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*player271131
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Etiquette Guidelines Sat, 16 December 2006 09:34
A good point was made by Erps and Lea and I am sure a viewpoint shared by many of you.

These guidelines should be applied to ALL players we play even if they might not apply them for us. Hopefully they are written in such a way that we can apply them to everyone regardless. The more times we do this for other players, especially the low ranked ones, the more people will learn and understand respectful behavior. I am sure if many of the competitive players did this for everyone we would see a large increase over time of others doing it also. People learn by seeing what is done (those that do not read these). I was going to put an exception in here for those players who are well known to not follow the guidelines but after thinking about it perhaps we should show them respect even if they would not do the same. Who knows maybe they will come around also after they are the beneficiaries of respect given to them.

Ethical Guidelines

Simplified list

1. I will wait for an opponent if they ask me to

2. If the waiting is long enough so that the bot makes two moves I will leave the game to finish later

3. I will not quit games except for certain reasons

4. If in the case of my continued unintentional play vs. bot and the botted player asks for a cancellation I will grant such.

5. I will continue to play the game even if while disconnected the bot made several moves for me but no serious harm was done.

6. I will not conspire deliberately with another player(s) in multi games against other players.


Now, it is too bad we have to expand on these since not everyone has the same ideas about them.

Expanded definitions

1. I will stop playing and wait for my opponent

a. If they ask me too for a few minutes i.e. something required their attention at home
b. Or if they are replaced by a bot.

2. If more than 5 minutes passes (thus forcing me to move) while I am waiting and the bot makes a 2nd move I will leave the game before the bot makes a 3rd move and try to reschedule with my opponent.

RARE exceptions to be made based on your individual judgment if it is obvious the person was losing the game and left on their own.

3. I will NEVER leave a game on purpose unless I tell my opponent I am leaving. When I inform them I am leaving I will also tell them one of several things

a. They can continue playing on because even though I might win I do not care if they want to finish vs. the bot.

b. I can ask them to leave also and reschedule (however this should be VERY RARE)

c. I can basically resign a hopeless game and say "you win, I have to go please feel free to continue vs. the bot (not to be used often) this is done in chess and is perfectly acceptable, too bad there is not a resign button where the game can just be ended.

d. I can request the game be cancelled. My opponent does NOT have to agree to this and if they do not they should in most cases be willing to reschedule the game.

e. I understand that players COULD abuse these requests, so in most cases if I have to go I accept the blame and so will have my opponents continue vs. the bot if that is what they desire

4. If I unintentionally continue a game beyond 2 bot moves and the opposing player asks for a cancellation because the bot did very harmful moves I will grant this provided the opposing player reveals their tickets.

b. I will submit a screenshot if requested of such tickets and colors showing that the bot really messed things up. Screenshots are taken by pressing the print screen button on your keyboard. This takes a snapshot and puts in on the clipboard like copy and paste does. Open a word document and paste right after you click print screen and it will transfer the image over. Save word document.

5. Disconnects happen and sometimes our opponents do not see we have been gone for a few moves.

a. If the bot did not seriously harm my game I will continue to play even if some harm was done. It's only a few points per game and lets not take this too seriously! Smile

b. If the bot only did one move I will continue regardless of what the bot did.

6. Deliberately conspire means communicating with someone else in the game through voice or typing or even mentioning possibilities through type and wondering if anyone will help with a block. Play that happens to work together against some other player if done without any communication during the game or arrangements beforehand is completely acceptable of course.



Okkkkaayyy I'm not an English major so yes, I know it could have been written better but I think the gist is mostly right. After some suggestions and fine-tuning I hope we can get enough agreement to make these actual real guidelines for most of us. Maybe we can even convince DoW to e-mail a copy to all players signed up for announcements Smile

Sincerely,

Baron



[Aktualisiert am: Sun, 17 December 2006 20:11]

      
pacmon
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Sat, 16 December 2006 19:15
I agree to all with one exception...

On number 3: I never agree to that the other player can with my permission finish the game against the bot. I can promise that I don't quit games unless it's absolutely necessary, for example some kind of emergency at home. I also promise that I'm always willing to resume the game later as soon as it's possible. Of course the other player just has to trust me because he/she can't know for sure if I'll ever come back and finish the game. I hope most of the people here can trust that I keep my promises. If I don't, please feel free to comment it here on the forums.


      
Rip VanWinkle
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Sun, 17 December 2006 00:49
Agree to all except 4b because I dont know how to capture a screenshot - if the other player can talk me through it, I would be willing to do it tho.
      
Blizzard7
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Sun, 17 December 2006 20:55
leere Nachricht

[Aktualisiert am: Sat, 03 February 2007 15:11]

      
Zeno
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Sun, 17 December 2006 20:56
I'm a stickler about definitions, so instead of listing caveats, exceptions and such, I will just say:

I accept the spirit of the guidelines


Nope, sorry, can't resist. #6 is too fun to bend. Half the reason for playing multi is the chat. Strategy is all messed up because the biggest problem is how many people have tickets in your zone. There is more time between moves, so more time to type. Most of the chat is about other stuff, but sometimes it is a comment on another player's position. Such chat can be in fun or have a hidden strategic value (or both Twisted Evil ). As a friend of mine who used to run a midway booth at a carnival used to say to his customers "lean a little, cheat a little, have a little fun." Having said this, if I ever go too far, and it is clear that I have offended someone, I will tone it down or eliminate it. I am only likely to do this against people I know, and I don't mind if they do it against me so long as I am not the target more than my share of the time. I also realize that the more I do it to others, the more I should allow others to do it to me.
      
gma54
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Sun, 17 December 2006 23:50
Wow, sounds good, I guess. Hope I've never offended anyone. I don't recall ever leaving a game on purpose, however, I have been bumped off because of computer problems, but usually able to resume the game. The bot has made some dumb moves, but what the heck, it's just a game.
      
kbhanson
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Mon, 18 December 2006 00:59
I agree to follow these etiquette guidelines to the best of my ability.
      
RFAD - Saint-Emilion
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Mon, 18 December 2006 01:05
ERPS ou es-tu ??? Bad Baron Bad essaye de te piquer ta place de grand regent de la vie du rail !!!!!


sorry, but i can't translate this... my english is a desastre and... it's late...
      
Mr Bean
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Mon, 18 December 2006 02:30
No problem with these guidelines as they conform with the way i play already anyway.

As one who 'plays all' however i probably see a little more of people leaving the game with or without notice than most and it's NOT very rare that this seems to be because they feel the game is lost, so if it looks like one of these to me, i wait a little while and finish anyway (guideline #2).
Of course, if you know the player concerned it's different.

One last note: don't hit too hard on people who play on against a bot. I did myself until someone pointed out this might be somewhat unsportsmanlike. It just never occurred to me before and also i was afraid it might affect karma if i left and i'm pretty sure others have the same ideas.
The better the player the more we can expect them to realize that they should wait (or quit), but some who play on will do so 'with a clear conscience'.
It might be sufficient to just point out they shouldn't in the future.
      
Mr Bean
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Mon, 18 December 2006 02:33
Requiem For A Dream wrote on Mon, 18 December 2006 01:05

ERPS ou es-tu ??? Bad Baron Bad essaye de te piquer ta place de grand regent de la vie du rail !!!!!


sorry, but i can't translate this... my english is a desastre and... it's late...



I think he's calling on Erps to (re)act because Bad Baron is taking over his place as the great patron of TTR Razz
      
thadd
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Mon, 18 December 2006 02:43
I didn't change my opinion since erps thread.
What about being a bit more polite and not starting to insult other players and accusing for unfair play before coming up with noble ideas?

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 18 December 2006 02:47]

      
my last day
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Mon, 18 December 2006 02:55
leere Nachricht

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 18 December 2006 03:00]

      
SKMorefield
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Mon, 18 December 2006 02:56
Mr Bean wrote on Sun, 17 December 2006 20:33

Requiem For A Dream wrote on Mon, 18 December 2006 01:05

ERPS ou es-tu ??? Bad Baron Bad essaye de te piquer ta place de grand regent de la vie du rail !!!!!


sorry, but i can't translate this... my english is a desastre and... it's late...



I think he's calling on Erps to (re)act because Bad Baron is taking over his place as the great patron of TTR Razz



The only way anyone could take erp's place is if someone could come up with the same tools (or better!) he has on his website. Very Happy


Mr Bean, is that you on your avatar or the Pope? Confused



      
SKMorefield
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Mon, 18 December 2006 02:58
leere Nachricht

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 18 December 2006 03:26]

      
my last day
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Mon, 18 December 2006 02:59
leere Nachricht

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 18 December 2006 02:59]

      
SKMorefield
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Mon, 18 December 2006 03:03
leere Nachricht

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 18 December 2006 03:25]

      
my last day
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Mon, 18 December 2006 03:07
leere Nachricht

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 18 December 2006 03:11]

      
*player271131
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Mon, 18 December 2006 03:13
leere Nachricht

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 18 December 2006 03:25]

      
SKMorefield
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Mon, 18 December 2006 03:16
Posts removed per agreement to wait for Baron's explanation...

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 18 December 2006 04:19]

      
*player271131
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Mon, 18 December 2006 03:19
leere Nachricht

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 18 December 2006 03:24]

      
thadd
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Mon, 18 December 2006 03:21
this is getting a soap opera, stay tuned...
      
Rip VanWinkle
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Mon, 18 December 2006 03:29
what the heck is [no message body]? is that a deleted post, or a no comment?
      
thekid
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Mon, 18 December 2006 03:46
Baron (Allaka bubu or whatever else you're gonna change to) you know I like you, (you know there's gonna be a but here), but if you want true etiquette, stop hiding behind other names and accounts.

Sincerely,

thekid - here

thekid - BSW

thekid - Yucata.de

thekid - Spielbyweb

thekid - Mabiweb

thekid - Ludoholic

thekid - flexgames

the_kid - BGG (other was already taken)

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 18 December 2006 03:51]

      
thadd
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Mon, 18 December 2006 03:52
Oh wow, should we now all delete our messages? this is pathetic!
      
Rip VanWinkle
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Mon, 18 December 2006 04:19
seriously, i dont get it... except for the sense of drama and that the once mellow baron has been waken from his winter hibernation and is out for a meal! ps: i have never been anything but Rip VanWinkle.

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 18 December 2006 04:20]

      
*player271131
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Mon, 18 December 2006 04:43
thadd wrote on Sun, 17 December 2006 19:52

Oh wow, should we now all delete our messages? this is pathetic!


Not really Thadd. You shouldn't speak of what you do not know. SKM removed his posts for a good reason and because I explained something to him.

First kid I wasn't hiding behind an account. I said to you and everyone else here one month ago ...well let me just find it...

Baron Von Schmidt wrote on Fri, 17 November 2006 12:01

Hi

If Baron wanted a "good spot" in the rankings Baron could easily do so. In fact since you bring it up, let's do it and show how faulty the overall rankings can be right now. Look for a new person in the top 20 in the next month. (no cheating of course, none at all).



There you go. I told everyone I was going to have a new identity and to even look for it. I didn't want to say Baron 3 or something since I did not want games affected as I tried to see what could be done with the new ratings. I also wanted a chance to play with people who refuse to play with Baron. Something that DID actually happen.

The idea was first to play 20 2 player USA games and do really well and get a totally unearned spot in the overall top 20 to show that the overall ranking wasn't overall at all.

Well guess what. Somehow I ended up winning only 8 of 20 games (HORRIBLE HOW COULD THAT EVEN HAPPEN!) So THAT idea was out the window. Tried to do some multis but no one good would play multis with a no name with a not great rating. So had to get the rating up a bit and at least be around from time to time. Finally got to play a multi with spud and two lower ranked players. Won and now have a lovely 1826 multi score. Yes I know , totally means nothing.

I was never going to say a word until I ran into ol kbhanson. You know the story from there.

So I wanted an account to be anonymous to play with the new ratings? So what. You all know I don't do it to cheat, get undeserved points, boost ratings or take anyone down.

I told everyone openly I was going to make a new account and try to make a point. Losing 12 of my first 20 didn't really make that possible. Well at least it shows I certainly didn't cheat! lol.

So great, congratulations people, you have outed yet another person who wanted an account to just play and have fun and try new things with. Don't even know why you care if I'm not trying to do anything underhanded with it. If I had been able to win more of the first 20 and showed how the overall rating can be manipulated and not be a true accurate showing of skill I would have camped there for a bit while I heard every top 20 player yell at Allahu Akbar and say how his skill is bad and hear it from THEMSELVES how the overall is not accurate. Then Allahu Akbar would have lost a ton of games in a row to guests and dissapeared.

Changing his name to Baron something, hope that will make you all happy.

Baron

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 18 December 2006 23:05]

      
*player271131
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Mon, 18 December 2006 04:49
thadd wrote on Sun, 17 December 2006 20:43

I didn't change my opinion since erps thread.
What about being a bit more polite and not starting to insult other players and accusing for unfair play before coming up with noble ideas?
'

If you haven't changed your mind then there was no need to respond.

I have always had noble ideas thadd and sometimes I won't be polite. Get over it.

Don't think I ever used the word unfair. And I can choose to not play with players who I think would block me in multi just to see me lose worse than play their own tickets to the best of their ability.

I completely understand the principle of blocking in multi to make someone do worse than you so you do better. I have done this myself and will continue to do it when I feel it might help and won't care when it happens to me.

When you are winning however, (or think you might) and you block them just to hurt that one specific person, well...that is pretty dumb to me. Just my opinion.

When that block does nothing to the player that would not already have happened (I was going to take 4th anyway just lost by many more points) and it costs YOU the win. Well...that is just funny. Smile
      
erps
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Mon, 18 December 2006 11:55
leere Nachricht/messsage deleted/something in french

....

Mr Bean schrieb am Mon, 18 December 2006 02:33

Requiem For A Dream wrote on Mon, 18 December 2006 01:05

ERPS ou es-tu ??? Bad Baron Bad essaye de te piquer ta place de grand regent de la vie du rail !!!!!


sorry, but i can't translate this... my english is a desastre and... it's late...


I think he's calling on Erps to (re)act because Bad Baron is taking over his place as the great patron of TTR Razz


Ha! As truly ELECTED PRESIDENT of this COMMUNITY (see at Shamogi's Website!!) i stand above such feeble attempts. I learned my lessons and now as a elder statesman i am the voice of wisdom as even my greatest critic had to admit lately Wink

As in normal life i believe there is no "overall valid ethic" in this game, only some basic guidelines most of all players would agree. But it is nearly impossible to have even 2 players share the same opinion in ALL points regarding this game (of course SKM and me are close Smile).

So, live and let die. Ups, sorry, wrong cite: Live and let live i mean Twisted Evil

No i will not sign any rules anymore.

bye, erps

P.S. FIVE threads to find out that Baron has hundred accounts in the top 50 and some players are playing vs the bot is pathetic Wink I earned my 880 posts with mature and elaborate postings! (well, most of the time Cool )

[Aktualisiert am: Mon, 18 December 2006 12:00]

      
Elric - Sancerre
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Mon, 18 December 2006 12:21
You know, erps, I always said that Frenchies really liked you (at least, most of them Wink )... I think it will be even more right now.

Thank you for what you wrote here, and also recently in the thread about a "black list" Cool

Elric.

PS : and, of course, like for the previous "e-Ticket-te" (remember, old friends Rolling Eyes Very Happy ), I won't sign any ethical guidelines or whatever similar... absolutely not necessary, and useless !
      
Goan
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Mon, 18 December 2006 17:30
Hmm,

In my opinion the only thing one should make (etiquette) play rules about is how to handle with Bots.

I don't think one should make rules about situations which civilized people handle them in a sensible/correct way.

Goan
      
player 577453
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Mon, 18 December 2006 22:28
I agree to apply some of the rules some of the time Very Happy Very Happy
      
Peter de Zeeuw
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Ridiculous Guidelines Tue, 19 December 2006 15:12
Disagree.

Play me at your own risk.

D.I.S.
      
Rip VanWinkle
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Wed, 20 December 2006 03:13
actually, I am going to change my answer and go with Peter. I will respect tops as always, but anyone within a hundred points of me or lower can expect the non-frosted side of this mini-wheat!

let's keep it interesting!
      
my last day
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Thu, 21 December 2006 03:52
leere Nachricht

[Aktualisiert am: Tue, 29 May 2007 00:07]

      
Rip VanWinkle
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Re:Etiquette Guidelines Fri, 22 December 2006 02:30
how can you fully appreciate the force if you do not also study the dark side? and respect come two ways: giving and earning. You give to whom you chose and you should recognize those who earn. I do both, unless my master Kim Jong Il tells me to do otherwise.

Lets just keep this between me and him okay? Laughing while typing...

...and I am sure I wont get on anyones bad side. My half-accountant Peter is paying off the tops and tweaking my books to keep me in good graces. If any tops recieve a large anonymous deposit in their bank account on Monday, they'll know who its from.

[Aktualisiert am: Fri, 22 December 2006 02:39]

      
    
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