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Clexton27
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Sun, 27 November 2016 22:24
StridsvagnS wrote on Sun, 27 November 2016 02:55

Hullo!
In scenarios where Molotov cocktails are used, is there a pool of tokens to be used by the player as he pleases or are the tokens designated to particular infantry units on the board?


From the Khalkhin-Gol Rulebook p.5:
Quote:

When Molotov Cocktails rules are in effect, take as many Molotov Cocktails as indicated in the scenario’s special rules. When declaring a Close Assault with an Infantry unit, before rolling the dice, you can discard a Molotov Cocktail: in that case, any Star rolled will count as a hit for that Close Assault combat.


Seems pretty straight forward in the rules. Each scenario tells you how many you get for that scenario and any infantry unit in close assault may use them until they are gone. I would imagine since an AMBUSH is a defensive action and it is a DECLARED close assault on the offense that matters, you would not be able to use one in an AMBUSH.

https://cdn1.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/fr/img/mm_khalkhin-go l_rules.pdf

[Updated on: Sun, 27 November 2016 22:29]

      
Storm72
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Sun, 27 November 2016 23:23
Hello All;

I Live in the USA and I was able to Pre-Order Memoir 44: Battles of Khalkhin-Gol Battle Map from a popular gaming site for $19.99.

Is it OK for me to tell everyone where or is that against Forum Rules / Policy?

Thank You.
      
Clexton27
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Mon, 28 November 2016 00:55
Storm72 wrote on Sun, 27 November 2016 17:23

Hello All;

I Live in the USA and I was able to Pre-Order Memoir 44: Battles of Khalkhin-Gol Battle Map from a popular gaming site for $19.99.

Is it OK for me to tell everyone where or is that against Forum Rules / Policy?

Thank You.

I already told them in a prior post. No harm done.
      
Storm72
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Mon, 28 November 2016 07:01
Nice!

Totally missed that....
      
général Georges
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Mon, 28 November 2016 16:48
Clexton27 écrit le Sun, 27 November 2016 22:24

I would imagine since an AMBUSH is a defensive action and it is a DECLARED close assault on the offense that matters, you would not be able to use one in an AMBUSH.
The rule says "close assault", not "offensive close assault". Therefore, Molotov cocktails may be used as well in defensive situations as in offensive ones.
      
Clexton27
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Mon, 28 November 2016 18:26
général Georges wrote on Mon, 28 November 2016 10:48

Clexton27 écrit le Sun, 27 November 2016 22:24

I would imagine since an AMBUSH is a defensive action and it is a DECLARED close assault on the offense that matters, you would not be able to use one in an AMBUSH.
The rule says "close assault", not "offensive close assault". Therefore, Molotov cocktails may be used as well in defensive situations as in offensive ones.

I understand your response friend but I will strongly disagree.
The rule states a condition for the use of the Molotov Cocktail -"When declaring a close assault with an Infantry unit"
When you are playing an AMBUSH card, it is in response to someone else's
Declaration of a Close Assault, not your own and hence the condition is not met. Declaring a Close Assault is an offensive action / an AMBUSH is a defensive reaction.

      
Cpl_Uhl
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Mon, 28 November 2016 19:06
I feel a FAQ comming up Very Happy
      
Clexton27
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  Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Mon, 28 November 2016 19:28
Cpl_Uhl wrote on Mon, 28 November 2016 13:06

I feel a FAQ comming up Very Happy

Yes, and I will find out that no matter how logical my answer is, I will probably be wrong. Embarassed Laughing Laughing Laughing
      
Achtung Panzer
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Mon, 28 November 2016 20:44
By definition the Ambush card can only be played as a Close Assualt. I agree it should be used by the turn player but your argument alone does not prevent it being played by the defending player.

[Updated on: Mon, 28 November 2016 20:44]

      
Jeronimon
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Mon, 28 November 2016 20:53
In the Dutch Open this year we made up our own Molotov's.
They were also operational on the Ambush card.

The Following is not an official M44 card. We made it for the Dutch open this year for the Finnish people! Smile

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/30626174/M44%20Stuff/Dutch%20Open/DO2016/M44CCSWA21MolotovBold.png

They looked like this (here on a Finnish Skier):

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/30626174/M44%20Stuff/Dutch%20Open/DO2016/Dutch%20Open%202016%20%28121%29.JPG
      
Achtung Panzer
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Sun, 04 December 2016 15:59
Any sign of UK availability e.g. pre-order sites?
      
KeLian_05
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Sun, 04 December 2016 16:35
Well Jeronimon, i think that your rule is better than the one in the battle map. Very Happy
      
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Wed, 14 December 2016 20:00
So, any information about release date?
      
armchairprivate
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Fri, 16 December 2016 03:07
January 5th in the U.S.
      
Storm72
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Sat, 24 December 2016 01:02
So - In Case anyone needs a copy of Memoir 44 Pacific Theater to go along with the New Battle Map -
CSI has them in stock again.
Very Happy
      
Aussie_Digger
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Thu, 29 December 2016 04:22
Achtung Panzer wrote on Tue, 29 November 2016 05:14

By definition the Ambush card can only be played as a Close Assualt. I agree it should be used by the turn player but your argument alone does not prevent it being played by the defending player.


I agree the condition has been meet by the rules since attacking an adjacent hex is considered a close assault. I think from how the rules are written a FAQ is only needed if you can't use a Molotov token when playing an ambush card such as a cavet when over run and advance after combat are dealt with when discussing the ambush card.

I think the ambushing player being able to use the Molotov token fits very well thematically since it was a close range weapon you want your enemy to get in as close as possible without seeing you before using them. They were best used in a surprise situation.
      
Jeronimon
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Tue, 03 January 2017 09:57
The Ambush card poses another intersting question: it is unclear when to anounce your intention to use the Molotov versus an ambush of your opponent. Both are just before the diceroll. Do I anounce Molotov, then get flagged in the ambush and lose the token? Or does my opponent have the obligation to anounce ambush before I declare Molotov?

Losing 50% or 33% of your tokens seemed to harsh for us, so we played it like the ambush order comes before the Molotov order.
The thought behind this is that when you do not attack (because the enemy ambushed you and pushed you away) you also do not throw your Molotovs.
      
Jeronimon
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Tue, 03 January 2017 10:00
Here is a review I posted on Board Game Geek yesterday:

After a long break there is a new expansion for Memoir’44. The fans have been waiting a long time for this. Also it is a battle map! On the cover it states: The Battle Map Series II – Volume 1. Thus inferring there will be more Volumes following. As the first four battle maps are still very much sought by Memoir’44 players this seems to be a good “Battle Plan” for Asmodee/Days of Wonder.

Also from a player point of view: setting up the larger scenarios (Overlord Breakthrough) can be time consuming. So having preprinted maps for Overlords and Breakthroughs helps speed things along. Especially handy for play days/evenings of the many Memoir’44 communities spread around the globe.

We, the Memoir’44 Brigade Nederland, got our hands on a copy early on because someone won it as a prize at the Memoire 44 French Open 2016. So in December on an evening we played the two Overlords and the following Monday I played the campaign against another player. I have now played all battles once and thought I was ready to write a review.


Content
The package looks like we are used to from the first series of Battle maps, with the plastic minis of the Tankettes and Armored Cars on the front. Of the provided Battle maps the Cape Torokina Landings Overlord is the most striking with its large Bright Blue Ocean part.
The bilingual maps (English and French) have the historical information, rules for this scenario and the appropriate compendium cards printed on the sides as usual. And also as usual it all looks fine and makes me want to set up and play as soon as possible.
There are some cardboard badges and tokens with this expansion you need to set up if you do not own certain previous expansions. (field bunkers, landing craft, destroyers, machine gun, anti tank, mortar, Big Guns, Flame thrower tanks, cavalry, Russian special forces, Russian Engineers, Russian snipers, Russian medals, Japanese, medals, Japanese special forces, Japanese engineers, green stars)

Specific for this expansion there are Molotov tokens, and curiously also tokens for armored car and tankettes. Those last you do not need because you already have the plastic mini’s for that.


The minis
Fit in very well with al the other Memoir’44 gear and are of the same quality. They are the uniform grey that was also used for the equipment pack, but I feel the plastic is a little bit harder, so no crooked barrels here. Although that could also be due to the smaller barrels used for these two units.

Here is a link to the rules for this expansion: https://cdn1.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/img/mm_khalkhin-go l_rules.pdf


The Campaign
The Battles are usually fast and furious and do not last long. Most of them are only 5 medals.So it is very possible to play the whole campaign in about a day or two evenings. (Not having to set up the Breakthroughs really helps save time here.)

Overall known Rules for all scenarios:
Known rules: All the scenarios play with the Japanese and Russian nations rules. Machine guns (early war), anti tank guns (early war) and big guns are very frequently featured, mostly on the Russian side. All stream are fordable (Terrain 61- Fordable streams)


Rules more specific for this expansion:
Air rules are not in effect. Neither side has Air Superiority, so both sides roll 1 die when the Air Power card is played.
All armor moves may only move 1-2 hexes and battle, except the Axis Te-Ke armor, which may still move 1-3 hexes and battle.
Tankettes and Armored Cars are new units specific for this expansion. (For the rules see link above)
Cavalry is also present in a lot of the battles, and featured on both sides, so we also have Japanese Cavalry.
A new action: Molotov Cocktails is introduced. When in effect you get a limited number of Molotov Cocktails (2 or 3) that you can use on specific dice rolls, to be announced before rolling. If played stars also count as hits in Close assault.

My take on the above:
I do like it that the Air Power only gives one die per hex to both sides. Although there is only one Air Power in the deck, the two dice per hex for the allies normally, can have a huge impact. It is more balanced this way, which is especially good since the scenarios tend to be on the short side.
The rule that normal armor may only move 1-2 hexes as opposed to the Tankettes still going 1-3 adds a tactical layer to the game. The Tankettes are more maneuverable but after two hits your opponent has a shiny medal. Makes for tough choices on the battlefield.
The armored cars are even more maneuverable on the battlefield and can race from one end to the other, very dangerous in the Sudden Death scenarios. As there are a few scenarios where both sides have armored cars some way of distinguishing which is which is needed. We used the reserve tokens form the Campaign Books to denote nationality.
Japanese Cavalry poses a question, as the cards state “Ordered as infantry” you can take this to mean that the Japanese nation rules are in effect for the Japanese Cavalry. Meaning they must ignore flags and battle at plus 1 die when full strength in Close Assault. We decided that we would play the Cavalry without the Japanese nation rules, so retreating per flag and no extra die.
Molotov Cocktails: I do not feel that this is a winner. They only impact 2 or 3 dice-rolls in the whole of the game, and only close combat ones. We tended to forget to play them, as the tokens are somewhere next to the board. They are only used in only one of the campaign scenarios (and one Overlord). I feel they have been added as more of an afterthought. (And I have seen houserules for Molotov Cocktails that make a lot more sense in my opinion.)


New Campaign Rules
This expansion introduces new simplified Campaign rules. If you want you can still play with the campaign rules introduced in Campaign Books Volume 1 and 2. We tried out the new rules.
Under the new rules you throw one die (consecutively) per each figure on your medal stand at the end of the scenario. If you destroy it, in the next scenario your opponent has to remove such a figure before beginning the next scenario.
Should you be lucky enough to capture an objective, you can throw 2 dice for each objective and maybe gain a reserve unit for the next scenario. But limited to the units that are on the board at the beginning of that scenario. (See also link above for rules.)

My opinion
The roll for each figure on the medal stand works well and works fast. It also adds more of what you have achieved in this scenario to what follows as opposed to the “traditional” extra die form the Campaign books for a win. More casualties mean more chances of hampering your opponent in the next battle. But beware of lady luck, I won a battle 7-2 but the “casualties for the next battle were 2-2. Sad Smile
The reserve roll does not work very well I think. It is definitely less “hassle” than the reserve tokens administration, but as there are not very many objectives to gain not a lot of reserve rolls are made in this campaign. Also because of the short battles and availabilty of troops a lucky reserve roll can get you unit that makes the battle very lopsided. Happened to us in one scenario, see below)


Let’s play!
A quick review of the scenarios featured in the Campaign.
You need the Terrain Pack to set up the scenarios, for there are a lot of roads. We played with the Japanese, Russians, Machine Guns, Big guns, Cavalry etc.,but you could play with only the base-set and tokens and badges. (But who wants to do that! Smile )
The Japanese get 5 cards throughout the standard scenarios the Russians 6 cards, but they have the Commisar to deal with. (one exception the first scenario where they get 5)
All of the scenarios play fast, mostly because the Japanese tend to want to exploit their nations advantages. That makes for short (sometimes very short) battles. Because of the short battles luck can play a larger factor. In longer games luck tends to even out. But if you get three or four strong cards in the beginning and some luck with the dice your opponent is going to have a rough time.
Having said that these scenarios still play more tactical than a lot of the desert battles that memoir’44 has in the Mediterranean expansion. The terrain adds layers of tactics that those scenarios certainly lack.

1.The Khalkhin Gol Spark
The Japanese on the attack with infantry and Cavalry. The Russians trying to stop them with tanks armored cars cavalry machine gun Big gun and an engineers unit (the only one featured in the entire campaign).

Introduction of the armored car and Japanese Cavalry. Both of which needed some getting used to. But a fast moving and interesting battle the terrain offers some choices.

2. Kawamata bridge
Almoste the same map, just a shift of a few hexes. Russian defending again.

Introduction of the Tankettes for the Japanese and flamethrower tanks for the Russians.
The Japanese Tankettes and Armored car race over the field, but the Russians chase after them with their troops. Remember two hits and your Tankettes are gone!
Again fast paced but still tactical play and an enjoyable scenario.

3. Bain Tsagan Heights (Breakthrough)
Break out the Breakthrough Deck and play this one. I think the most enjoyable scenario of the campaign. It lasts for 10 medals and features all the extras this expansion has on offer, including the Molotovs.

Lots of options and choices to make for both sides, and two Majority objectives to fight over and around And fight we did! Very enjoyable.

4. Soviet infiltration
This scenario has a Sudden death rule if the Russians occupy the HQ/supply-tent (in their right flank) at the beginning of their turn they have won immediately.
At the start the Russians have a very strong left flank with 5 of their units positioned at the Japanese baseline.

The Japanese need to guard the HQ/supply-tent very well either a Behind Enemy Lines or that Russian armored car can go for that sudden Death! In our game the Japanese had managed to get an extra Tankettes unit from the reserve roll, which made it much much easier for the Japanese. Banzai!

5. The Halha River Shelling
Setting up the scenario I thought they had misprinted, because the terrain is exactly the same as in scenario 1. But it was not a misprint: the Japanese are back to try again! This time with artillery. ☺ More troops for both sides, and more medals. The only standard scenario where you needed to get 7 medals for a win.

Because of the seven medals the game plays longer and more tactics are involved. The way I like it! In the top 3 for this campaign.

6.Down in the Dumps
Again the Sudden Death rule if the Russians occupy the HQ/supply-tent (in their right flank) at the beginning of their turn they have won immediately. But this time much harder for the Japanese to defend the objective.

A fun scenario where the Russians can put their armored cars to good use threatening the Sudden Death Objective.

7. Attack on the Soviet Outpost
The Japanese need to get an attack going against well defended Russians. Their chance to deploy their armored cars to maximum efficiency.

Japanese Tankettes, Armored cars and infantry need to coordinate well to unhinge the Russian. If the Russians defend well the 5 medals will be theirs before the Japanese overrun them in one flank or the other.

8. Tightening the Noose
A Breakthrough but only to 8 medals. And with a curious objective: as long as the Japanese have units in al three sections they have 2 medals. If they do not the Russians have 1 medal. Turn start for both sides. A very lopsided battle (it seems), the Russians start with 24 units and the Japanese with 13. And 5 of those Japanese units are totally encircled by the Russians. A race for medals immediately ensues.

This looked like a walkover for the Russian but the Japanese start with the two medals of the objective. And if they play it right they can get some quick medals which puts pressure on the Russians. In our case the Russians did not blink and took the game 8-6, which was about 4 more medals than we both thought the Japanese would have at the end. ☺ Despite how it looked a very enjoyable scenario, but much to short for a Breakthrough I felt. Luckily the map was preprinted!


Overlords
Two preprinted Overlords in this expansion.

1. The Khalkhin Gol Encirclement
Not part of the campaign, but can be played for historical flavor. Featuring all of the above mentioned rules, including 2 Molotov Cocktails for each Japanese Field general. Lots of different troops to play with and majority objectives to fight over.

In short: Fun fun fun!
We really enjoyed this one and will certainly play it a lot. Nice for less experienced player to get to know “strange” units while being coached by more experienced players. Good fun for Memoir’44 playdays/evenings/et cetera.


2. Cape Torokina Landings
15 medals to win. Not related to Khalkhin Gol at all, but a battle later in the war. Featuring late war SWA as opposed to the early war SWA in Khalkhin Gol. The Japanese defend the Coast against the marines who want to land. Japanese rules in effect as well as the Us marine Corps rules.

A modified objective rule: as long as there is one Japanese figure on Torokina Island the Japanese gain one medal. The same goes for Puruata Island. Also modified landing craft rules: troops aboard can only be hit on grenades. And if the craft moves only one hex before landing and unloading unloaded troops can battle on that turn.

Visually stunning with the blue ocean and yellow beaches, we could not wait to play this one. After looking at the “sea”-flank we were a bit worried though about playability. And rightly so. On the other flank the marines landed and the fighting was fierce, but as soon as the Marines cleared Puruata Island the Japanese Field general only has two units left. Also at that point each side has about 9-11 medals and is searching for how or where to get the final 4-6 medals.
Crossing the ocean is hazardous/impossible because the other side can shoot at you but not you cannot shoot at the other side. Also it takes a long time to cross/land troops.
So, It plays fast and furious until about 10 medals and then it becomes much much slower. Especially for the two Field generals facing each other on the Ocean Flank. The Japanese with only a few units and the American with a lot of ground/ocean to cover.
Yes, we have only played it once so far, but the analysis we feel is accurate predicts this outcome. We will of course play again and hope others will chime in with their opinion.


Remarks
I don’t get why you would add tokens for Armored cars and Tankettes for which you already get the minis. Providing national flag symbols to denote the nationalities of these armored cars would seem an improvement.
Because of the speed of the battles, luck plays a bigger role in these battles. But if you play the whole campaign this evens out I feel.
Tankettes are named in the rules for the final breakthrough, but not printed on the map.


Hit
Tankettes and Armored cars are nice units to add to the Memoir’44 collection.
The Khalkhin Gol scenarios play well and are entertaining, I think for beginners and accomplished players alike.


Miss
The Molotov Cocktails do not add a lot to the game.
Cape Torokina Landings: I feel like has been added on to fill the back of the Khalkhin Gol encirclement and did not get the attention it needed. It has the feel of something that could be great but has not stepped up to the mark. But it is visually stunning, if Khalkhin Gol Encirclement wasn’t on the back I would maybe hang it on the Wall. Smile


Conclusion
The new units, especially the Tankettes, add to Memoir’44. I was educated about a theatre of battle I knew virtually nothing about before this expansion. I found this a very interesting Campaign with fast and furious battles but with enough tactics and strategy in them to keep me thoroughly entertained. If you want to play a fast campaign with enjoyable battles, this one is for you.


And a link to some pictures on Board Game Geek: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/209827/memoir-4 4-battles-khalkhin-gol/images
      
Clexton27
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Tue, 03 January 2017 18:48
Thanks Jeronimon for the update. It would be great to get some clarification on the rules regarding AMBUSH and Molotovs. Also to find out where the units go that aren't printed on the maps.
      
Jeronimon
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Tue, 03 January 2017 20:40
Well, I presume the Te-Ke Units are not in the last Breakthrough. And leaving them in the rules was an mistake, but I could be wrong. Smile

Then we have to replay the scenario and I can win it! Smile
      
LooneyLlama
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Wed, 04 January 2017 19:34
Jeroen,

Thanks for the update on the new expansion. Since my group likes to play Overlords it was nice to hear that the Khalkhin Gol encirclement is good. Sad to hear that the Cape Torokina Landings wasn't so good. Darn.

I'm like you, I prefer 6-7 medal regular scenarios. More strategy comes into play. 5 medal scenarios are not my favorites.

Anyway, if you like Richard's Command and Colors block games(I do) I saw that he is coming out with a Revolutionary War one.

I'm back working on some new Overlords as I have been developing a non war game of my own. A game development company has shown a lot of interest.

I hope to try out my new Overlords on Vassal on Sunday mornings soon. Hope you can make it.

[Updated on: Wed, 04 January 2017 19:36]

      
Storm72
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Sat, 07 January 2017 05:06
My Copy is On The Way!

Unfortunately - CSI is already out of stock...
Confused
      
gheintze
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Sat, 07 January 2017 05:15
Mine is at my FLGS. Smile Unfortunately, we're getting 6-10 inches of snow in North Carolina tonight, so I won't have it until the midde of next week at the earliest.

Geoff
      
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Sat, 07 January 2017 14:47
LooneyLlama wrote on Wed, 04 January 2017 13:34


I hope to try out my new Overlords on Vassal on Sunday mornings soon. Hope you can make it.


Count me in when you do Smile
      
Clexton27
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Sat, 07 January 2017 15:08
Storm72 wrote on Fri, 06 January 2017 23:06

My Copy is On The Way!

Unfortunately - CSI is already out of stock...
Confused

Yes, got the item shipped email since I preordered, but when I went to the website for CSI it states that they are already OUT OF STOCK. They must have sold out on their first shipment through preorders.
      
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Sat, 07 January 2017 15:36
I also got word my order was shipped. I hope to have this on the table at my local game shop in 2 weeks time. If that happens I will do a report.
      
Quit2
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Sun, 08 January 2017 23:45
Rules question:

Which of the IJA rules count for Japanese Cavalry?
      
sam1812
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Mon, 09 January 2017 00:33
Quit2 wrote on Sun, 08 January 2017 17:45

Rules question:

Which of the IJA rules count for Japanese Cavalry?

There was an official ruling that all of the IJA rules count for Japanese Engineers, so I would assume that they all count for Cavalry by the same logic.
      
Quit2
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Mon, 09 January 2017 00:49
sam1812 wrote on Mon, 09 January 2017 00:33

Quit2 wrote on Sun, 08 January 2017 17:45

Rules question:

Which of the IJA rules count for Japanese Cavalry?

There was an official ruling that all of the IJA rules count for Japanese Engineers, so I would assume that they all count for Cavalry by the same logic.

At the same time, there was an official ruling that they don't count for a sniper. So I wouldn't assume anything.
      
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Mon, 09 January 2017 02:02
Quit2 wrote on Sun, 08 January 2017 17:45

Rules question:
Which of the IJA rules count for Japanese Cavalry?

Although Cavalry are ordered as an Infantry Unit they do not move or battle like an Infantry. The may move 0-3 and on a successful Close Assault battle they may also do an Overrun Battle. I think giving the benefit of extra dice and no retreat on first flag as well would be a little overkill.

[Updated on: Mon, 09 January 2017 02:09]

      
sam1812
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Mon, 09 January 2017 04:45
Let, see ... what kinds of infantry units are there, and how would they be affected by IJA rules?

IJA special rules apply
Standard
Special Forces
Engineers
SWA (except that early-war SWA can't move and battle) (CB2 page 10 specifies, "An Infantry unit with a SWA attached is treated like an Infantry unit for all purposes...")
Depleted units (though since they're depleted, they don't get the +1d at full strength rule)
Jungle Troops

IJA special rules don't apply
Snipers

Not officially decided, or never been used in Official scenarios (as far as I'm aware)
*Brandenbergers (Couldn't battle at +1, because they lose a figure.)
*Partisans (French Resistance)
*Ski Troops
*Supported Infantry
Cavalry
Dragoons
Command Cars (Would they be required to ignore a flag?)
Patrol Cars (Jeeps)
Supply Trucks (Would they be required to ignore a flag?)

* Types marked with an asterisk seem to me like they surely would get IJA privileges.

Noting that one of the hallmarks of the C&C series has always been its relative simplicity, it would seem strange to require players to make a list of which special rules apply to which types of infantry.

Quit2 makes an excellent point about Snipers having a different rule from other infantry units, but I think they're the exception.

(I note that if Japanese Snipers could close assault with +1d while at full strength, and can move into terrain and battle, then opposing artillery would be doomed.)
      
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Mon, 09 January 2017 16:23
Clexton27 wrote on Mon, 09 January 2017 02:02

Quit2 wrote on Sun, 08 January 2017 17:45

Rules question:
Which of the IJA rules count for Japanese Cavalry?

Although Cavalry are ordered as an Infantry Unit they do not move or battle like an Infantry. The may move 0-3 and on a successful Close Assault battle they may also do an Overrun Battle. I think giving the benefit of extra dice and no retreat on first flag as well would be a little overkill.

Are the Polish dragoons overkill? They ignore a flag and have the extra die.
      
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Mon, 09 January 2017 18:43
Quit2 wrote on Mon, 09 January 2017 10:23


Are the Polish dragoons overkill? They ignore a flag and have the extra die.


You have a good point. I concede. I will play however Sam tells me to play Laughing Laughing Laughing

[Updated on: Mon, 09 January 2017 18:43]

      
sam1812
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Tue, 10 January 2017 03:41
Okay, I'll grant that Japanese Polish Dragoons is a question better left to Samurai Battles, but I wanted to you get my point. Smile
      
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Tue, 10 January 2017 10:56
sam1812 wrote on Sun, 08 January 2017 21:45

Let, see ... what kinds of infantry units are there, and how would they be affected by IJA rules?

IJA special rules apply
Standard
Special Forces
Engineers
SWA (except that early-war SWA can't move and battle) (CB2 page 10 specifies, "An Infantry unit with a SWA attached is treated like an Infantry unit for all purposes...")
Depleted units (though since they're depleted, they don't get the +1d at full strength rule)
Jungle Troops

IJA special rules don't apply
Snipers

Not officially decided, or never been used in Official scenarios (as far as I'm aware)
*Brandenbergers (Couldn't battle at +1, because they lose a figure.)
*Partisans (French Resistance)
*Ski Troops
*Supported Infantry
Cavalry
Dragoons
Command Cars (Would they be required to ignore a flag?)
Patrol Cars (Jeeps)
Supply Trucks (Would they be required to ignore a flag?)

* Types marked with an asterisk seem to me like they surely would get IJA privileges.

Noting that one of the hallmarks of the C&C series has always been its relative simplicity, it would seem strange to require players to make a list of which special rules apply to which types of infantry.

Quit2 makes an excellent point about Snipers having a different rule from other infantry units, but I think they're the exception.

(I note that if Japanese Snipers could close assault with +1d while at full strength, and can move into terrain and battle, then opposing artillery would be doomed.)


Why would Japanese rules work with French resistance or Polish dragoons? Or supported infantry, which have only been used in the D_Day expansion? The Japanese didn't have very much armor.And when they did have armor, most of it had such thin armor that I house rule the use of two figures per unit.
      
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Tue, 10 January 2017 14:36
50th wrote on Tue, 10 January 2017 04:56

Why would Japanese rules work with French resistance or Polish dragoons? Or supported infantry, which have only been used in the D_Day expansion? The Japanese didn't have very much armor.And when they did have armor, most of it had such thin armor that I house rule the use of two figures per unit.

Apparently it seems one way to me and another way to you. To me, it's an issue of consistency in the game mechanics: A player without an up-to-date FAQ shouldn't need to figure out which ones follow a special rule and which ones don't.

If regular IJA is +1 at full strength in close assault without armor, then I would expect it to also be +1 when armor is added (if ever such a unit is used in an official scenario).

I've seen scenarios with Partisans from other nations, though I'm not sure what it would take to have Japanese Partisans. If there were such a thing, I'd expect them to be just as fierce as the uniformed soldiers.

[Updated on: Tue, 10 January 2017 14:41]

      
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Tue, 10 January 2017 23:15
sam1812 wrote on Tue, 10 January 2017 14:36


I've seen scenarios with Partisans from other nations, though I'm not sure what it would take to have Japanese Partisans. If there were such a thing, I'd expect them to be just as fierce as the uniformed soldiers.


These where never in offical scenarios if im correct. DOW has stated that they will only adress this kind of questions if they adress official scenarios.
This question is about that....
I was discussing this with last saturday and maybe it could help that Cavalry isn't infantry its just ordered as infantry:

Eastern front page 6


The Infantry with a Cavalry badge are Cavalry units.
Place 4 Infantry figures and a Cavalry Badge in the hexes as
indicated in the scenario.
A Cavalry unit is ordered like a regular infantry unit.

So could this be interpreted that although they are ordered as infantry they are still cavelry? if this is the case the Japanese Seishin Kyoiku Doctrine does not apply on cavalry because they are not infantry (although they are ordered like them)

..... But I honestly don't know.... Memoir'44 rules are not always that logic and consistency
      
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Wed, 11 January 2017 14:06
Instead of expressing what we think it should be, and discussing about it while there are valid arguments for both viewpoints, we could have someone contact a person who can give an official answer. (Antoine, Richard himself, ...) Is there anyone who can get the question to someone who can answer it?
      
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Wed, 11 January 2017 17:55
I can see about passing the question on to Richard. Could someone put it in a clear FAQ-style question that I can pose?

I'm afraid I haven't been following the discussion the whole time. Thanks! Cool
      
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Re:Relive the early hours of World War II, far in the east with Memoir ’44: The Battles of Khalkhin- Wed, 11 January 2017 18:58
rasmussen81 wrote on Wed, 11 January 2017 11:55

I can see about passing the question on to Richard. Could someone put it in a clear FAQ-style question that I can pose?

I'm afraid I haven't been following the discussion the whole time. Thanks! Cool

Here are a series of questions that were currently discussed in this post:

Q. May a Molotov Cocktail be used by the defender playing an AMBUSH card?

Q. When playing as the attacker using a Molotov Cocktail, if the defender plays an AMBUSH card, and I am forced to retreat and therefore not battle, do I lose the Molotov Cocktail or can I save the token for another battle?

Q. On the Tightening the Noose Breakthrough scenario Tankettes are named in the rules but not printed on the map. Are their Tankettes in this scenario or is this just a misprint?

Q. Cavalry are ordered just like infantry. Does this mean that the special infantry rules for Japanese infantry also apply directly for the Japanese Cavalry such as Yamato Damashi Concept, Seishin Kyoiku Doctrine and Banzai War Cry?

[Updated on: Wed, 11 January 2017 19:07]

      
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