also in NC, I lost, I would be nr 1 in TELO if I make a tie or better when playing "normal" java. vigulisam does play Fusion and AMC QF but doesn't want to play SMC anymore, because he's likely out of the tournament anyway.





      
GenuineFauxFarm-CIA
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Sat, 11 March 2017 04:18
Look, this is what I've been trying to say all along. Please stay with me here, because I have a point I hope vigulisam and others will take.

When both web and Steam were linked, there was no problem because each player saw the interface they knew. so, if I played Pello or vigulisam we were on even ground. Now, as Knockando points out, Asmodee doesn't support the interaction between the two platforms. The result?

We have a home field advantage situation.

The science for home-field advantage is pretty clear. For example, this meta-study by J Jamieson in the Journal of Applied Social Psychology ends up showing strong evidence for home-field advantages in competitive environments.

"The current findings also have implications for theoretical models. To date, the most comprehensive model of the home-field advantage in athletics is Courneya and Carron’s (1992) feed-forward model (see also Carron et al., 2005). In this model, factors associated with the location of the game feed into the psychological states of the competitors and referees/judges, which then impact the behavior of these individuals, resulting in a home-field advantage."

Other studies point out that placement of items in a different location is sometimes enough to change outcomes simply because the brain is being made to think about something that is not normally part of the thought process in competition. For example, the location of the tickets, or the deck. If I have to spend some of my thought remembering I have to go click OVER THERE instead of OVER HERE for new cards... then I have been distracted from the strategy.

So - if you're still with me.....here's my point.

I believe vigulisam, perhaps correctly, has felt that some people think he isn't actually a very good player because he beats them at his home court perhaps more often than he might when he is at his opponents home court. In short, vigulisam feels that people have not treated his level of play with respect. I understand how that can happen. After all, if I am upset playing in Steam I will want to complain about it because I don't feel I'm playing as well as I think I should be. But, vigulisam may interpret that as disrespect for his quality of play, which I assure you is fine.

My problem with vigulisam in this case is the unwillingness to perhaps accept to play split matches where home field is half and half as much as possible. For a time, it made me feel as if he didn't respect me because he discounted my discomfort with Steam. That's a problem because he should fully understand how uncomfortable I was. After all, it is the reason he won't play web.

I can get along with vigulisam fine. I just think we need to work on our communication so he can understand why I am having troubles and I can understand why he might have trouble in web version.

So, vigu - here is my disappointment to make it very clear.

AT the beginning I posted that I wanted participants to HANDLE PLATFORM DIFFERENCES in a fair manner. I suggested that they split rounds half and half to deal with the home-field advantage as well as possible. Is that inconvenient? Sure. But, if we were going to include players on both platforms, it was necessary and the best solution.

So, my disappointment vigu is that you apparently started the tourney without accepting that premise. Maybe I didn't fully understand you. Maybe you didn't fully understand me. After all, I only know English and I don't expect English is your primary language.

So - web people. Please give a little respect to the discomfort of players like Superpello, vigulisam and others who learned TTR in the Steam environment. When we make them play the web version it is every bit as uncomfortable for them as we feel in Steam.

Seriously, I have a terrible time in Steam playing a competitive match and it makes me very unhappy. I just want to play my best - and if I lose, I lose. But, when I feel I am unable to play well - of course I get upset. It's normal.

Now that the TD has had his say, let's let the discussion end on this. It can only get angrier and less helpful I feel. Let's just try to understand that there is a home-field advantage in platform.

And, the ruling STANDS. Truck moves to the final. I lost my match to vigulisam. I did NOT earn the right to move forward.

On the other hand, vigulisam earned the right to move forward. But,by virtue of offering to let Truck move on (and to let me play semi in his place) vigulisam is allowing Truck to move forward with a forfeit. And, vigulisam has made it clear he will not play in web in any case - therefore, there is no way to even try to eliminate the home-field advantage. It isn't worth forcing a Truck-vigulisam match were no one will be happy anyway.

Let it lie now people and move on with some decent remaining games in AMC.

Thank you.
Rob
GFF-CIA

[Aktualisiert am: Sat, 11 March 2017 04:24]

      
Qorlas
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Sat, 11 March 2017 10:36
See other thread


https://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?goto=354443#msg_354443

[Aktualisiert am: Sat, 11 March 2017 10:38]

      
RUS vigulisam
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Sat, 11 March 2017 10:44
I'm not finish ours clash Truck only becouse there were deadline, and I have to play a lot of games coz Fusion started and I have League and AMC, If Rob Allows we can end our game on Steam of course, I still have chances if I beat you and voj.

About future tournaments, I will join them same way, only with steam platform, if TD and other players not against my participating there. Ommie and others, if you against, just say it in registration post, and i'll leave.
I'm not forcing you all to play on steam, if you want you can always win game vs me in Truck's way, and that's ok with me.
      
DrakeStorm
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Sat, 11 March 2017 12:16
I read the posts more or less, and everyone has some valid points, but in the end there is a bias against steam.

Steam does suck in many ways, but Java is the past. It's just a matter of time before it is dead.

I haven't and will not play any more tournaments unless they are on Steam. It has nothing to do with "home field" advantage. I am much better on Java.

I do think that if you join a tournament that states you will need to play on java, and then refuse, is kinda lame. But on the flip side, if it says you should "handle platform differences in a fair manner", then the match should be 3 games on each platform. And if both opponents refuse to play on the other platform, then they both forfeit.

Just look, SMC is at 11 people, down from 20 last year. AMC 25 down to 13? I am not saying everyone switching to Steam will improve the numbers. I am saying if you want tournaments to continue, you need to re-group and ultimately that needs to be done on steam not java.



      
SuperPello
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Sat, 11 March 2017 15:45
NG SuperPello wrote on Fri, 10 March 2017 10:50


SuperPello-Nicolas Saturday 11th at 14:30/15:00 cet





SuperPello-Nicolas 5:1

A miracle day, never played so good. I'm the first to be surprised.
I'm sorry Nico, was my day.

Marco
      
BTB nicolas21
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Sat, 11 March 2017 16:56
Great played Marco,some luck probably but I have rarely seen someone playing that well, all the good decision at right time .
      
Sysyphus
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Sat, 11 March 2017 20:09
GenuineFauxFarm-CIA écrit le Thu, 02 February 2017 00:30



A note about different platforms
Please communicate with each other about your preferred playing platform (web or steam). You should be able to handle your own conflicts with platform. If you cannot, then the standard ruling is that you WILL find a way to play 3 games in each platform in the round robin. If it is in a playoff round, TD will make a ruling at that time.


Quote:


About future tournaments, I will join them same way, only with steam platform,


Quote:

I have to play a lot of games coz Fusion started and I have League and AMC, If Rob Allows we can end our game on Steam of course, I still have chances if I beat you and voj.


It just seems that Peter did not care about the rules of the tournament, nor about a possible TD ruling, nor about scheduling issues when joining several tournaments, nor about the implications of a forfeit...

Regarding Steam vs Java. The debate always comes down to technical issues, but this is not the point.

The new platform totally suppresses the hand/color management aspect of the game (if someone can see all the colors played by the opponent during a game, let me know), making a tournament game look like a battle versus a strong bot, or a battle between 1300+ players on Java: you check who won at the end of the game, and you don't even know why you won or lost.

There is no home field advantage on Java on that regard, everybody has access to the same information. On the new platform, you have access only to partial information, making the game more random.
If players win more games on the new platform because they think the Java implementation impede their results in tournaments because of technical issues, they are wrong.
A split of games 3-3 between both platform may seem fair, but it will favor a more random outcome regardless.

That said, I was in favor of organizing more tournaments on the new platform because this is the future... If people die to play on the new platform, take your responsibility and do it.

[Aktualisiert am: Sat, 11 March 2017 20:23]

      
RUS vigulisam
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Sun, 12 March 2017 15:39
(if someone can see all the colors played by the opponent during a game, let me know)

I'm interesting where in real game you can look what colors your oponent played in the hole game?

It just seems that Peter did not care about the rules of the tournament, nor about a possible TD ruling, nor about scheduling issues when joining several tournaments, nor about the implications of a forfeit...

It's only seems to you.

      
CIA ommie
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Sun, 12 March 2017 17:41
No, it only seem to A LOT of us that you don't respect the tourney or rules because of your selfish, stubborn action of withdrawing. I don't care what you say when you sign up, the rules are clearly stated. If you play, people assume you will at least play 3 games in java. It's ridiculous that you continue to withdraw and forfeit over java. Sure, java will eventually be dead, but until that time you need to make the effort that other make from java to steam. It's unfair, rude, and completely selfish to only play on one platform.


It damages the tourney when you withdraw for ridiculous reasons.



Don't sign up for SPWC unless you will play some games on java.



      
RUS vigulisam
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Sun, 12 March 2017 18:02
It damages the tourney when you withdraw for ridiculous reasons.

OMFG STOP IT. BOTH OF YOU DO NOT EVEN TAKING PART HERE SO FUCK OFF
      
Qorlas
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Sun, 12 March 2017 18:53
RUS vigulisam wrote on Sun, 12 March 2017 15:39

(if someone can see all the colors played by the opponent during a game, let me know)

I'm interesting where in real game you can look what colors your oponent played in the hole game?






Aye aye sir Wink

I can see all the colors played by an opponent during a game.

In the Java version you can always fill an excel file to count them.

In the Live version you have the right to ask for which colors he played and then memorize it (or write down a note)

Back to the Orcs-Khajit fight

[Aktualisiert am: Sun, 12 March 2017 18:53]

      
RUS vigulisam
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Sun, 12 March 2017 19:00
In the Java version you can always fill an excel file to count them.

In the Live version you have the right to ask for which colors he played and then memorize it (or write down a note)

same in steam
      
Qorlas
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Sun, 12 March 2017 19:46
As I tell in classroom:

explain your answer with a complete argumentation. Wink

and

few questions also here in general:

1) Are you aware that tournaments go on only for the dedication of really few people and to cause a forfeit in a tournament discourage them from going on? (and I could be seen as an example)

2) Why do you hate the web version? (matter of principle is a good way to hide your motivations igf they exist)

3) General question: why the option to play in both platforms to ease the transition is not an acceptable one?

4) Is not players only stopping play but also organizers. Without people organizing tournaments there will not be tournaments anymore. Why to give them difficult choices instead of helping them?
The comments of 12 months ago didn't help at all... I decided to stop playing for several reasons.

5) I am still expecting the second real big tournament Steam only exploiting all the maps and with a number of players comparable with the one of web versions (30 or so)


It is a good feeling to be emotionally detached now Wink
      
CIA ommie
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Sun, 12 March 2017 19:54
I find this really disappointing.


One last note and then I'm done. Maybe a lack of ttr history plays a part here. Dow added a bunch of changes to ttr in 2009 or so. The community had asked for a long list of items to help make the competitive game better. A lot of those things were implemented, and now, not all of them appear on steam. Tourney games are not as good as a result.


Sysy and I have spent a lot of time building the community and working on tournaments. We have invited people to come play, shared advice on how to play, helped create tournaments and have been TD's. So yes, we have stuck our noses in a tournament that we're not playing in. We see Vigulisam's behavior as damaging, and want to help save what is left of ttr. We don't have a lot of time to play ttr, and Sysy continues to be less interested in it (crap drama from stupid things doesn't help). I don't want people excluded from playing, but when you display bad gamesmanship because you're selfish...I find it insulting to the community.


Make an effort to help the community, that's all I ask.


      
GenuineFauxFarm-CIA
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Sun, 12 March 2017 21:00
As mentioned before.

This is the last AMC and SMC I will run and it will be the last one I will participate in.

Qorlas is correct to point out that the few who do volunteer time to try to run tourneys in a fair/impartial and polite manner get tired of arguments. But even more, we get tired of people who just don't follow through with the tourney even though we do our best to explain at the beginning what we would like to make it all run well.

Vigulisam is correct that people in the community did not take the time to understand that the Steam players also struggled with the changes when the two platforms were split. They were hurt as much as web platform players, but I am not sure they were given the same consideration early on. I think that people, such as onyx, drake, etc have tried very hard to be more inclusive and make the move to Steam in an effort to reach out. So, I see that as changing. I wish vigu would see this and not take things quite so personally. I also wish he would take a moment to understand why it hurt the tourney for him to take the approach he did. My suggestion, vigulisam, is that you set up and run a tourney of your own in Steam. Then, see how much fun it is for you when several people decide not to complete the tourney or when they decide that their rules are more important than the ones you set down.

Drake. Sure, the community as we know it is dying. I was fully aware entering into this that things were changing and I took what seemed to be the best first step towards a conversion to a different system that would probably end up being all Steam as web went away. But, at this point, I needed a segment of the web community to agree to join in to have a viable tourney - and you can't get that without some compromise. You chose not to join because you have decided to not play web. I respect that.

Ommie also correctly points out that there are people who worked hard for many years to try to build a competitive community that had integrity. It is VERY hard to watch something you've worked to build fall apart, regardless of the reasons.

In the end, this is a game - something we should be enjoying. Each of us will make our decisions about how to keep it enjoyable. Drake and womble decided to go all Steam and wait and see if some STeam tourneys would develop. Others have moved on to other games and only play TTR outside of tourneys. Hecki has decided he can play any platform he feels like - good for him.

For me - it is important that I complete things that I say I will participate in. I will do my best in SMC and in Fusion. Then, I will take my normal warm season break to concentrate on the farm. Then, we will see.

It is safe to say that my time to volunteer to run things is at an end for a while - perhaps forever in TTR. If it looks like something fun is developing in the future, I may rejoin. Otherwise, I'll play a game here and there in whichever platform I want to open. It's a shame because, as a competitive individual, this provided a good outlet for me. My baseball days are over, so I guess I'll look for something else.

Rob
GFF-CIA
      
RUS vigulisam
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Sun, 12 March 2017 21:17
"Sysy and I have spent a lot of time building the community and working on tournaments." You are great guys nothing to add here. I fully respect your work and your play, I studied t2r while watching your games. But I'm really tired coz all you do last 2 years just crying that comunity is dying and that's all. Nothing more.

Steam vs Web discusion is over more than year ago, and I don't want to continiu it here. That's for Qorlas.

I've told that i'll play on steam in the beginning of the tournament. Nobody was against coz there are only 13 players or smth near.

Java will be dead soon, almost all browsers will not support it anymore. There will remain only 10-15 players who plays on steam, and maybe with guys like Sivoro and GFF there would be another breath for community or maybe not. We'll see.


      
Qorlas
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Sun, 12 March 2017 21:50
Thanks for your answer Vig, but I am not interested in what you have just told.

The great answer I was hoping to see from you was told by gff instead. (Thanks gff!)

Perhaps I overestimated your thinking and you passed upon another chance to explain why you all need to make tournaments on Steam now instead than playing on web.

Tournaments need to start on "Steam only" now Rolling Eyes

I can only hope you will be coherent with yourself when you will be in the place Sysyphus and Ommie are. (Steam will not be forever the more modern option, and perhaps you will discover the life of dinosaurs in your future)

Bye all, I am glad to just write this as an external beholder Laughing
      
GenuineFauxFarm-CIA
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Mon, 13 March 2017 04:29
RUS vigulisam wrote on Sun, 12 March 2017 15:17

There will remain only 10-15 players who plays on steam, and maybe with guys like Sivoro and GFF there would be another breath for community or maybe not. We'll see.



Vigu.. no, not me. Sorry. Once again, I suggest you organize a Steam tourney. Set the rules that games are played in Steam. Promote it to those you know and see how it goes. You can certainly use the materials some of us have put out for organization to help you.

I think you are missing what people are trying to tell you. I am willing to discuss further via PM if you wish. Or, we will just say goodbye and leave it where it is now. Up to you.

If there's a tourney next Winter that interests me, maybe then. But, I won't be organizing anything for TTR anytime soon, if ever.

Rob
GFF-CIA

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 13 March 2017 04:31]

      
ITA dandee
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Mon, 13 March 2017 15:32
hi all

When principles outweigh respect for others it is the beginning of the end.

The truth is that the comunity is not dying for java or steam. Java so it works still do not see what the problem is. When eventually he will die if you want you will find a situation. The comunity is dying because people are tired of playing. There are many other forms of board game, type BGA, and if Dow will not understand all this will die quickly. Java or Steam.

cu
dan


      
RUS vigulisam
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Mon, 13 March 2017 19:34
That's fun like all of you sayin about principles to me, and nothing to truck or yourself. Look at trucks first frase, is he right about my withdrawing coz HE Wont play on steam.
Let's talk about this. Why won't he play? coz he had bad results there? Common he beated smc group there he won multi America group there. There are no problems for him with steam, but he said he won't play there, so why?
Because he don't want to play there.
I don't want to play on web, coz I don't get any satisfaction of playing there no matter winning or losing. About result, look at my previous nc and fusion, I've play it on high level and I've played it almost on web.
So tell me why you all complaining only about me, not truck and your self
Ah there are some reasons
1. Truck is legend of this game
2. I'm not
3. Half of you put me in nightmare team of Nc every year ( seems like you hate me or think that I'm total noob)
4. Rules are on trucks side

But am I going against rules??? No they are clear for me, he winning and I understand it, and I told nothing

So you can make 1 more circle to kiss trucks legendary ass and say more bad word in my address. You are welcome
      
Truckerteller
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Mon, 13 March 2017 20:33
RUS vigulisam wrote on Mon, 13 March 2017 19:34

That's fun like all of you sayin about principles to me, and nothing to truck or yourself. Look at trucks first frase, is he right about my withdrawing coz HE Wont play on steam.
Let's talk about this. Why won't he play? coz he had bad results there? Common he beated smc group there he won multi America group there. There are no problems for him with steam, but he said he won't play there, so why?
Because he don't want to play there.
I don't want to play on web, coz I don't get any satisfaction of playing there no matter winning or losing. About result, look at my previous nc and fusion, I've play it on high level and I've played it almost on web.
So tell me why you all complaining only about me, not truck and your self
Ah there are some reasons
1. Truck is legend of this game
2. I'm not
3. Half of you put me in nightmare team of Nc every year ( seems like you hate me or think that I'm total noob)
4. Rules are on trucks side

But am I going against rules??? No they are clear for me, he winning and I understand it, and I told nothing

So you can make 1 more circle to kiss trucks legendary ass and say more bad word in my address. You are welcome


Legendary Truck played you in steam during NC, played you on steam during MPWC, played you on steam during SMC - a tournament you did not finish. No other "legandary" player is offering to play on steam. Less legandary Knockando got moved to another group because he wanted to play java. Legendary White Train and legendary Tenniskasi aren't playing anything outside US 2p, certainly not offering steam. Same for somewhat less legendary toutoune. Legendary Angel6 isn't offering to play steam or trying it. Legendary Sysy tried a bit but isn't playing steam in tournaments as per his post above.

Legendary Truck has played all his games during League, NC, SPWC, EMC, AMC, SMC, Euroleague, not dropping out or losing by ruling once in 7 years. Why, because legendary Truck cares about the tournaments and all those in his group or bracket.

Don't fffing make me look like the bad guy here.

CIA Truckerteller wrote on Thu, 02 February 2017 17:01



I can play steam for the group stage, but will refuse to do so in QF, SF or F.


Either you or gff should have known the SF would not be played in the case that you will never play java.

ps. I do agree that vigulisam is far less at fault here than some players in league who just forfeit because they don't like the results of their first matches. Making this whole thread about vigulisam being the worst sportsman ever, seems disproportional.

pps. I think you overestimate the "a$$kissing". Calling me legendary is probably the best "a$$kissing" I've received here ever. So, THANKS !

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 13 March 2017 20:43]

      
RUS Sivorro
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Mon, 13 March 2017 20:42
My friends! Smile

You continue this drama more and more.
I don't like vigu position. I had troubles in NC with him.
I don't like Sven's decision. He can play steam.

Maybe you play on steam instead of posting posting posting here.

Cheers

Stas
      
CIA ommie
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Mon, 13 March 2017 20:57
I haven't posted so much in a long time... Laughing Laughing



I didn't mention Truck for a very good reason. If gff had ruled that your match must be played 3 games on steam and 3 games on java...Truck would've done it. As he mentioned, he cares about the tournament and people. He also cares about TELO... Laughing Finishing the tourney shows that you respect everything we've talked about. Would you have played 3 and 3? From your "principle", we seriously doubt it.


I don't think you're the worst sportsman ever, but this withdrawing stuff is BAD and I want to make a point that it won't be accepted. I also made the point that stating a position solely in steam or solely in java isn't acceptable anymore. You need to be flexible for both (that includes me and I need more games in steam before I can play..). TD's will make the judgement how to handle it in later rounds.


Don't take offense from Nightmare selections. I know I've picked you more than once and that is because we've been in the same group the last 3 years. You had a high score...so hop, you're in my nightmare team!! This last year you killed my team, so you should be happy. Evil or Very Mad Laughing I've picked a lot of good people over the years, so really...don't be insulted by it.


      
DrakeStorm
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Re:(AMC) Asia Map Championship 2017 Mon, 13 March 2017 21:11
I think one problem is Vig didn't fully clarify his position at the beginning.

RUS vigulisam wrote on Wed, 04 January 2017 07:21

in for both if here will be steam group


If he had just worded this different, I think things would be different. If he said "I will join, but will only play on Steam. If that is a problem, don't add me to tournament."

He almost said that but not quite.

GenuineFauxFarm-CIA wrote on Wed, 01 February 2017 15:30

A note about different platforms
Please communicate with each other about your preferred playing platform (web or steam). You should be able to handle your own conflicts with platform. If you cannot, then the standard ruling is that you WILL find a way to play 3 games in each platform in the round robin. If it is in a playoff round, TD will make a ruling at that time.


So really nothing about having to play all games on Java in KO. If both refuse (no idea if Truck refused to play 3 games on steam or not, just got that impression from this thread), then it is TD decision. And seems no reason TD should side with Java except in the very first sign up post Sivorro casually said java is default.

I don't think anyone decided Truck over Vig, it is more Java over Steam. I don't understand why Truck just doesn't play on steam if he already has before. I can understand someone who doesn't want to install steam, or has never played on it, but apparently Truck has.

If it is really about "you can't see colors". Just add rule, that on Steam, players have to tell each other what colors they played if asked. Sure the game will be slower, but really how many times in a game would you need to ask, once, twice?


PS: There are many years where I was picked in Nightmare more than most other people. Not a big deal, I was just a good value, my overall ELO was always a lot higher than my skill at 2P USA because I played different maps and multi.

PPS: Everyone should come to steam and try out the Pennsylvania map, it seems like the closest to USA map with long routes, no tunnels, etc. Also seems like it would be ok 4P.

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 13 March 2017 21:20]

      
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