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Steerpike
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Creature Questions Thu, 07 December 2006 22:19
Hi,
I only got my copy of BL a couple of days ago, so I apologise now if these questions have been answered here already, or are just due to me not reading the rules enough times!

1) Do creatures Gain Ground (I'm guessing Yes), Pursue & Bonus Melee (I'm guessing No)?

2) What's the timing on using Lore for powers? The Spider says future Lore rolled, so I guess that's clear, but the Hill Giant and Earth Elemental both have effects that depend on the amount of Lore rolled... can this be the same roll that generated the Lore to power the effect?

3) Several powers talk about killing or losing a figure from an enemy unit... what happens if the enemy unit is also a creature?

4) The circle of Summoning: Does it matter if the unit is in the circle at the beginning or end of its movement? Does the phrase "Melee dice" just refer to the number of dice rolled, or does it mean that the unit uses its melee attack to make the summoning (in which case that answers my question about movement!)

5)Lore tokens are not generated if the Lore is "already dedicated to some other usage (Lore card's effect, Creature power-up or special power, etc.)". Obviously the Lore to trigger the power uses up the token, but for powers that do something "for each Lore rolled", does that count as 'usage' (and thus not generate Lore tokens)?

Thanks for your help!
Cheers,
Tom

[Aktualisiert am: Thu, 07 December 2006 22:27]

      
stenic
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Re:Creature Questions Thu, 07 December 2006 22:54
Steerpike wrote on Thu, 07 December 2006 21:19

Hi,
I only got my copy of BL a couple of days ago, so I apologise now if these questions have been answered here already, or are just due to me not reading the rules enough times!

1) Do creatures Gain Ground (I'm guessing Yes), Pursue & Bonus Melee (I'm guessing No)?

2) What's the timing on using Lore for powers? The Spider says future Lore rolled, so I guess that's clear, but the Hill Giant and Earth Elemental both have effects that depend on the amount of Lore rolled... can this be the same roll that generated the Lore to power the effect?

3) Several powers talk about killing or losing a figure from an enemy unit... what happens if the enemy unit is also a creature?

4) The circle of Summoning: Does it matter if the unit is in the circle at the beginning or end of its movement? Does the phrase "Melee dice" just refer to the number of dice rolled, or does it mean that the unit uses its melee attack to make the summoning (in which case that answers my question about movement!)

5)Lore tokens are not generated if the Lore is "already dedicated to some other usage (Lore card's effect, Creature power-up or special power, etc.)". Obviously the Lore to trigger the power uses up the token, but for powers that do something "for each Lore rolled", does that count as 'usage' (and thus not generate Lore tokens)?

Thanks for your help!
Cheers,
Tom



1. Creatures are neither foot nor mounted so those rules (gain & pursuit) do not apply unless explicitly stated. Offhand I can't remember what the rules say but I'm sure it's there if you look.

2.The Spider can store rolled lore. This is explicitly stated (note you cannot store more than the max required to use an ability). If it is not mentioned for other creatures then they cannot store lore.

3. Creatures can only take critical hits, check the rules. But, if a lore card says the 'unit' is 'destroyed' then this applies to the creature as it is considered a unit. Note the difference between standard hits (that cause potential criticals on creatures) and an entire unit being wiped due to a card wording. Remember, lore cards supercede basic rules.

4. Not used it yet.

5.That's how we play it. Lore tokens are only generated when lore rolls are not used for anything else.

Steve P

[Aktualisiert am: Thu, 07 December 2006 22:55]

      
eric
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Re:Creature Questions Thu, 07 December 2006 23:42
(Almost) all correct answers (see my other post later down this thread).
Regarding 4. the unit uses its melee attack (to do the summoning, instead. So a blue inf could only move 1 hex and summon, or move 2 hex and try to summon the next turn).
eric

[Aktualisiert am: Fri, 08 December 2006 00:50]

      
monkeylite
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Re:Creature Questions Fri, 08 December 2006 00:01
eric wrote on Thu, 07 December 2006 17:42

All correct answers...

Really? I don't get the Spider bit for (2). Surely *all* creatures can store power-ups, or have I misunderstood what Stenic is saying?

It seems to me he is saying that it must be specified if individual Creatures can store Lore; but the rules on p.44 talks about all Creatures, not just the Spider.

[Aktualisiert am: Fri, 08 December 2006 00:02]

      
SHwoKing
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Re:Creature Questions Fri, 08 December 2006 00:06
Eric, this time i'm not agree.

For 1/ where is it stated that a creature cannot gain ground ? I agree that it cannot pursuit adn do a bonus attack, but a Gain ground ? On page 41 the rule say that if not stated a creature move and fight like infantry with the same banner color.

*EDIT*

As you stated yourself Eric and you Stenic in another topic

Stenic

So, foot/creatures may only gain ground but mounted units may gain ground and move zero or one further hex and be considered in 'pursuit' and thus get a bonus melee attack.

Steve P


Eric

Correct


But Stenic stated in this topic

Stenic

Creatures are neither foot nor mounted so those rules (gain & pursuit) do not apply unless explicitly stated


This is why i'm correcting this.
*/EDIT*

For 2/ The rule say Concentration apply for creature, not Spider only. As for Hill Giant's power, it takes effect every time a lore is roll, he cannot concentrate of course. But a Earth Elemental can concentrate IMHO to cast his powers.

For 3/ He is the full answer :
We already ask on the french forum what happened if a creature is trample by another unit. No answer yet but i would do as stated : You roll dice for each hit the creature should take. Every hit for this roll are reroll again. So if a lore card or anything say that this unit lose a figure, then you roll one dice first, if it hits, you reroll for critical hit.

Can you confirm this Eric please ?

4/ it's for me as you stated Eric

5/ Is as Stenic stated

[Aktualisiert am: Fri, 08 December 2006 00:14]

      
JMcL63
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Re:Creature Questions Fri, 08 December 2006 00:24
I also think that stenic's answer on #2 was incorrect. The rules for storing lore are not specific to the giant spider, they are the Power Up rules (pp.43-4). According to these rules, any creature can store lore. They can't store more lore than is required to power their most costly special ability, but they can hold stored lore for as long you like. That's how the rules read to me at least. Wink
      
eric
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Re:Creature Questions Fri, 08 December 2006 00:52
monkeylite wrote on Thu, 07 December 2006 15:01

eric wrote on Thu, 07 December 2006 17:42

All correct answers...

Really? I don't get the Spider bit for (2). Surely *all* creatures can store power-ups, or have I misunderstood what Stenic is saying?

It seems to me he is saying that it must be specified if individual Creatures can store Lore; but the rules on p.44 talks about all Creatures, not just the Spider.



I was reading too quickly (we're a bit busy, these days), that will teach me ! Embarassed

Yes, the rules are correct, of coursel. Storing up for power-ups is in no way specific to the Spider!
      
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Re:Creature Questions Fri, 08 December 2006 00:55
JMcL63 wrote on Thu, 07 December 2006 15:24

I also think that stenic's answer on #2 was incorrect. The rules for storing lore are not specific to the giant spider, they are the Power Up rules (pp.43-4). According to these rules, any creature can store lore. They can't store more lore than is required to power their most costly special ability, but they can hold stored lore for as long you like. That's how the rules read to me at least. Wink


Yes, entirely correct. That is how the rules are meant. Very Happy
      
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Re:Creature Questions Fri, 08 December 2006 01:01
SHwoKing wrote on Thu, 07 December 2006 15:06

Eric, this time i'm not agree.

For 1/ where is it stated that a creature cannot gain ground ? I agree that it cannot pursuit adn do a bonus attack, but a Gain ground ? On page 41 the rule say that if not stated a creature move and fight like infantry with the same banner color.

*EDIT*

As you stated yourself Eric and you Stenic in another topic

Stenic

So, foot/creatures may only gain ground but mounted units may gain ground and move zero or one further hex and be considered in 'pursuit' and thus get a bonus melee attack.

Steve P


Eric

Correct


But Stenic stated in this topic

Stenic

Creatures are neither foot nor mounted so those rules (gain & pursuit) do not apply unless explicitly stated


This is why i'm correcting this.



I was obviously reading Stenic's comment too fast. I think I should stop reading/writing for a couple of days. Laughing

As indicated on p 44, Creatures are neither foot nor mounted (so they cannot do a Pursuit, unless specified otherwise on the Creature's card); and (again, unless specified on the Creature's card) they move and battle _like_ similar banner-colored foot troops. So they can indeed take ground, just like a foot troop could, if the enemy vacates his hex or is killed.

Sorry for the confusion before.

eric
      
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Re:Creature Questions Fri, 08 December 2006 01:06
SHwoKing wrote on Thu, 07 December 2006 15:06


For 3/ He is the full answer :
We already ask on the french forum what happened if a creature is trample by another unit. No answer yet but i would do as stated : You roll dice for each hit the creature should take. Every hit for this roll are reroll again. So if a lore card or anything say that this unit lose a figure, then you roll one dice first, if it hits, you reroll for critical hit.

Can you confirm this Eric please ?



Whenever a hit is mentionned on a lore card, and a creature is involved, the rules for critical hits apply (ie hits are set aside and rerolled looking for the creature's color to score a crit and kill the creature outright).

Whenever a unit kill is mentionned (the Wizard's Fireball is a good example), then the creature is killed outright indeed (not critical hit roll required).

Hope this clarifies things.
      
SHwoKing
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Re:Creature Questions Fri, 08 December 2006 01:19
It is perfectly clear

I juste wanna ask one more question on the power of the hill Giant :
"The target unit MUST retreat 2 Hex each time a lore symbol is roll"

The Giant's owner can choose to use this power or store lore ? (so non concentration possible for Hill Giant)

OR the power must be cast for each lore symbol roll, no choice there ?
      
stenic
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Re:Creature Questions Fri, 08 December 2006 10:00
eric wrote on Thu, 07 December 2006 23:55

JMcL63 wrote on Thu, 07 December 2006 15:24

I also think that stenic's answer on #2 was incorrect. The rules for storing lore are not specific to the giant spider, they are the Power Up rules (pp.43-4). According to these rules, any creature can store lore. They can't store more lore than is required to power their most costly special ability, but they can hold stored lore for as long you like. That's how the rules read to me at least. Wink


Yes, entirely correct. That is how the rules are meant. Very Happy



Whoops. Sorry for the confusion, missed that one Embarassed

Steve P
      
zedster
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Re:Creature Questions Fri, 08 December 2006 10:12
SHwoKing's question is one that I have too. Does it make sense for the Hill Giant to store lore? Doesn't rolled lore act as the trigger for the effect AND decide the effect's magnitude? So the base example is - one lore rolled: Giant Pushback (as ever, optional, at attacking players discretion), unit must retreat 2 hexes. So can one lore be stored for future use? It wouldn't then be rolled lore.
      
Steerpike
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Re:Creature Questions Fri, 08 December 2006 11:46
Hi again,
Thanks for your help so far on resolving things... I think questions 1 & 4 have now been definitely answered. I think we're nearly there on 3, but I think there's still a whole bunch of questions about Creatures and Lore. So:

Creature powers mention a figure being killed ot lost from an enemy unit - is that the same as a hit?

Lore storing: Here's what makes sense to me, but I haven't got the rule book here to check. Any creature can store Lore, even for a 1 Lore power. However, there are details about timing and usage.

Timing:
I fighting a unit with my Giant Spider and roll two lore. Is it okay to use one Lore to web my opponent and put a Lore counter by the spider for later use?

Next turn I use the spider again against another unit, and roll two flags. Is it okay to a) Use my stored Lore token even though I rolled no Lore this turn? b) Decide to web my opponent after seeing the result of the roll (so it takes two hits from the two flags)?

Usage:
Previous answers seem to suggest that for powers that state "For each Lore rolled..." the Lore rolled are 'used up' by the power. For instance, the Hill Giant's Giant Pushback says "1 Lore: Target must retreat 2 hexes for each Lore rolled". So, If my Hill Giant (who has no stored Lore) rolls 3 Lore against an enemy unit, is one of the Lore used to power
the effect and therefore not available to contribute to the pushback? (In other words, in this example would the pushback be 4 hexes or 6 hexes?)

Also, is it specifically stated that Creatures can only use their powers when ordered? If I have a spider with 1 stored Lore next to the unit pushed back in the example above, can I Web them before the pushback occurs? (seems unlikely, but needs clarifying)

Cheers again!
Tom
      
SHwoKing
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Re:Creature Questions Fri, 08 December 2006 12:42
Steerpike écrit le Fri, 08 December 2006 11:46

Hi again,
Thanks for your help so far on resolving things... I think questions 1 & 4 have now been definitely answered. I think we're nearly there on 3, but I think there's still a whole bunch of questions about Creatures and Lore. So:

Creature powers mention a figure being killed ot lost from an enemy unit - is that the same as a hit?



I know what you mean, you mean that if they are count as hit, you just have to roll on more time for critical hit.

If they count as "possible hit", you have to roll first 1 d. per unit that should be lost, then re roll helmet matching banner color of the creature for critical hit. Other Helmet color, flag, etc are ignored in the first roll unless stated and always ignored on the second.

I would say it is the second option. Like the way you play an impossible retreat for a Creature P. 41.

Steerpike écrit le Fri, 08 December 2006 11:46


Lore storing: Here's what makes sense to me, but I haven't got the rule book here to check. Any creature can store Lore, even for a 1 Lore power. However, there are details about timing and usage.

Timing:
I fighting a unit with my Giant Spider and roll two lore. Is it okay to use one Lore to web my opponent and put a Lore counter by the spider for later use?


Yes this perfectly possible in this exemple.

Steerpike écrit le Fri, 08 December 2006 11:46


Next turn I use the spider again against another unit, and roll two flags. Is it okay to a) Use my stored Lore token even though I rolled no Lore this turn? b) Decide to web my opponent after seeing the result of the roll (so it takes two hits from the two flags)?


For me it is possible and a good tactic to do more damage.

There is another exemple. You have stored two lore token for the spider, you attack with her with two dice and obtain one Lore Symbol and a hit with Helmet. You choose to cast the poison on the unit, what happened ?

- the lore symbol rolled count as hit ?
- can i cast a web + poison on this unit ?
- can i store this lore symbol for the spider ?

I think you can do what you want, you just have to chose the order :
- First i cast poison, then the lore symbol rolled count as hit. The lore symbol remaining cannot be use to store nor cast a web cause now every lore symbol count as hit, i guess you cannot chose
- First i cast Web, then poison, the lore symbol is already used, no hit there
- First i store the lore symbol in my gobelet (lore stored for creature is full) then cast poison, no hit there.

Waiting for answer.

Steerpike écrit le Fri, 08 December 2006 11:46


Usage:
Previous answers seem to suggest that for powers that state "For each Lore rolled..." the Lore rolled are 'used up' by the power. For instance, the Hill Giant's Giant Pushback says "1 Lore: Target must retreat 2 hexes for each Lore rolled". So, If my Hill Giant (who has no stored Lore) rolls 3 Lore against an enemy unit, is one of the Lore used to power
the effect and therefore not available to contribute to the pushback? (In other words, in this example would the pushback be 4 hexes or 6 hexes?)


If you chose to use your 3 lore symbol, the target unit must retreat 6 hex. It's even regardless of a unit boldness as these are not flags.

Plus, on page

P. 44 : Trigger a Creature's special power is always optional, the player which conrol the creature choose.

So finally i think triggering the Hill Giant power is the choice of its owner. So if you roll 3 lore symbol you've got many many option avalaible :

- 1 lore stored for the Hill Giant when his special power would be very usefull (target unit without possible retreat), the two other can be both used to trigger special power or store lore in your lore gobelet (cause your lore pool for the creature is already full, you can choose then to store lore in your gobelet, check page 44)

- cast the special power 3 time (not always usefull)

- So and so ...

I think the creature's owner choose dice per dice the effect of each lore symbol like i said for the spider exemple.

Exemple, Hill giant roll3 lore symbol :

- first dice, i choose to store it for the hill Giant
- Second dice, i choose to store in my Gobelet as my concnetration pool is full
- third Dice, i choose to trigger the power.

This would be fairly simple like this.

Let's wait for Eric's answer. (*cough* Poor Eric *cough*)

Steerpike écrit le Fri, 08 December 2006 11:46

Also, is it specifically stated that Creatures can only use their powers when ordered? If I have a spider with 1 stored Lore next to the unit pushed back in the example above, can I Web them before the pushback occurs? (seems unlikely, but needs clarifying)


It is stated anywhere but if you could trigger a Creature's power without activating it, that would be silly so i sure it is not possible.

[Aktualisiert am: Fri, 08 December 2006 12:50]

      
monkeylite
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Re:Creature Questions Fri, 08 December 2006 12:48
Steerpike wrote on Fri, 08 December 2006 05:46

Hi again,
Thanks for your help so far on resolving things... I think questions 1 & 4 have now been definitely answered. I think we're nearly there on 3, but I think there's still a whole bunch of questions about Creatures and Lore. So:

Creature powers mention a figure being killed ot lost from an enemy unit - is that the same as a hit?


Yes.
Quote:


Lore storing: Here's what makes sense to me, but I haven't got the rule book here to check. Any creature can store Lore, even for a 1 Lore power. However, there are details about timing and usage.

Timing:
I fighting a unit with my Giant Spider and roll two lore. Is it okay to use one Lore to web my opponent and put a Lore counter by the spider for later use?


Yes.
Quote:


Next turn I use the spider again against another unit, and roll two flags. Is it okay to a) Use my stored Lore token even though I rolled no Lore this turn? b) Decide to web my opponent after seeing the result of the roll (so it takes two hits from the two flags)?


a) Yes.
b) Yes.
Quote:


Usage:
Previous answers seem to suggest that for powers that state "For each Lore rolled..." the Lore rolled are 'used up' by the power. For instance, the Hill Giant's Giant Pushback says "1 Lore: Target must retreat 2 hexes for each Lore rolled". So, If my Hill Giant (who has no stored Lore) rolls 3 Lore against an enemy unit, is one of the Lore used to power
the effect and therefore not available to contribute to the pushback? (In other words, in this example would the pushback be 4 hexes or 6 hexes?)


No. The "For each Lore rolled" *is* referring to the Lore used to power the ability. So, in this example you could either Pushback 6 hexes, or Pushback 4 hexes and Power-up one Lore.
Quote:


Also, is it specifically stated that Creatures can only use their powers when ordered? If I have a spider with 1 stored Lore next to the unit pushed back in the example above, can I Web them before the pushback occurs? (seems unlikely, but needs clarifying)


I'd say they'd have to be under orders and you must activate the Spider ability before you roll the Giant's attack.

all imo, oc.


Edit: Beaten to it, and probably better answers rom SHwoKing!

[Aktualisiert am: Fri, 08 December 2006 12:55]

      
SHwoKing
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Re:Creature Questions Fri, 08 December 2006 13:18
monkeylite écrit le Fri, 08 December 2006 12:48

Steerpike wrote on Fri, 08 December 2006 05:46

Hi again,
Thanks for your help so far on resolving things... I think questions 1 & 4 have now been definitely answered. I think we're nearly there on 3, but I think there's still a whole bunch of questions about Creatures and Lore. So:

Creature powers mention a figure being killed ot lost from an enemy unit - is that the same as a hit?


Yes.


So this would mean that the impossible retreat case for a Creature is special.

The basic rule say for unit : You lose one figure per hex that cannot be retreated. So i guess you can say : you take a hit for every hex you cannot retreated.

But for Creature the rule say : for every hex you cannot retreated, you roll a dice, for every helmet matching the banner color, you reroll. If one of the dice mathc the color, the creature is killed.

But in fact i would prefer to consider any other form of "1 unit loss" except for retreat to be counted as hit rather than possible hit. Creature tend to be very hard to kill.

PS : sorry for my bad english, it's kinda hard to explain sometimes

[Aktualisiert am: Fri, 08 December 2006 13:19]

      
zedster
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Re:Creature Questions Fri, 08 December 2006 13:30
I am not so sure the Hill Giant can store lore. See my comment 5 comments above.
      
monkeylite
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Re:Creature Questions Fri, 08 December 2006 13:31
SHwoKing wrote on Fri, 08 December 2006 07:18


So this would mean that the impossible retreat case for a Creature is special.

The basic rule say for unit : You lose one figure per hex that cannot be retreated. So i guess you can say : you take a hit for every hex you cannot retreated.

But for Creature the rule say : for every hex you cannot retreated, you roll a dice, for every helmet matching the banner color, you reroll. If one of the dice mathc the color, the creature is killed.

But in fact i would prefer to consider any other form of "1 unit loss" except for retreat to be counted as hit rather than possible hit. Creature tend to be very hard to kill.

PS : sorry for my bad english, it's kinda hard to explain sometimes


Yes, I had a problem with the Creature Retreat rules and had to read them several times. I was expecting Creature Retreat to be similar to the normal Retreat rules, and so require just one extra critical roll. In fact (and the rules p. 43 mention this specifically) Creature Retreats are more similar to *Panic Loss* than normal Retreat. That, I believe, is why you must roll twice in that instance.

So, the way I look at it, Creatures always have just that *one* extra roll for Critical Hits whenever they take a normal hit.

Impossible Retreat for Creatures only looks special if you think of it as a type of retreat, but in fact, it's not, it's a type of Panic Loss.

imo

[Aktualisiert am: Fri, 08 December 2006 13:39]

      
monkeylite
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Re:Creature Questions Fri, 08 December 2006 13:37
zedster wrote on Fri, 08 December 2006 07:30

I am not so sure the Hill Giant can store lore. See my comment 5 comments above.

Imo you can still store. The Elemental card also talks about 'Lore rolled.'
      
zedster
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Re:Creature Questions Fri, 08 December 2006 14:48
Following my logic the Earth Elemental would be able to store up for it's 2 lore ability but not it's 1 lore ability.
      
Steerpike
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Re:Creature Questions Fri, 08 December 2006 14:53
zedster wrote on Fri, 08 December 2006 08:48

Following my logic the Earth Elemental would be able to store up for it's 2 lore ability but not it's 1 lore ability.



But can the spider store up for its 1 Lore ability? I would say yes (it could certainly be useful to do so, as in the example I gave earlier), and if the Spider can do it why can't other creatures?
      
zedster
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Re:Creature Questions Fri, 08 December 2006 15:00
I have no problem with the spider storing lore. It's just that if the hill giant and elemental were supposed to be able to store lore for their 1 lore abilities then the cards might better have read 'rolled lore plus any stored lore', or something to that effect.
      
Steerpike
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Re:Creature Questions Fri, 08 December 2006 15:08
I think I'm not explaining myself very well about this whole Lore thing... and I think some people see what I'm getting at (whether they agree with me is another matter entirely Razz) and some don't.

Here's another way of putting it: In Magic: the Gathering there is (was?) a card called Pestilence. It had the effect that you could spend X Black mana to do X damage to every creature and player. It was later reworded so that you could spend 1 Black mana to do 1 damage. Obviously you could do this as many times as you liked, so it sort of amounted to the same thing (I won't get into discussions about Circles of Protection here!).

Now, could it be that Giant Pushback should actually be worded as follows?:
"1 Lore: Target must retreat 2 hexes"
In other words, each Lore rolled generates a Lore token and that Lore token can be spent to push the Target back 2 hexes.
This would get around the confusion that exists (in my mind at least) between Lore used to trigger a power, and "Lore rolled".

Sorry if this doesn't make much sense - I don't think it's entirely my fault... it just doesn't seem very explicit in the rules exactly how this all works...

Cheers,
Tom

[Aktualisiert am: Fri, 08 December 2006 15:40]

      
monkeylite
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Re:Creature Questions Fri, 08 December 2006 15:18
Steerpike wrote on Fri, 08 December 2006 09:08


Now, could it be that Giant Pushback should actually be worded as follows?:
"1 Lore: Target must retreat 2 hexes"


I agree that for the way I have interpreted things, that would be better wording.
      
zedster
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Re:Creature Questions Fri, 08 December 2006 23:10
Please can we have an official ruling on the whole lore rolled versus stored lore controversy!?
      
eric
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Re:Creature Questions Sat, 09 December 2006 00:09
We are working hard on getting the Creatures Compendium and a few other things (Adventure editor, etc..) up and running. Answers will follow shortly thereafter.

eric
      
ColtsFan77
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Re:Creature Questions Sat, 09 December 2006 14:39
I finally got the game and spent the night reading the rules. I skimmed through this thread so i may have missed the point of the questions. Obviously, this is not "official" but the questions seem pretty clear and appear to me to be answered in the book already.

The rules state that a Creature may power up by storing Lore tokens on the current roll for any future battle. However, you are limited in the number of Lore you may store based on the number of lore tokens needed for the special ability with the maximum number.

So for example, the Giant Spider has two "lore" abilities - 1) Web which costs 1 token and 2) Poison which costs 2 tokens. So the maximum number of tokens stored up can never go above 2. if you collect a third token you must 1) use any of the special powers right away or 2) put the additional tokens in your goblet.

This tells me that you can use the Power up for both Webs and Poison if you choose not use either at the time you rolled the dice and got the Lore symbols.

For the Hill Giant, his special power costs 1 Lore Token. So he can never store more than 1 Lore Token. As soon as he rolls a 2nd Lore symbol, the unit must retreat 2 Hexes or you must put the lore token in your goblet. the way you guys think it should be worded for it to make sense to you does seem to be the intent of the design. if a Hill Giant rolls lore symbols, you need to determine if it is better to force the unit to retreat now, save the lore token to force him to retreat later, or take the lore tokens and put it in your goblet.

I hope I have added to conversation instead of being repetitive or more confusing. All of this seems to be clear on pages 44 and 45 of the rule book.
      
SHwoKing
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Re:Creature Questions Sat, 09 December 2006 17:02
Quiet a good way to explain it clearly Steerpike Thumbs Up.

Also not that choosing to put a Lore token in your goblet i only possible when the creature's concentration pool is full.

[Aktualisiert am: Sat, 09 December 2006 17:02]

      
zedster
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Re:Creature Questions Sat, 09 December 2006 18:43
Rephrasing my problem with the earth elemental/hill giant 1 lore abilities: say in any given roll I come up with two lore and I wanted to use, say, giant pushback - does 1 rolled lore go towards paying for/activating the ability and the other to deciding that, yes, the opposing unit is pushed back 2 hexes, or can both lore go towards pushing back 4 hexes? (no stored lore in this example)

[Aktualisiert am: Sat, 09 December 2006 18:44]

      
SHwoKing
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Re:Creature Questions Sat, 09 December 2006 18:46
zedster wrote on Sat, 09 December 2006 18:43

Rephrasing my problem with the earth elemental/hill giant 1 lore abilities: say in any given roll I come up with two lore and I wanted to use, say, giant pushback - does 1 rolled lore go towards paying for/activating the ability and the other to deciding that, yes, the opposing unit is pushed back 2 hexes, or can both lore go towards pushing back 4 hexes? (no stored lore in this example)


Both lore go towards pushing back 4 hexes.
      
ColtsFan77
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Re:Creature Questions Sat, 09 December 2006 18:53
SHwoKing wrote on Sat, 09 December 2006 11:46

zedster wrote on Sat, 09 December 2006 18:43

Rephrasing my problem with the earth elemental/hill giant 1 lore abilities: say in any given roll I come up with two lore and I wanted to use, say, giant pushback - does 1 rolled lore go towards paying for/activating the ability and the other to deciding that, yes, the opposing unit is pushed back 2 hexes, or can both lore go towards pushing back 4 hexes? (no stored lore in this example)


Both lore go towards pushing back 4 hexes.


Agreed - if you choose to use all the lore rolled this round for the special bonus, then you hould be able to force a unit to retreat 4 hexes.
      
zedster
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Re:Creature Questions Sat, 09 December 2006 18:53
OK. So if I had 1 stored lore and rolled 2 lore I could use all 3 to force a 6 hex retreat?
      
SHwoKing
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Re:Creature Questions Sat, 09 December 2006 18:54
zedster wrote on Sat, 09 December 2006 18:53

OK. So if I had 1 stored lore and rolled 2 lore I could use all 3 to force a 6 hex retreat?


I assume yes. Nothing is said about limiting the occurence of a special power.

[Aktualisiert am: Sat, 09 December 2006 18:56]

      
zedster
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Re:Creature Questions Sat, 09 December 2006 19:07
Yes, I take your point. My problem is that stored lore is not 'rolled' lore but, hey, I can get over that. Consequently, the concept of paying for an ability goes out of the window for this particular ability if lore contributes directly to the effect.
      
ColtsFan77
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Re:Creature Questions Sat, 09 December 2006 19:11
SHwoKing wrote on Sat, 09 December 2006 11:54

zedster wrote on Sat, 09 December 2006 18:53

OK. So if I had 1 stored lore and rolled 2 lore I could use all 3 to force a 6 hex retreat?


I assume yes. Nothing is said about limiting the occurence of a special power.


Sounds right. The concept is to store up their power. So imagine a Hill giant swing for the fences and knocks your unit right off their feet and across the board. Works for me!
      
Steerpike
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Re:Creature Questions Sat, 09 December 2006 19:18
For what it's worth I agree as well, which is why (if our interpretation is correct) I have a problem with the Giant Pushback wording "1 Lore: Target must retreat 2 hexes for each Lore rolled" (because in the example just given, you actually only rolled 2 Lore)
      
zedster
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Re:Creature Questions Sat, 09 December 2006 19:30
ColtsFan76, you would love the possible 8 hex retreat! Laughing
      
eric
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Re:Creature Questions Sat, 09 December 2006 19:33
SHwoKing wrote on Sat, 09 December 2006 09:46

zedster wrote on Sat, 09 December 2006 18:43

Rephrasing my problem with the earth elemental/hill giant 1 lore abilities: say in any given roll I come up with two lore and I wanted to use, say, giant pushback - does 1 rolled lore go towards paying for/activating the ability and the other to deciding that, yes, the opposing unit is pushed back 2 hexes, or can both lore go towards pushing back 4 hexes? (no stored lore in this example)


Both lore go towards pushing back 4 hexes.



Correct.
      
SHwoKing
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Re:Creature Questions Sat, 09 December 2006 19:41
eric écrit le Sat, 09 December 2006 19:33

SHwoKing wrote on Sat, 09 December 2006 09:46

zedster wrote on Sat, 09 December 2006 18:43

Rephrasing my problem with the earth elemental/hill giant 1 lore abilities: say in any given roll I come up with two lore and I wanted to use, say, giant pushback - does 1 rolled lore go towards paying for/activating the ability and the other to deciding that, yes, the opposing unit is pushed back 2 hexes, or can both lore go towards pushing back 4 hexes? (no stored lore in this example)


Both lore go towards pushing back 4 hexes.



Correct.


Yeah ! Next time, i will play bowling with my opponent's Spider using the Hill Giant and strike my opponent's army standing on the Spider's path Laughing

[Aktualisiert am: Sat, 09 December 2006 19:44]

      
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