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dickens1853
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February 2006
  Battlelore fun with more than 2 players? Thu, 13 December 2007 15:35
I noticed that Battlelore is a 2 player game, or 2 teams. Without purchasing an expansion set, is it still fun to play teams, or is it not feasible?

Also, with the Epic expansion, apparently you can play with either 2, 4 or 6 players. But is the 4 player version only possible with another full copy of the game (I think this is called Reluctant Allies), or can you play with 4 people without purchasing a full copy of the game, only using the Epic expansion? And why not play with 3 or 5 people - does it always have to be an even number of people?

My reason for asking is I'm trying to decide whether or not to purchase the game, and I'm not used to playing games with such limitations on the number of people that can play.

Thanks,

Jim Hawkins
      
dbc-
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December 2006
Re:Battlelore fun with more than 2 players? Thu, 13 December 2007 16:57
Reluctant Allies is my preferred way to play. I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to play "RA" on a single board. However there might be a problem with the number of units available in only one set. Each player should be able to field at least four units in each section for the system to work properly. With one set you'll have 13 and 15 units each, depending on which side you play. So it'll just reach the margin. In other words, the entire set will have to be used in every game, leaving no room for experimentation.
But if you later decide to buy some of the expansions, there will be no problems, as I see it.
As regards to playing 3, you'll have to use the rules from RA and let one player control two armies, one each turn. I have done this against newbies and it has worked very well. 5 or 6 players is only possible if you play with some kind of commander, like in Memoir-44. I'm not sure how well suited it is.

Hope that helps.
      
ColtsFan77
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Re:Battlelore fun with more than 2 players? Thu, 13 December 2007 17:05
I haven't played multi-player but Reluctant Allies seems to be the way to go based on reading the rules. It is for 4 players and lets each player have his own army. All other attempts at multi-player in the C&C system makes additional players subordinate to one Commander-in-Chief per side. Then they basically become miniature pushers for the CinC, having little to no choice in the card the receive.

And I think to enjoy RA completely, you at least need to pick up the Epic expansion. It gives you what you need to mark each player's armies. It gives you the second board. You should be able to make do with the figures in a base game for the Epic boards. A single board is just too small, I think, to have fun with more than 2 players.
      
Caboose
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Re:Battlelore fun with more than 2 players? Thu, 13 December 2007 18:11
I'd have to concur with Colt in regards to if you are planning to do BL with more than 2 players, then you should obtain the Epic expansion, since it has the markers, an extra board + extra lore tokens as well.

Playing on 1 board just gets real cramped and can get messy if there is an abundance of units on 1 section of the board.

And for the cost, you definitely get all the necessary items. And the Reluctant Allies rules is definitely the way to go for playing 4 players. Hopefully DoW will release a few more RA scenarios as well! (You get 2 RA scenarios in the expansion)

Cab
      
toddrew
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Re:Battlelore fun with more than 2 players? Thu, 13 December 2007 19:12
Just my opinions of course, but RA is a lot of fun and the commander/section commander not so much. RA feels like a true multi-player game, and the other like trying to squeeze extra players into a 2-player game. Disclaimer: only played half of a Commander/Section Commander game, and a handful of RA games.

As to using RA on a single board, I think this could work very nicely. The epic expansion does come with markers and such that would aid the gameplay, but I'm sure adequate substitutes could be easily found. One would probably want to scale down the number of units for the smaller board, but having a glut of units could work too - just might need to improvise to come up with the number of figures required, or use poker chips, etc. to indicate unit strength.

If you are used to games with the flexibility of 2 through 8 or even more players, this is not the case with BL. Plays best as a 2-player game, RA is a very fun 4-player game (though, can work as a 3-player as dbc- pointed out), but other combinations can work, just not for me.
      
dickens1853
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Re:Battlelore fun with more than 2 players? Thu, 13 December 2007 19:14
Thanks for the insight. Doesn't Epic also come with more battle figures? Seems like you'd need more of those also for 4 players.
      
dbc-
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Re:Battlelore fun with more than 2 players? Thu, 13 December 2007 19:42
There are no units available in the Epic Expansion.
My advice, if you buy the game, would be to buy the base set and download the rules for Epic. Play with the RA system for awhile, and then upgrade.
When you feel like playing in Epic-mode, check out previous entries on this forum regarding Epic/2nd base set. If you really like the game you might want to invest in a 2nd base set instead of the Epic Expansion, or you might feel totally comfortable with one set and Epic.
      
ColtsFan77
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Re:Battlelore fun with more than 2 players? Thu, 13 December 2007 21:45
dickens1853 wrote on Thu, 13 December 2007 12:14

Thanks for the insight. Doesn't Epic also come with more battle figures? Seems like you'd need more of those also for 4 players.

No, epic is just the rules set, the additional board, and new markers.

If you want more figures, you need to look into a 2nd game - or use the Specialist expansions. DOW said they would try to design the Epic games so that you only needed one base set. But they have already tried that and a couple of the scenarios do require more than what one base sets provides.
      
Gojira
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Re:Battlelore fun with more than 2 players? Thu, 13 December 2007 23:48
We get together generally twice a week and play all of the commands and colors games almost exclusively multiplayer, anywhere from 4-6 players. The basic game of battlelore works just fine this way. One person sits in center and has flank commanders on either side. The center commander gets final say over which card is played but the flanks are free to lobby and kibitz at will. We play on a board with 5" hexes though (which is really cool playing double wide scenarios) and use 25 mm figures so it's not quite so crowded. There's no reason you can't play the game with any number from 2 to 6. In fact we usually have at least one person at the end of the table handing out cards and shuffling when required. Very Happy Granted you have to share the victory but the social atmosphere really enhances the game anyway.
      
dickens1853
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Re:Battlelore fun with more than 2 players? Fri, 14 December 2007 00:50
Should you play the base game with no expansions, but used 2 teams of 2, is this the type of game where each team would have to discuss strategy by whispering, or would it not affect the game play if one team heard the other team discussing their next move?
      
Gojira
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Re:Battlelore fun with more than 2 players? Fri, 14 December 2007 05:15
You could play it in whatever style suits you group or your mood. We usually just point at cards and say "that's your next card, right?" but we've been playing the system together for many years so we generally know what the other guy is suggesting. We still have heated discussions about what to do with a specific card now and then and that's part of the fun. So is smugly turning to your teammate and saying "Well, we know they've got a order lights now" (only to find out it was a darken the sky). Embarassed You definitely wouldn't want to give the other side too much info such as saying "ok, we can move over here because I've got plenty of cards to follow up with" but we certainly don't play a whispering game. If you haven't played the game and can't sit in on a session any where, I'd just get the base version and see how you like it. Again, we had seven people show up tonight with one board and a good time was had by all. I was a little late so started the first game on card and beer duty but still enjoyed every minute. With six people playing, there are sometimes slow moments or even slow games if you're in a flank that doesn't have the right cards but you still get to make suggestions and socialize. With two people on each side, there would be plenty to do and plenty of variations in how you could play, even with the basic version. Your mileage may vary but multiplayer is how most of the playtesting was done and it still works for us.
      
*player141413
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Re:Battlelore fun with more than 2 players? Mon, 17 December 2007 15:28
I think it boils down to what type of game player you and your friends are. In the standard 2 player and Reluctant Allies 4-player variant, each player has direct control over his own units, and has an equal number of turns. This is good for players who like to be actively involved all the time, work their own strategy, and not be left to "cheer on" their teammates. In the Lord Commander variant, some players may not make decisions, move units, or roll dice for several of their team's turns. This is okay if the people involved get enjoyment out of seeing the battle unfold, the tension of other's dice rolls, and in general are having fun just being there.

Personally, the Lord Commander variant would be okay once in a great while, but I prefer to have my own War Council, my own units, and be on equal footing turn-wise with the other players. Even in Reluctant Allies, while you have a "teammate", you're still trying to get more unit kills than your teammate, so as to be declared the ultimate victor if/when your team wins. So, you're still somewhat playing for yourself, which is ultimately how these C&C games work best.
      
dickens1853
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Re:Battlelore fun with more than 2 players? Mon, 17 December 2007 16:15
So is the Lord Commander variant the 6-player version? Or is that 4 also?
      
ColtsFan77
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Re:Battlelore fun with more than 2 players? Mon, 17 December 2007 20:59
dickens1853 wrote on Mon, 17 December 2007 09:15

So is the Lord Commander variant the 6-player version? Or is that 4 also?

The "Lord Commander" variant is the standard Epic game and could be played with either 4 or 6 (or really, any number from 2-6). Though it is mostly designed for 6.

"Reluctant Allies" is the 4-player game where everyone is independent and controls their own War Council, Cards, Lore, Units, etc. I am sure this could work with 2 and 3 players as well.

Both options are outlined in the Epic expansion.
      
dickens1853
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Re:Battlelore fun with more than 2 players? Mon, 17 December 2007 21:39
Thanks to all. This discussion has been incredibly enlightening to me.

Dickens
      
tpx63
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Re:Battlelore fun with more than 2 players? Mon, 17 December 2007 22:01
We use to play 3Vs3, with team changing every scenario, after 2 plays (both sides).
Every player plays with other teammates only once, this way, and we give 1 pt for victory. A sort of Battlelore championship!
We started with base scenario 4; now we are going through last scenario, (booklet) ready to begin with EPIC version.

This way the game is really amazing, we use it to improve "team building" Very Happy


ps: sorry for my bad english

[Updated on: Mon, 17 December 2007 22:02]

      
    
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