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Clexton27
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Do Hedgehogs keep Landing Craft from coming ashore Fri, 25 January 2008 12:16
The hedgehogs were placed by the Germans in the low tide zone to impede Landing Craft from coming ashore. Do they have this effect in Memoir 44? How do you play it?
      
*player398320
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Re:Do Hedgehogs keep Landing Craft from coming ashore Fri, 25 January 2008 13:47
Well, I read both cards. Neither one says nothing about impeding landing craft (LC) nor are they said to be armor. My guess for in game play would be that hedgehogs do not effect LCs. HOWEVER, in real life I would figure they would tear the heck out of the landing crafts and keep them from coming a shore if they were concentrated closely. I would really like to see the answer on this from the veteran forum members.
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ColtsFan77
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  Re:Do Hedgehogs keep Landing Craft from coming ashore Fri, 25 January 2008 14:17
Good question.

You can take the route that only infantry can move through hedgehogs soanything that is not an infantry unit cannot enter a hex with a hedgehog. Or, you can take the position that hedgehogs are impassable to only armor and artillery so anything that is not arm or art can pass. I would tend to say that since it is not mentioned, the "only infanty can pass" rule would be in effect and in general, LCs cannot enter hexes with Hedgehogs.

But, here is a different twist: The rulebook states that LCs "are not a 'unit' per se...Instead, they act as a vehicle that improves and supplements the capabilities of the units they carry."

The way I read this then, is that an LC carrying Infantry is still and Infantry unit. An LC carrying Armor is still an armor unit. etc. Therefore, the LC is really not a unit, as mentioned, but more of a marker in the same vein as a Special unit badge.

If that is the case, then LCs carrying Infanfty can move onto hedgehogs. But LCs carrying Armor or Artillery cannot.

This then brings up an interesting point: How do I order an LC? I had originally assumed that you could only order them with Section cards or Tactic cards that give generic orders (like Direct from HQ). But if they are not a unit but only suppliment the unit underneath, then unit-specific cards should order unit-specific LCs. So an Infantry Assault should be able to order Infantry LCs.
      
Roobarb
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Re:Do Hedgehogs keep Landing Craft from coming ashore Fri, 25 January 2008 17:58
historicly speaking the d-day landings took place on a low tide for this very reason
      
RBorg
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Re:Do Hedgehogs keep Landing Craft from coming ashore Sat, 26 January 2008 00:15
Hedgehogs - Memoir '44 , page 16
Hedgehogs were obstacles against tanks and landing craft.
Movement: Only infantry units may enter a Hedgehog hex.

The intent was that landing craft could not enter a hex with a Hedgehog.

Richard Borg
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Do Hedgehogs keep Landing Craft from coming ashore Sat, 26 January 2008 00:50
Thanks for the clarification Richard! Any thoughts about moving landing craft with a "Infantry Assault" card? Rolling Eyes What ColtsFan said makes sense but it would be great to hear what the intention was from the creator! Very Happy
      
Clexton27
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Re:Do Hedgehogs keep Landing Craft from coming ashore Sat, 26 January 2008 23:20
Dear R Borg,
Thanks for the personal reply. I very much enjoy this game and appreciate your continuing personal interest in those of us who revel in playing it.
      
RBorg
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Re:Do Hedgehogs keep Landing Craft from coming ashore Sun, 27 January 2008 05:25
stevens wrote on Sat, 26 January 2008 17:20

Dear R Borg,
Thanks for the personal reply. I very much enjoy this game and appreciate your continuing personal interest in those of us who revel in playing it.


I still play too... a lot!

Richard Borg


      
Caboose
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Re:Do Hedgehogs keep Landing Craft from coming ashore Sun, 27 January 2008 07:42
Probably both the Landing Craft summary card (http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/content/cards_compen dium/?id=troop_15)

as well as the Hedgehog summary card
(http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/content/cards_compen dium/?id=terrain_5)

probably should be updated to include this info! That way when one looks at the M44 compendium, they would know about this.

And since probably will happen quite a bit, is there plans for someone to make sure the M44 summary card compendiums will be updated to include info/threads like this ?? Sure would hate the effort done on them to miss information like this.

Cab

[Updated on: Sun, 27 January 2008 07:43]

      
Clexton27
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Re:Do Hedgehogs keep Landing Craft from coming ashore Mon, 28 January 2008 01:42
Dear Caboose,
I referenced the rules of P.16 Memoir 44 via R Borg on the summary card comments for both the Hedgehogs and Landing Craft Cards. Hope this is helpful.
      
Caboose
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Re:Do Hedgehogs keep Landing Craft from coming ashore Mon, 28 January 2008 07:28
stevens wrote on Sun, 27 January 2008 17:42

Dear Caboose,
I referenced the rules of P.16 Memoir 44 via R Borg on the summary card comments for both the Hedgehogs and Landing Craft Cards. Hope this is helpful.


Steven although I could have done what you did, I was hoping that things like this would automatically get reflected there. Obviously not 'instanteously' (which would be great) but in a timely manner.

I don't think it has or will be and that is my point - that it should. If DoW doesn't have the time or manpower to do it, perhaps a few people could do it, since the compendium is there and sure would hate for it to go to waste.

Plus also maybe alert DoW about new questions that have arisen as well.

Cab
      
50th
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Re:Do Hedgehogs keep Landing Craft from coming ashore Wed, 30 January 2008 21:52
Roobarb wrote on Fri, 25 January 2008 10:58

historicly speaking the d-day landings took place on a low tide for this very reason


exactly what I was going to say, Roobarb! If it would have not been low tide, it would have ripped out the bottom of the boats. Plus I remember reading somewhere that some of them had explosives on the top to blow boats up when the struck them. Ouch! Shocked
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Do Hedgehogs keep Landing Craft from coming ashore Wed, 30 January 2008 22:11
50th wrote on Wed, 30 January 2008 12:52

Roobarb wrote on Fri, 25 January 2008 10:58

historicly speaking the d-day landings took place on a low tide for this very reason


exactly what I was going to say, Roobarb! If it would have not been low tide, it would have ripped out the bottom of the boats. Plus I remember reading somewhere that some of them had explosives on the top to blow boats up when the struck them. Ouch! Shocked


I obviously have way too much time on my hands today since I'm answering these posts so quickly! Embarassed Razz Oh well.

I have a book that I got at a museum in Normandy when I visited in the summer of 2003 (sadly before I was very interested in WWII history) It talks all about the D-Day landings and German defensive measures.

The Germans were ready in some areas with several layers of obstacles even before the beach started! They had stakes with mines attached (like 50th said), hedgehogs, steel cages in some places, and all sorts of other nasties waiting for landing craft. I can't remember a lot of them but I'll get a picture of some of the stuff and post it when I get home. It's amazing the Allies ever took the beaches!
      
Roobarb
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Re:Do Hedgehogs keep Landing Craft from coming ashore Thu, 31 January 2008 02:55
before the d-day landing they sent in frogmen at night to see what kind of defences the germans had
thats why they went in at a low tide meaning the troops had further to go
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Do Hedgehogs keep Landing Craft from coming ashore Thu, 31 January 2008 04:57
The book is called "The D-Day Landing Beaches: The Guide" a Heimdal Publication.

Here is the layout of the obstacles that could potentially have faced the Allies as they came to shore at any given place. Some of these were less common and were only found in some areas but it's a very intimidating lineup of defenses.
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff72/rasmussen81/IMG_2980_2.jpg

This is the Element "Cointet" or the Belgian door:
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff72/rasmussen81/IMG_2981_2.jpg

More pictures to come.

[Updated on: Thu, 31 January 2008 06:05]

      
rasmussen81
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Re:Do Hedgehogs keep Landing Craft from coming ashore Thu, 31 January 2008 04:58
These are Tetrahedrons, designed to rip out the bottom of tanks as they tried to drive over (with steel teeth), or blow the tanks up (with mines strapped on them):
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff72/rasmussen81/IMG_2982.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff72/rasmussen81/IMG_2984.jpg

Enjoy! Very Happy

[Updated on: Thu, 31 January 2008 06:06]

      
ColtsFan77
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Re:Do Hedgehogs keep Landing Craft from coming ashore Thu, 31 January 2008 05:54
can't see the photos
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Do Hedgehogs keep Landing Craft from coming ashore Thu, 31 January 2008 06:07
ColtsFan76 wrote on Wed, 30 January 2008 20:54

can't see the photos


Sorry about that!! Embarassed It must have looked interesting (and frustrating) with my captions but no pictures. Rolling Eyes Can you see the four pictures now?
      
Roobarb
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Re:Do Hedgehogs keep Landing Craft from coming ashore Thu, 31 January 2008 15:50
Surprised looks like the old fox didnt whant our lads comeing yo tea Twisted Evil
thanks for the picks rasmussen81

[Updated on: Thu, 31 January 2008 15:52]

      
    
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