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stevie02
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Scoring rant Sun, 10 June 2012 12:23
Just want to put in my tuppence worth, I know its been hashed and re-hashed but here goes :

Played Mont Muchet or whatever its called ! played both sides and each time the favoured side (axis) won, not a problem so far. I won 4-0 and then lost 4-3 to a fine player @ 1600. Now, who can explain to me why it should cost me in the region of 20 pts ?

I dont really want an explanation as I know how it works. Just wanting a rant.

Cheers Stevie Crying or Very Sad
      
Phread
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Re:Scoring rant Sun, 10 June 2012 12:43
I empathise with you - I have also written many words about the unfairness of the scoring system.

Many have advised me to ignore the points and play for the enjoyment - but it is hard to ignore the fact that a single loss (often due to bad dice or poor cards) will cost a lot of points.
      
Nygaard
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Re:Scoring rant Sun, 10 June 2012 12:48
stevie02 wrote on Sun, 10 June 2012 12:23

Just want to put in my tuppence worth, I know its been hashed and re-hashed but here goes :

Played Mont Muchet or whatever its called ! played both sides and each time the favoured side (axis) won, not a problem so far. I won 4-0 and then lost 4-3 to a fine player @ 1600. Now, who can explain to me why it should cost me in the region of 20 pts ?

I dont really want an explanation as I know how it works. Just wanting a rant.

Cheers Stevie Crying or Very Sad




I'm with you, Stevie!

I don't see why they can't at least change the system to count the points only after 2 games (and - like it is now in a single game - you can either end the games and not count them either way, or if one of the players abandon ship, you can finish the games against the computer).

[/Rant support]
      
sdnative
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Colonel

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Re:Scoring rant Sun, 10 June 2012 17:55
I agree!
Points should only be given after 2 games are played.
      
Kelly's Hero
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Re:Scoring rant Sun, 10 June 2012 20:04
stevie02 wrote on Sun, 10 June 2012 04:23

Just want to put in my tuppence worth, I know its been hashed and re-hashed but here goes :

Played Mont Muchet or whatever its called ! played both sides and each time the favoured side (axis) won, not a problem so far. I won 4-0 and then lost 4-3 to a fine player @ 1600. Now, who can explain to me why it should cost me in the region of 20 pts ?

I dont really want an explanation as I know how it works. Just wanting a rant.

Cheers Stevie Crying or Very Sad



Yep, I've seen the same thing many times. I can win the match but drop in points, even against higher-ranked players.

Shocked
      
JFKoski
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Re:Scoring rant Mon, 11 June 2012 03:58
The rank system is innapropriate for a game full of so many (unbalanced) scenarios and so much luck.

Consider yourself to have accomplished an achievement if at any time you reach the first page (top 20). After that try not to worry about it.

Making Lt. Colonel or Colonel is a better way to stand out from the multitude. A few losses won't take that away from you.
      
tank commander
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Re:Scoring rant Mon, 11 June 2012 04:26
The rating system does not make any sense at all. I lost two games recently (my dice and cards were terrible in both - is it any wonder I under performed in both?) and dropped an incredible 80 some odd spots!!

Also, some of the "top ranked" players mainly play one scenario.

One of the top ranked players plays opponents once and I suspect he plays the favored side. He also seems to play many players with a very low rating.

I find it very difficult to take those type of players and their ratings, along with the the current rating system, seriously and such players should not be rewarded.
      
Nygaard
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Re:Scoring rant Mon, 11 June 2012 11:40
tank commander wrote on Mon, 11 June 2012 04:26

The rating system does not make any sense at all. I lost two games recently (my dice and cards were terrible in both - is it any wonder I under performed in both?) and dropped an incredible 80 some odd spots!!

Also, some of the "top ranked" players mainly play one scenario.

One of the top ranked players plays opponents once and I suspect he plays the favored side. He also seems to play many players with a very low rating.

I find it very difficult to take those type of players and their ratings, along with the the current rating system, seriously and such players should not be rewarded.


Yeah - those "specialists" are a bit funny Smile
But since I've beaten everyone of them I've met on "their" map, I don't think they are above average when it comes to skill.
Hamon Serrano did an incredible job of collecting data by playing the same scenario over and over again, so he's the exception.
But the others are simply playing the skill-system which is flawed (DoW even said so repeatedly - so it's not just us).

From my experience the best players I've met are in random order:
Jesker (probably the best player over all, he's NEVER easy to beat),
Titanos,
Jdrommel (I think he has the best win-rate against me of all on the list),
JJAZ,
Praxeo (he wrote the book after all),
Quit2,
Jokull,
Morgiliath,
Buddheo (another Jesker it seems - haven't played him much because of the time difference),
JFKoski,
Jeronimon,
Guderian40,
Turboheizer,
Alwan,
Valentin de Ramilles,
Sam1812,
Vekkiller,
Mescalito,
Southoftheborder,
Willem of Normandy.
Helcat and Henry Pelham I've played a LOT on SFTFs - so often we've been more concerned with testing than competing.

I hope they change the system to a double-header point count, otherwise my goal of getting to 2000 points without "cheating" is going to be VERY hard Smile
      
Jeronimon
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Re:Scoring rant Mon, 11 June 2012 12:56
I don't care as much about the scoring (ranting or otherwise) but feel myself privileged to be named on this list.

I thank you for the compliment, sir! (Snappy Salute!)



I have not played everyone on the list, but the ones I have do tend to give you a run for your money.
(Except for southoftheborder, who tends to have bad luck against me. Laughing )


I will strive to meet (and beat?) the players I have not met yet.
For if they are on Magnus list they will provide a lot of fun and probably give me a good thrashing in the process. Razz
      
tank commander
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Re:Scoring rant Mon, 11 June 2012 14:43
Nygaard wrote on Mon, 11 June 2012 05:40

tank commander wrote on Mon, 11 June 2012 04:26

The rating system does not make any sense at all. I lost two games recently (my dice and cards were terrible in both - is it any wonder I under performed in both?) and dropped an incredible 80 some odd spots!!

Also, some of the "top ranked" players mainly play one scenario.

One of the top ranked players plays opponents once and I suspect he plays the favored side. He also seems to play many players with a very low rating.

I find it very difficult to take those type of players and their ratings, along with the the current rating system, seriously and such players should not be rewarded.


Yeah - those "specialists" are a bit funny Smile
But since I've beaten everyone of them I've met on "their" map, I don't think they are above average when it comes to skill.
Hamon Serrano did an incredible job of collecting data by playing the same scenario over and over again, so he's the exception.
But the others are simply playing the skill-system which is flawed (DoW even said so repeatedly - so it's not just us).

From my experience the best players I've met are in random order:
Jesker (probably the best player over all, he's NEVER easy to beat),
Titanos,
Jdrommel (I think he has the best win-rate against me of all on the list),
JJAZ,
Praxeo (he wrote the book after all),
Quit2,
Jokull,
Morgiliath,
Buddheo (another Jesker it seems - haven't played him much because of the time difference),
JFKoski,
Jeronimon,
Guderian40,
Turboheizer,
Alwan,
Valentin de Ramilles,
Sam1812,
Vekkiller,
Mescalito,
Southoftheborder,
Willem of Normandy.
Helcat and Henry Pelham I've played a LOT on SFTFs - so often we've been more concerned with testing than competing.

I hope they change the system to a double-header point count, otherwise my goal of getting to 2000 points without "cheating" is going to be VERY hard Smile



I play JJAZ on a regular basis and he is a top notch player. Sam1812 is also very good. I am pleased to have both of them play on my Yahoo Memoir '44 Ladder.

I have played a few others on your list. I shall try and meet up with the others on your list - I certainly would like to see how I do against them.

[Updated on: Mon, 11 June 2012 14:45]

      
hdescavernes
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Michael Wittmann

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Re:Scoring rant Mon, 11 June 2012 17:13
Quite the A-team indeed
      
JJAZ
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Re:Scoring rant Mon, 11 June 2012 18:38
Hi SIRS.
I pleases me to see my name amongst some of the best players there.
I have discussed this also before and as a die hard vassal player me and tank commander played over 100 games like CB1 and 2 and many other expansions back and forth.

The ranking system honestly i don't care about it, because if your number 1 you still probably lose at arnhem as axis from a newbie so that is what i like about this game, you learn a new player the ropes and i take the axis on Arnhem.

The dices are taking the fun away for me from the online version,
no logic there as said you win hard you lose hard 75% of the time.

25 % is fun and i mean scenario's back and forth no matter what the odds for the scenario are.

I played 5 games in the online tournament and had nearly not 1 even game dice or card wise.

[Updated on: Mon, 11 June 2012 18:56]

      
tank commander
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October 2004
Re:Scoring rant Tue, 13 January 2015 23:26
tank commander wrote on Sun, 10 June 2012 22:26

The rating system does not make any sense at all. I lost two games recently (my dice and cards were terrible in both - is it any wonder I under performed in both?) and dropped an incredible 80 some odd spots!!

Also, some of the "top ranked" players mainly play one scenario.

One of the top ranked players plays opponents once and I suspect he plays the favored side. He also seems to play many players with a very low rating.

I find it very difficult to take those type of players and their ratings, along with the the current rating system, seriously and such players should not be rewarded.


This is no concern to me anymore. It was sort of funny how
I had an incredibly bad 10 game losing streak and dropped to below 300 and now I in the number 8 spot. Ebb and flow, so it goes.

Just for fun I looked at one of the top players and saw that 72% of his games were against ranks of Lt and lower (over half cadets). He also played the favored side over 65% of the time and rarely played a scenario from a heavily unfavorable side. I would never exceed his rating unless I followed suit and played the same way. I prefer to play matches against all ranks though.


      
waltero
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Tenente Colonello

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January 2008
Re:Scoring rant Sat, 24 January 2015 23:48
This site (m44) has nothing going for it...nothing to look forward too, absolutely nothing positive.

I did not realize I could come out on the losing end (in points) playing against a higher ranking player, with me being the winner of the match.

Just another factor to be ignored...points (score) are irrelevant.
Time to move towered Vassal.











      
sam1812
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Re:Scoring rant Sun, 25 January 2015 01:04
waltero, if I recall correctly, DOW introduced the rating system in Memoir Online's open beta. They released a white paper explaining how the formulas work. There were a couple of lengthy threads discussing the rating system's flaws and how it could be improved. But because at the time there were so many bugs in the program and various scenarios, fixing the playability was (rightly) more important than fixing the rating formula. DOW did a great job of fixing the bugs, but they never got a round to improving the rating formula.

There are still lots of great scenarios to play here, and lots of interesting people to play them with. Personally, I don't worry about the rating formula, because it doesn't actually matter.

At the same time, Vassal is great, too. I play both Memoir Online and Memoir on Vassal enthusiastically.
      
waltero
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January 2008
Re:Scoring rant Mon, 26 January 2015 09:57
I agree, Days of wonder did a great job!
Many of you have been around from the beginning, your hopes have been crushed and you have moved on, I am just arriving and find out this site was dead before I even got here.

Join M44 online if you want to learn, tournament, ladder, rank, medals, these are what keep players going. I would love to purchase more ingots if only to have some incentive...score would do it for me.
Without a proper scoring system this "online" game is starting to bore me.
Seems to me it would be worthwhile to have a proper scoring system to keep members coming back.

Am I to understand that days of wonder no longer has any support for the online M44 gaming site?

I am pulling for a functional scoring system, get er done and you have my support.

Waltero






      
sam1812
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Re:Scoring rant Wed, 28 January 2015 02:38
The fact that it still exists online, and the fact that its downtime is nearly nil, says that DOW is giving it some level of support.

They just don't seem to be spending time improving it.

Personally, I think it would be great if they could implement all the features of Memoir, but I recognize that DOW's management and programmers probably have bigger priorities at the moment for their limited resources. (For example, Ticket to Ride has sold over 3,000,000 units.)

Of course, I also don't get upset because there haven't been any new expansions lately for chess. Smile
      
Quit2
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Re:Scoring rant Wed, 28 January 2015 16:32
sam1812 wrote on Wed, 28 January 2015 02:38


Of course, I also don't get upset because there haven't been any new expansions lately for chess. Smile

I don't agree with this comparison. The full game of chess is available on many online platforms.

The problem with the complaints about Memoir is that the online version covers only part of what is available for the board game.

I don't say I want to complain, I just say I understand why people would complain.
      
LooneyLlama
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Re:Scoring rant Wed, 28 January 2015 17:09
Wim,

I think Sam was trying to be funny with that comment about chess. He really wasn't trying to make a comparison with MEM44.

With all the new expansions, rules and units that have come out since the online version, I find myself not as interested in playing the online game much anymore.
I don't think an iPad version would make much of a difference even though I'm using one right now. I would rather see an upgrade on the original.

However, I do very much enjoy Vassal. Everything is up to date, it really isn't that hard to learn and you can play a wide variety of scenarios with all the latest rules etc. To be able to play Overlord with great players and even our upcoming double Breaklord game keeps the game very fresh and exciting. I highly recommend it.
      
Clexton27
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Major Howard

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February 2007
Re:Scoring rant Wed, 28 January 2015 19:19
Real Memoir '44 men play VASSAL!

Very Happy Surprised Shocked Rolling Eyes Laughing Laughing

[Updated on: Wed, 28 January 2015 19:20]

      
    
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