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player281608
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  Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Mon, 13 November 2006 07:11
Frankly..I'm a little dissapointed with DOW. I have supported them since Memior '44 first came out. I've bought all their exapnsions (Haven't even played 2 of them yet). I believe in financially supporting good gaming companies. I even bought ticket to ride even though it's not my kinda game. Now how does DOW repay my loyalty? By treating me like I'm a second-class world citizen because of my nationality.

I have seen many other members post about ways to beg, steal or borrow the Earth Elemental figure. We have all been told we have to get one at a promotion or wait until it is sold later. I was fine with this because I thought the playing field was level (even though I'm stationed overseas and have no chance of attending a site where the figure is being given out).
Then I popped over to the European store.

That's when I discovered that anyone ordering from the European website GETS BOTH FIGURES FOR FREE AS A PROMOTION! I, for one would like an explination. Why would anyone ordering from the American site (IE: mostly Americans) only get one figure while a European gets both? I hate to call foul, but until I get a satisfactory answer from DOW I intend to no longer order or purchase ANYTHING from them. It's a shame really. I already had planned to purchase both the carrying case and any figures they release for Battlore. Now I just wish I could take my pr-order back.

I encourage anyone else who feels this is an unfair treatment of a certain members of the gaming community to do the same until either the situation is explained, or equal treatment is given to all customers. I personally don't like giving money to any company I feel is treating me disparigingly due to my nationality.


      
ElSoyokaze
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Mon, 13 November 2006 07:32
Wow, uh, take it easy, bud.

Last I checked, you weren't exactly entitled to anything of theirs.

Ask all you want why you don't get yours free, but boycotting such a fantastic company? Temper tantrum much?

After all, it's probably the Illuminati controlling Eric & co., forcing them to make Americans buy things just because they're American, right? Don't want to misplace your conspiracy theories, now.

--ElSoy

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 13 November 2006 07:38]

      
Baron Von Schmidt original
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Mon, 13 November 2006 07:47
First of all Brother the MAIN offices for TtR are in California so don't think you are being discriminated for being American.

Think the CEO is American even.

now that said, there is "discrimination" as you call it other places. Right now there are a bunch of Europeons that are mad because they seem to think they can't get the $10 dollar (or euro) discount on the Ticket to Ride PC game if they already own the board game. (from the Europeon web site)

Baron does not know if this is true or not but do you think they are now going to boycott Days of Wonder? Besides bro, from your post it is clear you are waaayyyy too much of a game geek to really boycott them Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Now write back and apologize and ask nicely for another figurine to be sent to you courtesy of The Baron.

Sincerely,

Baron Von Schmidt

p.s. dear DOW , please give this loyal athletic supporter, sorry game supporter a free little toy figurine and charge spudamon. Thanks.
      
player 577453
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Mon, 13 November 2006 07:54
Now bARON vON sTINKYPANTS i suppose dow can't charge u for it , otherwise it's back to the soup kitchen for u and the family Sad Sad

and all graminerrr done good for elso

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 13 November 2006 08:52]

      
player281608
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Mon, 13 November 2006 08:13
Elsoyokaze,

You're right. Maybe it's simply down to supply and demand. Maybe there's only enough Elementals ready to offer the dual promotion to European customers. Maybe there was a problem with distribution in the states and the company decided that if they can't offer it to everyone in the U.S., then they shouldn't offer it to anyone.

Did I say there was a conspiracy? No. I made an observation. Anyone ordering from the European website gets both figures and anyone ordering from the American website will only get one. The only obvious difference between the guy who ordered in Europe and me (who pre-ordered as soon as possible) is the statistical probability that he is European and I am not. Perhaps my alluding to Anti-Americanism was a little strong. But I have been banned from entering enough clubs and stores overseas to know it exists.

Do I think anyone else should stop ordering thier products? Only if they feel as strongly about it as I do. Maybe you don't care. Maybe many others don't care. I do. No I'm not owed anything. They offered a product and I foolishly bought it before I realized I would have gotten more for my money if I'd had my Danish wife purchase it. To me, the point is I shouldn't have had to have my wife order it. I feel, you obviously don't, that I should be offered the same reward for pre-ordering as my friends in the UK.

If I can't be offered the same deal without a plausible explination as to why, then I choose to take my business elsewhere. There are other great companies out there. I'll still be able to pour boatloads of cash into other great games and I'm sure DOW won't lose any sleep over it. Unless of course many others feel that it is a pretty shabby way to treat certain segements of their clientel and follow suit.

Besides I'm sure they have a plausable explination handy. Any company would have seen the obvious disparity in the two marketing/promotional campaigns and expected such a question.

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 13 November 2006 08:18]

      
chelnar
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Mon, 13 November 2006 10:05
Remember than europeen people pay 70 euros not 70 US dollars.

70 euro = 90 US dollars

20 dollars for a free elmental Shocked

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 13 November 2006 10:05]

      
snigwiddle
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Mon, 13 November 2006 14:14
I think it also may have to do with the fact that most Euro gamers, from what I understand, aren't really supportive of the "Big box,Big Price" that has become popular in the U.S.A.
In the land of the Super Size,the home of the S.U.V, and the stomping grounds of Bigfoot, I have paid $80 for huge boardgames and expansions that I need to buy a bigger table to play.I guess the European Market is different, with a more minimalist approach to their games.DOW probably needed a way to entice the Euro gamers to want to buy what amounts to a $90 game here.Besides, after the big Hill Giant/pre-order drama(See Boardgamegeek if interested)they have said that the Elemental will be easily available to anyone who wants one.I completely understand the anxiety of wanting this game and all of its pieces parts, but I am not jealous of the Europeans getting something I don't have.We will all have it sooner or later.Boycotting a fine company and what seems will be a fine game will do nothing to support a bunch of guy's that have tried to get people interested again in their local game stores, which I think is great.If you don't buy BattleLore, then I guess thats one less person I gotta wait in line behind to get my Elemental.And one less person whose butt my Hill Giant's gonna whup on.Anybody want a piece of this?I can't wait to play this game...
      
player281608
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Mon, 13 November 2006 14:58
snigwiddle / chelnar,

Now that was what I was talking about. The above observations that you both made are highly plausible. Maybe DOW does feel it is neccessary to give Euro players more because they pay more (In a head to head comparison of the dollar versus the Euro). Maybe they feel they have to entice them into paying more for a bigger box. In my experience, everything tends to be a bit more expensive in Europe. Most of which I think is due to the expenses involved (wages, fuel for trucks, etc. all tend to be dearer).

Of course, by that arguement, I should be hoping for a Thailand version so I could buy the game in Baht Very Happy
      
tom-le-termite
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Mon, 13 November 2006 15:17
all of that for a piece of plastic?

wooow....

I have my hill giant, and that is already great! ( and two weeks before europeans! )

so cool your temper... it is just a promotional figure... :0

tlt.
      
eric
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Mon, 13 November 2006 16:46
As I believe was explained in other posts, both here and on the Geek, the Earth Elemental will be _given_ at demo events and conventions throughout the US. And for those who cannot easily attend such events, it will be made available free of charge via the web site (for a modest shipping and handling fee) shortly thereafter.

The Hill Giant is being sent/given ahead of the product shipping, in the US. The Earth Elemental, even if we had wanted to, could not have been shipped as part of the same promotion, because it has not yet arrived in the country...

So I think saying anyone is being shortchanged might be jumping the gun a bit. Rolling Eyes

best,
Eric @ DoW

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 13 November 2006 16:47]

      
Baron Von Schmidt original
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Mon, 13 November 2006 23:34
Well there you go player. Turns out it was free for us Yanks after all and we don't even have to pay the extra $20 dollars.

However since the Europeons DO have to play the extra $20 they should get grumpy and take their business elsewhere. Shocked

jk.

And isn't it nice that spudamon now only has to pay the modest shipping and handling charges? Spudamon most likely thanks you Eric.

Baron Von Schmidt
      
orcbreath
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Tue, 14 November 2006 00:42
player281608 wrote on Mon, 13 November 2006 00:11

Frankly..I'm a little dissapointed with DOW. I have supported them since Memior '44 first came out. I've bought all their exapnsions (Haven't even played 2 of them yet). I believe in financially supporting good gaming companies. I even bought ticket to ride even though it's not my kinda game. Now how does DOW repay my loyalty? By treating me like I'm a second-class world citizen because of my nationality.

I have seen many other members post about ways to beg, steal or borrow the Earth Elemental figure. We have all been told we have to get one at a promotion or wait until it is sold later. I was fine with this because I thought the playing field was level (even though I'm stationed overseas and have no chance of attending a site where the figure is being given out).
Then I popped over to the European store.

That's when I discovered that anyone ordering from the European website GETS BOTH FIGURES FOR FREE AS A PROMOTION! I, for one would like an explination. Why would anyone ordering from the American site (IE: mostly Americans) only get one figure while a European gets both? I hate to call foul, but until I get a satisfactory answer from DOW I intend to no longer order or purchase ANYTHING from them. It's a shame really. I already had planned to purchase both the carrying case and any figures they release for Battlore. Now I just wish I could take my pr-order back.

I encourage anyone else who feels this is an unfair treatment of a certain members of the gaming community to do the same until either the situation is explained, or equal treatment is given to all customers. I personally don't like giving money to any company I feel is treating me disparigingly due to my nationality.





player281608 ,,
Whoh,, there is info in this forum !

The unoffical fan site is a good source for info :
http://www.battleloremaster.com/

Or you might go over to BGG (Bellyache/Grumble/Gripe)
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/25417

I think they've touched on about everything you can think of.
Course when the game come out .... Rolling Eyes

Eric,,
No more spifs,freebees, mulligans, promos, handouts, gimmies, errr_'Free Stuff' ,,
you're kill'in me. Laughing
      
StyxParadox2
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Tue, 14 November 2006 03:26
Wow, I really cannot believe this. I have being playing games since before Avalon Hill was in its prime and I must say that DoW is the best game company I have ever had the pleasure to do business with. I am amazed that anyone could have such strong negitive feelings about this company. I am sure that some have had thier odd problems here and there with DoW, but the vast majority of players that I have talked to or read posts from have nothing but glowing things to say about DoW. I guess it is true that you cannot please everyone all the time.
      
AK_Aramis
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Tue, 14 November 2006 09:43
My only real complaint is that DoW apparently doesn't take paypal.

I don't do credit cards.
      
mad-halfling
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Tue, 14 November 2006 13:15
Just a point of view from the other side of the coin - as a long-time UK gamer I am often frustrated at the amount of freebies/promo-items that we _can't_ get hold of over here because of the lesser amount and attendance of gaming cons. Yes, we've got some, but they don't seem to be a prolific as the US ones, and many a time I've mourned not being able to get hold of cool promo items for games that I own. I know that not all US people have access to cons, but pity us poor euro-folks as we get this (thread's) end of the stick quite a bit of the time.....

(Thank you very much, DoW, BTW)
      
Cantatta
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Tue, 14 November 2006 17:37
DoW takes care of their customers, believe me. It seems a little extreme to boycott the entire company over what amounts to a free plastic promo figure, no matter how you look at it. I have pre-ordered two copies of the game from two different places, and I will only be getting one Hill Giant out of the deal, because my first pre-order was not elligable for the promo, but I didn't realize this until I had already placed the order. Knowing I was buying two copies, I made sure the second order did include the Hill Giant.

Am I mad at DoW because I won't be getting two Hill Giants? Hardly. Will I be happy to wait for the Earth Elemental to go on-sale from DoW's website (for a modest shipping and handling fee)? You bet, and I'll probably buy two of them.

Meanwhile... anybody want to part with an extra Hill Giant? Laughing
      
Palpatine
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Wed, 15 November 2006 07:24
Will all promotional figures be eventually available through your site for us poor slobs who can't make it to any cons?

      
Talespinner
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Wed, 15 November 2006 16:13
If you check the "Earth Elemental MINI - Where?" topic, (not sure how to link it) you will note that Eric has said that all the "promo" figures will be available from the DOW website a couple months after their release. People will have to pay S&H only, the figure itself will be "free."

Also, as someone who lives and works in both Europe and the US (guess how many frequent flyer miles I get) American players should never feel shortchanged on how they get treated by DOW. Not only is it hard to even find games stores in Europe, but the size of the Battlelore set alone is a bit of a turn off for some Europeans, to say nothing of the cost difference. In addition to it costing more, I will also mention that the average income of someone in Europe is lower than the US. It is cheaper for me to buy things in the US and take them with me back to Europe than buy them over there.

And do not get me started on the price of shipping anything anywhere in Europe.
      
barcafer
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  Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Wed, 15 November 2006 17:10
I think the real issue here is not who is paying how much for what and who is getting what for free.

The BIG issue is that Europeans will be getting the EE first and will have a chance to practice with it and learn the best way to play it. That is going to put us Americans at a huge disadvantage when we face Europeans in tournaments.
      
mad-halfling
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Wed, 15 November 2006 19:30
Unless I'm mistaken, the game is designed to be played by 2 players using the same set, so therefore either the figure will be available to both players (and there must be some priority/bidding system to determine who gets first pick from the creatures) or to neither. So there will be no "my side's got this creature and your side can't have it".....?
      
Cantatta
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Arnhem Victory

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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Wed, 15 November 2006 23:11
Most likely only one creature of a given type can be in play at any one time, no matter who controls that creature. Summoning a magical creature is apparently based on being in control of a Circle of Summoning (as appears in the blog), at least that is one way (what about Lore Masters, eh?). Once the creature is summoned, the Circle disappears, so your opponent isn't going to be able to summon the same creature. Of course, this is all conjecture, based on the limited info we have at hand, but I would say you aren't likely to see two Earth Elementals or two Hill Giants duking it out during an adventure. I could be very wrong in this, it's just my opinion.
      
yangtze
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Wed, 15 November 2006 23:23
You'll probably be able to get hold of the stats for the figures and practise with mock-ups Smile
      
mad-halfling
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Thu, 16 November 2006 15:00
Sorry, I may have mis-read/understood barcafer's comment =8)

It's a single piece within a much larger game, is it _really_ going to put people at much of a disadvantage not having played with it before? And if a player is that much of a tournament player then surely they will be able to get it at a con quickly enough anyway (and how many euro ppl will be at US cons?). Also, if it _is_ a contentious issue and/or some players won't have access to it then any tournament organiser worth his or her salt won't allow it in a tournament anyway and will stick to the out-of-the-box armies(?) Sorry if I sound a little confrontational (I don't mean to be), but it doesn't seem to be such a big deal to me.

[Aktualisiert am: Thu, 16 November 2006 15:01]

      
yangtze
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Thu, 16 November 2006 15:48
It's no big deal, unless you lose in the final of the International Battlelore Tournament, December 2006, to some barbarian Brit with an Earth Elemental! (hopefully me) Laughing
      
barcafer
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Thu, 16 November 2006 16:03
My comment was purely in jest, but this is the first time I tried to use emotocons on this site, so it ended up in the wrong place. Embarassed

Hopefully I have learned my lesson.
      
player270835
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Thu, 16 November 2006 16:10
Hi,

Your be safe from this barbarian Brit as I will be keeping my two Earth Elementals at home as I play for fun and don't enter Tournaments.


Rich.
      
Talespinner
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Thu, 16 November 2006 17:58
barcafer wrote on Wed, 15 November 2006 11:10

I think the real issue here is not who is paying how much for what and who is getting what for free.

The BIG issue is that Europeans will be getting the EE first and will have a chance to practice with it and learn the best way to play it. That is going to put us Americans at a huge disadvantage when we face Europeans in tournaments.


Spoken like someone who has been on the receiving end of too many Wizkids special promo figures. :Shudder: I can only assume DOW is better than that. They seem to be.
      
mad-halfling
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Thu, 16 November 2006 19:16
ROFL

Just a thought (directed at this thread rather than any particular poster) - looking at the latest blog entry, can we give the DoW guys a break on this issue, it looks like they have enough to worry about getting the game out rather than who-gets-what promo figure? They have posted how the distribution of them will work so everyone should get an opportunity to get the figures, one way or another.....(and there will be a limited number issued per country, so not even the euro guys are _guaranteed_ them).....I'm wondering if the DoW guys are regretting open this can-of-worms in an attempt to give as many folks as possible around the world a good chance of getting the promo figures. =8)
      
Cantatta
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Thu, 16 November 2006 22:40
I would assume there will be at least one figure for each copy of the game sold, so how could anyone miss out? I wouldn't be surprised if there are actually a surplus of promo figures, knowing that folks will want to get more than one for obvious reasons.

Now, assuming there are no smack-tards out there trying to "deal" in BL figurines on E-bay or something, then as Eric has said many times, everyone should be able to get there hands on the promo figures at some point.

And yes, the latest Blog entry obviously shows us that DoW has more important things to worry about right now, hence the exhaustive explanation. At the same time, KUDOS to DoW for giving us the detailed information, as well as hope for the future of BL gamers everywhere... w00t!!

[Aktualisiert am: Fri, 17 November 2006 21:31]

      
orcbreath
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Fri, 17 November 2006 00:25
barcafer wrote on Wed, 15 November 2006 10:10

I think the real issue here is not who is paying how much for what and who is getting what for free.

The BIG issue is that Europeans will be getting the EE first and will have a chance to practice with it and learn the best way to play it. That is going to put us Americans at a huge disadvantage when we face Europeans in tournaments.


" Mr. President, we must not allow a EarthElemental gap! "
Gen. 'Buck' Turgidson
      
InfinityMax
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Fri, 17 November 2006 01:55
Wow! DoW is going to give away the promos for free? As a huge fan of Heroscape, and having seen the rabid rush for Hawthornes and Neraks, this is absolutely fantastic. I wish more game companies would follow their lead.
      
yangtze
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Fri, 17 November 2006 10:53
Agreed, very good cusomer relations. I suppose the important thing is it's not 'if' we're going to get a free figure or two, it's 'when'. Given the interest this has generated and the hysteria it's caused (that's not a flame, I'm hysterical too! and happy to be on the right side of the Earth Elemental gap!) maybe DoW should consider budgeting for a different free figure with every expansion pre-order?

[Aktualisiert am: Fri, 17 November 2006 10:54]

      
tastic
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Mon, 20 November 2006 05:35
I wouldn't worry too much about not having a piece for tournaments. If the game is worth its salt, then a player should be able to know what a given piece can do and employ tactics with his own pieces to either destroy or evade this other piece. Now if the piece was designed to be stupidly abusive....you may have a problem. Britannia tournament anyone?
      
Cantatta
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Mon, 20 November 2006 21:10
If it's a tournament level piece, then surely you could get one at an official tournament, since those usually require players to play special scenarios designed for the tournament. Any requirements for those tourney scenarios would have to be met by all players in order to play in the tourney.

I think DoW is doing a great service to the FLGS business with this promo and I have no problems with the way the pieces are/will be distributed in the future. I'm no tourney player, so that aspect of it doesn't stress me out. I'll get BL whatever, whenever, just so long as I get it all eventually. I do like a complete game system, whatever the path that leads me there.
      
reapersaurus
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Sat, 25 November 2006 22:19
barcafer wrote on Wed, 15 November 2006 08:10

The BIG issue is that Europeans will be getting the EE first and will have a chance to practice with it and learn the best way to play it. That is going to put us Americans at a huge disadvantage when we face Europeans in tournaments.
I'm surprised to see concern about tournament equality before the game has even come out yet. Shocked

Are there any tournament events listed yet?
Will those tournaments be before the Earth Elemental is available in the US?
      
Tarc70
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Mon, 27 November 2006 03:19
As long as I can get it at some point, I am cool with it. I don't feel snubbed.
      
player281608
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Wed, 29 November 2006 02:56
Ok...OK...Ok...I guess this is what I get for starting a wingeing thread about a great game company. Not only did Eric satisfactorily answer my question/rant, we could easily have gotten the elemental in January from the website, but now I've just discovered that those of us who ordered way early (from the U.S. website) will get it shipped with our game next week.

That does it...I give in...you guys win. DOW is great. I'll go quitely flog myself and eat my dinner. Anyone knows what goes good with crow?
      
AK_Aramis
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Wed, 29 November 2006 07:40
player281608 wrote on Tue, 28 November 2006 16:56


That does it...I give in...you guys win. DOW is great. I'll go quitely flog myself and eat my dinner. Anyone knows what goes good with crow?


Mead, beer, or tea... because crow always follows the wine course... Wink
      
MorpheusBE
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  Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Wed, 29 November 2006 16:25
You Americans (ok, maybe not all of you)...
You get one thing a little later than us Europeans and you're allready crying..
Maybe you should consider that maybe 95% of other things first arrives at the US and some time later (1 week or 6 months) we can also buy it. Most actual examples are the PS3 or the Nintendo Wii. So don't be like "oh they got it allready and we don't, booohoohooo"..

Sorry for the off topic comment...
      
GhostWolf69
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Re:Any other American player feel short changed? (start your protest here) Thu, 30 November 2006 09:31
Quoted from Chronicles:

"Earth Elementals for US customers who did not purchase through our web store


The Earth Elemental figures will still be available at conventions and events throughout the US. However we know that many of you may not have a BattleLore event near you. To make sure that anyone who wants a figure, effective December 6, Earth Elementals will be available for a modest shipping and handling fee of $ 4.00 directly from our web site (or free of charge if you order other products at the same time)."

Happy now?

/wolf
      
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