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yangtze
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Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Wed, 12 September 2007 18:23
There is a set of fun campaign rules for the Wars of the Roses scenarios I've been posting up, now fully updated to include relevant material from all expansions up to and including Scottish Wars.

The campaign rules are posted here on my Battlelore fansite (you'll need to join the Yahoo group to get them, but it's a quick and easy process):

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/battlelorecalltoarms/

[Updated on: Sun, 03 February 2008 10:20]

      
*player299757
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Thu, 13 September 2007 06:30
Yangtze I like your Idea. Were are you getting the Chanceller Cards from ? I think that my old Kingmaker game has them all. Have to dig it out of the attic and check. It would be cool if Days of Wonder did something like a simple version of Kingmaker with Map and Cards for a Campaign Game. Also the Cry Havoc siege sup. would work for a Siege sup. I like your ideas.
      
yangtze
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Thu, 13 September 2007 08:27
The offices do all appear in Kingmaker - thankfully you can't copyright history! Though I changed 'Bishop of Durham' to 'Prince-Bishop of the Palinate of Durham' after some research. Palinates were like a state within a state. The people who ran them were powerful.

[Updated on: Thu, 13 September 2007 08:45]

      
Caboose
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Sun, 03 February 2008 07:37
What do you mean by "Arbalestiers (version 1)" ? Namely the version 1 aspect. Is there more than one version of the specialist card (other than I know there are 2 different specialist cards).

If you mean the latter, perhaps might want to indicate which one of those 2 specialist cards you are referring to!

In regards to the above offices/scenarios which get additional units at the start, I presume you are referring to human units - unless stated otherwise, correct?

In regards to your "after each battle" section, first you have TWO #3 items and thus the 2nd #3 should be #4.

Second for the #3 for "after each battle" section, you have the following statement : "In both cases above, if the pool is exhausted the winner may take any office from their opponent, including the Office's associated Specialist card if it has not yet been played." It seems the specialist card is a one time thing through the campaign?! Please elaborate on that aspect of the specialist cards tie to the offices and perhaps needs to be indicated as such maybe in the office section.

Lastly, you might want to perhaps includes the order of play of each scenario in the rules, just to make sure the battles are done in correct order! Smile

Cab

[Updated on: Sun, 03 February 2008 07:44]

      
yangtze
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Sun, 03 February 2008 09:20
What do you mean by "Arbalestiers (version 1)" ?

There are two different Arbalestier cards. I have now clarified this in the rules.

In regards to the above offices/scenarios which get additional units at the start, I presume you are referring to human units - unless stated otherwise, correct?

Correct. Currently, this campaign is historical and does not use Dwarven or Goblin troops or specialisms.

In regards to your "after each battle" section, first you have TWO #3 items and thus the 2nd #3 should be #4.

Oops! Sorted.

Second for the #3 for "after each battle" section, you have the following statement : "In both cases above, if the pool is exhausted the winner may take any office from their opponent, including the Office's associated Specialist card if it has not yet been played." It seems the specialist card is a one time thing through the campaign?! Please elaborate on that aspect of the specialist cards tie to the offices and perhaps needs to be indicated as such maybe in the office section.

Done.

Lastly, you might want to perhaps includes the order of play of each scenario in the rules, just to make sure the battles are done in correct order!

Each battle is dated, but I have added a section listing each battle in date order for greater clarity.

Thanks for the feedback Cab! The updated rules should appear in about an hour. Let me know how your campaign play goes.

[Updated on: Sun, 03 February 2008 10:24]

      
Caboose
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Sun, 03 February 2008 10:13
You might want to use another color to reply back with since it is pretty darn close to the background color and very hard to read (at least for me! Preferable a color more darker than lighter...

Cab
      
yangtze
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Sun, 03 February 2008 10:22
lol

Adjust your contrast Wink

It's a pain, but using Safari on my mac I can't see the colours when I'm choosing one. I'll see if I can edit it...
      
yangtze
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Sun, 03 February 2008 10:24
There, try sienna Smile
      
Caboose
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Sun, 03 February 2008 10:44
Hard to adjust contrast when you are replying back in a lite blue and the background is lite pink!

And I still don't see in the rules about the question I asked above about the specialist cards. Are the office's specialist cards a ONE shot deal (can only be used in one of the other following scenarios after getting the particular office title as well as it's specialist card) ?

Also, in regards to the scenarios that have special items for certain offices AND if that office does have a specialist card to it, can that office still use the specialist card for it as well get the special unit too ?

Example :
The Battle of Blore Heath - The player in control of the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster may deploy one medium infantry unit as a Reserve as per Call to Arms rules. Can the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster also use it's Axemen specialist card for this scenario as well ?

Cab

[Updated on: Sun, 03 February 2008 10:45]

      
yangtze
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Sun, 03 February 2008 10:50
I still don't see in the rules about the question I asked above about the specialist cards. Are the office's specialist cards a ONE shot deal (can only be used in one of the other following scenarios after getting the particular office title as well as it's specialist card) ?

Yes, that's now in the rules under 'Before Each Battle'.

Also, in regards to the scenarios that have special items for certain offices AND if that office does have a specialist card to it, can that office still use the specialist card for it as well get the special unit too ?

Yes.
      
Caboose
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Sun, 03 February 2008 11:12
Just saw this few here while going to the rules/specialist cards for the respective offices.

1)For the Count Palatine of Wales, doc says Archers - as per the card.

But there is no "Archers" specialist card, but there is an Archers STAKES specialist card. Is that what you meant for that office or something else entirely (which I suspect is the case since another office does have the Archer Stakes card)

2) For the Admiral of England - Arbalestiers (version 2: replace 1 or 2 green banner units) - as per card.

The Green version of that card says to replace up to 3 green. Thus is it the card or only up to 2 as above ?

3) For Warden of the Cinque Ports - King's Allies - as per card. Since I suspect most of the scenarios are medieval and thus no WC, this would be played then at level 1, correct? If so, then the card is useless at Level 1 since the added items don't come in till level 2. Please look at and correct as necessary.

4) For Treasurer of England office - typo on specialist card. EnrolLment Smile

5) For Constable of Dover Castle office. Due to NEW type of unit of artillery, I don't see any specs on the Artillery unit. Thus might be nice to list. Smile

Cab
      
yangtze
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Sun, 03 February 2008 17:45
All points addressed and updated version posted (see link in first post) - thanks again!

Also added Scottish Mercenaries and Commission of Array specialist cards.

Scottish Mercenaries is essentially Dwarven mercenaries played at level 2 with human figures. This is a nod to Queen Margaret's courting of the Scots following Towton.

Commission of Array is Illusionary Troops played at level 2.

[Updated on: Sun, 03 February 2008 17:45]

      
Caboose
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Sun, 03 February 2008 17:51
One last item, do you plan to maybe make the various title cards (with the card indicating the respective specialist card) ?


Just a thought
Cab

[Updated on: Sun, 03 February 2008 18:08]

      
yangtze
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Sun, 03 February 2008 18:03
I have little artistic talent, but I'll make something functional if nobody else does a better job in the meantime Smile
      
Caboose
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Sun, 03 February 2008 18:09
No problem.

Did find this issue - at least with Battle of Blores Heath...

Also as reported in the PDF Output bug thread, I've noticed in regards to your briefing notes, they are very long and thus get printed in very small print when printed out. A definite issue in regards to export. As such, is there any way to maybe put the briefing notes in your campaign rules..or maybe in a seperate document that just includes the briefing notes for each campaign ?
Otherwise, the other option is Print View - ugh! Sad
(Of course might be a way in regards to the briefing notes to have some of them shorten too - not sure if that is a viable)

Cab
      
yangtze
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Sun, 03 February 2008 18:24
Yes I'll certainly be looking at shortening the historical notes at least. The rules for artillery and leaders can be moved to the campaign rules now, but they only appear in full in one scenario each.

There's so much wasted space on the pdfs, and text isn't being resized properly - hope the DoW wizards sort these issues soon! I did report them a looong time ago... Smile
      
Caboose
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Sun, 03 February 2008 19:19
Agreed there is some definite wasted space - more so on the Portrait vs Landscape view. Makes you think that maybe they did the testing in Landscape (which makes sense). Hopefully some of the issues do get resolved since there are some definitely some nice aspects too!

And you would think that if there is no "set" War Council (like Battle of Blores Health) that export would "close" that section down. That is probably the one section that seems to be the biggest waste of space - more so when there is no set War Council.

Cab
      
Caboose
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Sun, 03 February 2008 20:39
Back to the Campaign, there is definitely items that probably should be moved into the campaign rules - like the Leadership rules and things of that like. And thus have one central place to look.

Also I had noticed there are TWO Battle of Blore Heath - scenario # 2376U and 1530U. Rules show 2376U being the proper one, but if one searches on Roses in scenario search, you get both. If 1530U is not suppose to be part of that, maybe it needs to be renamed.

Cab
      
yangtze
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Sun, 03 February 2008 22:22
1530U isn't mine - it's ok because the scenario numbers are listed in the campaign rules.
      
Caboose
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Mon, 04 February 2008 06:53
Oh okay - hopefully you might be able to contact the author and perhaps.

Also I noticed that 1530U spells the battle with an S in Blores whereas yours doesn't.

And of course the 2 scenarios are radically different - not even close to each other..not even on the river! Smile

Cab
      
affro
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Tue, 05 February 2008 14:34
While I was photoshopping things here and there, I came up with an idea to represent Artillery on the battlefield without having the right minis at the right time: using a printable tile.

What I produced is this thing, shamelessly using pics found around the web (I hope not being sued for this) even from the venerable Battlemaster (courtesy of BBG):

[img][url]http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/6992/cannontilefixednt6.j pg[/url][/img]

What do you think? Could be of any use?

The graphic layout is a little crammed, but I tried to make the tile as self-explanatory as possible.

Use 2 generic men-at-arms to represent servants of the machinery...

[Updated on: Tue, 05 February 2008 15:44]

      
Caboose
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Tue, 05 February 2008 15:18
affro wrote on Tue, 05 February 2008 06:34

While I was photoshopping things here and there, I came up with an idea to represent Artillery on the battlefield without having the right minis at the right time: using a printable tile.

What I produced is this thing, shamelessly using pics found around the web (I hope not being sued for this) even from the venerable Battlemaster (courtesy of BBG):

[url]http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/1850/cannontilefitvk5.jpg[/url]

What do you think? Could be of any use?

The graphic layout is a little crammed, but I tried to make the tile as self-explanatory as possible.

Use 2 generic men-at-arms to represent servants of the machinery...


One problem - you have 2 dice at the 3 hex range when it should be 1 dice (unless Don changed something in the Blores Heath campaign - which had the artillery rules).

Speaking of artillery, just to make sure they are played correctly, I see they hit on SoS and they get a reroll for those SoS and thus a hit I presume. So if on the reroll another SoS gets rolled, that would be 2 hits for that 1 die roll, correct?
Also I presume on the bonus SoS, if a Lore is rolled, it is ignored just like any other bonus rolls.
      
affro
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Tue, 05 February 2008 15:43
Right, while I was working on it I counted "2 Hexes" as "2 results"...

Yes' I'm a very distract person (-_- ; )...

Plus, my silly photoediting software crashed one time or two while I was working on it... Poor PC, "all work and no play..." - Pun Intended...

I'm going fix it (as usual (^_^ ; )...

Done!

Edit: Updated the Image Above. History does not remember...

[Updated on: Tue, 05 February 2008 15:53]

      
Caboose
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Tue, 05 February 2008 15:55
Looks correct now.

Only other thing is maybe have 2 of the same pic so they print out on the same page (since I don't recall a War of Rose scenario with just ONE artillery hex). Of course if one uses Paint and copies and pastes 3 other hexes, that will do that trick as well

Cab

[Updated on: Tue, 05 February 2008 16:15]

      
*player266032
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Thu, 07 February 2008 13:08
We wanted to start the campaign yesterday, but we could not find scenario 2410 (and 2409). Are they under repair or something?

Little side note: We now started the campaign at scenario 2374, but saw the "Medieval Lore rules" tekst when we were selecting the offices. Since we mostly play Epic, call to arms, war counsil games, we didn't know of the existands of this Hundred Year War rule. So now we would like to re-start with scenario 2410.

Norm
      
ZiNOS
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Fri, 08 February 2008 10:25
Dear Yangtze,

for some reason, i cannot send you a pm, so i will write it here.

Scenarios 2406, 2407 and 2408 have problem when you export them to pdf. The historical background is big and the text overlaps itself.

Can you reduce the Historical Background to make the printed versions readable?

Thnx.
      
Caboose
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Fri, 08 February 2008 19:41
As for the historical background, that is known issue with the Editor and the item has been noted in the PDF export thread. So far, no feedback yet from DoW.

For Medieval rules, you can consult the 100 Year or Scottish War expansions. In a nutshell, you have NO War Council, nor do you start with any lore. Every spell costs you 3 more to cast. There is a set deck of lore spells.

See this thread for makeup of deck :
http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?goto=102645#msg_num_6

Lastly Don still needs to finish 3 scenarios and the 2 listed (2409 and 2410) are of them.

Cab

[Updated on: Sat, 09 February 2008 15:46]

      
yangtze
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Sat, 09 February 2008 12:29
I'll try to catch up on some of the points made above:

"Also I noticed that 1530U spells the battle with an S in Blores whereas yours doesn't."

It should properly be "Blore Heath".

"And of course the 2 scenarios are radically different - not even close to each other..not even on the river!"

I've listed my sources now. The best source for wargamers is probably still the Haigh book, and that was my main source for terrain and dispositions.

"Affro tile"

That's an excellent tile Affro! I'm using some painted 15mm minis at the moment. I'll post some pics asap. I hope DoW eventually produce some medieval artillery.

"Also I presume on the bonus SoS, if a Lore is rolled, it is ignored just like any other bonus rolls."

Correct. Have now hopefully clarified this in the artillery rules.

"We wanted to start the campaign yesterday, but we could not find scenario 2410 (and 2409). Are they under repair or something?"

Both (three in fact) are now essentially complete and will be posted within a couple of days Smile

"Can you reduce the Historical Background to make the printed versions readable?"

Indeed I'll be doing a fair bit of tidying in the next couple of days.

I also finally got around to inputting my DoW code from my Pirates game, so in theory I can now be PMed Smile

[Updated on: Sat, 09 February 2008 12:30]

      
yangtze
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Mon, 25 February 2008 00:05
Affro, I have posted the artillery tile on the fansite with the other Wars of the Roses materials, with credit to you of course Smile
      
affro
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Re:Wars of the Roses Campaign Rules Mon, 25 February 2008 09:26
It's my pleasure... Really, I'm honoured (^_^)! Go for it!

[Updated on: Mon, 25 February 2008 09:27]

      
    
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