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Brycie35
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Air Pack Rules Fri, 22 April 2011 06:27
I have not played with the air pack rules as yet.

I have noticed in many scenarios they are optional (ie: both players must agree to play them)

My question is do player find that both players agree to use them more often, or not?

How do players find they change the game?
      
50th
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Re:Air Pack Rules Fri, 22 April 2011 07:32
I have never played with the official air pack rules, because I didn't like the fact that the airplanes only moved one more than a tank that moves about 25 mph. While the P-40 flies at around 360 mph. So I came up with my own air rules, which are available here:
http://cdn.daysofwonder.com/uploads/userpages/272628/_4353.p df

My rules allow units on the ground to fire back, Strafing, bombing, true Ground Interdiction, Air Interdiction, Kamikaze, and recon (which will be reworked soon). I have anti-air artillery rules in my air rules and the badges are in my gallery.

      
JJAZ
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Re:Air Pack Rules Fri, 22 April 2011 07:48
Air rules are great in most scenario's , especialy the interdiction ability can be the only way to buy you some time if you have lack of cards or troops in a sector and want to stall the enemy.
Strafing units at the opponents backline can weaken them before they get in action.
I always let my opponent choose if he want's to use them and on the ladder we play its also ruled that both players should agree.
      
djedi gamer
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Re:Air Pack Rules Fri, 22 April 2011 10:25
50th wrote on Fri, 22 April 2011 07:32

I have never played with the official air pack rules, because I didn't like the fact that the airplanes only moved one more than a tank that moves about 25 mph. While the P-40 flies at around 360 mph.


Planes of course can fly really faster than tanks (notice: tanks don't fly) but if they have to reach the point. When planes are in the struggle and attack ground target they circle up in the sky.

I have no Air Pack and I haven't ever play it. So I could be wrong. Your house rules seems to be interesting. And maybe some day I'll try it. But for now I'm collecting the opinions about AP.
      
Brycie35
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Re:Air Pack Rules Fri, 22 April 2011 11:28
I agree at first viewing the aircraft move 4 rules seems a little strange. However, maybe since aircraft have to move every turn or are removed from the board also has to be taken into account as they are moving faster.

Your aircraft house rules seem pretty good and may add realism. My question is are they more complex?

The Beauty about M44 is the rules are pretty easy to learn and play, and price of creating more 'realistic' rules is that they often bog the game into rules referring and calculation.

Some of my mate lose interest when game become complicated. Sad

I too am very interested to see what other players think of the AP rules?
      
50th
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Re:Air Pack Rules Fri, 22 April 2011 17:16
They are not as hard as remembering all those air checks, or having to look those up just because you fly over a minefield! The air units are only on the actual playing board when making an attack, or rescuing a heroic leader. Otherwise they are landed or "in play" which means activated and flying around.

      
Brycie35
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Re:Air Pack Rules Sat, 23 April 2011 00:08
You make a good point.
Air checks over minefields?
Thats sounds even stranger to me?

Have not played those rules yet, but I must say I am very hesitant about including the AP rules in my up coming campaign until I have seen them in action.

It seems to me not everybody likes them?
      
Erik Uitdebroeck
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Re:Air Pack Rules Sat, 23 April 2011 10:33
I always play air-rules if it is not forbidden.
      
Fred the Obscure
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Re:Air Pack Rules Sat, 23 April 2011 14:14
Greetings All,

My 2 cents worth:-

I like the air pack, and I think the planes look really great when on the board. I have had some really great dog-fights with two planes chasing each other around the board.

When it comes down to an air check over a mine feild I think we have to remember we are playing a game with a war theme, not a war game. Yes, it doesn't seem realistic that planes only move 4, and do odd air checks, yet it is how the rules have been presented, and I'm sure DOW considered many aspect and variations on a theme before releasing the official rules ( not to say that I don't like house rules)

To me air checks over a mine feild doesn't mean the mine feild is attacking the planes - it represents random anti aircraft fire from all over the place, and gives the plane some vunerability. Otherwise planes would be too strong and wouldn't be at nearly as much risk of being shot down.

We could start arguing that a unit with 4 figures should have more fire power than a unit with 1 figure, or how does 1 infantry figure take out an armoured unit at range 3 hexes?

As mentioned many times before - M44 is a simple, easy game, which satisfies both the "need to play a board game" fix, and the "war game" fix.

May Mad Ron, the god of random dice rolls, look favourably on you.

Fred the Obscure


      
sam1812
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Re:Air Pack Rules Sat, 23 April 2011 16:09
Admittedly, certain aspects of Air Rules are not realistic, but it had to (1) be retrofittable onto the existing rule set, (2) maintain an appropriately moderate level of complexity, (3) avoid having planes be either too dominant or too weak, and (4) be strategically interesting.

Given the speeds of ground units, naturally, more realistic air rules would have a plane going all over the board. For example, having every hex on the board under threat when there's a plane probably wouldn't work.

All in all, I think they came up with a good rule set, though no rule set is perfect. Planes on the ground are too vulnerable to Barrages. I find that planes weaken protected artillery too much, since they can't ignore flags.

I'll often play Air Rules against experienced opponents, though not always.
      
red_zebra
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Re:Air Pack Rules Sat, 23 April 2011 17:02
In fact, I hate when new scenarios do not allow air rules !
      
50th
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Re:Air Pack Rules Sat, 23 April 2011 19:56
sam1812 wrote on Sat, 23 April 2011 09:09

Admittedly, certain aspects of Air Rules are not realistic, but it had to (1) be retrofittable onto the existing rule set, (2) maintain an appropriately moderate level of complexity, (3) avoid having planes be either too dominant or too weak, and (4) be strategically interesting.

Given the speeds of ground units, naturally, more realistic air rules would have a plane going all over the board. For example, having every hex on the board under threat when there's a plane probably wouldn't work.

All in all, I think they came up with a good rule set, though no rule set is perfect. Planes on the ground are too vulnerable to Barrages. I find that planes weaken protected artillery too much, since they can't ignore flags.

I'll often play Air Rules against experienced opponents, though not always.


In my air rules, you can strafe four targets in a row, anywhere on the board. Or you can bomb two hexes, anywhere on the board. You can do true ground interdiction, which means attacking supply tents, road hexes (to slow down movement), railroad hexes and trains, bridges, ect. You can also rescue a heroic leader, make kamikaze attacks, and ground units may fight back! I added air interdiction for this latest version! What's not to like? The thing that keeps it from being too powerful is the fact that there are just two air sortie and one air power cards to activate your air units with. Although you do re-shuffle the deck after activating an air unit, the activation cards don't come up that often.

      
Erik Uitdebroeck
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Re:Air Pack Rules Sun, 24 April 2011 10:11
I am thinking of creating a house rule, using 50th's bombing rule (Thanks 50th), that allows you to bomb terrain also.
So a player can destroy towns and turn them into ruins (stop tanks), remove a road hex, bomb bridges, remove a rail road hex, and so on ...
Of course there must be a rule for the other player to rebuild certain things, like roads or bridges.

Just a thought ...

[Updated on: Sun, 24 April 2011 10:12]

      
Brycie35
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Re:Air Pack Rules Sun, 24 April 2011 11:42
I have re-read the Air rules to try and make more sense of the posts here. I see that an air check is made for any type of terrain (not just minefields) so perhaps that rules makes a bit more sense to me now.

I think also it is not only to represent not only random AA guns (I think AA guns is more reflected by adjacent enemy units) but also to reflect things like planes running low on fuel and returning to base, running out of Ammo, or a pilot error flying close to the ground. All these airs checks seem to be aimed at making sure aircraft are not too tough.

Its a tough one for me, and I'm not going to know how I feel about these rules for sure until I play them. They do seem ok to me and I'm willing to try them out first.

I think I will review each scenario in my upcoming pacific campaign and decide how the AP rules should be applied for each scenario separately, and give them a go.

If they don't go well, I can always remove them from the campaign at any stage.

The Air Pack is on order for me at the moment, and when it arrives I'm sure I will not be able to resist giving them a run. LOL

If I do like them, then I have the joy of reviewing and re-posting my 45 or so scenario with air rules! Yikes!! Shocked

Thanks to everybody for sharing their views and rules here! Wink
      
rasmussen81
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Re:Air Pack Rules Thu, 28 April 2011 21:24
Brycie,

As you play scenarios with the Air Rules, you might run across some questions...they can probably be found in the Official FAQ because people have had some confusion about certain aspects of the Air Rules.

Personally, I love the Air Rules as written and I play with them every time I have a chance! Cool
      
Brycie35
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Re:Air Pack Rules Fri, 29 April 2011 01:03
Thanks rasmussen81. Wink

Yes, I have printed out the FAQ booklet, and placed in in a plastic pocket folder for ready reference in preparation for my pacific War Campaign over the weekend away with my mates at end of May.

Its not only the Air Rules the FAQ booklet will come in handy for. Many of my mates have not even played much with the Pacific expansion, let alone the Winter Wars, Breakthrough and Mediterranean Expansions.
Its going to be a steep learning curve! LOL

I really like all the terrain and unit reference cards, i plan to make good use of those over the weekend, i think they will come in handy.

I plan to re-visit all my scenarios with the new rules, but its going to take some time.

I have 9 New Pacific scenarios, 3 of which I have made public. However, with the arrival of the new expansion this week I am currently reviewing updating them all with Winter Wars, Breakthrough, and Air rules. Once updated i shall post them online.

I hate having to update scenarios after i have already made public, but I will do so for the 3 which are already posted.

Thanks again, after the last weekend in May i will be able to post my own opinion of the Air Rules, i plan to give them a red hot go. I cant wait!! Wink
      
    
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