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FearlessFred2
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Assaulting the Tourelles - Adventure 10 Mon, 08 October 2007 19:26
I have some questions about this scenario.

Is the stronghold that starts on the board just like what you would get with a level 3 commander?

Could another one be taken if you did have a level 3 commander?

FearlessFred
      
Roobarb
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Re:Assaulting the Tourelles - Adventure 10 Mon, 08 October 2007 19:32
i think yes but only this advetuer but you should give your oppolent first refuseal
      
tpx63
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Re:Assaulting the Tourelles - Adventure 10 Sun, 20 January 2008 18:13
I have the same doubt (and I'm starting to play in 15' minutes...)!

Could anyone kindly explain?

Thanks.
      
toddrew
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Re:Assaulting the Tourelles - Adventure 10 Sun, 20 January 2008 19:04
tpx63 wrote on Sun, 20 January 2008 10:13

I have the same doubt (and I'm starting to play in 15' minutes...)!

Could anyone kindly explain?

Thanks.


A little late for your start time, and not 100% on this (I'd rate it a 99% Wink ), but for scenario 10 p2 (standards) recieves the placed stronghold regardless of the level of commander. It is an objective for p1 (pennants), and as far as morale support goes works as any stronghold. Whether or not a command card is taken from p2 if p1 holds it is a question I don't remember the answer to, but I think it would not occur. If p2 does take a level 3 commander, then p2 would also recieve another stronghold which would be placed upon any countryside hex occupied by a friendly unit - regardless of row.

      
tpx63
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Re:Assaulting the Tourelles - Adventure 10 Sun, 20 January 2008 20:01
Thank you. In this very moment we are 5/3 for the Bastard.
Just a little break, eating a Pizza before the battle!!!
      
Caboose
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Re:Assaulting the Tourelles - Adventure 10 Sun, 20 January 2008 21:04
toddrew wrote on Sun, 20 January 2008 11:04

tpx63 wrote on Sun, 20 January 2008 10:13

I have the same doubt (and I'm starting to play in 15' minutes...)!

Could anyone kindly explain?

Thanks.


A little late for your start time, and not 100% on this (I'd rate it a 99% Wink ), but for scenario 10 p2 (standards) recieves the placed stronghold regardless of the level of commander. It is an objective for p1 (pennants), and as far as morale support goes works as any stronghold. Whether or not a command card is taken from p2 if p1 holds it is a question I don't remember the answer to, but I think it would not occur. If p2 does take a level 3 commander, then p2 would also recieve another stronghold which would be placed upon any countryside hex occupied by a friendly unit - regardless of row.




That would be pretty harsh if one player had 2 Commander strongholds and somehow then lost them both and had to lose 1 CC for each if both were normal Commander Strongholds. Obviously the one obtained from level 3 Commander would act as normal. The one that is on the board I do not believe gets the Commander abilities, other than the normal landmark items associated with a landmark.

Interesting observation on what to do if both were to get one - I would think that since there is only 1 available, I think the rule of "no one would get it" would apply.

Kinda find it humorous we are still finding things like this even 1.5+ years later. Makes BL so fun to play at times and other times "frustrating" when having to look through the rulebook when you remember something and can't find it!

Cab
      
DarkPadawan2
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Re:Assaulting the Tourelles - Adventure 10 Sun, 20 January 2008 22:29
Caboose schrieb am Sun, 20 January 2008 21:04


Interesting observation on what to do if both were to get one - I would think that since there is only 1 available, I think the rule of "no one would get it" would apply.

Cab


That one is easy to solve. On p. 68 of the core rule book, second column, right under the picture of the stronghold it is stated, that both Commanders get a stronghold if they are level 3.

If you refer to the fact, that only two stronghold tiles are available in a base set, I would just replace the terrain objective already on the board with any other available building tile (training camp, etc.) to provide both level 3 commanders with strongholds if required.

Dark.
      
tpx63
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Re:Assaulting the Tourelles - Adventure 10 Sun, 20 January 2008 22:40
The Bastard d'Orleans won, an easy victory indeed!
However I'm not so sure about the second Stronghold (in case of Command L3), since the box contains only 2 hexes, so I presume one for P1, one for P2.
To avoid problems we played Command L2, both.

Wink We are playing in Italy. Sorry for my poor english.

[Updated on: Sun, 20 January 2008 22:42]

      
Samuraibel
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Re:Assaulting the Tourelles - Adventure 10 Sun, 20 January 2008 22:50
As far as I remember there was a clarification from Henning(DoW) in the German forum, stating

a) stronghold in scenario 10 initial setup is just a victory point
b) if the player chooses a L3 commander that stronghold gains all stronghold capabilities as described in the rule book
c) 2nd stronghold remains for 2nd player in case he chooses a L3 commander also

Ciao
      
tpx63
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Re:Assaulting the Tourelles - Adventure 10 Sun, 20 January 2008 22:57
Samuraibel wrote on Sun, 20 January 2008 22:50

As far as I remember there was a clarification from Henning(DoW) in the German forum, stating

a) stronghold in scenario 10 initial setup is just a victory point
b) if the player chooses a L3 commander that stronghold gains all stronghold capabilities as described in the rule book
c) 2nd stronghold remains for 2nd player in case he chooses a L3 commander also

Ciao



Ok, this is really reasonable.

I've another question.
Due to Stronghold+Rampart, supported units become Bold2 or Bold3?

Unit in ramparts = Bold, adjacent Stronghold = Bold2, supported Bold3?
      
ColtsFan77
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Re:Assaulting the Tourelles - Adventure 10 Sun, 20 January 2008 23:36
We have these issues because we gloss over the rules.

First off, a Stronghold is placed on the map by EITHER 1)its presence in the Scenario notes OR 2) the inclusion of a Level 3 Commander WHEN Landmark rules are in effect. (p.68 first column, last paragraph).

Second, each player may get a Stronghold as this is not like the other Landmarks when both players have teh same Level 3 Lore Master. Dark already quoted the rule on this one. In this particular scenario. Player 2 already gets a Stronghold regardless (by virtue of part 1 above) and Player 1 MAY get one (by virtue of part 2 above).

Player 2 would NOT get a second Stronghold as only one is granted per side. This is not explicit in the rules. However, you only get a Stronghold when you meet one of the conditions above. If you meet both conditions, you still only get one Stronghold. The rules state nothing about each condition getting you a Stronghold so the placement of the Stronghold by the scenario notes trumps the typical placement granted by the Landmark Rules.

Since the Stronghold dictated in the notes is a fully functioning Stronghold, it would hold the same benefits and dangers as a "normal" Stronghold: BOld to all adjacent units, loss of a card if captured, etc. Nothing in the rules indicates this would be void.

With all due respect to Henning, he is not a DOW employee but a community volunteer moderating the German forums. So if his answers are indeed true, they still need to be confirmed by Eric or Richard. I disagree with his answers A and B based on my understanding of the rules. (And I agree with C as far as I understand what was typed - meaning the 2nd player would get his first Stronghold; not that he is advocating Player 2 would get a 2nd Stronghold.) However, DOW has frequently ruled opposite of the rulebook and Henning has had the inside track on that before. So not doubting him, I just want to hear DOW say the rulebook is wrong (again).
      
tpx63
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Re:Assaulting the Tourelles - Adventure 10 Mon, 21 January 2008 09:39
ColtsFan76 wrote on Sun, 20 January 2008 23:36

We have these issues because we gloss over the rules...


Since the Stronghold dictated in the notes is a fully functioning Stronghold,...


So in this case we have Bold2 and Bold3? (e.g. the unit in the Stronghold is Bold, plus is supported = B2 and the unit on the ramparts are Bold, supported and adjacent to Stronghold...= Bold3)
      
toddrew
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Re:Assaulting the Tourelles - Adventure 10 Mon, 21 January 2008 14:12
tpx63 wrote on Mon, 21 January 2008 01:39



So in this case we have Bold2 and Bold3? (e.g. the unit in the Stronghold is Bold, plus is supported = B2 and the unit on the ramparts are Bold, supported and adjacent to Stronghold...= Bold3)


Yup - and if it's an Iron Dwarf foot unit and on the rampart adjacent to the stronghold and supported by two friendly units during a turn when the controlling player has played Mass Shield, that unit would be bold5. (Did I cover all the bases? Very Happy )
      
*player141413
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Re:Assaulting the Tourelles - Adventure 10 Wed, 30 January 2008 21:38
Bold5? "He's dug in like an Alabama tick." (See if you can guess the movie reference)
      
*player401291
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Re:Assaulting the Tourelles - Adventure 10 Wed, 30 January 2008 22:06
mvettemagred wrote on Wed, 30 January 2008 14:38

Bold5? "He's dug in like an Alabama tick." (See if you can guess the movie reference)



Jesse Ventura, Predator
      
Caboose
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Re:Assaulting the Tourelles - Adventure 10 Thu, 31 January 2008 00:17
DarkPadawan wrote on Sun, 20 January 2008 14:29

Caboose schrieb am Sun, 20 January 2008 21:04


Interesting observation on what to do if both were to get one - I would think that since there is only 1 available, I think the rule of "no one would get it" would apply.

Cab


That one is easy to solve. On p. 68 of the core rule book, second column, right under the picture of the stronghold it is stated, that both Commanders get a stronghold if they are level 3.

If you refer to the fact, that only two stronghold tiles are available in a base set, I would just replace the terrain objective already on the board with any other available building tile (training camp, etc.) to provide both level 3 commanders with strongholds if required.

Dark.



Dark, even though there are 2, there really is only ONE available for both to use since this scenario USES one of the 2 strongholds.

And even though the rulebook states that, I bet it was for the fact that there are TWO of them for use. But doesn't address the possibility of a scenario using one of them for setup.

And like Colt stated above, it would be nice to have certain situations addressed that might not have been thought of - i.e scenario uses one of the landmarks (more so OTHER than a Stronghold, which there is only one of each). More so when the OTHER player should have gotten it but the scenario places in on the other side.

Cab

Cab

[Updated on: Thu, 31 January 2008 00:21]

      
*player141413
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Re:Assaulting the Tourelles - Adventure 10 Thu, 31 January 2008 16:37
tibbs2 wrote on Wed, 30 January 2008 16:06

mvettemagred wrote on Wed, 30 January 2008 14:38

Bold5? "He's dug in like an Alabama tick." (See if you can guess the movie reference)



Jesse Ventura, Predator

Excellent! Well done.

One of the most quotable movies ever. From that same scene: "I ain't got time to bleed." And of course, from later in the movie: "If it bleeds, we can kill it." Good stuff.
      
    
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