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Jokull
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Siege of Tobruk Sun, 04 September 2011 04:13
The Battle of the Salient or Ras El Madauur.

An interesting historical battle.

Of course it doesn't work just right, minefields hurt both sides, for some reason tanks cannot advance 2 hexes after armor overrun and the Italians just have nice badges.

But the Pioneers work and so do the exit hexes if you line them all with tokens.

Germans must press on hard to win but it is possible. It has so far only been played twice so the odds are off, but Jerry might have a harder time, but hey historically guess who lost?

7 medals keeps the game running for a while.

Lets hear what you think.
      
*player147123
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Re:Siege of Tobruk Sun, 04 September 2011 20:25
You have got to be kidding me with this scenario. It is like the Red Factory scenario except that the British have more cards and no commissar and more artillery and their infantry start in imporved positions in the center. The Germans are a. pinned against their rear edge, good luck if the allies ever start with or get an airstrike. b. The Germans have less artillery.

Oh, and actually won this as the germans LOL...
      
Nygaard
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Re:Siege of Tobruk Sun, 04 September 2011 21:19
mikeguth wrote on Sun, 04 September 2011 20:25

You have got to be kidding me with this scenario. It is like the Red Factory scenario except that the British have more cards and no commissar and more artillery and their infantry start in imporved positions in the center. The Germans are a. pinned against their rear edge, good luck if the allies ever start with or get an airstrike. b. The Germans have less artillery.

Oh, and actually won this as the germans LOL...


So basically it's nothing like the Red Barricades? Laughing

The problem with this scenario, is that there's too many units (on both sides), if you ask me. It doesn't feel "finished" when you reach 7 medals and there are still lots of units left on the board. And the Exit markers will very rarely come into play - since the center is just too packed.

Increase to 8 or 9 medals - remove or retreat at least one of the Allied artillery is my advice.

But I really enjoyed it - and won as the axis by exiting through the center... Smile

[Updated on: Sun, 04 September 2011 21:36]

      
Jokull
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Re:Siege of Tobruk Sun, 04 September 2011 21:37
Thank you for your comments

It is a historical battle and it had a high concentration of units over a little area...

I will wait a little and maybe move the Centre Rear Aussies a bit back.

Pitty the minefields don't work as they should and there are a few other errors too.

But Nygaard you are right, maybe a few more medals and medals for capturing bunkers.

It is still in progress.

As for finished... We have different views on the subject. Battles tended to be a little less decisive. They didn't always end in a clear result more the initative was lost and the power of the charge.

I think it is finished by the 7th medal.

The actual battle it seeks to emulate wasn't decisive in that both sides were same as they had been. The Germans got a small piece of real estate for to high a price and could not conitnue their offensive.

But I agree they might need a push.

Less units maybe, but this was the effort of 3 lead divisions against a fortress.

I'll give it a couple of days and then see what modifications are needed.

[Updated on: Sun, 04 September 2011 21:48]

      
Nygaard
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Re:Siege of Tobruk Sun, 04 September 2011 21:51
Medals for bunkers for the Germans would be a good idea. Would increase their strategic as well as tactical advantage.

I think maybe the mine-field is a little too heavy - especially since it currently restricts the ALLIED as well with the bug in Expert... Couldn't you remove a few in the "second line"?
      
Jokull
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Re:Siege of Tobruk Sun, 04 September 2011 22:02
There is only 2 in the second line Smile

Should be more, but I think moving the second line 1 hex back and adding medals to bunkers might just do it and add tension to the mission.

Yeap,

I need my home computer but I think we are onto something now.

And add the 8th medal. Makes a little longer game for your precious 3 credits!
      
Jokull
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Re:Siege of Tobruk Mon, 05 September 2011 02:39
IMPROVED

Moved the Aussie 2nd line back one hex and readjusted the minefield to give them more counterattack options which is what they did - as a German Officer remarked "My God, they are attacking with infantry"

They suffered for it.

Also gave the bunkers all a medal for the Axis

I did move the medals to win to 8 but found that it almost guaranteed an Aussie win since the Germans only have 12 units at the start they hardly have enough troops left to make 8 medals and leave infantry in bunkers.

7 is better.

I think the scenario is perfect this way and is very close to historical accuracy.

Thanks for the discussion!
      
*player147123
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Re:Siege of Tobruk Mon, 05 September 2011 04:59
Must disagree with Nygaard, respectfully of course. It is like Stalingrad in that the Germans have to fight their way through a very heavily defended front line. They also start pinned against their rear edge where an airstrike ends the game, NOT a good design element IMO, and in closer range of British artillery than at the factories.

I also disagree about decresing the medal count for victory. The Germans are going to take casualties breaking into the position, when their armor will hopefully have a chance of exploiting their card advantage. Ending the game earlier will favor the British even more.

So, it is like Stalingrad except even harder for the Germans.


      
Nygaard
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Re:Siege of Tobruk Mon, 05 September 2011 07:36
Air Power doesn't "end the game" - even less than in Red Barricades, actually (where the Germans risk loosing both their artilleries from the get-go), at most you loose your artillery (which isn't worth much any way) and a couple of figures of infantry or armor.

I seriously don't see the Red Barricades comparison... Unless every map with a heavily defended center and an attacking force is considered like the Red Barricades?

[Updated on: Mon, 05 September 2011 07:37]

      
Jokull
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Re:Siege of Tobruk Mon, 05 September 2011 14:40
Had to delete and reload so that the changes all took place, meaning that all former ratings are lost.

Playtesting has me convinced that 7 medals is optimal if the Germans are to have a reasonable chance to win. They get extra medals for the bunkers, but soon they will lack infantry to hold them.

The Secondary line of Aussies has been moved back so that is ok and gives the Germans a little more room to manoeuver.

And personaly I think it is more like Omaha than Red Barricadii

In history Rommel attacked this area in hopes of breaking into Tobruk and at least gaining the high ground. It was always a hard assault. Ideally night fighting rules should take place to represent initial night attack and sandstorms, but we shall wait til that is activated in the Editor. Would seriously increase the surviveability of the hapless German pioneers.

Also the bunkers were held by small forces, but to represent their fierce defence that threw the Germans off balance I think 4 infantry per unit is justified.

I am happy with it as is and think you guys could get a lot of fun games with it.

Jökull
      
southoftheborder
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Re:Siege of Tobruk Mon, 05 September 2011 23:28
Played it for the first time today.

First impressions were good, as ever you need to play a map a few times to get the feel for it. I felt the balance was about right.

Didn't think it was like Barricades at all.

      
jmacmo
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Re:Siege of Tobruk Tue, 06 September 2011 00:33
Thanks for all the work and the communications. I will give it a try!
      
    
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