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affro
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The Battle of Castagnaro 11 March 1387 (Italy) Sun, 27 January 2008 13:01
Here:

http://www.daysofwonder.com/battlelore/en/battlelore_editor/ view/?id=3056&returnto=fans

"After a long retreat, John Hawkwood realized how foolish would have been for his army to cross the Adige.
Thrice damned Ordelaffi! He demonstrated himself well versed in the esoteric arts, spreading fear even in the fiercest hearts of Scotsdarves in the White Company: with flash, fire and chitinous monstrousities evocated from the deepest pit of Phlegeton, without doubt!
Worst of all, a contingent of treacherous Goblins recruited by Venetians grouped with the pursuer: bagpipers at the rear, onboard the carrarese Carroccio, side by side with the cavalry; a small ditch between his men and an overwhelming enemy; all odds were againts him... but he was "Acuto", the keen one, and there is always one last hope for a lucky man who could broke the fortune of devils... "




Behind the Scenes

My first attempt at a homemade scenario.

I roughly used as a guide a deployment obtained via CtA (as if 4 players were using Epic with the Reluctant Allies variant), then ostensibly modified to resemble (with an ample degree of approximation)) the state of the battle depicted in the game Condottieri, as seen on Boardgamegeek:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/8457

My first thought was to create a 4 Players Battle where everyone gets to use a "racial" army (no need for tokens, as such ^_^).
With a little bit of patriottism I decided to use a historical battle fought in Italy bent to Lore use.
The infamous John Hawkwood come soon to mind...

At a glance, I find stronger and weaker point in the disposition of troops; I could figure many diverse situation, and there are many specialists on board at the same time, so the battle could result (hopefully) in an experience richful of heroic and memorable moments or in a disjointed mess.
Guess I need to experimentally test it, something I'd hope to do next week; if someone feel brave and would like to do the same, or share same thought, in the meantime...

Below: a less than historical (but somewhat, "battlelorish") depiction of John Hawkwood...

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/3376/hawkwoodzh0.jpg

[Updated on: Tue, 29 January 2008 13:30]

      
yangtze
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Re:The Battle of Castagnaro 11 March 1387 (Italy) Mon, 28 January 2008 17:03
Looks suitably epic!

I must give this Epic thing a try. I've never really had the opportunity to do so in M44, BL, or even C&CA.
      
Tsugo
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Re:The Battle of Castagnaro 11 March 1387 (Italy) Mon, 28 January 2008 19:52
yangtze wrote on Mon, 28 January 2008 08:03

Looks suitably epic!


I'll second that.

I like that the controlled units are broken down by race. There are three people in my gaming group who I've introduced to BL. I hope I can talk them into trying this out.
      
geki2
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Re:The Battle of Castagnaro 11 March 1387 (Italy) Mon, 28 January 2008 21:16
Giovanni Acuto... evvai---
      
affro
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Re:The Battle of Castagnaro 11 March 1387 (Italy) Mon, 28 January 2008 22:53
Thanks everyone!

I cordially invited some friend to test the thing, now we'll see if they'll answer my friendly neighborhood Call to Arms...!

Let me knows how it works, if you try it!

Giovanni Acuto was almost a natural choice for the Scenario, perhaps the best suited for the Battlelore (usual) timeframe... other temptative candidates were the Battle of Fornovo - perhaps a Leonardesque and really uchronic one - and the Battle of Legnano - where the Company of Death were really an Undead Company... Perhaps I should wait for official ruling about Walking Corpses, but I could always invoke "That very different necromantic ritual"... who knows...

By the way, Hawkwood would deserve his own campaign ^_^ ...

[Updated on: Mon, 28 January 2008 22:54]

      
*player299757
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Re:The Battle of Castagnaro 11 March 1387 (Italy) Sun, 03 February 2008 05:11
Hi Affro, your Battle of Castagnaro,looks great thanks. I just read Osprey's Condottiere. Saunders John Hawkwood. Ken Fowlers Medieval Mercenaries, and a few other books on the Condottiere and liked your take on the battle, BUT I do not play the Epic exp. and was hoping that you will do the battle and other Italian battles in the Single board form. I've enjoyed YANGTZE's War of the Roses battles and looking forward to the Condottiere battles and more 100 Years Wars battles form the fans. THANKS
      
Caboose
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Re:The Battle of Castagnaro 11 March 1387 (Italy) Sun, 03 February 2008 07:50
I do have a few questions which easily came to mind after looking at the scenario :

1) Why do the standards the team that goes first when the pennants have more green units ? Curious why a change like that. And even on that particular side, the team with most green units (goblins) goes LAST of the 4 players.

2) In regards to the level 3 wizard/commanders on the WC, are they allowed their respective landmark tiles as well ?

Thanks
Cab

[Updated on: Sun, 03 February 2008 07:56]

      
affro
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Re:The Battle of Castagnaro 11 March 1387 (Italy) Sun, 03 February 2008 16:42
Quote:

1) Why do the standards the team that goes first when the pennants have more green units ? Curious why a change like that. And even on that particular side, the team with most green units (goblins) goes LAST of the 4 players.


You are right: that's me tinkering a little bit with the rules to make the Adventure more personal with subtle or not-so subtle modifications ^_^ !

My reasoning behind the change is along these lines:

- John Hawkwood is the centerpiece of the scenario, and a character thoroughly heroic, or infamous, or both (in my imaginary depiction, at least ^_^): the first turn want to simulate in an unobtrusive way his cleverness ("He saw through enemies plans"), despite the number of "scouts" disposable - in large part

- According to Rickard J. article about the battle on http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/battles_castagnaro.html,
one of the descriptions of the battle I found around the web:

Quote:

"The Veronese army found him in place on the morning of the 11th, but took till noon to form up, having expected Hawkwood to retreat further"



So, it seemed to me at least appropriate to give the vantage point to Hawkwood, while the somewhat unprepared Veroneses and Venetians reorganized...

- My last motivation was really a metagaming one and reflected the composition of the group with wich I planned to try the battle. As a rule of thumb, I found more complex to manage efficiently an all Goblin army, then an all Human army and then a Dwarf army: the asimmetrical and racial distribution of troops *could* be used to allocate differently experienced players.
True, Lore could reveal itself a challenge for everyone, regardless troops selection; and without a good sense of measure the natural impetus of Iron Dwarves, killing-machine skirmishers, could put them and a too brave general in dire straits (but I granted them a little stronger positions, here, with the protection of the "latitudinal" ditch to counter a little Goblin outstanding maneuvres' speed)... notheless, in general I found the point valid.

More or less I thought along these lines, and if one of my friends hadn't threw us a curve ball last thursday I could have playtested pros and cons weight on the field...
Oh well, it will be tested soon, in a way or another!

Quote:

2) In regards to the level 3 wizard/commanders on the WC, are they allowed their respective landmark tiles as well ?


The battle was the final act of a pursuit, so, perhaps, special landmark rules should'nt be active. I forgot to mention it in the notes, I'm doing it soon!

...

Done ^_^ !

Quote:

Hi Affro, your Battle of Castagnaro,looks great thanks. I just read Osprey's Condottiere. Saunders John Hawkwood. Ken Fowlers Medieval Mercenaries, and a few other books on the Condottiere and liked your take on the battle, BUT I do not play the Epic exp. and was hoping that you will do the battle and other Italian battles in the Single board form. I've enjoyed YANGTZE's War of the Roses battles and looking forward to the Condottiere battles and more 100 Years Wars battles form the fans. THANKS


Thanks to you! My first take on the battle was made also to put all these specialist I bought to good use, but I too was thinking about realizing a less "expansion heavy" version!
A "double format" is the way to go; I can't promise it, but probably, we'll see a "Castagnaro Lite" battle soon... I'll pray Cthulhu for that...
      
Caboose
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Re:The Battle of Castagnaro 11 March 1387 (Italy) Sun, 03 February 2008 17:33
In regards to the green army issue and order of play, even if Hawkwood took that long to form and attack, you could still keep the way green army goes first as well as impose on that side a possible 1st round restriction.

For both players on that side, you could force them to play their lowest # of units orders card possible. And thus still be "historically" correct that it took that side a while to get their units in order.

And if necessary, depending on exactly what time the 1st round is, might say this restriction affects other rounds. If so, of course say how many rounds that side of the scenario is so restricted.

Thus still keep the side who has the most green units still get #1 / #3 and still have the flavor you want too.

Just a thought

Cab
      
*player299757
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Re:The Battle of Castagnaro 11 March 1387 (Italy) Sun, 03 February 2008 20:00
THANKS AFFRO. I'll be looking and waiting for your CASTAGNARO and hopefully other lite Italian battles.
      
affro
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Re:The Battle of Castagnaro 11 March 1387 (Italy) Mon, 04 February 2008 11:02
Quote:

In regards to the green army issue and order of play, even if Hawkwood took that long to form and attack, you could still keep the way green army goes first as well as impose on that side a possible 1st round restriction.

For both players on that side, you could force them to play their lowest # of units orders card possible. And thus still be "historically" correct that it took that side a while to get their units in order.

And if necessary, depending on exactly what time the 1st round is, might say this restriction affects other rounds. If so, of course say how many rounds that side of the scenario is so restricted.

Thus still keep the side who has the most green units still get #1 / #3 and still have the flavor you want too.

Just a thought

Cab


Not a bad idea... Quite frankly, a VERY GOOD idea, and one I'd like to apply in a Scenario...

However, I don't know if I'd apply it in this Adventure; at first, changing the normal order of the turns seemed the less obtrusive way to implement "tactical foresight" by Hawkwood (and, really, an act of gallantry in favour of my guests: I thought I'd play last commanding the Goblins); also, I didn't want to complicate things too much with too many rules at the same time with players of different experience (the battlefield see almost an apex in variety of troops and four players at the same time, after all)... But now, I don't know what option could have the stronger impact on game... mmmmh... need to think about it...
      
*player141413
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Re:The Battle of Castagnaro 11 March 1387 (Italy) Mon, 04 February 2008 21:18
Oooooh, this looks nice. Maybe I can get four experienced BL players together at the next monthly meeting of my gaming group.

One question: There are four units of Hyena Riders in the scenario, but Goblin Mauraders only comes with two. Does this scenario require two sets of Goblin Mauraders?
      
Caboose
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Re:The Battle of Castagnaro 11 March 1387 (Italy) Mon, 04 February 2008 21:36
mvettemagred wrote on Mon, 04 February 2008 13:18

Oooooh, this looks nice. Maybe I can get four experienced BL players together at the next monthly meeting of my gaming group.

One question: There are four units of Hyena Riders in the scenario, but Goblin Mauraders only comes with two. Does this scenario require two sets of Goblin Mauraders?


It would seem so - didn't see that until now. Hopefully it will be corrected so one doesn't need 2 sets to play!

Cab
      
affro
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Re:The Battle of Castagnaro 11 March 1387 (Italy) Mon, 04 February 2008 22:51
Oooooppps! That's the kind of distraction that ruin the fame of a designer... I count and recount the troops to be sure, and then I overlook this HyenaFest!

Sorry, I'm going to rectify it...

Done!

Now it *should* be back to normal...

Thanks for the advice... It happened because I used first a setup obtained via CtA, with a lot of "virtual" Levy Tokens... When I modified it, I doubled units without noticing, dumb me...

Now: more Arbalestier and Swordsmen, less Hyena Riders!

Blasted sneaky little hyena riders...

[Updated on: Mon, 04 February 2008 23:05]

      
Caboose
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Re:The Battle of Castagnaro 11 March 1387 (Italy) Tue, 05 February 2008 01:52
Just to verify, the place where there WAS a goblin hyena rider but now is a blue Human infantry, it is suppose to be human and not goblin ?

Cab
      
affro
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Re:The Battle of Castagnaro 11 March 1387 (Italy) Tue, 05 February 2008 09:34
Yes!

Just to be sure, yesterday night I used a unit which has a fair number of unused conscripts...

Next time, i think I'll go with one of the many "points system" found in the web to create a rough set-up... No need to change too much "in fieri", this way...

I'm going simpler for my simple mind (^_^;;;;;;)

Good grief...
      
affro
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Re:The Battle of Castagnaro 11 March 1387 (Italy) Thu, 14 February 2008 15:38
Just a little update for whom is interested: a lite version of my original Castagnaro battle is online.

http://www.daysofwonder.com/battlelore/en/battlelore_editor/ view/?returnto=battlelore_editor&id=3188#3188

I haven't checked it thoroughly, yet, but everything seems fine. Only the base set is required to play it.

As usual, I chosed "Flavour" over "Balance": not truly a symmetrical battle, I think. I give the numerical advantage to Pennants (who could maneuvre to replace casualties, and even counting the Goblinoid fearful nature has an impressive array of cavalry units confronted with the opponent) but, aside the foothold assured for the Standards on good defensive positions, I also added some special ability to the Carroccio and Hawkwood, to spice up things a little bit and make sure that the yet brave dwarves become bravest and fight to the very last... Let me know if you like (or dislike) it!

Beside that, it's the miniature version (pun intended) of the previous one! Byez!

[Updated on: Thu, 14 February 2008 15:43]

      
*player299757
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Re:The Battle of Castagnaro 11 March 1387 (Italy) Fri, 15 February 2008 06:51
Thanks AFFRO
      
    
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